Murray measurements

[FO-Ti]

6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Well put. I just dont have the same confidence in him and how far along the mental part of QBing has developed for him considering the gimmick offense that he played in. Baker was a bit different in the sense that he naturally retained data well and was actually really smart on the whiteboard. You have to ask yourself are these the same things that Murray has in order to play QB on the pro level where everything is happening 10x faster.

I agree he's no where near Baker's level of being able to read defenses and make a quick decision with pressure in his face. He can tend to lock onto his initial read at times, although that's a problem with a lot of young QBs, but I think he's good enough at scanning the pocket that his elite athleticism will allow him to hide some of his flaws that a lesser athlete wouldn't be able to mitigate since you have to constantly account for his ability to escape the pocket.

The biggest problem with Kyler is if god forbid he suffers an injury to one of his legs, ala RG3 or Carson Wentz, I think you can expose some of his deficiencies as a passer much more easily but if your drafting him you would hope you never have to cross that bridge. 

[ChuckkieB]

As long as Murray or any of the other QB's create enough buzz for teams to get desperate enough to trade up to get them, it falls right into the Jets hands of trading down to accumulate picks.  I hope every QB at the combine crushes it.  

[JetFreak89]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

HATED Roger Vick.  Both as a Jet and a person.  Wanted them to break his leg every time he played.  My only point was that he was a similar type player, with a similar frame, who had a great arm.  I don't see that with Murray, despite his baseball prowess.

He's busting on you because you are probably referring to Michael Vick and not Roger Vick. Unless this is some kind of Ron Mexico type joke that I'm missing. 

[BroadwayRay]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

I posted this in draft forum as well but it fits here.  Just idle speculation.

Thinking back to the Eli/Rivers ordeal, what if ARI worked out a deal with OAK as follows.  ARI drafts Bosa.  If Murray falls to 4, they trade Bosa for #4 and #27.  ARI gets extra draft value for taking the guy they want.  Consolation prize if he gets nabbed before then, they still have Bosa.

But if ARI can pull that off, and trade Rosen for WAS #15, they get Murray, #15, #27 and still have #33 (top of 2nd round).  They could end up with Murray, OL help like Cody Ford (or Taylor), a pass rusher like Zach Allen at 27, and another really good player at 33 like Fant, Marquise Brown or more OL help like Dalton Risner.  Trading back to 4 to get Murray unlocks trading Rosen and nets them the two more picks as opposed to just keeping Bosa.  If they aren't sold on Rosen, that could be a killer day for them.

Oh and my selfish motivation for liking this deal?  Any team who wants Murray and sniffed this out would almost HAVE to trade up to 3 to get him

Or ... Ariz picks Bosa at #1, trades Rosen to Miami at #13 or Washington at #15, then trades said mid-#1 pick, along with pick #33 and their 2020 #1 to Jets for pick #3, where they pick Murray and end up with both a franchise QB and Bosa. I like that tons better!

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Unless this is some kind of Ron Mexico type joke that I'm missing. 

Duh

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

14 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

He's busting on you because you are probably referring to Michael Vick and not Roger Vick. Unless this is some kind of Ron Mexico type joke that I'm missing. 

Thanks for that.  Had a brain fart.  Looked at it twice, still didn't notice.  Wonder what kind of arm Roger had, anyway. @nycdan Maybe it is PTSD, or better yet Post Trumatic Jets Syndrome.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

40 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Jeez, Did you get this worked up when say, Darnold and Luck didn't throw?

The kid is going high in the 1st round, the only question is how high.

I also think you're putting way too much weight into some appearance for Pepsi he had to make on the Dan Patrick show, where he was put on the spot being asked questions that shouldn't and probably was told wouldn't be asked about his future plans

Serious about football? He's walking away from a top 10 signing bonus from the A's.

