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Our great scout GM selected ArDarius Stewart over Kareem Hunt

Jetsbb

By Jetsbb
in NY Jets Forum

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, genot said:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yset_ie_syc_hp-s&p=adarius+stewart+highlights#id=2&vid=885f74c10d39a0467c579c586ac16dfb&action=clickJust watch the game film on Stewart. Then if you know what your watching, you'll understand how ridiculous the Stewart bashing is.

Ignore the fact that he's on the roster bubble, suspended, quite likely to be cut after week 2, and only has 6 NFL receptions, and check out this highlight reel from college.

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Scott Dierking

Scott Dierking

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

You can sometimes excuse these blatant mistakes when the position doesn't fit a need. The truth is they were looking at picking Alvin Kamara. They let the Saints trade up a couple of spots ahead of them to pick Kamara and then traded down and selected Stewart with Kareem Hunt still on the board. The guy has been as bad as Idzik. Even the one first round pick that wasn't a slam dunk he picks Daren Lee a below avg starter. With Woody in the UK and his brother a sycophant who wants to be buddies with the players kissing their ass any chance he gets we will be stuck with Mac and Bowles for a while.

JetNation had the opportunity to accept or decline your account. 

Bad decisions are a part of any business

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BCJet

BCJet

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, varjet said:

From 2015-2017, it is clear that the Jets s##ked at scouting.  They were outpicked, even in weak drafts, time and time again.  

In my view, this was a product of the scouts Mac was supposed to keep, Mac being over-rated at scouting on his own without the Texan scouts, and some undo influence from other people in the draft room.  

While drafting very poorly in 2015, Mac almost built a playoff team through trades and FAs.  He picked up some decent UDFA's along the way, and worked out a few good trades.  The Richardson and Bridgewater trades were very good for the Jets.  He obtained an apparent FQB, which many GMs in the NFL have not or never do (they get fired if they don't after a few years, which Mac was on his way to).   He overpaid apparently for Trumaine Johnson.

But being an NFL GM is a forward looking challenge.  What can Mac do for the Jets now?  Is he the GM that can use the cap space and draft picks to build a team around Darnold so the Jets can make the playoffs in 2019 and compete for the Super Bowl during Darnold's rookie contract?  If not, he needs to go.  The only way the answer to this question is yes is if there is basically a different team under Mac than what was there in 2015-2017, because the guys who wrote the reports and made the recommendations then were NOT GOOD.

This is an excellent post and Ill take it a step further.  

GM's have a ton of non-scouting/personnel responsibilities, they basically run a company with 200+ employees, have media responsibilities, and at the same time run the draft, run free agency - its a lot.  Im not sure if it was Mac, or a different GM, but apparently the top 2rounds are where the GM has the most responsibility and puts the most into the picks.  In the latter rounds, they have no choice but to rely on their scouts and personnel people.

Now I dont know how much this is true, but I personally hope it is, because we have a different group in there now then we did in previous drafts and it seems like Shephard and Nickerson are already better picks then the murders row of stewart, hansen, and donahue.

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rangerous

rangerous

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Yes, that is what has happened, but clearly he tried to draft an OL in the first, so he isn't opposed to it, just hasn't happened. Next year's draft is supposed to have a lot of OL depth, let's see how it plays out.

Remember, up until last year, Bowles wouldn't start a rookie over a vet, then it was Bowles won't start a rookie QB over a vet, and Mac only drafts defense in the 1st, and he won't go all in (or trade up) on a QB. 4 years of drafting with a really bad team with no depth (and some bad picks I will grant you) will show some skewed statistical patterns. Let's assume we drafted OL in the first 2 rounds the previous year, everyone will say the Mac doesn't value secondary in the draft.

Please don't confuse the discussion about whether or not Mac values OL and RB with the Mac is a good/bad drafter/GM. My comment was just that a guy who tried to trade up (spend extra draft capital) in the 1st to get an OL does not present himself as someone who doesn't value OL or won't spend draft capital on them.

He clearly goes by BPA (at least in the first few rounds) and on a team with very little young talent, you can draft a lot of players in rounds 1-3 and not hit all of the bases. Maybe that is how the draft fell out, maybe we just suck in scouting.

he also seems to reach a lot for those highly rated players who were devalued for some reason at the end of their college days.  there are reasons for these guys to be devalued and they aren't necessarily going to be diamonds in the rough.  we'll see.  imo not having a revolving front office door is a good thing and i hope mac doesn't keep repeating the same mistakes.

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LIJetsFan

LIJetsFan

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Once again I would like to state that despite Mac’s draft shortcomings, he didn’t draft Paxton Lynch.

