The Giants are 1 and 5

[Sarge4Tide]

I sure hate that for 'em

[Barry McCockinner]

[GREENBEAN]

3 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Yes anytime the Giants are stinking up the joint is a good time. Huge mistake not taking a QB at 2. Barkley is a great player no doubt but long is the list of great backs who played on a high level but never won a thing without a quality QB. Passing on a QB in last year's draft could haunt the Giants for quite a while. 

 

They are candidates for the number one pick. Who are the QB's coming out in next years draft?  Will they get a Franchise guy there?  It seems like something the Giants would luck right into. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Mo Lew said:

I get your premise but you have no idea how any of the qbs will pan out. That being said I couldn’t be happier with Sam

Of course you don’t ! Hell ya I’m so happier with Sam instead of say having Barkley and picking what ever qb top 3 next yr 

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, Lizard King said:

It’s easy to say that about Eli in retrospect but Barkeley is insane 

Retrospect? Macadoo benched him last year for Geno. Everyone mocked Macadoo, turns out he was right. Eli was the problem. All Eli can do is air it out deep or dump it off. He is too scared to get to go through progressions. He has been toast for years and for a "winner" his career winning pct  is around .500. 

The Giants brought in two guys that needed to win now. An old GM on his last legs and a HC that failed in Cleveland and was desperate to win now. So they paid Odell a fortune despite being a head case (because he was  good boy in March/April) they passed on potential franchise QBs they gave an average LT a monster deal. 

This team has no cap space heading into next  year and need to pray they are in position to draft a QB high or else it will be an even worse disaster. 

[nj meadowlands]

I love how there are people out there acting like the Giants played 4 dimensional chess by drafting Barkley and "setting themselves up to draft a quarterback next year." This is absurd on so many levels. Off the top --  (1) Barkley, despite being a transcendent running back, is a running back. A running back.  (2) Who knows what next year's QB crop will look like? You can barely "project" that stuff a few weeks before the draft, let alone an entire year before. So the idea that the Giants had their eye on someone is truly laughable.  (3) if it's true that the Giants were really high on Darnold pre-draft, I still can't compute passing on a then 20-year old potential franchise QB in favor of a running back, especially when your QB is a decrepit 37 year old bag of wet noodles. (4) and most importantly... wait for it...

The Giants are 1-5. They are terrible. Eli Manning (when he has time) can't complete a pass 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. They have 5 AAAA offensive linemen that can't open holes for their young stud RB. Their $90 million dollar diva wideout is morphing into a bigger douchebag daily. They are getting shredded at every single level of their defense. Saquon Barkley is a modern marvel, but he's not going to fix any of that.

If the Jets had made this pick, they would be LOLJETS'd out of existence. Instead, it's "but bro Saquon is awesome we'll get a QB next year Darnold has 6 INTs".

If the Giants evaluators truly thought the QBs in the this class were not good (I disagree with them, but hey), then I suppose the pick kinda sorta maybe ehhh makes a little more sense?  If they were high on Darnold, but went RB for any other reason, they should be mocked accordingly.

[Sonny Werblin]

The Giants 2019 starting QB will be............   Joe Flacco. Remember, you heard it here first.

[JoJoTownsell1]

26 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Eli looks completely lost out there. Yes the OL is bad, but a veteran with his experience should have no problem hitting hot routes and calling audibles on the line to combat it. That team does not look like they are behind him at all. Like it feels like he has no command as a leader of the team. They are a like young team with grandpa at the helm, they just don’t seem to relate at all and you can feel that on the field. Brady is old, but his history commands respect, and he’s still relatable to his players. Eli is like Mr Rogers. You love the guy, but you’re not gonna see young guys having that comraderie with the old geek in a cardigan.

Giants have weapons for sure. And Barkley opens things up for them. The Giants problems start at Eli, then OL, then D.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

100pct. And the bigger problem for them is that even if they move on from Eli and bring in a young QB how will that work with Odell. You can see with Darnold/Baker/Rosen/Allen that all rookie QBs, no matter how good they look at times, will struggle. How is odell going to put up with a young rookie QB handing the ball off to Barkley 20 times a game and making the same conservative passes Eli is making? 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

They are candidates for the number one pick. Who are the QB's coming out in next years draft?  Will they get a Franchise guy there?  It seems like something the Giants would luck right into. 

Right now the buzz is all about Justin Hebert from Oregon.  But it's a much thinner class at the top.  Maybe Drew Lock end up a top-10 pick as well.  It's early but I don't think it goes much deeper than that.  A lot of 2nd tier guys like Stidham so one of them may ascend.  

