OK, want to dump Bowles? Here are some of the top candidates

[varjet]

I think we already have a list of coaching gaffes from the first two weeks-there were even some from Detroit.

And the OL was not obviously not constructed over the last 3 years to be playoff caliber.  

If Darnold is the savior, having him spend his second year with the same coaching staff when we know those coaches are hopeless is not a good strategy, when he has a 5 year rookie contract.  The Bears made the change, and I would rather have Darnold than Trubisky.  I would rather have the rest of the Bears' roster though.  

I would keep Mac as an equal to Heimerdinger-have them focus on different things.  Bowles as a coach is not as good as John Fox, and look where that got him.  

[varjet]

18 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, through two games the D has been top 10 in just about every major category. Like it or not, this is the plan.

The strategy is often strong D plus strong OL/running game.  We missed the second part of that, at least last week.  

[Creepy Lurker]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but not the first paragraph. They extended Bowles and Maccagnan and then had an unprecedented number of high-dollar FAs turn us down. It happens now and then, and usually stems from the player simply chasing the money elsewhere or wanting to stay put where he already was, but that wasn't the case with any of these players: Cousins, Norwell, Robinson, Watkins, Suh. 

After back-to-back 5-win seasons I don't think it made the team an attractive location for players who got more money elsewhere (and for the above, even players who got offered the same or less money elsewhere).

There's plenty more to say, but it's September 18th - 3 games into a 2-year extension, so he's not going anywhere anytime soon. That is unless as @slats noted, someone like Jim Harbaugh made it known to the team he'd come here if he was given full control/final say and stuff. Then and only then could I see Chris/Woody eating the Macc+Bowles extensions just 1 year later.

I agree totally. That’s why I said we are “trying” to become an attractive place. We absolutely still were not during the 2018 offseason with your examples being proof. We have a young FQB with a very high ceiling and can wipe the slate clean after this season without looking like a dumpster fire finally. That’s all that I was trying to say. 

[UnitedWhofans]

How did Macc get into this conversation? Just drafted a increasingly solid franchise QB

[UntouchableCrew]

49 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Mac’s plan ? Lol The plan is Sam Darnold. The Johnsons will do whatever is in their franchise qb’s interest. They don’t give a dam about Todd Bowles wanting to be a D powerhouse if chasing that dream of his is causing Darnold to continuously eat grass because our line is horrid, because all the goods goes to Bowles’s D.

Bowles is only half the problem. Mac is equally to blame. Is it going to take the  Johnsons demanding  Mac draft OL before the 6th round ? We know what players Todd Bowles is demanding. The OL needs a major overhaul. It takes time to develop a solid OL. not just the draft, a New FA needs time to learn new O, his co-lineman. Nate solder is playing like complete garbage for Giants and he is pretty good OL. I think eventually he will help them. 

My worry is Mac and Bowles will know they will be on thin ice if they make it past this yr, they may not worry about building a OL for the future. We are more then 1 year away from building a solid OL, they may go for the players that help them in the short term, not future for ny jets and Sam Darnold.

I'm just pointing out that the current plan is to move forward with the current regime and evaluate after the season. If the defense looks like a 10 ten unit and Darnold is progressing nicely Bowles isn't getting fired.

[UntouchableCrew]

46 minutes ago, varjet said:

The strategy is often strong D plus strong OL/running game.  We missed the second part of that, at least last week.  

Agreed. Dolphins front seven whipped our line all game. It's a problem we all new about entering the season but a strong performance on MNF gave us a little confidence... It's clear the Lions just suck though. The line is likely to be a problem all year.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm just pointing out that the current plan is to move forward with the current regime and evaluate after the season. If the defense looks like a 10 ten unit and Darnold is progressing nicely Bowles isn't getting fired.

Darnold could be doing great for what he has to work with. If he is getting his head ripped off despite playing well, Mac and Bowles could both be gone. Unless they convince the Johnsons the number 1 goal for next 2 years will be building a solid OL around Darnold through draft and FA. Give him another WR. That defense will for once take a back seat. Would they do that ?

[HessStation]

17 hours ago, CTM said:

Bowles is getting atleast 19 due to Darnold,  deal with it

The one thing for me, is I think I might kinda like Bates or at least don’t mind seeing if there’s something there first before wanting to install another whole new offense w Darnold. If they go new HC better be an offensive genius type. 

