Breaking Down the Jets 2017 Draft Class

[dbatesman]

43 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

This.

To me, this is what makes it so difficult to figure out who is accountable for certain decisions, and why looking at any of the decisions or moves that have been made in the last 3 years, in a vacuum, which is done all the time here, is essentially impossible.

For example, look at year 1 of this regime. They went out and signed a bunch of high ticket aging vets, which most people thought was pretty stupid, because when objectively looking at the roster, was stupid. One of those vets was Revis, another was Cro. What relationship does Maccagnan have with either of those two? Woody was on record before Maccagnan was even hired as saying he wished he had Revis, and Bowles had Cro in Az the prior year. 

We know Woody fired Idzik for doing nothing and having an awful team on the field, is it really unreasonable to think Woody told Maccagnan and Bowles to be competitive right away? Is it speculation, sure, but its at least educated speculation.

Publicly, Bowles was the one who wanted Fitzpatrick back, and was very adamant and open about it.

Lee, Safeties, etc. all smell like Bowles influence to me.

Bowles came out and said last year, we won't draft a first rounder who won't start. To me, that should be a GM's statement, not a HC statement.

I have zero allegiance to Maccagnan, and think he probably is in over his head. But I think if we sit back and bash Maccagnan, and ignore Bowles influence, and Woody influence, and fail to blame the power structure, we are missing the forrest, and looking at trees. I have said before, we all argue about Idzik, Maccagnan, Rex, Bowles, Fitzpatrick, Geno, etc., but the real problem is Woody, and short of lucking our asses off, we will never win big with Woody as the owner.

 

Yeah. He did it with Mangini (then suddenly undid it after the 4-12 season), then he did it with Rex (then sort-of undid it when he brought in Idzik). At some point, there has to be one guy in charge. Diffusing responsibility like this means the team never has a direction. Like, for example: are we going balls-out for a QB, even if that means bottoming out and playing to an empty stadium at some point? Or are we looking to build the best roster we can every season, and we'll plug in a QB when we get a chance? These are not rhetorical questions, but right now no one in the organization looks to be able to answer them. I bash Maccagnan because I think he's a dunce who's totally over his head, but I agree that he's just a symptom of the bigger problem, which is Woody. There's a reason that three or four GM candidates turn us down every single hiring cycle. I'm with Tom (and others) that the only hope for this franchise is for Woody to hire a team president/czar who has enough cred to tell Woody to **** off and let him do his job and have Woody actually listen to him. Problem is, I have no earthly idea who that person is.

[Il Mostro]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

That's fine but your statement seemed to suggest WR's and LB's are held to the same standard on 40 times.  They aren't, and shouldn't be. 

McGuire is a RB (and not a power back) not a LB.  So, Jet Engine's point about the incongruity of the assessment is valid. 

[TuscanyTile2]

My main issue w/ this year's draft is that we got no OL help for Hack.  His biggest issue in college supposedly was that his OL was horrific and it led to bad habits.  If he's shell shocked, why we would put him behind a line with so many question marks.

[C Mart]

38 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

My main issue w/ this year's draft is that we got no OL help for Hack.  His biggest issue in college supposedly was that his OL was horrific and it led to bad habits.  If he's shell shocked, why we would put him behind a line with so many question marks.

All experts said this was a bad yr for OL..Drafting OL later in the draft wasn't going to help them this yr..They seem to like Iljana, Beachum..Shell & Qvale have another yr of offseason work to improve

Still some unsigned FA there and they'll be cuts over the next few months...With CBA limitations tough to develop young OL 

[section314]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

All experts said this was a bad yr for OL..Drafting OL later in the draft wasn't going to help them this yr..They seem to like Iljana, Beachum..Shell & Qvale have another yr of offseason work to improve

Still some unsigned FA there and they'll be cuts over the next few months...With CBA limitations tough to develop young OL 

C is what scares me the most. Don't think Johnson is very good, and thought for sure we would draft one. Guess we didn't have any rated highly at all, since we didn't even try to sign one as an UDFA. Since we traded the Vikings the pick where we could have had Elflein, and they took him, my guess is we had him rated better as a guard, and wouldn't have taken him because of Winters and Carpenter. Maybe Harrison will be the guy?

[C Mart]

29 minutes ago, section314 said:

C is what scares me the most. Don't think Johnson is very good, and thought for sure we would draft one. Guess we didn't have any rated highly at all, since we didn't even try to sign one as an UDFA. Since we traded the Vikings the pick where we could have had Elflein, and they took him, my guess is we had him rated better as a guard, and wouldn't have taken him because of Winters and Carpenter. Maybe Harrison will be the guy?