The interesting thing this year is that all of the bad teams are pretty much set at QB.  1-win teams include Falcons, Raiders, Colts, Cardinals, 49ers and Giants.  Of those teams, only the Giants would reasonably draft a QB.  So even if they don't finish worst in the league, they will probably be close enough to trade up to the top-3 slots to get a QB (assuming Bosa and Oliver can go 1-2 if those teams are in need of DL).  

The only other teams I think are a threat to the Giants in their pursuit of getting the top QB would be DEN and TB.  Both could lose 10 games this season and both should be very aggressive in pursuit of a QB.  Weird but it suddenly doesn't feel like half the league is searching for a better QB.  First time in a very long time.

[Thai Jet]

3 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Eli won two super bowls the old man might not be the best qb in the league but he isn't terrible. Football is a team sport and their defense is not playing well.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

Neither is their O line based on what I witnessed last nite.

[slats]

26 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Barkley at 2 would have been a good pick 40 years ago, during the OJ Simpson era

the game just isn't built that way anymore

 

that being said if the Giants go Darnold at 2 I'd have no problem going Barkley at 3 and giving Teddy Bridgewater the Darnold treatment. 

I think the Browns were originally hoping to take Barkley #1 and Mayfield #4, but that the Jets reported love for Mayfield made them change their plans. Had the Browns gone that route, I wonder if the Giants then would've taken Darnold. 

Talking to Giant fans before the draft -trying to gauge if they thought they'd take a QB- I found most fans wanted them to stick with Eli and take Barkley. I think McAdoo benching Eli last year really galvanized the fans behind him, and that may've affected the front office. 

Good for us. 

Also, if the draft went Mayfield-Darnold, we'd be watching either Rosen or Allen at QB here right now. 

[Green DNA]

I wonder if Joe Buck has managed to gargle the Barkley out of his mouth yet.  

The Giants (Gettleman) have made some mind numbingly stupid mistakes.  Assuming Eli could take them to the promised land, hiring a proven loser as head coach, passing on a potential franchise QB and throwing big bucks at a diva WR who is on the verge of an implosion.  What a circus. 

That being said, they will probably get a chance to try to rectify the QB mistake next year with a top 5 pick.

 

[LockeJET]

They didn't plan it this way but the Giants are going to get lucky here.There are some real good QB's coming out this year. They will end up getting one of them.

[GreenFish]

2 hours ago, mphtrilogy said:

Perfect chance for the GM to blow it up last year with a blank check from Fans and ownership

3 years of Eli (at best)

7-9 years of Barkley 

15 years of Sam or Rosen (if they hit)

 

I don't understand these GMs sometimes...

The problem for Gentleman was that he didn’t have a blank check. The Giants benched Eli last year and were ready to move on, but their fans stopped short of burning the city down. Giants fans believe in Eli. Even after yesterday you can see some of their fans saying it’s not Eli’s fault. It’s crazy to the rest of us watching. 

I don’t think Gettleman had a choice. Giving his circumstances, I don’t think he did a bad job. Almost the same situation the Jets were in year one of Macc. Ownership wanted him to go for it instead of blowing it up.

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

Also, if the draft went Mayfield-Darnold, we'd be watching either Rosen or Allen at QB here right now. 

 

Allen went 7, Rosen went 10. They didn't trade up to 3 for either of those guys. It's hypothetical, we'll never know, but also it would have been a waste of 3 2nd rounders.

[Philc1]

25 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Retrospect? Macadoo benched him last year for Geno. Everyone mocked Macadoo, turns out he was right. Eli was the problem. All Eli can do is air it out deep or dump it off. He is too scared to get to go through progressions. He has been toast for years and for a "winner" his career winning pct  is around .500. 

The Giants brought in two guys that needed to win now. An old GM on his last legs and a HC that failed in Cleveland and was desperate to win now. So they paid Odell a fortune despite being a head case (because he was  good boy in March/April) they passed on potential franchise QBs they gave an average LT a monster deal. 

This team has no cap space heading into next  year and need to pray they are in position to draft a QB high or else it will be an even worse disaster. 

The carpetbombing mcadoo took for benching Eli was asinine 

 

Fat suburban NJ housewives calling up wfan to bash McAdoo for benching their precious Eli during a meaningless game

[slats]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Allen went 7, Rosen went 10. They didn't trade up to 3 for either of those guys. It's hypothetical, we'll never know, but also it would have been a waste of 3 2nd rounders.

They traded up for a QB, they were leaving with a QB. They moved to #3 probably believing that Darnold-Rosen going 1-2 was the most likely scenario. That's what a lot of Jet fans believed at the time. 