 

I kind of like whaf im seeing from this team first two games tbh

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Darnold could be doing great for what he has to work with. If he is getting his head ripped off despite playing well, Mac and Bowles could both be gone. Unless they convince the Johnsons the number 1 goal for next 2 years will be building a solid OL around Darnold through draft and FA. Give him another WR. That defense will for once take a back seat. Would they do that ?

I think you're giving the Johnsons too much credit and suggesting the current regime is on thinner ice than they actually are. Just IMO.

That said, I think we all want the bulk of resources over the next five years to go into putting talent around Darnold.

[CTM]

9 minutes ago, HessStation said:

The one thing for me, is I think I might kinda like Bates or at least don’t mind seeing if there’s something there first before wanting to install another whole new offense w Darnold. If they go new HC better be an offensive genius type. 

 

I kind of like whaf im seeing from this team first two games tbh

Changing systems in year 2 not ideal. ONly way Bowles goes is if the team completely quits on him and they lose 14 games. A semi competitive season like last year with some Darnold progress gets him another year even if they only win 5 games. I don't see how he's not here tbh

[Sonny Werblin]

16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Agreed. Dolphins front seven whipped our line all game. It's a problem we all new about entering the season but a strong performance on MNF gave us a little confidence... It's clear the Lions just suck though. The line is likely to be a problem all year.

The O line really needs to get its sh*t together because after Cleveland 5 of the next 6 opponents are Jax, Denver, Minn, Chicago, and Miami again. It will get very ugly if they don't figure out how to keep Sam upright.

[peebag]

4 hours ago, kelly said:

ugghhhhh,.. this guy might be Lookin' for a gig   ?..

 

No, Kelly, he isn't.

[Jetsfan80]

It's impossible to properly evaluate Todd Bowles based on the rosters he's been given.  I'd like to say Bowles is about an average HC, but frankly I have no idea.

If we're firing Bowles, it can't be Mike Maccagnan making the call on the next HC.  Fire Bowles and you need to fire Maccagnan as well for giving him sh*t rosters. 

Start over with a VP of Football Operations.  Someone LIKE a Tom Coughlin or John Elway (of course we won't get someone of that caliber, but someone like that).  Let him run the ship.  We can't keep going back to the well on this stuff, because the best GM and HC candidates won't come here.  They don't care about the bright lights of NYC.  They might care a little about having Darnold.  But its still difficult to get quality people to run the show here.  That's why we need a VP.  

[UntouchableCrew]

17 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The O line really needs to get its sh*t together because after Cleveland 5 of the next 6 opponents are Jax, Denver, Minn, Chicago, and Miami again. It will get very ugly if they don't figure out how to keep Sam upright.

Pretty scary when you put it like that.

[Jetsplayer21]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's impossible to properly evaluate Todd Bowles based on the rosters he's been given.  I'd like to say Bowles is about an average HC, but frankly I have no idea.

If we're firing Bowles, it can't be Mike Maccagnan making the call on the next HC.  Fire Bowles and you need to fire Maccagnan as well for giving him sh*t rosters. 

Start over with a VP of Football Operations.  Someone LIKE a Tom Coughlin or John Elway (of course we won't get someone of that caliber, but someone like that).  Let him run the ship.  We can't keep going back to the well on this stuff, because the best GM and HC candidates won't come here.  They don't care about the bright lights of NYC.  They might care a little about having Darnold.  But its still difficult to get quality people to run the show here.  That's why we need a VP.  

Mac has given Todd Bowles what he wants. Obviously if we had a O minded HC, we don’t draft back to back safeties top of our draft in 17. A O minded OC would be demanding his gm build a solid OL, obviously Todd Bowles is too occupied with his D needs to demand Oline help. Mr t was same way. He gave rex everything he wanted on D, at the price of OL, offensive needs..

[varjet]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

I wonder how much influence Bowles has over our drafts?  I think that if you want to build a championship team, you almost have to draft a Left Tackle Round One.  We keep rolling retreads out there.  And drafting D. Fine if you are protecting Bryce Petty or Ryan Fitz.  Not so fine if you are protecting a blue chip QB.  You begin your climb with a QB and a LT.  But really the LT should be there before the QB.

in fairness to Mac, we have been through the drafts, and there was not really a LT that he could have drafted in round 1, unless we count Cam Robinson who fell to the bottom of the first round last year when we took Jamal Adams.