Based on them putting a 2nd round tender on Johnson I think they like him. We need to remember he's not Mangold at this point..I thought he played well under the circumstances and I had been negative on him prior to last season..I also heard he stepped when SRich & Marshall got into it at halftime of the Pats game and tried to restore order. So he seems to have some leadership traits...But nothing wrong w/Harrison and Johnson competing for the starters job..Still time so maybe some other C shakes loose.

[varjet]

The names to watch going forward are Quincy Wilson, Pat Elflein, Chris Godwin and Kendell Beckwith.  Those are the players that seemed to be Draftnik No-Brainers that the Jets passed up.

If they end up better than Maye, Stewart and Hansen, that will be a bad reflection on the Jets.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

All experts said this was a bad yr for OL..Drafting OL later in the draft wasn't going to help them this yr..They seem to like Iljana, Beachum..Shell & Qvale have another yr of offseason work to improve

Still some unsigned FA there and they'll be cuts over the next few months...With CBA limitations tough to develop young OL 

Hang on, that just means there are fewer promising (and/or high end) OL prospects than other prospects. It doesn't therefore stand to reason that it was smart to stay away from all OL prospects in every round throughout the draft. 

It can be a comparatively bad/thin year for OL and there can also be OL prospects that we would have been wise to select. 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

C is what scares me the most. Don't think Johnson is very good, and thought for sure we would draft one. Guess we didn't have any rated highly at all, since we didn't even try to sign one as an UDFA. Since we traded the Vikings the pick where we could have had Elflein, and they took him, my guess is we had him rated better as a guard, and wouldn't have taken him because of Winters and Carpenter. Maybe Harrison will be the guy?

Personally, I thought Johnson played fairly well last year. In fact , I know for certain he outplayed Mangold who due to injuries/age  appeared to be a shell of his previous self.

[Integrity28]

15 hours ago, varjet said:

If you think about it, this draft was almost completely need.  They drafted players for positions where they wanted to replace who they had.  The expectation is that they all make the team.  They were not drafting players high to sit on the bench  

We have on OL which is paid for.  Center?  We need to draft one-there is Johnson for a 2nd round tender.

WR-Devin Smith is done, and my guess is that they would like to save Deckers cap space.   Worse comes to worse Decker can be put on IR and saved for Hack.

TE-Legget displaces someone.

CB-covered for 2018.

ILB-ditto

S-obvious full replacement.   

The first five rounds were about replacing roster and starters.   

The only postion on this roster that wasn't a need was Leo's - everything else is crap-average, so we had the luxury (LOL) of going BPA and having it be need based inherently.

[Maxman]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Cutting disgruntled veterans would seem to be a lot more coherent if you weren't the same guy who just signed and traded for those notoriously disgruntled veterans two years ago. It's like spending twenty grand on a crotch rocket and driving it straight to the garbage dump because it's dangerous to own a crotch rocket.

 

Who are these "talented kid" linebackers? The dude from Appalachia? Or the two dudes who run 4.8/40's? 

Darron Lee, Lourenzo Mauldin, Jordan Jenkins and the DII kid that Kevin Greene likes.

They had cap room. They spent it. But they spent it without crippling the team for the future. That is important. They were able to walk away from just about every contract. The only mistake they really made was with Fitz. The 10 win season caught them by surprise and they didn't have the balls to cut bait. Can't blame them but they should have handled the situation better. That said at least the mistake was contained and easy to move on from.

They took a shot. They were hot at the end of the first year of this regime. If the QB was actually legit they might have been able to repeat it. It didn't happen so now they are all in on the youth. But there are good kids here, that is the part that people don't seem to see.

 

[Maxman]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

My main issue w/ this year's draft is that we got no OL help for Hack.  His biggest issue in college supposedly was that his OL was horrific and it led to bad habits.  If he's shell shocked, why we would put him behind a line with so many question marks.

They feel that they addressed it last year in the draft (Shell) and through free agency (Beachum). That is two new starters that should both be upgrades over last year.

Wesley Johnson is the wildcard. They need him to get stronger and be a legit starting center.

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, dbatesman said:

It checks out. We've seen Woody do this repeatedly. We have never--even for one second--had a coherent power structure in this organization since he was owner. It stands to reason this group is no exception.

It doesn't check out. Blasting the power structure is fine. Blasting Woody is fine.

Suggesting the Bowles has more power within the organization right now, over Macc, is speculation without proof.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

It doesn't check out. Blasting the power structure is fine. Blasting Woody is fine.

