Santonio Holmes: MERGED

[Integrity28]

oy.. you do understand what a bunch of three and outs do to a defense? yes??

Did you here cromartie's comments today, about only 1 side of the ball putting in effort.. there's obviously been a growing divide

Yes, of course. Been saying it since year 1 of Schotty. My initial point re-explained to EY above.

[Vudu]

New York Jets wide receiver Santonio Holmes "quit" on the team during the final two minutes of a season-ending loss to the Miami Dolphins on Sunday, a team source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

"There were guys in the huddle not happy with Santonio's demeanor throughout the game and in the two-minute drill," said Jets running backLaDainian Tomlinson. "And they said something to him about it."

The Jets captain was yanked as his team tried to rally in the fourth quarter Sunday and avoid elimination from the playoff race. To compound the soap opera, coach Rex Ryan said he thought Holmes took himself out.

The Jets lost 19-17 to the Miami Dolphins. Following the spat with teammates, Holmes was replaced byPatrick Turner.

"It was a coach's call," Holmes said. "Patrick came in and tapped me on the shoulder and told me to come out."

The decision may have come from an assistant coach aware that Holmes had argued with teammates. Turner said he was sent in by wide receivers coach Henry Ellard.

"I looked out there and I was wondering why he wasn't out there myself," Ryan said. "No, I didn't bench Santonio. ... Somebody told me he was on the bench."

Ryan said he didn't want to comment further until he knows the particulars.

The team source told Schefter that Jets offensive tackle Wayne Hunter got into a shouting match with Holmes after the wide receiver said something the players resented in the huddle.

"It was definitely boiling" in the huddle, Tomlinson said. "Guys had had enough of it at that point."

According to Tomlinson, players said to Holmes, "C'mon, we still have a chance."

"It's tough for guys to follow a captain who behaves in that manner," Tomlinson said. "When you are a captain, guys are looking for you to lead by example, and you have to play your tail off to the last play."

Said Holmes of the commotion in the huddle: "I can't explain what that was about. Emotions were running high on the field between two guys on the same team."

Tomlinson criticized Holmes for his "demeanor, body language -- not really into the game, feeling like it's over, feeling sorry for himself. We were still in the game."

Holmes has developed a reputation in the locker room for not working hard during the week, the team source told Schefter.

Holmes, who was held without a catch for the first time in his 88-game career and was only targeted once, was asked if he thought he deserved to be removed from the game.

"I don't think I did. If it was my lack of jogging back to the huddle ... there were penalties and referees taking their time, so I shouldn't have to rush myself," he said.

But Turner said that "may have had something to do with the way he handled it."

Turner caught a 10-yard touchdown pass, but Miami then ran out the clock, ending New York's season.

The meltdown occurred in what was probably the final game of Tomlinson's Jets career, and possibly the end of his long NFL career as well.

"The worst thing that can happen (to a player) is when your teammates start to question your passion in the middle of a game," he said. "That's the worst thing. In that huddle, what you saw, guys looked in (Holmes') eyes and didn't see that fire in his eyes. Guys were turned off about that. We're all grown men. We don't have to like each other, but we must respect every man in that locker room in order to be successful. When that starts to slack a little bit, and continues to boil, that's what you get."

It's not the first time Holmes, who signed a five-year deal worth $45 million with the Jets last offseason, has been the focus of controversy this season. He twice called out the offensive line for not giving quarterback Mark Sanchez enough time to throw. At the time, right guard Brandon Moore said Holmes' comments "can have a fracturing effect" in the locker room. Moore also was disappointed Holmes made his negative opinions public since "that's not something a captain does."

The Jets failed to fulfill Ryan's pledge to win a Super Bowl title, with Sunday's loss eliminating them from the chase for an AFC wild-card berth.

The Jets (8-8) came into the game needing a win, along with losses by three other teams, to reach the playoffs. Instead, they finished the season with three consecutive defeats, a big step backward for a team that reached the AFC Championship Game each of the past two years.

When asked if the Jets gave sufficient effort, cornerback Antonio Cromartie said: "Uh, maybe on one side of the ball."

[ZachEY]

Yeah, totally agree with the offense dictating the game. I think we're looking at it the same way.

Only real reason I brought it up is because the teams identity h as changed since Ryan's first year. He needs to get back to coaching, and stop with all the spotlight nonsense. He always talks about being himself... He has become a caricature of himself and a joke. Just tired of the cameos, interviews and cutesy bullsh*t. I want the football coach version of Rex back. Less punch lines, more solutions to the problems. We've seen zero evolution of this team this season. Not one problem from early on was worked out, in fact most got worse.