But that being said, the Jets OL issues are greater than just LT.  We can go through the drafts and find numerous good OL that we passed up to draft players that are either cut or ineffective.  Two examples off the top of my head?  Cody Whitehair (Hack) and Pat Elflein (Stewart).  

Andrew Whitworth and Nate Solder were FAs that the Jets could have signed.  Mac was not going to do that until he had a QB.  Granted, neither is fantastic, but they are better than what we have now (but Beachum was not bad last year).  

The good news, and don't shoot me for this, is that I expect the Jets to be picking pretty high again in the upcoming draft.  They and the Colts should enjoy that, as I would think that is the last time in a while they pick that high.  But I don't see them winning alot of games with this OL, and this is not the first time that we have seen a bad OL basically tank a season.  I hope I am proven wrong, and the Jets were in the game last Sunday-hopefully all of the losses are like that, when they lose.  But as we look at Cleveland, Denver and Jax, and then the Patriots 2x, I am not feeling alot of wins.

And that is before Beachum gets hurt again.  

[14 in Green]

10 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Were you happy with the coaching Sunday?

How about getting into the red zone at the end of the first half and letting the clock die with us on the one and no points?

How about exploiting the mismatch we had with rb on their LB?  A couple passes to Powell.  No use of speedy Trent Cannon.  Few screens or draw plays to slow the pass rush.

How about field position - our punt returner watched several punts just roll inside our 5 without fielding them.

How about getting his team up and ready to play for the home opener?

Avoiding stupid back breaking penalties?  We had both penalty killing drives for us and penalty sustaining drives for them.

How about clock management?   It’s the 4 th quarter you’re down by two scores and you run and don’t do hurry up offense or show any sense of urgency?

I haven’t been a fan since his first yr but he seems like a decent guy and Iwas hoping he might grow into the job.   I’m not seeing it

Just curious. How did you like him last Monday against the Lions? I’m also confused how field position, players not making plays, or not being aware of having no time outs is all on him. At what point do you look at the players also? It’s always easy to say fire the coach. But like the OP said, who do you want? Please don’t say “anyone”. Are you then willing to give the new guy the time to grow into the job, and get his system and players and staff all in place? Bowles isn’t the second coming, but how many are? I’d rather look at changing maybe the defensive and special team coaches. Stay the course with Bowles, and keep the OC and QB coaches the same for Sam to develop faster.

[14 in Green]

9 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Fire Bowles? It’s not about this year, it’s about developing Darnold which seems to be going well under Bates. This is a 7 to 8 win team. If we get lucky maybe 9 or if we miss a game winning FG maybe a 7 win team. Every time we lose a game are we going to get one of these stupid threads? 

 

Yes, because most of these guys would rather play armchair GM during the offseason then watch the games play out during the regular season. To start in with this fire the coach crap 2 weeks in with a 1-1 record is beyond stupid. But you’ll keep seeing them start a new one after every loss. That’s because they all know how to draft, and coach a team better then anyone in the NFL.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, nj meadowlands said:

 

Not that it would be Harbaugh (screw him, tbh), but do you think having Darnold on board is a true incentive for a blueblood coach to come here?

It certainly wouldn't hurt, lol. That is, unless there was a HC candidate who believed he'd be better off without Darnold (who's going nowhere anytime soon, if ever). Seeing as how unlikely that is, yes I'd have to believe - compared in particular to what we had before - it would be an incentive. Even more so with his rookie season is out of the way, but such a HC is only signing a Gruden-type deal, so he shouldn't be worried about a mulligan season why a rookie QB took his lumps anyway.

Any HC worth bringing in should realize the advantage of a FQB playing for $8m/year for the next 3 seasons, plus a slightly-discounted rate for year 4 (Darnold's 5th year option), which itself could be lowered further that season by rolling it into an extension. Likewise, ownership should realize the current waste of this opportunity, but it's destined to be the case for half his rookie contract.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's impossible to properly evaluate Todd Bowles based on the rosters he's been given.  I'd like to say Bowles is about an average HC, but frankly I have no idea.