Suggesting the Bowles has more power within the organization right now, over Macc, is speculation without proof.

Yeah I've seen Woody go both ways on that.

More recently it was the HC (Rex) having more power than the GM (Idzik). But before that it seemed the GM (Tannenbaum) had more power than the HC (Mangini). 

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, Maxman said:

It doesn't check out. Blasting the power structure is fine. Blasting Woody is fine.

Suggesting the Bowles has more power within the organization right now, over Macc, is speculation without proof.

There's no proof, but if Bowles were running the draft room, don't this draft make a lot more sense?

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

There's no proof, but if Bowles were running the draft room, don't this draft make a lot more sense?

I think so. But then again I'm not exactly sure what Maccagnan actually does either.

[56mehl56]

16 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

There's no proof, but if Bowles were running the draft room, don't this draft make a lot more sense?

If Bowles were running the draft room , I don't think we take two WR's a TE and a RB.

[Jetster]

I have no idea what Macc was thinking taking 2 stud college safeties. Oops, the Jets just gave up another long TD. They gave up more passing TDs of over 20 yards in the entire league! But I'm so pissed that we haven't drafted enough players at positions we need to compete in 2017. 2017 is the 1st time in years that we all know they have very little chance to compete with most of their opponents even if Hackenberg shows something. Let these youngsters develop & mesh together. 

Hell of a lot better watching young kids develop than watching high priced vets going through the motions or watching injured from the sidelines. Maybe, just maybe we can put an offensive system in that we stick with for more than 1 freaking year!

[Maxman]

58 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

There's no proof, but if Bowles were running the draft room, don't this draft make a lot more sense?

I get the logic, Bowles would want safeties. I am just saying there is no proof that Bowles is in better standing with Woody than Macc is.

The better case would be that Macc is a pussy and he gave in to Bowles lol.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I get the logic, Bowles would want safeties. I am just saying there is no proof that Bowles is in better standing with Woody than Macc is.

The better case would be that Macc is a pussy and he gave in to Bowles lol.

Possibly they just agreed that 2 S's were the way to go considering the talent available to them in the draft?  Those first few picks of the 2nd round saw a lot of guys go who I thought the Jets could take (e.g. Kevin King, Cam Robinson, Zay Jones, Forrest Lamp)

[JetBlue]

19 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Difficult to foresee Stewart or Hansen as anything more than niche 3rd, 4th receivers unless one or both of them exceeds every expectation. 

Why? Can they take the field first?  And whats wrong with 3rd or 4th receivers, especially in todays game of 3,4 and 5 wide sets? 

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I get the logic, Bowles would want safeties. I am just saying there is no proof that Bowles is in better standing with Woody than Macc is.

The better case would be that Macc is a pussy and he gave in to Bowles lol.

Sure, but isn't that ultimately just a different version of the same problem? Woody doesn't put one guy in charge, so it's easy for one guy to bigfoot the other.

[JetBlue]

15 hours ago, AFJF said:

A 4.53 is far from elite, as the elites run in the 4.3/4.4 range (and sometimes under) whereas a 4.53 isn't going to do much for the draft stock of a RB or WR, but is respectable enough that if the guy can play, he'll still get drafted.

Why is it weird that I described two guys who had the same 40 time by using different (yet still accurate) terms?

 

 

 

Hansen doesn't have elite speed but what makes him an effective deep threat is he can get separation because he has good acceleration, very good at high pointing the ball and have exceptional hands.  Sometimes the ability to accelerate quickly is more effective than just pure speed.   

[Maxman]

11 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Sure, but isn't that ultimately just a different version of the same problem? Woody doesn't put one guy in charge, so it's easy for one guy to bigfoot the other.

Ideally I would want the President to be a football operations guy. Nto day to day but big picture. Then depending on who is more experienced you can work out the structure of who reports to who with the gm and coach. Let the owner just be rich and count his money.

[LionelRichie]

19 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Difficult to see how the Jets franchise is going to be competitive anytime soon with an offense as depleted as this one is, making the two safeties--while they may be fine players--relatively worthless. The right move was to pad the nest for a future QB, but the offense is going to be in full rebuild at all the skill positions as soon as Decker and Forte leave, and unless two of these receivers emerge, Maccagnan is going to have to go buy one in free agency simply to give Darnold/Rosen/Allen a chance to not perish. And despite the copious resources burned on DBs since Mac and Bowles got here, they're going to have to go shopping for a CB1 next year, to boot. There's just no coherent plan with this team. 

you need a QB to win.   arguably the most talented from this bunch was Mahomes but unfortunately for Macc he used his "redshirt" last season.   there was no way he could affort to go QB at #6 and put Mahomes on the shelf for the season.    