[14 in Green]

57 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I think normally you would be right but this season the jets were predicted to be one of the worst teams in the nfl while the giants were at least considered a playoff team

 

This could be a decisive turning point in the history of both franchises.  The giants passed on the best college qb since Andrew Luck for a nice running back but in 5 years he will be done while Sam could be an elite qb next 15 years

I usually agree with your posts, but you're getting ahead of your skis with this one. Your heart is confusing potential and performance. "the best college QB since Andrew Luck"? Seriously? Did you watch his last college season? We don't even know yet if he's the best QB of this years draft. As far as Barkley, "a nice running back..."? How about an All Pro Rookie of the Year running back? It's now apparent the Giants were going to be terrible this year no matter who they picked, but they got the best player in the draft last year. They can get the QB next year. And guess what? Unlike Sam and the other QBs drafted last year, he'll come to a team loaded with weapons. Bottom line the Jets MIGHT have a FQB, but need a year to build an offense around him. The Giants have plenty of weapons in place already. Need a year to draft their QB. Both teams could use an OL upgrade, the Giants more so. Both teams will be in the same place basically next year once the Giants draft a QB.

[Philc1]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Allen went 7, Rosen went 10. They didn't trade up to 3 for either of those guys. It's hypothetical, we'll never know, but also it would have been a waste of 3 2nd rounders.

The jets wanted Rosen

[nj meadowlands]

 

[Sperm Edwards]

50 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Barkley at 2 would have been a good pick 40 years ago, during the OJ Simpson era

the game just isn't built that way anymore

I still can't believe they took a RB - no matter how talented - over a QB. Especially coming off a 3-win season in which their QBC-turned-OC-turned-HC felt he could rationalize ending Eli's 200+ start streak for Geno Smith. Then the next year you pass up on a QB to draft a RB, only to cut the 3rd round QB they just drafted the prior season, leaving Eli and a rookie who can't throw non-lollipops >15 yards?

They had a perfect out for a non-playoff showing after a slow start (if that would have even happened). They picked up a couple of OLmen (for better or worse), drafted another, and had serious receiving weapons. Their worst offseason crime on offense was betting too much on Flowers suddenly becoming something he wasn't since they drafted him. 

If they drafted a Darnold and even still started out 1-5 behind a decent offense and a crappy defense, then the fans shrug their shoulders at the record while salivating at an insta-replacement for Eli, whom they'll have for a long, long time. What's more, having a cheap starting QB like that for 4 seasons more than offsets the amount they just overpaid Solder, with plenty of change leftover. Had they gone with Darnold they could have even justified forking over a future 2nd rounder to Pittsburgh for Bell for their QB's first 2 or more seasons if they really wanted to.

I'm starting to think there aren't more than 5 smart GMs in the NFL, if there are even that many.

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I usually agree with your posts, but you're getting ahead of your skis with this one. Your heart is confusing potential and performance. "the best college QB since Andrew Luck"? Seriously? Did you watch his last college season? We don't even know yet if he's the best QB of this years draft. As far as Barkley, "a nice running back..."? How about an All Pro Rookie of the Year running back? It's now apparent the Giants were going to be terrible this year no matter who they picked, but they got the best player in the draft last year. They can get the QB next year. And guess what? Unlike Sam and the other QBs drafted last year, he'll come to a team loaded with weapons. Bottom line the Jets MIGHT have a FQB, but need a year to build an offense around him. The Giants have plenty of weapons in place already. Need a year to draft their QB. Both teams could use an OL upgrade, the Giants more so. Both teams will be in the same place basically next year.

Your argument hinges on one very risky assumption.  Sure, they may be in position to draft the first or second QB off the board.  But even that is historically around a 50% crapshoot in terms of whether he'll pan out as a true FQB.  If they whiff on the QB pick, they won't be in the same place at all.

[Sperm Edwards]

24 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

I wonder if Joe Buck has managed to gargle the Barkley out of his mouth yet.  

The Giants (Gettleman) have made some mind numbingly stupid mistakes.  Assuming Eli could take them to the promised land, hiring a proven loser as head coach, passing on a potential franchise QB and throwing big bucks at a diva WR who is on the verge of an implosion.  What a circus. 

That being said, they will probably get a chance to try to rectify the QB mistake next year with a top 5 pick.

 

That's a lot of room he's got, to fit both Barkley and Aikman in there at the same time.

#respect

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I still can't believe they took a RB - no matter how talented - over a QB. Especially coming off a 3-win season in which their QBC-turned-OC-turned-HC felt he could rationalize benching Eli for Geno Smith. Then the next year you pass up on a QB to draft a RB, only to cut the 3rd round QB they just drafted the prior season, leaving Eli and a rookie who can't throw non-lollipops >15 yards?