I agree we're on just about the same page. I wish Rex would shut up from time to time, but the truth is, looking at the talent on the defensive side of the ball, I don't really expect much more. We have one guy who can get after the QB, and he's not an every down player, we have aging and slow linebackers, and we probably have the worst safeties in the league.

Rex is a good coach, but my feeling has always been that all these guys are fairly close to equal as it is and the difference in games really comes down to talent and match-ups. I think on defense we've done a pretty good job considering that talent.

If you agree with that, then in reality the problem is Tannenbaum, and how he's built this team, including not drafting a safety since 2006 and overpaying for free agents which have helped improve the team, but not enough to win a championship and now we're feeling the backlash.

[CTM]

Yeah, totally agree with the offense dictating the game. I think we're looking at it the same way.

Only real reason I brought it up is because the teams identity h as changed since Ryan's first year. He needs to get back to coaching, and stop with all the spotlight nonsense. He always talks about being himself... He has become a caricature of himself and a joke. Just tired of the cameos, interviews and cutesy bullsh*t. I want the football coach version of Rex back. Less punch lines, more solutions to the problems. We've seen zero evolution of this team this season. Not one problem from early on was worked out, in fact most got worse.

Meh, the defense is slow at LB'er and the league has adjusted to ryan's blitzes, when we do blitz, we very rarely get free rushers like we did in 2009.. this is still a top 5 defense and better if we could actually run the ball /conplete passes

[Integrity28]

Rex gushes about Holmes non-stop ... Pats himself on the back for bringing him to Jets ... Talks about how players won't play for his team, if they don't play like a Jet.

Wonder what the **** that term means right now? Pretty much nothing, IMO.

[Integrity28]

I agree we're on just about the same page. I wish Rex would shut up from time to time, but the truth is, looking at the talent on the defensive side of the ball, I don't really expect much more. We have one guy who can get after the QB, and he's not an every down player, we have aging and slow linebackers, and we probably have the worst safeties in the league.

Rex is a good coach, but my feeling has always been that all these guys are fairly close to equal as it is and the difference in games really comes down to talent and match-ups. I think on defense we've done a pretty good job considering that talent.

If you agree with that, then in reality the problem is Tannenbaum, and how he's built this team, including not drafting a safety since 2006 and overpaying for free agents which have helped improve the team, but not enough to win a championship and now we're feeling the backlash.

Agreed. There are positions that have been ignored, as well as leadership. This team jettisoned a bunch of veteran leaders, which DOES make a difference, despite the fact that it shouldn't.

Meh, the defense is slow at LB'er and the league has adjusted to ryan's blitzes, when we do blitz, we very rarely get free rushers like we did in 2009.. this is still a top 5 defense and better if we could actually run the ball /conplete passes

Hey, but at least we got the Terminator.... And the best everything in the league according to Rex.

[Darth Vader]

Screw the rankings.

How many games did we blow because he defense couldnt close?

defense couldn't close?

sanchez's three INTs say hi.

[Matt39]

Zero chance Holmes is back. What a disaster...the entire team hates him.

[ThisYearsModel]

Santonio Holmes=Richard Cranium.

[SMC]

Certain people shouldnt be put into a leaderrship position Holmes was one of them.

[SenorGato]

Dolphins love our mediocre coordinators.

Edit: Wrong thread.

[Maxman]

Zero chance Holmes is back. What a disaster...the entire team hates him.

I am not sure about zero percent. His contract makes it impossible to move him. As much as this season was a train wreck for him I could see a new coordinator giving him a fresh start (in a non-leadership roll).

[Sperm Edwards]

I am not sure about zero percent. His contract makes it impossible to move him. As much as this season was a train wreck for him I could see a new coordinator giving him a fresh start (in a non-leadership roll).

Agree. He'll make some public apology that he doesn't really mean and on the surface all is forgiven.

[Maxman]

Agree. He'll make some public apology that he doesn't really mean and on the surface all is forgiven.

If Schotty was coming back then Holmes probably has to go. The ironic part is I think Schotty will go and let's say he is to blame for like 4 of the Jets actual problems. Once he is gone he is going to get blamed for 12 of the Jets actual problems. Pettine and Westhoff will pile on saying how Schotty made it tough to do their jobs.

[Sperm Edwards]

If Schotty was coming back then Holmes probably has to go. The ironic part is I think Schotty will go and let's say he is to blame for like 4 of the Jets actual problems. Once he is gone he is going to get blamed for 12 of the Jets actual problems. Pettine and Westhoff will pile on saying how Schotty made it tough to do their jobs.

Kind of like Smizzy a couple years back and Thor next year.

