Jets Waive ArDarius Stewart

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Macc saved his job by trading up to # 3 last year. Without that he would be a goner.

Even with it he should be a goner.  One "luck into it" pick does not erase years of consistent errors, reaches and bad drafting/signings.

Imagine if Cleveland DID pick Darnold, and The Giants went QB too.

We could be defending Macc today for drafting Allen + all these draft picks.

Darnold is 100% luck, not GM skill, and that pick shouldn't save his ass if/when the time comes.

Macc is the core reason this team is so talent deficient, his years of drafting have left us with so very little.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

...I’m borderline tempted to try and find his posts. He was so completely steadfast and confident he was right LOL. 

Go back to the part where he tried to convince me the Jets were like the 8th ranked rush defense last year when they were actually 24th.

[SR24]

I love Macs tenacity in trades and free agency but holy crap this guy might be the worst drafter in the league

[Thai Jet]

11 hours ago, varjet said:

The Jets finally have a FQB, but we will not make the playoffs because the rest of the roster has too many problems, even though Mac had 4 off seasons and drafts to build it to prepare for the arrival of the eventual Messiah FQB.  

Even the 2018 draft, which looks better, had effectively 3 DL taken when we play a 3-4 and basically already had at least 4 DL on the roster who were functional.  We play 5 OL and have 3-4 who are functional.  We play a 3-4 defense and do not really have a Rushing EDGE.

We are carrying 7 CBs and one on suspension, and only play 3 at a time, at most.  

Mac should be named a President in name only and focus on trades and big picture stuff.  Let Heimerdinger and a new staff actually scout and draft the college players.  

You make several excellent points. Especially with the O line.

I have no problem with extra CB's . IMHO you can never have enough. I remember one year the Pats had to play a WR as a CB in the playoffs because of injuries. Troy Brown ?

[TuscanyTile2]

55 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Then Mac is brilliant, because he drafted them! Lol

No he sucks because he should've seen this all coming.  He should've let the Pats draft these guys and then sign them when the Pats cut them.   Elementary!

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

You make several excellent points. Especially with the O line.

I have no problem with extra CB's . IMHO you can never have enough. I remember one year the Pats had to play a WR as a CB in the playoffs because of injuries. Troy Brown ?

You are correct. I 'll never forget Belichik's answer either for why he did it. To paraprse...'it was an easy call, he's the best athlete on this team."  

[munchmemory]

[TuscanyTile2]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Even with it he should be a goner.  One "luck into it" pick does not erase years of consistent errors, reaches and bad drafting/signings.

Imagine if Cleveland DID pick Darnold, and The Giants went QB too.

We could be defending Macc today for drafting Allen + all these draft picks.

Darnold is 100% luck, not GM skill, and that pick shouldn't save his ass if/when the time comes.

Macc is the core reason this team is so talent deficient, his years of drafting have left us with so very little.

That's how the league works though.  Aaron Rodgers fell into the Packers' laps.  Tom Brady was a 6th round lottery ticket who turned into the GOAT.  The Colts sucked in the year that Andrew Luck was available. Meanwhile the Jets had the #1 overall 2 straight years after Peyton's soph and jr seasons but he stayed in school all 4 years.  Luck plays a huge role (not just Andrew).

[#27TheDominator]

I find it amusing that everybody here is so ready to kill Maccagnan for all decisions, but willingly accept Sam Darnold as a true franchise QB and savior.  If Mac is so bad, what are the chances that Dorsey, McCloughan and Gettelman were right? 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I think the players picked immediately after a pick are the best example of how good or bad a pick was, because the scouts use a lot of the same information and methods.  So, in fairness, their boards look pretty similar based on information they have and they way they were trained to use it.  Now, some teams occasionally try and look at information and scout differently-the Seahawks a few years back, for example, but that appears to have sputtered.

But picking Stewart and Hansen out of the group of players presented above is really bad.

We should look at who got picked after Hackenburg, and Devin Smith.  That ain’t pretty either.  

I agree. I was merely pointing out hindsight doesn’t work on draft days like it does 2-3 years later. 

[JetsFanatic]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's how the league works though.  Aaron Rodgers fell into the Packers' laps.  Tom Brady was a 6th round lottery ticket who turned into the GOAT.  The Colts sucked in the year that Andrew Luck was available. Meanwhile the Jets had the #1 overall 2 straight years after Peyton's soph and jr seasons but he stayed in school all 4 years.  Luck plays a huge role (not just Andrew).

Darnold didn't fall into our lap.  If Mac doesn't make the St. Patricks Day trade with the Colts, we probably don't get Darnold.  Mac deserves credit because the longer he would have waited, the more expensive the trade would have been. He also made the smart trade of Richardson for Kearse and a 2nd rounder.  Without that trade, no Darnold.