Now he drafted Hackenturd 2nd round which is ridiculous but at least he didn’t draft that crybaby weirdo Paxton with a 1st round pick. I’ll take Darron Lee over that bum 10 times out of 10. 

Playing devil's advocate for a minute......if we take Lynch with our 1st that leaves us with our 2nd still intact with no D. Lee.  Hm, glass half full?      

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genot

genot

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I’d argue that selecting Maye over Dalvin Cook was just as egregious.   But Mac doesn’t value RBs that much.  Safeties, yes, RBs no. 

If we drafted Cook. Half the people would be rippin Mac for drafting a guy who had a history of nagging injuries at FSU. Ripping Mac after he tore his ACL last year with the Vikings, I mean.

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Ohio State NY Jets fan

Ohio State NY Jets fan

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Deion Jones was my sleeper pick that year, I really liked the kid thought he would have been great in the third or fourth round. I thought the falcons reached for him they got lucky and he panned out.

Maybe Mac was surprised Lee was still there, he was projected a little higher, and I would feel better if he really considered taking Jones in the second even after selecting Lee, he would have been a great fit for this team, then maybe Lee could emerged as more of an OLB but that was assuming is pass defense translated to the NFL...

Jones was projected in the 2nd-3rd so not that much of a reach, I think Jones is a first round pick in a redraft

 

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varjet

varjet

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I’d argue that selecting Maye over Dalvin Cook was just as egregious.   But Mac doesn’t value RBs that much.  Safeties, yes, RBs no. 

For a team based less than an hour from Manhattan and a GM whose wife is a anti-domestic violence crusader, the Jets were not taking Cook or Mixon. They just weren’t. 

And given the Milliner debacle, they were not taking Lattimore. 

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varjet

varjet

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Maybe Mac was surprised Lee was still there, he was projected a little higher, and I would feel better if he really considered taking Jones in the second even after selecting Lee, he would have been a great fit for this team, then maybe Lee could emerged as more of an OLB but that was assuming is pass defense translated to the NFL...

Jones was projected in the 2nd-3rd so not that much of a reach, I think Jones is a first round pick in a redraft

 

The draft experts projected Lee to the Falcons.  The Falcons picked a great safety, Keanu Neal, there.  He was one of the best picks in the first round.  I would rather have Neal than Adams. 

Then the Falcons picked Jones in the second.  

That is real scouting   And we wonder why they were in the Super Bowl in 2017?

 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, genot said:

Did you watch. Who says he's on the roster bubble. You. He will not be cut after week two. He didn't get much chance last year, did he. He might not get much chance this year, either.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/jets-ardarius-stewart-survives-cuts-for-now/

https://thejetpress.com/2018/06/25/new-york-jets-ardarius-stewart-roster-bubble/

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/21/6-jets-players-on-the-roster-bubble-as-training-camp-approaches/

Why didn't he get much chance?  More of Todd Bowles conspiracy to hold back the good players and only play the bad ones?

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IndianaJet

IndianaJet

Posted
Posted

Agreed.  There were some really dumb GMs in this league in 2017 for not picking Kareem Hunt, including:

Brandon Beane

Chris Ballard

John Lynch

Mike MaCagnan

Dave Caldwell

Jason Licht

Les Snead

Chris Grier/Mike Tannenbaum

Mickey Loomis

Bruce Allen

Ryan Pace

Howie Roseman

Tom Telesco

Bob Quinn

Rick Smith

Jon Robinson

Jerry Reese

Paul DePodesta/SashiBrown

Rick Spielman

Ozzie Newsome

Marvin Lewis

Dave Gettleman

Thomas Dimitroff

Kevin Colbert

Reggie McKenzie

Steve Keim

The Joneses

HorseFace

Ted Thompson

John Schneider

Belicheat

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varjet

varjet

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

Agreed.  There were some really dumb GMs in this league in 2017 for not picking Kareem Hunt, including:

Brandon Beane

Chris Ballard

John Lynch

Mike MaCagnan

Dave Caldwell

Jason Licht

Les Snead

Chris Grier/Mike Tannenbaum

Mickey Loomis

Bruce Allen

Ryan Pace

Howie Roseman

Tom Telesco

Bob Quinn

Rick Smith

Jon Robinson

Jerry Reese

Paul DePodesta/SashiBrown

Rick Spielman

Ozzie Newsome

Marvin Lewis

Dave Gettleman

Thomas Dimitroff

Kevin Colbert

Reggie McKenzie

Steve Keim

The Joneses

HorseFace

Ted Thompson

John Schneider

Belicheat

This is not the issue.  Prospects get graded.  Most of these gms either picked after hunt or picked other good players in the 3rd round. 

Mac picked Stewart over Hunt, after passing on Elflein and trading down.  That is bad scouting/drafting.  