You know you're my guy, but wow do we disagree on this kid. LOL

We do.  It wasn't like he didn't know that he was going on the Dan Patrick Show.  It shouldn't have been a surprise. That wasn't the only time where I saw him speak and was less than impressive.  I hope that the Cardinals take him.  Can only help us.  Just don't think he's up to the hype, despite his lack of "awareness" and maturity. 

As far as the bonus goes, that money will still be there for him should this football thing  blow up. Hope you're right, seems like I was wrong about your boy Mayfield.  And the answer about Darnold is no.  I was already sold on him.  Then the throwing session in the rain only affirmed my feeling.  This kid is going to have to throw, sooner than later.  Why he doesn't want to do it now, is beyond me.

[nycdan]

13 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Thanks for that.  Had a brain fart.  Looked at it twice, still didn't notice.  Wonder what kind of arm Roger had, anyway. @nycdan Maybe it is PTSD, or better yet Post Trumatic Jets Syndrome.

All good.  I figured it was a slow enough time in the NFL that we could have some fun with it rather than my just being that guy that corrects peoples goofs.  Lord knows I have enough of those (or so my wife tells me).  As for Roger Vick, he was an awful pick but there were a few I Haight even more

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

17 minutes ago, nycdan said:

All good.  I figured it was a slow enough time in the NFL that we could have some fun with it rather than my just being that guy that corrects peoples goofs.  Lord knows I have enough of those (or so my wife tells me).  As for Roger Vick, he was an awful pick but there were a few I Haight even more

Yesterday when someone commented that ,if  we couldn't make fun of Christian Hackenberg as a busted Jet draft pick, then who could we make fun of, this very certain Mr Haight did come to mind.  I did take it in good humor, just didn't occur to me why.  As for the wife, got one of those too.  Think we all do.  Standard factory installed equipment, comes on all models, mandatory feature.  Thanks for the Roger Vick memory, I think...

[CTJetsFan]

This plus a report on FAN that Rosen has scrubbed his social media accounts of all things Cardinals seems to hint that they may have told Murray they were taking him #1.

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports Kyler Murray has told teams he will not participate in "any drills or testing" at the Combine.

We already knew Murray did not plan to throw this week, but it does not look like he will run, either. Pelissero reports Murray will only participate in the medical evaluation and interviews at the Combine and save his athletic testing for his Pro Day. This is a disappointing development for TV viewers, but Murray already did what he needed to do this week by measuring in at 5-foot-10, 207 pounds with 9 1/2-inch hands.

Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

Feb 28, 2019, 11:39 AM

[redlichtie]

3 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

I think Murray had some extra helpings of pasta last night.

Yeah ‘whatever you do Kyler, don’t take your usual post-breakfast dump”

[nycdan]

12 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

This plus a report on FAN that Rosen has scrubbed his social media accounts of all things Cardinals seems to hint that they may have told Murray they were taking him #1.

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports Kyler Murray has told teams he will not participate in "any drills or testing" at the Combine.

We already knew Murray did not plan to throw this week, but it does not look like he will run, either. Pelissero reports Murray will only participate in the medical evaluation and interviews at the Combine and save his athletic testing for his Pro Day. This is a disappointing development for TV viewers, but Murray already did what he needed to do this week by measuring in at 5-foot-10, 207 pounds with 9 1/2-inch hands.

Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

Feb 28, 2019, 11:39 AM

His IG does seem to be clear of any Cardinals images, but his Twitter account still has it on the header image.

https://twitter.com/josh3rosen

Curiouser and Curiouser.

[CTJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

His IG does seem to be clear of any Cardinals images, but his Twitter account still has it on the header image.

https://twitter.com/josh3rosen

Curiouser and Curiouser.

Good catch. Will be interesting too see if his Twitter account changes in the next few days

[Nixhead]

Murray is going #1. If your Kliff Kingsbury who do u want running your offense - Murray or Rosen? They will get a trading partner for Rosen - maybe the Giants. They might not get the Giants #1 this year but next years and maybe a fifth this year. Maybe he goes elsewhere than the Giants but I really think they go with Murray at the 1.