[genot]

21 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Go back to the part where he tried to convince me the Jets were like the 8th ranked rush defense last year when they were actually 24th.

I said I was wrong. It was a conference ranking. people sometimes make mistakes. It's when they don't fess up to them, then it becomes a problem.

[HessStation]

30 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Go back to the part where he tried to convince me the Jets were like the 8th ranked rush defense last year when they were actually 24th.

You’ll get a response in like 5 min, dude is a bit hypersensitive

[genot]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

You’ll get a response in like 5 min, dude is a bit hypersensitive

Lol. It was like 20 seconds. See, your mistaken.

[CanadaSteve]

13 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Since I'm too lazy to do research, who was around at that time?

If you go until the Jets following pick, who by the way is ALSO not on the team:

Derek Rivers DE

Chris Godwin WR

Kareem Hunt RB

Davis Webb QB (which we now have)

Kenny Golladay

Shaquill Griffin DB

Nico Saragusa G

Fabian Moreau CB

D'onta Foreman RB

Cordrea Tankersley CB

Trey Hendrickson DE

Carl Lawson OLB

David Sharpe OT

Julie'N Davenport OT

So, you know, almost every-other pick after him is/has shown some good/great potential, but hey......

[CanadaSteve]

There is NOTHING wrong with giving kudos for Mac for getting Darnold.  Did he fall to us?  Yes, but without the trade-up, without getting a Jermaine Kearse AND a 2nd pick, we don't get him.  Was it a bit lucky, yes....but sometimes you get lucky when you make smart and bold moves.

That being said, Mac's drafting history has been under par.  He has WAY too many misses.  You can't get one pick per year working out.  That is how you wind up over-paying in FA, and that never works well.  Teams that draft well consistently do well in the NFL....period.  We do NOT draft well consistently.....period.

[Sperm Edwards]

35 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Darnold didn't fall into our lap.  If Mac doesn't make the St. Patricks Day trade with the Colts, we probably don't get Darnold.  Mac deserves credit because the longer he would have waited, the more expensive the trade would have been. He also made the smart trade of Richardson for Kearse and a 2nd rounder.  Without that trade, no Darnold.

At the time it was looking like a 2-QB first tier then a 2-QB second tier. That's why Indy was willing to move the pick. Macc wanted to make sure he didn't also miss out on both of the 2nd-tier QBs.

I find it amazing that anyone believes that Macc - and only Macc - would have moved up in his then-present predicament after getting turned down from guaranteeing $100m to Kirk Cousins. The guy had made a career out of crawling back into his shell instead of making early-draft trades up or down. He's suddenly the mastermind that we couldn't do without? Lol.

There was no option to stay at #6 heading into the draft while there was a QB-not-needy team at #3. Had Buffalo moved up to #3, with Denver still a high-probability QB pick at #5, he'd have been fired and he knew it. There was no tough decision for him.

As excited as I am to have the hope Darnold brings, only time will tell if we're better off with Darnold + Adams instead of Mahomes + 2018 1st + 2018 2nd + 2018 2nd + 2019 2nd + an entire extra NFL season. Maybe even another pick if we moved down a few slots from #6 and still took him, but even I'm not that greedy, lol.

The Richardson trade you mention was him getting undeservedly lucky because Seattle rescued him from his own stupidity, making the calculation that the comp pick they'd recover for losing Richardson wasn't much lower than the pick they'd surrender for renting him as a SB contender. Kearse was a throw-in because he was about to get cut anyway, and frankly if we didn't pick up Kearse and/or McCown (neither of which non-acquisition would have been controversial), there's every likelihood we wouldn't have needed to trade an extra 2nd or two (or three) to move up to #3 overall in the first place. Who makes a decision to tank a season and then bring in just enough short-term rentals to half-ass even that decision? 

[j4jets]

44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I find it amusing that everybody here is so ready to kill Maccagnan for all decisions, but willingly accept Sam Darnold as a true franchise QB and savior.  If Mac is so bad, what are the chances that Dorsey, McCloughan and Gettelman were right? 

Because maybe it’s possivle that Mac failed to build a competitive roster? I’d say a QBs importance is probably two third of the entire team, or at least half. Mac has a below average roster for that remaining 50%. Combine that with an above average QB and all of a sudden, you have a competitive team. That still doesn’t mean you’re excused from everything. What will save him if the QB is a top 5 in the league that can propel a below average roster into a playoff caliber team year after year. 

With so many high draft picks and a boatload of salary cap to start his tenure, Mac inherited a good situation to succeed if he was any good. Yes, it wasn’t the ideal situation but how many GMs inherit an ideal situation when the previous GM and HC were just fired? Did you know Mac’s teams just went 5-11  for two straight years? 

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Even with it he should be a goner.  One "luck into it" pick does not erase years of consistent errors, reaches and bad drafting/signings.