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jgb

jgb

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, varjet said:

This is not the issue.  Prospects get graded.  Most of these gms either picked after hunt or picked other good players in the 3rd round. 

Mac picked Stewart over Hunt, after passing on Elflein and trading down.  That is bad scouting/drafting.  

Heaven forbid we judge a GM on objective criteria. Get with the program and start making excuses.

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chirorob

chirorob

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Solder, IMO, was highly overrated. Not to mention signed a huge deal at age 30. Giants are a win now team (in their minds). A 4 year deal with 35 million in guarantees to a 30 year old who looked good holding with Brady behind him? Had the Jets signed him, the board would explode and then explode again 2 years later when he was done.

I agree, I think he's a decent O Lineman who signed a long contract that will not look good in 2 years.

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genot

genot

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/jets-ardarius-stewart-survives-cuts-for-now/

https://thejetpress.com/2018/06/25/new-york-jets-ardarius-stewart-roster-bubble/

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/21/6-jets-players-on-the-roster-bubble-as-training-camp-approaches/

Why didn't he get much chance?  More of Todd Bowles conspiracy to hold back the good players and only play the bad ones?

Lol. Two of those articles talk about Hansen surviving cutdowns and not Stewart. Hansen is in N.E

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sec101row23

sec101row23

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, genot said:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yset_ie_syc_hp-s&p=adarius+stewart+highlights#id=2&vid=885f74c10d39a0467c579c586ac16dfb&action=clickJust watch the game film on Stewart. Then if you know what your watching, you'll understand how ridiculous the Stewart bashing is.

I bet you were saying things about Stephen Hill until the day he was finally cut.  If you truly knew what you were watching you would see a guy who was the 4th or 5th option who was largely ignored by opposing defenses.  

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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, genot said:

Did you watch. Who says he's on the roster bubble. You. He will not be cut after week two. He didn't get much chance last year, did he. He might not get much chance this year, either.

Then he sucks because we do not have a Juggernaut of a receiving corps.

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

Posted
Posted

I've posted this before, probably in one of the other "Why/ Why, Stewart over Hunt?"  threads, but here goes:

I follow the draft pretty closely.  I actually enjoy learning about UDFAs and late round picks.  I was high on Valdes-Scantling this year and wanted Will Tye.  When the Jets picked Lee and Stewart my response was "who? That seems like a reach."  They were guys that I had no interest in.  I ran and read their draft reports (and remembered who Lee was) and saw that they kind of went where they were projected. I grew to accept them, but with #20 and a third I should be excited about the player and potential.   

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, genot said:

Lol. Two of those articles talk about Hansen surviving cutdowns and not Stewart. Hansen is in N.E

What's your point?  That the predictions weren't 100% accurate?  Shocking!

You declared that I was the only one stating that Stewart was on the bubble.  I spent 40 seconds on google to show that you were wrong.

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Paradis

Paradis

Posted
Posted
He was projected as a 2-3 round pick and, contrary to the fiction you’re spinning, got high marks from a lot talent evaluators. 

Just because the Walterfootball’s declare it, hardly means it’s true/accurate. According to the same sources, Rudolph was a first round grade QB... (lol). Doesn’t mean sh*t... you couldn’t have found a receiver with less buzz (and for good reason) last year, than A. Stewart... you also couldn’t find a player with more buzz (and for good reason) than Hunt. We needed a back. We blew it.


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Paradis

Paradis

Posted
Posted
Agreed.  There were some really dumb GMs in this league in 2017 for not picking Kareem Hunt, including:

Brandon Beane

Chris Ballard

John Lynch

Mike MaCagnan

Dave Caldwell

Jason Licht

Les Snead

Chris Grier/Mike Tannenbaum

Mickey Loomis

Bruce Allen

Ryan Pace

Howie Roseman

Tom Telesco

Bob Quinn

Rick Smith

Jon Robinson

Jerry Reese

Paul DePodesta/SashiBrown

Rick Spielman

Ozzie Newsome

Marvin Lewis

Dave Gettleman

Thomas Dimitroff

Kevin Colbert

Reggie McKenzie

Steve Keim

The Joneses

HorseFace

Ted Thompson

John Schneider

Belicheat

 

Cmon. *eyeroll*

 

Yea? Did Rams with Gurley and The ‘boys with Elliot “pass” on Hunt?

 

That’s some weak sauce that neglects a zillion factors.

 

 

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Paradis

Paradis

Posted
Posted

What i genuinely don’t get is why anyone would come in here and Defend Macc’s drafting? How can that possibly be a stance anyone would take?

I’ll give him his due in other areas of GM’ing, but drafting? *Puke city*


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