[Matt39]

I am not sure about zero percent. His contract makes it impossible to move him. As much as this season was a train wreck for him I could see a new coordinator giving him a fresh start (in a non-leadership roll).

I dont know....from what's being reported today was as bad as it gets. You cant let him back in the locker room...or you just get rid of the entire offense besides Holmes, which actually might work too.

[jason423]

Certain people shouldnt be put into a leaderrship position Holmes was one of them.

Rex is just out of touch. I dont know how anyone makes a WR captain expect in the rarest of circumstances. They are usually the most selfish and least team oriented guys in the NFL. It is a position you tolerate not one that you highlight.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Sounds like we paid the wrong guy!

After such a public display the JETS will try anything they can to get rid of him.

[T0mShane]

Rex is just out of touch. I dont know how anyone makes a WR captain expect in the rarest of circumstances. They are usually the most selfish and least team oriented guys in the NFL. It is a position you tolerate not one that you highlight.

On the bright side, maybe this incident knocks some sense into Rex and he starts to take the personnel management/discipline part of his job more seriously. Maybe he'll see the downside to placating some of these anti-establishment "competitors" that he likes to think will autonaticaally buy into his shtick.

[SoFlaJets]

Not Exactly Contrite …

by Bassett on September 7th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

It doesn’t matter what anybody feels about me or what anybody says about me. First and foremost, I’m a football player. That’s what everybody wants on their team. That’s what everybody hopes to get out of every player. I’m a true football player.

“What happens off the field, happens off the field. It doesn’t dictate my character. It probably dictates the judgment, but who are they to judge me? I’m not concerned about anybody who passes some type of judgment on me. Everybody does things behind closed doors all day long. Judge yourself.”

–

Santonio Holmes

to

ESPN New York

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Rex is just out of touch. I dont know how anyone makes a WR captain expect in the rarest of circumstances. They are usually the most selfish and least team oriented guys in the NFL. It is a position you tolerate not one that you highlight.

I think it's also possible that Rex put Santonio as a captain to try to make him feel the obligation to set a good example for the team. Obviously, not a good decision either way, but I find it hard to believe between Santonio's history and just being around the guy for a season that he'd think he was a model pick for captain.

[SoFlaJets]

On the bright side, maybe this incident knocks some sense into Rex and he starts to take the personnel management/discipline part of his job more seriously. Maybe he'll see the downside to placating some of these anti-establishment "competitors" that he likes to think will autonaticaally buy into his shtick.

I'm not so sure that would be a good thing TS-who is the one offensive player that Tannenbaum asked Rex about? Holmes. And Rex told Tanny to "go get him". Also, we all know the reason that Tannenbaum wasted the Jets short off season, what the main priority was: signing Asomugha-who do you think probably wanted that to get done more than anything else? Same answer...

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I think it's also possible that Rex put Santonio as a captain to try to make him feel the obligation to set a good example for the team. Obviously, not a good decision either way, but I find it hard to believe between Santonio's history and just being around the guy for a season that he'd think he was a model pick for captain.

Good point. Maybe rex saw his falling out with Pitt and thought this was a way to motivate to be more of a team player and like you said, set a good example for the team. Remember on Hard Knocks when Rex was trying to get some enthusiasm and fire out of Gholston, what did he do? He told Turner to basically start a fight. Rex will try anything to get his team, and teammates to go farther and push themselves. Sadly, sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

[Ken Schroy]

NY Jets lose to Miami Dolphins, Santonio Holmes benched by Brian Schottenheimer on final drive after verbally fighting with teammates

Dolphins 19, Jets 17

BY Manish Mehta

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

MIAMI — As their season unraveled one turnover and penalty at a time, the Jets reached a breaking point in their offensive huddle with a few minutes remaining in an ugly 19-17 loss to the Dolphins on Sunday that kept them out of the playoffs for the first time in three years.

JETS KEEP 'EM OR DUMP 'EM

Santonio Holmes, one of Rex Ryan’s captains, jawed at teammates after becoming an afterthought on Sunday. It was the second time Sunday that Holmes had gotten into a verbal altercation with Jets players. Before long, offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer pulled Holmes from the game, unbeknownst to Ryan.

“It started off between Holmes and another guy,” left guard Matt Slauson explained. “Then everybody came at each other. It was bad. It was breaking down. That’s how it goes when you’re not doing well and you’re in a must-win. Tempers get flared.”

According to several players, Schottenheimer, who may have coached his final game as Jets offensive coordinator, decided to take Holmes out during the final drive of the game.