Imagine if Cleveland DID pick Darnold, and The Giants went QB too.

We could be defending Macc today for drafting Allen + all these draft picks.

Darnold is 100% luck, not GM skill, and that pick shouldn't save his ass if/when the time comes.

Macc is the core reason this team is so talent deficient, his years of drafting have left us with so very little.

Well I won't disagree that there is a talent deficiency here. But Macc traded up to 3, so I think he stays just for that. I do think the Jets will be viewed as lucky because the Browns and Giants passed. But we have waited forever for a QB, so I don't think the guy that just got him will be fired. That said, the drafting has been terrible no disagreement there.

[j4jets]

45 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Darnold didn't fall into our lap.  If Mac doesn't make the St. Patricks Day trade with the Colts, we probably don't get Darnold.  Mac deserves credit because the longer he would have waited, the more expensive the trade would have been. He also made the smart trade of Richardson for Kearse and a 2nd rounder.  Without that trade, no Darnold.

It was a shot in the dark. He was ok with any of the top 3 QBs (Sam, Baker or Rosen). Here’s something to ponder. Rosen went 10th overall. Could’ve stayed put and he still would’ve had his guy. He just didn’t wanna risk losing out on any of the top 3 guys (I don’t believe Josh Allen was a top 3 on our board). Browns has a brain fart, and the extremely well-run (sarcasm alert) Giants team decided they can squeeze a SB run by providing Barkley to lil old Manning. So yes, Darnold fell in his lap when he was expecting Baker as best case and Rosen as worst case. It makes him look like a complete genius now and it’s probably the only move that will eventually save his GM career. 

[kelly]

Jets Waive ArDarius Stewart..

'bout time    ?

[JetsFanatic]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

At the time it was looking like a 2-QB first tier then a 2-QB second tier. That's why Indy was willing to move the pick. Macc wanted to make sure he didn't also miss out on both of the 2nd-tier QBs.

I find it amazing that anyone believes that Macc - and only Macc - would have moved up in his then-present predicament after getting turned down from guaranteeing $100m to Kirk Cousins. The guy had made a career out of crawling back into his shell instead of making early-draft trades up or down. He's suddenly the mastermind that we couldn't do without? Lol.

There was no option to stay at #6 heading into the draft while there was a QB-not-needy team at #3. Had Buffalo moved up to #3, with Denver still a high-probability QB pick at #5, he'd have been fired and he knew it. There was no tough decision for him.

As excited as I am to have the hope Darnold brings, only time will tell if we're better off with Darnold + Adams instead of Mahomes + 2018 1st + 2018 2nd + 2018 2nd + 2019 2nd + an entire extra NFL season. Maybe even another pick if we moved down a few slots from #6 and still took him, but even I'm not that greedy, lol.

The Richardson trade you mention was him getting undeservedly lucky because Seattle rescued him from his own stupidity, making the calculation that the comp pick they'd recover for losing Richardson wasn't much lower than the pick they'd surrender for renting him as a SB contender. Kearse was a throw-in because he was about to get cut anyway, and frankly if we didn't pick up Kearse and/or McCown (neither of which non-acquisition would have been controversial), there's every likelihood we wouldn't have needed to trade an extra 2nd or two (or three) to move up to #3 overall in the first place. Who makes a decision to tank a season and then bring in just enough short-term rentals to half-ass even that decision? 

So when moves work out it’s luck and when they don’t he sucks.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Oh no!! now watch the rush of other teams go to sign that beast

[ZachEY]

56 minutes ago, genot said:

I said I was wrong. It was a conference ranking. people sometimes make mistakes. It's when they don't fess up to them, then it becomes a problem.

They were 11th in the AFC last year in Rush Defense.  11th of 16.

 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I find it amusing that everybody here is so ready to kill Maccagnan for all decisions, but willingly accept Sam Darnold as a true franchise QB and savior.  If Mac is so bad, what are the chances that Dorsey, McCloughan and Gettelman were right? 

Mac got lucky though to his credit I heard Rosen was the qb he was going to take at 3

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

 So when moves work out it’s luck and when they don’t he sucks.

It was an okay move to go up to 3.  It was luck that Darnold was available.

No one, including Macc (as seen by video and various print reports) thought Darnold would be available.

[Philc1]

11 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

So when moves work out it’s luck and when they don’t he sucks.

Until Sam fell in his lap Macc was arguably the worst GM in the nfl at drafting 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I find it amusing that everybody here is so ready to kill Maccagnan for all decisions, but willingly accept Sam Darnold as a true franchise QB and savior.  If Mac is so bad, what are the chances that Dorsey, McCloughan and Gettelman were right? 

People are way to quick to anoint Darnold a "true franchise QB and savior" but from what we've already seen, it's safe to say he's better than what we've had.  He may never reduce the turnover issues, but he's also dealing with a disaster of a roster on the offensive side of the ball, so there's little reason to think he won't at least be solid.  And solid is a monumental improvement over the past.