They had a perfect out for a non-playoff showing after a slow start (if that would have even happened). They picked up a couple of OLmen (for better or worse), drafted another, and had serious receiving weapons. Their worst offseason crime on offense was betting too much on Flowers suddenly becoming something he wasn't since they drafted him. 

If they drafted a Darnold and even still started out 1-5 behind a decent offense and a crappy defense, then the fans shrug their shoulders at the record while salivating at an insta-replacement for Eli, whom they'll have for a long, long time. What's more, having a cheap starting QB like that for 4 seasons more than offsets the amount they just overpaid Solder, with plenty of change leftover. Had they gone with Darnold they could have even justified forking over a future 2nd rounder to Pittsburgh for Bell for their QB's first 2 or more seasons if they really wanted to.

I'm starting to think there aren't more than 5 smart GMs in the NFL, if there are even that many.

Nfl is a good ol boys club with owners and certain GMs that’s why Matt Millen was able to have a GM position for 4 years

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, mphtrilogy said:

Perfect chance for the GM to blow it up last year with a blank check from Fans and ownership

3 years of Eli (at best)

7-9 years of Barkley 

15 years of Sam or Rosen (if they hit) 

 

I don't understand these GMs sometimes... 

 

7-9 years of Barkley is a very generous prediction.  Even if Barkley doesn't flame out like most RB's do, he might end up like Le'Veon Bell and force his way into free agency after his rookie deal expires so he can get WR1/QB money. 

[nj meadowlands]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

7-9 years of Barkley is a very generous prediction.  Even if Barkley doesn't flame out like most RB's do, he might end up like Le'Veon Bell and force his way off the Giants so he can get WR1/QB money. 

yeah 7-9 is an obscene assumption.  You're way more likely to get Arian Foster than you are Frank Gore.

And to your second point, Saquon's contract is for 4 years.  They're 1-5 now, and the season is over. Next year they will likely be bad again. So they'll have what, 2 years of him before he's getting handed the bag by some team?

[jgb]

They still have better odds to make playoffs than us in their rubbish division 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

They still have better odds to make playoffs than us in their rubbish division 

Huh?

[greenwichjetfan]

I'm putting my Giants hat on and rooting hard for them and Eli to turn this around a little the rest of this year. 7-9, 8-8 would be absolutely perfect. The dummy fanboys start talking about Eli positively again, they put a lot of run on Saquan, they knock themselves out of a top pick, and we get at least another year of Eli next season.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Huh?

Harrumph

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

They still have better odds to make playoffs than us in their rubbish division 

Eh, with Carson Wentz shaking off the rust, and the Eagles shaking off the Super Bowl hangover, I can see them running away with the division.  10-6 is all that would take, and I can definitely see Philly finishing the season going 7-3. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

yeah 7-9 is an obscene assumption.  You're way more likely to get Arian Foster than you are Frank Gore.

And to your second point, Saquon's contract is for 4 years.  They're 1-5 now, and the season is over. Next year they will likely be bad again. So they'll have what, 2 years of him before he's getting handed the bag by some team?

They have the fifth-year option, and then they can franchise him for two more years if they feel he's worth it and they can't work out a contract. At that point, he's 28 going on 29 and they can let him hit free agency and collect their third-round comp pick. 

Taking a RB high can be a smart move for a team that's already close. A team with a franchise QB in his prime. Getting seven years of elite RB play with a franchise QB is a decent formula. A RB high, though, isn't a foundation piece on a bad team. Even being able to control the player for seven years, it's too small a window. 

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Eh, with Carson Wentz shaking off the rust, and the Eagles shaking off the Super Bowl hangover, I can see them running away with the division.  10-6 is all that would take, and I can definitely see Philly finishing the season going 7-3. 

Yeah agree giants 2 percent chance for playoffs jets 0

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Yeah agree giants 2 percent chance for playoffs jets 0

Fine by me.  This year is all about Sam's development.  If we suck enough to get rid of Macc and Bowles and draft a franchise LT, that would be the perfect result heading into year 2.

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fine by me.  This year is all about Sam's development.  If we suck enough to get rid of Macc and Bowles and draft a franchise LT, that would be the perfect result heading into year 2.

So of course Trey Adams has season-ending back surgery and will probably return to school next year, taking the top LT off the draft board. 

If I recall correctly, that leaves Jonah Williams and Greg Little as the only other top prospects and I'm not at all the expert here but neither of them sound like sure things.  Then again, if we are drafting more towards the middle of the round and enough DL go early, one of them might drop and be a good value for us.