If we're firing Bowles, it can't be Mike Maccagnan making the call on the next HC.  Fire Bowles and you need to fire Maccagnan as well for giving him sh*t rosters. 

Start over with a VP of Football Operations.  Someone LIKE a Tom Coughlin or John Elway (of course we won't get someone of that caliber, but someone like that).  Let him run the ship.  We can't keep going back to the well on this stuff, because the best GM and HC candidates won't come here.  They don't care about the bright lights of NYC.  They might care a little about having Darnold.  But its still difficult to get quality people to run the show here.  That's why we need a VP.  

Agree mostly with this, except I would remove the word "properly" and replace with "fully" instead. The caveat being we can evaluate him adequately; even if he has a bit more to add, few truly believe it'll ever be enough. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I agree totally. That’s why I said we are “trying” to become an attractive place. We absolutely still were not during the 2018 offseason with your examples being proof. We have a young FQB with a very high ceiling and can wipe the slate clean after this season without looking like a dumpster fire finally. That’s all that I was trying to say. 

My feeling was more along the lines of there's often (if not usually) a new enthusiasm when a failing team has cleaned house. Just because they stayed away when Macc came calling to play for Bowles doesn't mean they'd stay away with a good GM calling to play for a good HC.

To a FA, arguably the most attractive part of playing for Bowles is he isn't going to be barking in the player's ear every 5 min he's not producing. Indeed, for weeks or months at a time he'll publicly make excuses for the player. 

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not even close. Hyperbole there.

What does he do well?

We haven't had back to back losing seasons since kotite until the last 2 years.

We blow leads like crazy under Todd including a 14 pt 4th qtr lead for the first time since kotite.

Was Buffalo more talented than us last yr?  They had McCoy and we didn't, other than that we were as good or better just about everywhere else yet they made the playoffs and we won 5 games.

In the biggest game since 2010 after we got a Pitt upset to set up a win and in game in 2015 Bowles had his team totally unprepared (a recurring theme throughout his time here) and they lost to an inferior team that was also banged up as Bowles was badly outcoached by the guy we fired.

 

So please tell me what he does well? Why we should keep him post 2018?  He has 14 games to change my mind but based on the first 50 games how can anyone have confidence in him?

[RoadFan]

9 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

I don't see what the problem is.

Jets are 5th in defensive yards allowed.

Jets are 8th in defensive passing yards.

Jets are 11th in defensive rushing yards.

The collective critical psyche of this board prior to the season seemed to be that with Bowles being a supposed defensive specialist that he needed to finish in the top 1/2 of the league in order to return. We were told that was impossible, that they would be near last in those categories.

Seems like mission accomplished so far.

Bowles' teams constantly commit stupid penalties... offense, defense, and special teams. 

His players don't know to get out of bounds in the two minute drill.  They don't know to stay in bounds with a lead.

He has no idea when to go on 4th down, when to kick a FG, and when to punt. 

Every time there is a decision to make, the Jets have to call timeout.  Good coaches have already gone through the scenario in their head two or three plays before.

Have we ever once seen the Jets do something clever to force the other team to burn a timeout?  IE: Offense sprint to the line of scrimmage on 4th and short... try to draw them offsides with a hard count... then snap it and QB sneak?  No wait! It wouldn't work because his undisciplined players would false start anyway...

How many times do we have to see his defense give up 3rd and a mile?

Need I go on?

 

[Bowles Movement]

33 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Just curious. How did you like him last Monday against the Lions? I’m also confused how field position, players not making plays, or not being aware of having no time outs is all on him. At what point do you look at the players also? It’s always easy to say fire the coach. But like the OP said, who do you want? Please don’t say “anyone”. Are you then willing to give the new guy the time to grow into the job, and get his system and players and staff all in place? Bowles isn’t the second coming, but how many are? I’d rather look at changing maybe the defensive and special team coaches. Stay the course with Bowles, and keep the OC and QB coaches the same for Sam to develop faster.

They looked prepared and motivated on Monday night.   As I stated above and have posted elsewhere, I understand the continuity argument and have been rooting for him to improve.  Monday was encouraging.   Sunday felt like Same Ol Bowles-Stupid plays, inopportune penaltes, poor clock management.  That all falls on coaching.   I’ll continue to root for him and the Jets success , but you’ve got to keep it real. That was bad.

