Hackenberg is in the HOUSE!!!

[thadude]

6 hours ago, C Mart said:

I swear Hackenberg must have stolen the milk money from a lot of JN posters..The hate for the guy is alarming.  There must be more to the hate? Is it a PSU/Sandusky residual thing?

No he just sucks and cost us a 2nd

 

Could be worse tho, we coulda drafted Lynch in round 1 who is equally terrible

[Harlemnite1]

On 1/16/2017 at 4:42 PM, Jet Nut said:

Because he was 4th string and didn't get practice time.  Comedy?  Because some of you just don't get what happened? 

We get Romo and he breaks down, the fans who wouldnt develop a Hackenberg will be the first ones screaming 

Fourth string? We were down to 1 QB and he still couldn't see the field. If he is the future you think he would play at some point. But he didn't because he was that bad. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 hours ago, C Mart said:

I swear Hackenberg must have stolen the milk money from a lot of JN posters..The hate for the guy is alarming.  There must be more to the hate? Is it a PSU/Sandusky residual thing?

I think it's mostly about the red shirt year. They don't believe in the concept so they just assume the player will be awful. 

[Lray]

If you fear success go with Petty/Hack next year
 
Jets will be lucky to go 3-13
 

I don't think anybody is expecting any better no matter what side of the Hackenberg fence you're on


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[Dunnie]

I think it's mostly about the red shirt year. They don't believe in the concept so they just assume the player will be awful. 

I have never seen a redshirt year in the Pros before except when the Starter is so good he keeps the rookie from playing ... but a planned red shirt year ? Never seen it.

[Lray]

I have never seen a redshirt year in the Pros before except when the Starter is so good he keeps the rookie from playing ... but a planned red shirt year ? Never seen it.

Isn't that what a redshirt year is?


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[thadude]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

 

I have never seen a redshirt year in the Pros before except when the Starter is so good he keeps the rookie from playing ... but a planned red shirt year ? Never seen it.

 

It wasn't planned.  

[UntouchableCrew]

16 hours ago, PCP63 said:

What a joke of a SOJF. Give Hack at least a single NFL snap before labelling him useless. I understand we don't have forever. But you can't judge a kid before he even plays. Ridiculous.

What are you talking about? My post was pointing out that if we take a QB  at #6 overall clearly the coaching staff has determined Hackenberg has no future with the team. My personal conviction that he will never play QB in the NFL has nothing to do with it.

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Fourth string? We were down to 1 QB and he still couldn't see the field. If he is the future you think he would play at some point. But he didn't because he was that bad. 

He hadn't practiced all year.  Not once.  Do you not understand ? 

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

What are you talking about? My post was pointing out that if we take a QB  at #6 overall clearly the coaching staff has determined Hackenberg has no future with the team. My personal conviction that he will never play QB in the NFL has nothing to do with it.

OR its the mantra that nearly EVERY Jet fan has been posting that you take a QB every year until you get it right, regardless of who you have on the roster.

Look, Hack took a year off. ONE season. Not 3 years, not 5 years. ONE season. He WILL get an opportunity to play this offseason into training camp and pre-season. He will. And we will see what he can do, how he has improved and if he can develop into a legit NFL QB. 

BUT- It's obvious the Jets do not know enough yet to guarantee he has a long future with the organization. How could you possibly know with a 'project' that has only had one season in the NFL- on the sidelines no less. SO- if they believe there is a great prospect at QB at #6 overall, possibly the BPA, why wouldn't they take him? It doesn;t nec. say anything about Hack. It just says Hack has yet to take hold of the starting QB gig and the Jets really like said QB prospect.

And yes, that's JMHO.

And I also believe it is HIGHLY unlikely they take a QB at #6.   

[Beerfish]

11 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think it's mostly about the red shirt year. They don't believe in the concept so they just assume the player will be awful. 

No, he looked awful in college and in preseason, a red shirt year would be perfectly acceptable to most people if it actually included any kind of plan at all to get the guy better, which is not what happened with the Jets.

He was way over drafted for a guy that needs so much work, the Jets promptly stuck him in the corner and ignored him for a year.

For the 100th time 'red shirting' while doing nothing of note to help the guy get better is simply avoiding the problem for a year.

Next year going into off seasons and camp Hack will be no tangible amount further on that he was last year.

[ZachEY]

22 hours ago, C Mart said:

So now people are gutless just because they think rationally...good grief.

So let's just say every player, coach, scout is going to suck and call it a day...I mean based on numbers / history we'll be right. woo hoo

So, if a player sucks in college, sucks in training camp, sucks in preseason, sucks in practice, and has teammates and coaches coming out and saying he sucks, it's irrational to believe that player sucks.