Holmes, held without a catch for the first time in his career, had a heated discussion with teammates earlier in the second half, two players told the Daily News. They also felt that Holmes “quit” on the team based on his body language. When Holmes’ replacement, Patrick Turner, scored a 10-yard touchdown with 1:24 to go, Holmes sat alone on the bench, motionless.

“I looked out there and was wondering why he wasn’t out there,” Ryan said of Holmes. “I did not bench Santonio.”

But Schottenheimer did.

After the game, Holmes stood in a hallway waiting to walk into a press conference room when Schottenheimer, wearing jeans and a dress shirt, emerged from the coaches’ changing room with a rolling suitcase. The offensive coordinator walked toward Holmes, who looked away. The two men never said a word to each other. Asked whether he believes the embattled Schottenheimer should return as the team’s play-caller in 2012, Holmes offered this cryptic response: “Right now, let’s hope for the best.”

It was the second consecutive year that the season ended with a perceived grudge between the wide receiver and coordinator. After last year’s loss to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game, Holmes was clearly upset at Schottenheimer for the receiver not being more involved in the game.

It was the final indignity for a team that entered the season with Super Bowl expectations.

“We had higher expectations than anyone in the NFL,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “Or at least anyone that was willing to talk about it.”

The Jets (8-8) entered the day needing to beat the Dolphins and hope that the Titans, Bengals and either the Raiders or Broncos would lose. Minutes after the Jets lost, Tennessee won, 23-22, in Houston. The game was decided when Houston, down by one with 14 seconds left, went for two and didn’t get it.

Later in the day, the Bengals, Broncos and Raiders all lost, but it didn’t matter, as the loss in Miami kept the Jets out of the postseason for the first time under Ryan.

“We have to look at every aspect of our team,” Ryan said. “We don’t want to be average... We all know what we’re chasing. Clearly, we’re not there yet. We’ve got to come up with answers.”

Ryan reiterated that he believes that Sanchez, who went 21-for-32 for 207 yards, two TDs and three interceptions, is “the long-term solution” at quarterback. The coach also laughed off an ESPN report earlier in the day that he would be making several changes to his offensive coaching staff.

“Somebody’s throwing darts,” Ryan said about the report. “There’s only three people that make decisions for this organization. That person who reported it is guessing.”

The Jets held a 10-6 halftime lead before the Dolphins stole the momentum with a franchise-record 21-play, 94-yard scoring drive that gave them a 13-10 lead early in the fourth quarter that they wouldn’t relinquish. Miami converted six third downs on the 12-minute, 29-second march capped off by Matt Moore’s 1-yard touchdown to Charles Clay.

“It was very rough,” cornerback Darrelle Revis said of the drive. “That kind of cost us our season... We’ve got to be consistent through the whole game. The biggest word you can use is ‘finish.’ Every down. Every minute. Every quarter. Every second of the game. This whole season we have failed to do that. There’s been drives just like this one that have showed up in the course of the season that have crushed us.”

After falling behind 16-10, the Jets were driving to take the lead when Sanchez was picked off on third down from the Miami 10-yard line. The Dolphins tacked on another field goal before the Jets’ lack of team unity surfaced in the huddle for a second time with Holmes.

“It’s been disturbing for a while,” right guard Brandon Moore said about the lack of unity this season. Moore, of course, called out Holmes earlier in the season after the mercurial wideout made a couple of critical comments about the offensive line.

“The one thing you can’t do is you can’t point the finger,” Revis said. “You’ve got to respect your teammates. This is the team that Mike Tannenbaum put together... The best way to handle situations is pick your teammates up and not just point the finger at one person. I know it’s been rough and guys have been calling people out (this season). You’ve just got to move the negative out and be positive the best way you can.”

Holmes, who signed a $45 million contract in the offseason, was targeted just once in the game. His frustration was palpable. Asked how he could be held without a catch, Holmes simply said, “It’s Week 17. It shouldn’t happen.”

Asked whether he wanted to return to the Jets next season, Holmes ended his press conference by saying, “Thank you, guys,” and walked off the podium.

It was the final image in a season sprinkled with locker room discord.

Ryan guaranteed a Super Bowl before the Jets had taken a single snap this year, but his team didn’t even finish with a winning record.

“I’m always going to chase a Super Bowl,” Ryan said. “I know I get criticized for it beyond belief. But if you don’t, then you’re probably a loser. I’m not a loser.

“If people don’t have the guts or courage to put it out there, then so be it,” he added. “That’s on them. I will always chase the Super Bowl. I believe we’ll win the Super Bowl and I’ll believe it for the next 15 years... I’ll find a way to make this team better.”

In other words, changes are on the horizon.