[T0mShane]

37 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I have no idea what Macc was thinking taking 2 stud college safeties. Oops, the Jets just gave up another long TD. They gave up more passing TDs of over 20 yards in the entire league! But I'm so pissed that we haven't drafted enough players at positions we need to compete in 2017. 2017 is the 1st time in years that we all know they have very little chance to compete with most of their opponents even if Hackenberg shows something. Let these youngsters develop & mesh together. 

Hell of a lot better watching young kids develop than watching high priced vets going through the motions or watching injured from the sidelines. Maybe, just maybe we can put an offensive system in that we stick with for more than 1 freaking year!

Psyched that they're not going to give up long TDs anymore 

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Ideally I would want the President to be a football operations guy. Nto day to day but big picture. Then depending on who is more experienced you can work out the structure of who reports to who with the gm and coach. Let the owner just be rich and count his money.

Who's in charge of the Jets today? 

[T0mShane]

Can't believe more teams don't draft safeties in the first round. You'd think they'd want to put an end to long touchdown passes.

[Warfish]

18 hours ago, Maxman said:

The Jets drafted the guy they want to be their franchise QB last year. They held him off the field because 1) The season was a dumpster fire and 2) They knew they were changing offensive coordinators. They get killed for holding him out, but that seems like a very coherent plan to me. Add in they signed a veteran to mentor him.

Communication breakdowns were plaguing the defense all year last year. They gave up big play after big play. They changed several assistants and are basically rolling out a completely new secondary.

Pass rush was a huge issue, so they brought in an incredible OLB coach to work with several talented kids.

They cut every overpriced veteran that didn't produce last year. They will have a young team that is hungry and they can see who shines. Then next year they could have 80 million in cap space.

Seems like a pretty good plan to me.

Fine, I can believe this.

But if Hack isn't the best QB this preseason, and the uncontested starter come opening day, this argument becomes as stale and stinky as week old trout.

You don't get two Redshirt years in the NFL when you're on the worst and most QB-deficient team in the NFL.

[Beerfish]

46 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I have no idea what Macc was thinking taking 2 stud college safeties. Oops, the Jets just gave up another long TD. They gave up more passing TDs of over 20 yards in the entire league! But I'm so pissed that we haven't drafted enough players at positions we need to compete in 2017. 2017 is the 1st time in years that we all know they have very little chance to compete with most of their opponents even if Hackenberg shows something. Let these youngsters develop & mesh together. 

Hell of a lot better watching young kids develop than watching high priced vets going through the motions or watching injured from the sidelines. Maybe, just maybe we can put an offensive system in that we stick with for more than 1 freaking year!

They could have saved us a lot of time doing this a year ago I would say rather than waiting until we go pounded into dust.

I truly worry about these new young study safeties and fear they will be looking a teach other hands in the air just as much as the previous guys.  bowele was so horrific last year I don;t think things will get much better.  These guys will have system shackles put on them.

[#27TheDominator]

48 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Hansen doesn't have elite speed but what makes him an effective deep threat is he can get separation because he has good acceleration, very good at high pointing the ball and have exceptional hands.  Sometimes the ability to accelerate quickly is more effective than just pure speed.   

I watched his highlight film and didn't see much separation.  Through acceleration or otherwise.

[LionelRichie]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I watched his highlight film and didn't see much separation.  Through acceleration or otherwise.

The whole 'acceleration trumps speed' argument is a little nebulous.  

[Dunnie]

They could have saved us a lot of time doing this a year ago I would say rather than waiting until we go pounded into dust.
I truly worry about these new young study safeties and fear they will be looking a teach other hands in the air just as much as the previous guys.  bowele was so horrific last year I don;t think things will get much better.  These guys will have system shackles put on them.

this is raw clay for bowles to mold ... can't wait


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[Cyberjet]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 9:39 PM, HessStation said:

There's no coherent plan to help out next year's first round QB by taking a WR in the 3rd and 4th rounds and a receiving TE in the 6th? 

Agree. And even more so, you can't view the offense and defense in a vacuum. A good, better defense makes an offense better. Shorter field to work with, turnovers , keeping the team in the game. The converse is true, just makes common sense. To write off the choice of safeties as doing nothing for the offense (the assumption is they make the defense better) doesn't make sense. 

[HessStation]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Psyched that they're not going to give up long TDs anymore 

Let's be honest, every time it happens we know who's gonna be there to remind everyone