[JoJoTownsell1]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No, he looked awful in college and in preseason, a red shirt year would be perfectly acceptable to most people if it actually included any kind of plan at all to get the guy better, which is not what happened with the Jets.

He was way over drafted for a guy that needs so much work, the Jets promptly stuck him in the corner and ignored him for a year.

For the 100th time 'red shirting' while doing nothing of note to help the guy get better is simply avoiding the problem for a year.

Next year going into off seasons and camp Hack will be no tangible amount further on that he was last year.

Petty went through the same drill in 2015 and he seemed much improved this year. Can we at least give Hack a shot. If he comes out in camp/pre-season and is a disaster I am fine with conceding that it was a wasted pick. I certainly wouldn't bet on Hack at this point, but I am also not ready to give up on him. 

We will learn how much the front office thinks of him after the draft/free agency. 

[19andOhWait]

https://vine.co/v/Ou0Mb7rDxbZ

 

same

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, 19andOhWait said:

https://vine.co/v/Ou0Mb7rDxbZ

 

same

I hope that part of the redshirt year was teaching him how to hold a telephone.

[Joejet]

The fact is Hack didn't choose to be picked by the Jets in round 2, he didn't choose to be redshirted, he didn't choose to have a QB coach that knew nothing about coaching qb's, he didn't choose to have an outgoing OC decide to not work on his fundamentals.  The only thing that we can hope for is that he hires someone in the offseason to help advance his passing skills and that the team hires an offensive coordinator and QB coach that have actually worked with a young QB before.

 He may suck, he may develop, but I think that the TEAM needs to put things in place to help him succeed.  They have already pissed away one year of his career.

Whether they draft a QB, sign a veteran, or both, they need to pull their head out of their ass and give whoever they choose at the most important position a fair chance to succeed.

Hate the system but not the kid.  He is doing exactly what is asked of him.

[Beerfish]

42 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Petty went through the same drill in 2015 and he seemed much improved this year. Can we at least give Hack a shot. If he comes out in camp/pre-season and is a disaster I am fine with conceding that it was a wasted pick. I certainly wouldn't bet on Hack at this point, but I am also not ready to give up on him. 

We will learn how much the front office thinks of him after the draft/free agency. 

Petty was the #2 guy for part of the year while genos face got fixed.  At worst he was the #3 guy, petty played more and produced better results in ex season.  Petty needed experience but his throwing mechanics were fine.

[SMC]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

So, if a player sucks in college, sucks in training camp, sucks in preseason, sucks in practice, and has teammates and coaches coming out and saying he sucks, it's irrational to believe that player sucks.

[19andOhWait]

long read from this time last year on Hack here: http://thedraftster.com/the-hackenberg-study/

the 'Bad' below is really significant to me. accuracy, mechanics, reads, feeling pressure: THESE ARE THE THINGS NFL QUARTERBACKS SHOULD EXCEL AT not be below average at and perhaps explains why he saw exactly 0 snaps this year. it's extremely possible he peaked as a Freshman at penn state and we completely wasted a 2nd round pick. sigh 

Good:

• Arm talent
• From under center, his drop back was smooth and play action fakes are pretty
• Timing and rhythm passer
• Stands tall in the pocket when throwing under pressure and delivers the ball
• Gives guys a shot – WRs in the NFL aren’t going to get separation the same way that they are at other levels so the QB has to be willing throw into coverage. He’s not afraid and has shown he can do it with accuracy

Bad:

• Accuracy issues deriving from reestablishing based when moved – needs to hitch forward to right the ship
• Falls away from throws in GUN with 1 step drop – keeps them almost square to LOS or opens up and ball tends to come out inaccurate
• Mechanics have deteriorated in spread offense – see Bryce Petty/Baylor QB concerns
• Pre snap/post snap reads or read progression design? – seemed like there were too many plays were decided pre snap to go deep rather than hitting a wide open man underneath. Most evident with out-corner and vert-hitch combos
  • Would need to pick his brain to find out if he really sees the field real time and trusts his eyes
• Deep ball consistency – Under throws when DB is beat and over throws when they’re running together too often
• GHOSTS! Needs to stay calm under pressure – runs into sacks which compounds on already troublesome protection
• Refuses to throw the ball away – tries to keep play alive, run or takes that sack

[Dunnie]

Isn't that what a redshirt year is?


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yes ... in college

[Snell41]

Ok people seriously. It's this simple, this debate is absurd. Pay attention!