[14 in Green]

25 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

We do.  It wasn't like he didn't know that he was going on the Dan Patrick Show.  It shouldn't have been a surprise. That wasn't the only time where I saw him speak and was less than impressive.  I hope that the Cardinals take him.  Can only help us.  Just don't think he's up to the hype, despite his lack of "awareness" and maturity. 

As far as the bonus goes, that money will still be there for him should this football thing  blow up. Hope you're right, seems like I was wrong about your boy Mayfield.  And the answer about Darnold is no.  I was already sold on him.  Then the throwing session in the rain only affirmed my feeling.  This kid is going to have to throw, sooner than later.  Why he doesn't want to do it now, is beyond me.

So I guess it comes down to you being more concerned about his personality then I am. I honestly don't think you're being fair when you bring "lack of "awareness" and maturity" into it. I'm of the view that any organization in any pro sport will make sure they look into, and if necessary, take into account any such issues before they invest the type of capital required to obtain a player like this one. The Oakland A's already did, and bet millions on him.

As far as the "kid having to throw sooner or later. Why doesn't he do it now?" thing, is it really "beyond" you? So many top prospects (many of the QBs have been mentioned in this thread) choose to not either run, throw, etal. during the combine. When will he? At the Oklahoma Pro day, and probably a bunch of private workouts. He is on a ton of film, and teams will get plenty of chances to see him throw live for them.

Obviously there are things about this kid that rub you the wrong way, and that's fine. There are plenty of players I feel the same way about. Just like I'm sure you and I have certain players we like, and give every benefit of the doubt. The funny thing about that is in reality we really don't know these people, and are ill equipped to pass moral judgement on them unless legal issues or other red flag of some kind come into play. Yet we all do it. We read an article, watch an interview, whatever, then make up our mind.

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Nixhead said:

Murray is going #1. If your Kliff Kingsbury who do u want running your offense - Murray or Rosen? They will get a trading partner for Rosen - maybe the Giants. They might not get the Giants #1 this year but next years and maybe a fifth this year. Maybe he goes elsewhere than the Giants but I really think they go with Murray at the 1.

i think he goes first and that could produce a race to trade up to 2 to get haskins, or 3 if the 49ers take bosa.

[nycdan]

9 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think he goes first and that could produce a race to trade up to 2 to get haskins, or 3 if the 49ers take bosa.

I still think ARI could have a conditional trade in place to take Bosa and move down a few slots if Murray is still on the board.  Get Raiders 4 and 27 for Bosa.  I assume if this is their plan, they don't trade Rosen until after that happens so they would need a second conditional trade set up, maybe Rosen to NYG or WAS.  I have a hard time seeing another team moving up for Murray in the top-3 with Haskins on the board but I admit I may be biased towards the bigger QBs.

[varjet]

This was the beauty of Darnold-he was a very good HS guard.  He can move and throw laterally.  

Rosen was an old school drop back QB.  There is no way KK finds a way to play with him.

NEP just won the SB with the ultimate dropback statute running the ball.  It is doable.  The Cardinals will trade Rosen, but at a discount.  They will not get the draft pick they paid for him.  

[UntouchableCrew]

I'm surprised. I thought he struggle to come in at 5'9" and would have a tough time cracking 200 pounds.

Definitely good for him and teams in the top 5 who want to trade down (I think I know one...)

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

I still think ARI could have a conditional trade in place to take Bosa and move down a few slots if Murray is still on the board.  Get Raiders 4 and 27 for Bosa.  I assume if this is their plan, they don't trade Rosen until after that happens so they would need a second conditional trade set up, maybe Rosen to NYG or WAS.  I have a hard time seeing another team moving up for Murray in the top-3 with Haskins on the board but I admit I may be biased towards the bigger QBs.