[Bowles Movement]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My feeling was more along the lines of there's often (if not usually) a new enthusiasm when a failing team has cleaned house. Just because they stayed away when Macc came calling to play for Bowles doesn't mean they'd stay away with a good GM calling to play for a good HC.

To a FA, arguably the most attractive part of playing for Bowles is he isn't going to be barking in the player's ear every 5 min he's not producing. Indeed, for weeks or months at a time he'll publicly make excuses for the player. 

Dont take this as a sales pitch to keep Bowles but program continuity has to be a factor.   Look what happened to Anderson when the Colts switched defenses.   If I was a player, I’d want to be in systems that had been proven successful and was likely to be stable for most of my contract

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, Jetster said:

I think the way we should be looking at this is what other head coaches are on the hot seat & which defensive coordinators will be on the street.

Elevate Bates (Most important coach right now because of Darnold). Find the best DC on the street. Just imagine a veteran DC coming in & Chris Johnson gives him this mandate, "We need to be top 15 not 25 like we were under Todd Bowles". 

Not that tough of an assignment guys & girls. This team has always rewarded mediocrity. Bowles is as mediocre as you get. He's a defensive Bruce Coslett & our organization can't see it.

just top 15?  the defense should be top 10.  definitely wouldn't want bruce coslet 2.0 in any capacity.  can't say bates should be hc of the jets or any team, yet.  but you are right about finding a decent dc or even oc.  just find a guy who comes from the wade philips or dick lebeau defensive mind set.

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, rangerous said:

just top 15?  the defense should be top 10.  definitely wouldn't want bruce coslet 2.0 in any capacity.  can't say bates should be hc of the jets or any team, yet.  but you are right about finding a decent dc or even oc.  just find a guy who comes from the wade philips or dick lebeau defensive mind set.

I was being facetious. It's amazing how this organization continues to strive for mediocre. My feelings are when you hire someone who's forte is offense or defense, that particular side of the ball after 3 years should show tremendous growth once the "system" takes hold. Especially if when so many resources are provided to that side of the ball. 

If we hired a young offensive wiz, I would expect to see some kind of system in place in the 3rd year. It's only 2 games, so AGAIN, I'm going to give Todd another 14 games before I can completely judge on whether or not he's improved but I'm not holding my breath.

[14 in Green]

10 hours ago, Jetster said:

I think the way we should be looking at this is what other head coaches are on the hot seat & which defensive coordinators will be on the street.

Elevate Bates (Most important coach right now because of Darnold). Find the best DC on the street. Just imagine a veteran DC coming in & Chris Johnson gives him this mandate, "We need to be top 15 not 25 like we were under Todd Bowles". 

Not that tough of an assignment guys & girls. This team has always rewarded mediocrity. Bowles is as mediocre as you get. He's a defensive Bruce Coslett & our organization can't see it.

You lost me with elevating Bates. I mean, really?

[rangerous]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I was being facetious. It's amazing how this organization continues to strive for mediocre. My feelings are when you hire someone who's forte is offense or defense, that particular side of the ball after 3 years should show tremendous growth once the "system" takes hold. Especially if when so many resources are provided to that side of the ball. 

If we hired a young offensive wiz, I would expect to see some kind of system in place in the 3rd year. It's only 2 games, so AGAIN, I'm going to give Todd another 14 games before I can completely judge on whether or not he's improved but I'm not holding my breath.

yep. about the only thing is anyone can say is the team didn't have the players to fully run bowles defense.  it's not a great excuse.  the really good coaches can make do with what they've got.  i guess we'll just have see after the next 14 games.

[Jetster]

Just now, 14 in Green said:

You lost me with elevating Bates. I mean, really?

The NFL is all about offense. When you get a QB you put a system in & then expand it each year. Why, you don't think Bates could do better than 20-30? You've got Bates, you've got Oline coach both from successful offenses. 

You add any decent DC that gets fired next year & you shore up the line, get a couple of pass rushers & keep bringing Darnold along. We're getting very close to the end for Brady. We'll have probably 15 years trying to get to & win a Super Bowl.

[Jetster]

9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yep. about the only thing is anyone can say is the team didn't have the players to fully run bowles defense.  it's not a great excuse.  the really good coaches can make do with what they've got.  i guess we'll just have see after the next 14 games.