A project QB, we can all agree on this much right? Right? Is going to go through 3 OC's in his first 3 years. 3 OC's, 3 playbooks, 3 philosophies, 3 different opinions on what he can/should do to improve. You think he's mind****ed right now from PSU? That's nothing compared to what he's facing over his first 3 years.

You guys are all arguing whether he might or might not have made it in optimal conditions. It's a moot point, this kid is ****ed.

1-Chan Gailey's system

2-the poor shlep that takes the 1 year OC gig before Bowles gets fired

3-the OC the new coach in 2018 installs, battling against the likely draft/veteran the new coach prefers in the first place.

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[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Ok people seriously. It's this simple, this debate is absurd. Pay attention!

A project QB, we can all agree on this much right? Right? Is going to go through 3 OC's in his first 3 years. 3 OC's, 3 playbooks, 3 philosophies, 3 different opinions on what he can/should do to improve. You think he's mind****ed right now from PSU? That's nothing compared to what he's facing over his first 3 years.

You guys are all arguing whether he might or might not have made it in optimal conditions. It's a moot point, this kid is ****ed.

1-Chan Gailey's system

2-the poor shlep that takes the 1 year OC gig before Bowles gets fired

3-the OC the new coach in 2018 installs, battling against the likely draft/veteran the new coach prefers in the first place.

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This is some pretty aggressive excuse-making.

I'm pretty sure all 3 OCs (if that happens) will have a philosophy that includes "complete passes."  Lets see if Hackenberg can do that.  Early returns suggest no, he can't.

[rex-n-effect]

16 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Ok people seriously. It's this simple, this debate is absurd. Pay attention!

A project QB, we can all agree on this much right? Right? Is going to go through 3 OC's in his first 3 years. 3 OC's, 3 playbooks, 3 philosophies, 3 different opinions on what he can/should do to improve. You think he's mind****ed right now from PSU? That's nothing compared to what he's facing over his first 3 years.

You guys are all arguing whether he might or might not have made it in optimal conditions. It's a moot point, this kid is ****ed.

1-Chan Gailey's system

2-the poor shlep that takes the 1 year OC gig before Bowles gets fired

3-the OC the new coach in 2018 installs, battling against the likely draft/veteran the new coach prefers in the first place.

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Do different play books require throwing the ball differently?

[Snell41]

This is some pretty aggressive excuse-making.
I'm pretty sure all 3 OCs (if that happens) will have a philosophy that includes "complete passes."  Lets see if Hackenberg can do that.  Early returns suggest no, he can't.

You're totally misreading the point. This isn't excuses. He sucks right now. I agree. He needs optimal conditions to develop, if that's even possible. He's going to deal with the exact opposite of optimal conditions.


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[Snell41]

Do different play books require throwing the ball differently?

No, but considering that he needs to learn to throw the ball differently, he'll have a heck of a time figuring out when to work on that and the bevy of other flaws he needs to fix while learning 3 different playbooks.


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[Lray]

7 hours ago, Dunnie said:

 

yes ... in college

 

Don't be condescending just for the sake of it. It doesn't make you look clever.

[Dunnie]

Don't be condescending just for the sake of it. It doesn't make you look clever.

i was not trying to be condescending ... i really thought you were asking. sorry.

isn't a second round draft pick a high price to pay for a guy you have to sit in order to fix his game ? Mac must really think this kid has a shot at being the man.

this actually gives me hope. we haven't seen the kid play ... all we know is what we have been spoon fed by media. They could be making some of their conclusions up because they are frustrated at the lack of information they are being given.

[PCP63]

17 hours ago, 19andOhWait said:

long read from this time last year on Hack here: http://thedraftster.com/the-hackenberg-study/

the 'Bad' below is really significant to me. accuracy, mechanics, reads, feeling pressure: THESE ARE THE THINGS NFL QUARTERBACKS SHOULD EXCEL AT not be below average at and perhaps explains why he saw exactly 0 snaps this year. it's extremely possible he peaked as a Freshman at penn state and we completely wasted a 2nd round pick. sigh 

Good:

• Arm talent
• From under center, his drop back was smooth and play action fakes are pretty
• Timing and rhythm passer
• Stands tall in the pocket when throwing under pressure and delivers the ball
• Gives guys a shot – WRs in the NFL aren’t going to get separation the same way that they are at other levels so the QB has to be willing throw into coverage. He’s not afraid and has shown he can do it with accuracy

Bad:

• Accuracy issues deriving from reestablishing based when moved – needs to hitch forward to right the ship
• Falls away from throws in GUN with 1 step drop – keeps them almost square to LOS or opens up and ball tends to come out inaccurate
• Mechanics have deteriorated in spread offense – see Bryce Petty/Baylor QB concerns
• Pre snap/post snap reads or read progression design? – seemed like there were too many plays were decided pre snap to go deep rather than hitting a wide open man underneath. Most evident with out-corner and vert-hitch combos
  • Would need to pick his brain to find out if he really sees the field real time and trusts his eyes
• Deep ball consistency – Under throws when DB is beat and over throws when they’re running together too often
• GHOSTS! Needs to stay calm under pressure – runs into sacks which compounds on already troublesome protection
• Refuses to throw the ball away – tries to keep play alive, run or takes that sack

First 4 "Bad" traits were literally just Franklin being a dumbass and trying to turn a pro-style QB into Tim Tebow. Now, does that change the fact that his mechanics need to be improved? No, of course not. But they can be fixed. And when his footwork and his elbow's (very slightly) lack of zero position is fixed, you have a young, athletic QB who is incredibly smart and will win you games for years to come.

[Harlemnite1]

On 1/18/2017 at 7:27 PM, Jet Nut said:

He hadn't practiced all year.  Not once.  Do you not understand ? 

Extremely flawed logic. Must have never played sports in your life. If you have 1 healthy QB and still not playing and definately NOT PRACTICING you stink. Capiche? The only reason you would not practice if you were healthy is if you were banned because of PED's or some other violation.

[C Mart]

2 hours ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Extremely flawed logic. Must have never played sports in your life. If you have 1 healthy QB and still not playing and definately NOT PRACTICING you stink. Capiche? The only reason you would not practice if you were healthy is if you were banned because of PED's or some other violation.

Nevermind 

Edited January 21, 2017 by C Mart

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Extremely flawed logic. Must have never played sports in your life. If you have 1 healthy QB and still not playing and definately NOT PRACTICING you stink. Capiche? The only reason you would not practice if you were healthy is if you were banned because of PED's or some other violation.

No it's not.  You're making shlt up as you go along.  They were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Never thought Fitz would be back but played well enough to get a second season.  Gave them 4 QBs.  Hack was 20, there's no need to force him onto the field to satisfy fans who don't get it. There are a lot of reasons why players sit. Did Palmer suck when he didn't play in a Cincy? 

[thadude]

Hack was hot garbage in college.  Looked so bad in preseason and practices even our autopilot coaching staff felt the need to hide him.

 

 

Guys I don't know what you see in Hackenberg but here on planet earth he blows

[thadude]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No it's not.  You're making shlt up as you go along.  They were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Never thought Fitz would be back but played well enough to get a second season.  Gave them 4 QBs.  Hack was 20, there's no need to force him onto the field to satisfy fans who don't get it. There are a lot of reasons why players sit. Did Palmer suck when he didn't play in a Cincy? 

Palmer dressed for games as a rookie at least

 

And the NFL has changed a lot since then that was 12 years ago. No longer do rookie qb's never play most who are actually good play from day 1 or at least appear in games during their rookie season

 

Theres no more "let's bench Steve McNair for 5 year" plans anymore

[C Mart]

47 minutes ago, thadude said:

Palmer dressed for games as a rookie at least

 

And the NFL has changed a lot since then that was 12 years ago. No longer do rookie qb's never play most who are actually good play from day 1 or at least appear in games during their rookie season

 

Theres no more "let's bench Steve McNair for 5 year" plans anymore

And this thought could be why so many QBs bust..Some, most, aren't ready for the most demanding position on a NFL football field. 

1) NOBODY is saying sit him for 5 years. 2) McNair didn't sit for 5 years..McNair came in after a 4 year career as a 22 yr rookie

It's one season. One. 1. The Jets decided to sit a 21 year old who forgo his senior year after playing 3 years in college. 

Good gawd this is such a ridiculous topic being fueled by the media idiots, which many here trashing Jets/Hack, loathe.

 

[section314]

4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

And this thought could be why so many QBs bust..Some, most, aren't ready for the most demanding position on a NFL football field. 

1) NOBODY is saying sit him for 5 years. 2) McNair didn't sit for 5 years..McNair came in after a 4 year career as a 22 yr rookie

It's one season. One. 1. The Jets decided to sit a 21 year old who forgo his senior year after playing 3 years in college. 

Good gawd this is such a ridiculous topic being fueled by the media idiots, which many here trashing Jets/Hack, loathe.

 

The same people who said the Jets "ruined" Sanchez and Geno by playing them right away, are complaining now that they gave a kid one year to adjust to life in the NFL. I swear, Jet fans have been so beaten down by everything over the years that many are actually afraid of potential success. And that is far more troubling than bashing a 21 year old kid. If you are afraid of being great, you never will be.