Also, this feels different than the other times the "best guys" fell to us.  The Browns took their top QB, which QBASE agreed with.  I'd have done it differently, but you can at least follow the logic.  The Giants took the top playmaker in the draft with the hope that between him, eli, and odell, they could win in the short term.  I'd also have done it differently, but you can again follow the logic.  In the past, the Jets took low-value position guys that were considered to be top guys, but other teams passed because they don't play positions that matter as much.

[#27TheDominator]

31 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Because maybe it’s possivle that Mac failed to build a competitive roster? I’d say a QBs importance is probably two third of the entire team, or at least half. Mac has a below average roster for that remaining 50%. Combine that with an above average QB and all of a sudden, you have a competitive team. That still doesn’t mean you’re excused from everything. What will save him if the QB is a top 5 in the league that can propel a below average roster into a playoff caliber team year after year. 

With so many high draft picks and a boatload of salary cap to start his tenure, Mac inherited a good situation to succeed if he was any good. Yes, it wasn’t the ideal situation but how many GMs inherit an ideal situation when the previous GM and HC were just fired? Did you know Mac’s teams just went 5-11  for two straight years? 

I have no idea what you are talking about.  Do you think my post is some great support of Maccagnan?  It is not.  It is a call to be more skeptical of Darnold.  He looks good so far, but "cow on ice!"

11 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

So when moves work out it’s luck and when they don’t he sucks.

Yep, but what moves worked?  That is where the true JN brawling comes into play. 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, genot said:

You were absolutely right on Stewart. Do you think his release was more than just football related. Very unusual for a 3rd round pick to be released going into his second year.

If Macagnan is making the draft pick it’s not unusual 

[Philc1]

14 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

People are way to quick to anoint Darnold a "true franchise QB and savior" but from what we've already seen, it's safe to say he's better than what we've had.  He may never reduce the turnover issues, but he's also dealing with a disaster of a roster on the offensive side of the ball, so there's little reason to think he won't at least be solid.  And solid is a monumental improvement over the past.

Also, this feels different than the other times the "best guys" fell to us.  The Browns took their top QB, which QBASE agreed with.  I'd have done it differently, but you can at least follow the logic.  The Giants took the top playmaker in the draft with the hope that between him, eli, and odell, they could win in the short term.  I'd also have done it differently, but you can again follow the logic.  In the past, the Jets took low-value position guys that were considered to be top guys, but other teams passed because they don't play positions that matter as much.

Sam was the best qb in last year’s draft by far.  He’s just a rookie he’s going to have turnovers

[JetsFanatic]

47 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It was an okay move to go up to 3.  It was luck that Darnold was available.

No one, including Macc (as seen by video and various print reports) thought Darnold would be available.

Correct, had he he stayed at 6 he would have had no chance. It worked out.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

So when moves work out it’s luck and when they don’t he sucks.

Honestly? Yeah, pretty much.

[Larz]

Maybe the pro scouts are better than the college scouts? 

[Jack Straw]

Maccagnan has been nothing short of atrocious in four out of four phases of GM'ing: free agency, drafting, and re-signing his own players, and trading. 

On the free agency front, he's done nothing but apply short-term bandaids (one/two year stop-gaps) at key positions of need (Terrell Pryor, Kelvin Beachum, Morris Claiborne, Josh McCown, Matt Forte, etc.). On the trading front, he's done very much the same (Brandon Marshall for a 5th, Ryan Clady for a 5th, Ryan Fitzpatrick for a 7th, etc.) and then doubled-down on blowing draft picks by trading up for nobodies like Bryce Petty. 

In free agency, he blew through $100 million+ signing guys like Revis and Cromartie and then threw more money away at re-signing his washed-up veterans like Davis Harris.

He re-upped Brian Winters at exactly the wrong time, overpaying for him, and then managed to somehow get nothing in return (a four year deal) for all that money he spent. Brian Winters will be ready to cash-in again as a free agent at 29 years old; if Maccagnan was going to overpay for Winters, fine - but overpay in years 1 and 2 and get a longer deal locked up so you can recognize savings in years 3-5). Don't sign him to a 4 year freaking deal, where the guy is going to be in the middle of his prime and expecting one last huge payday. 

Need I even bring up paying Wilkerson a boat-load of money while they watched Damon Harrison walk across the hall to the Giants? 

How about his drafting, which has been atrocious as well. Sorry, but drafting the lowest-risk players at the least-important positions with the #6, #6, and #21 picks is NOT a Super Bowl winning strategy. It's the sign of a spineless blowhard. 

Mike Maccagnan is a millionaire living in metro NYC and still drinks Dunkin' Donuts coffee every day. He can't "scout" coffee, it's no wonder that he can't scout football players.