[HessStation]

Certain people shouldnt be put into a leaderrship position Holmes was one of them.

Problem is neither should Sanchez. Where the **** was he during the entire mess going on in the huddle? The kid has average raw skills and ZERO leadership quality. See him lounging on the bench smiling during that 4th qt Dolphin drive. Sanchez is a good kid, you can see that, but he's your typical west coast laid back cali kid. That does not and will not win in NY unless he is surrounded by the right group of players. This team is basically void of those type of players...or there just isn't enough of them.

[Integrity28]

defense couldn't close?

sanchez's three INTs say hi.

Haha... I wasn't talking about this week's game. I was talking about our defense over the course of the season, coming onto the field at the end of the game when we just gained the lead and allowing the opponent to drive down the field and steal the win right back from us.

For example: Tim Tebow says hi.

[glenn212]

Look..You are what you are..If your a cheap bast**d when your 20 you'll still be a cheap bast**d when your 30 and 40 yrs old...Very few people change who they are when they reach their in there 20's...Santonio was malcontent and a....punk when he got here and guess what..STILL IS..People rarely change and Rex's ploy of making him a captain is high school stuff..not even, most high school coaches wouldn't do it...If I'm Mangold, Revis, Harris, Pace, Pioha..all Mangini guys.. I would of been pissed about the whole captain thing..even with Sanchez..you can't make someone a leader..either you are or your not...Don't freakin tell me Character doesn't count..it does...and yesterday it was on display..Good for Brandon Moore calling his punk a$$ out..Mangold and Brick who both are probably too milk toast should of jacked his behind up and tossed him out of the huddle

[LottsMissingFingerTip]

This is the kind of situation I find myself in with the Mrs all the time.

My argument is justifiable and I am perfectly right in feeling the way I do...its just the way I go about it and what I say and do that seems to take the problem in a whole nother direction.

Let's not get diverted from the real issue...

Mark Sanchez is not fit to be a consistently good QB in the NFL, or at least he has not showed he could this season.

He was so wildly bad on some throws that I am no longer suprised.

How many times of watching footbal have you seen a QB throw TWO int's to D-lineman in one game?

I have to say it is probably a safe bet to say that Sanchez has more batted down balls then any QB in 3 years...I mean, its amazing how many.

With that said, yes Holmes is a S#*THEAD and he may do it for the wrong reasons, but all this "he's a quitter" "unprofessional" bulls#*t is laughable when I think most anyone would be frustrated being on the receiving end for a year.

So let's add pissed off WR's to the list of things you have to deal will deal with when you have a sub par QB.

[SouthernJet]

Being in a popularity contest is fine when you're winning. but when you collapse like the Jets did this season I dont think it will matter how much they like him. I would rather Rex get in there face and become a disciplinarian with the way they've been playing.

It's like being a boss. you cant be buddy buddy with all your subordinates. because sometimes you have to lay down the hammer.

BINGO..

Hey BP, how the hell are u doin?

[Matt39]

Is there any doubt that Holmes was the guy Sanchez was yelling at during the Buffalo game?

[Vicious89x]

Personally I get Rex's move to try and get Santonio to become more responsible. It's showing respect and trying to get him to act like a man. Issue is Holmes is a little boy with an elephant dong.

[Matt39]

Personally I get Rex's move to try and get Santonio to become more responsible. It's showing respect and trying to get him to act like a man. Issue is Holmes is a little boy with an elephant dong.

These types of personalities will never change. He's a scumbag and will always be one.

[Vicious89x]

These types of personalities will never change. He's a scumbag and will always be one.

I guess we will see where Santonio ends up. If he's still a Jet I would have an issue with Rex if he doesn't treat him like the dog he is. I understand people getting pissed at Rex but truthfully Santonio was given an opportunity to redeem himself and instead just verified what everyone thought of him.

I mostly agree guys like this don't change, but guys like this also almost never work in the NFL. They bounce from team to team. sh*t, even the mighty hoodie in NE eventually lost control of Moss. Whether you put your foot down or you lay back, they're always gonna be a problem.

[kelticwizard]

Hope everyone who said to keep Holmes and eject Braylon is happy.

And if Braylon was still on the Jets, he would not have been where he was when he got injured, so most likely he would have had a full season.

[greeniemeanie]

Holmes quit on the team. It does not matter why. He quit. That is all that matters.

Are there issues with the offense? Heck yeah! But Holmes quit and therefore any arguments/reasons are rendered moot. He gets paid a lot of money to play a child's game. At the NFL level, you simply don't quit. It doesn't take a really special kind of person to pack it in when things don't go their way. Heck, my 4 year old and two year old children have more heart than this guy.