One of the things great coaches do is recognize what certain players CAN DO, and put them in the best position to succeed. Todd Bowles & Kacey Rogers had Sheldon Richardson playing LB? 

[jack48]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

in fairness to Mac, we have been through the drafts, and there was not really a LT that he could have drafted in round 1, unless we count Cam Robinson who fell to the bottom of the first round last year when we took Jamal Adams.

But that being said, the Jets OL issues are greater than just LT.  We can go through the drafts and find numerous good OL that we passed up to draft players that are either cut or ineffective.  Two examples off the top of my head?  Cody Whitehair (Hack) and Pat Elflein (Stewart).  

Andrew Whitworth and Nate Solder were FAs that the Jets could have signed.  Mac was not going to do that until he had a QB.  Granted, neither is fantastic, but they are better than what we have now (but Beachum was not bad last year).  

The good news, and don't shoot me for this, is that I expect the Jets to be picking pretty high again in the upcoming draft.  They and the Colts should enjoy that, as I would think that is the last time in a while they pick that high.  But I don't see them winning alot of games with this OL, and this is not the first time that we have seen a bad OL basically tank a season.  I hope I am proven wrong, and the Jets were in the game last Sunday-hopefully all of the losses are like that, when they lose.  But as we look at Cleveland, Denver and Jax, and then the Patriots 2x, I am not feeling alot of wins.

And that is before Beachum gets hurt again.  

Thanks for looking at the drafts.  Still, a left tackle is a special animal and we need one.  Beechum is a bit of a stiff, in my book.  And I still dont know why we went so defensive.  BPA, I guess.

[jetstream23]

18 hours ago, David Harris said:

Jeremy Bates needs to be the HC or OC - I love what he’s doing with Sam.

I don't know that he's a HC though.  Coaching up a young QB and coordinating an offense for him is what Bates is good at.  Bates doesn't even coordinate the whole offense, he has Dennison as a run game coordinator.  I really like Bates but I just don't know that's a HC.  Quite honestly, it's like Rex and Bowles.....are they good HC's or were they just really good coordinators who should have stayed in that box?

[jetstream23]

10 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Bowles is back if: 

- Darnold & young Defense develop well

- Team finishes around .500 or greater.

Bowles is gone if:

- Another 5-11 season

- He stunts Darnold’s growth

- Bates isn’t up to the task (Bowles hired him to develop Darnold)

- A big name coach with experience becomes available (a Harbaugh, Payton, Holmgren, whoever)

Good post.  I think those are the easy things to look at though.  It becomes a little more nuanced and that's why I'd LOVE to see something like PFF grades for coaches.  As an example, did Bowles mismanage the timeouts in Week 1 or was there a problem with Darnold's headset communication?  Did Bowles mismanage the clock at the end of the 1st Half vs Miami or did Herndon make a stupid rookie mistake and not get out of bounds on the sideline, or should Darnold not have thrown the ball in the middle of the field with no timeouts and only 5 seconds left?  Are the penalties Bowles' fault?  Shouldn't he be coaching defensive coverage technique better so that we're not getting all these holding and PI calls?  Is Bowles using the right personnel?  If he trusts a rookie like Darnold over McCown why doesn't he trust a rookie like Nickerson to play Slot CB over Buster Skrine?

To me, it's all those kinds of things that factor into whether or not we have a good HC.  A great HC could go 6-10 and a bad HC might have enough talent to get to 9-7.  I don't know.  But, what I do know is that we have to look at more than numbers.  Just like Darnold's 1 TD, 2 INT game this past Sunday...I'd put one of those INTs on WR Pryor for under-running a route and not looking for the ball quickly enough.  We also point out that Darnold had at least 2 excellent passes that were dropped and one pass to the 1-yard line that could have given him 2 TDs on the day.

All this is to say that I think the evaluation of a HC has to be multi-faceted and done within the context of the environment around him.

[Jetsplayer21]

17 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't know that he's a HC though.  Coaching up a young QB and coordinating and offense for him is what Bates is good at.  Bates doesn't even coordinate the whole offense, he has Dennison as a run game coordinator.  I really like Bates but I just don't know that's a HC.  Quite honestly, it's like Rex and Bowles.....are they good HC's or were they just really good coordinators who should have stayed in that box?

Exactly, just demote Bowles to DC. It is not like he is going to find another HC job..