AZ would still sweat it out that SF and NYJ don't trade out to a team that wants murray, since both of these teams are set at qb.  

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

AZ would still sweat it out that SF and NYJ don't trade out to a team that wants murray, since both of these teams are set at qb.  

Acknowledged.  I just wonder (as will everyone) whether a team moving up there is doing it for Murray or Haskins.  It's a gamble, but one that pays a free first round pick if it pays off.  But they have to be okay with Rosen and Bosa instead of Murray and whoever they get for Rosen if it blows up.  Not for me to say.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

So I guess it comes down to you being more concerned about his personality then I am. I honestly don't think you're being fair when you bring "lack of "awareness" and maturity" into it. I'm of the view that any organization in any pro sport will make sure they look into, and if necessary, take into account any such issues before they invest the type of capital required to obtain a player like this one. The Oakland A's already did, and bet millions on him.

As far as the "kid having to throw sooner or later. Why doesn't he do it now?" thing, is it really "beyond" you? So many top prospects (many of the QBs have been mentioned in this thread) choose to not either run, throw, etal. during the combine. When will he? At the Oklahoma Pro day, and probably a bunch of private workouts. He is on a ton of film, and teams will get plenty of chances to see him throw live for them.

Obviously there are things about this kid that rub you the wrong way, and that's fine. There are plenty of players I feel the same way about. Just like I'm sure you and I have certain players we like, and give every benefit of the doubt. The funny thing about that is in reality we really don't know these people, and are ill equipped to pass moral judgement on them unless legal issues or other red flag of some kind come into play. Yet we all do it. We read an article, watch an interview, whatever, then make up our mind.

 Maybe the answer to the not throwing question is detailed in the post below.  As for the Oakland A's point, it has merit. But realize this.  Being a baseball player and a Football Quarterback are two entirely different things.  It is far more acceptable, and less  impactful  to be a "flake" on a baseball diamond than it is on a football field, especially at quarterback. Your own experience should tell you this.

I am not saying he is a bad kid.  Being a primadonna and a bad interview doesn't make him a criminal or a bad person.  It does make him a less than great prospect at the quarterback position, drafted at the top of his class in the NFL, in my opinion.  I am just glad that we have Sam.  His height, his arm, his maturity, and most of all his disposition.

38 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

This plus a report on FAN that Rosen has scrubbed his social media accounts of all things Cardinals seems to hint that they may have told Murray they were taking him #1.

 

[14 in Green]

47 minutes ago, nycdan said:

His IG does seem to be clear of any Cardinals images, but his Twitter account still has it on the header image.

https://twitter.com/josh3rosen

Curiouser and Curiouser.

Wow. The plot is certainly thickening.

Just throwing something out there with this.... Do you think we'd be dealing with these type of Murray rumors if the Jets had hired Klingsbury as their new HC?

This place would be exploding, LOL. 

@joenamathwouldn'tcry curious what you think also...

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Wow. The plot is certainly thickening.

Just throwing something out there with this.... Do you think we'd be dealing with these type of Murray rumors if the Jets had hired Klingsbury as their new HC?

This place would be exploding, LOL. 

@joenamathwouldn'tcry curious what you think also...

Could be part of why KK to the Jets never got any traction but I see no way he would get anything but laughed at for even bringing that up here.  Darnold has already answered the question about whether he can transition to the NFL (much more than Rosen at this point).  

[Augustiniak]

20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Acknowledged.  I just wonder (as will everyone) whether a team moving up there is doing it for Murray or Haskins.  It's a gamble, but one that pays a free first round pick if it pays off.  But they have to be okay with Rosen and Bosa instead of Murray and whoever they get for Rosen if it blows up.  Not for me to say.

i think KK took the job with the proviso he gets his own qb.  so now the AZ gm say rosen is the qb 'for now'.  he's gone before the draft IMO.

whether a team wants haskins enough to trade up to 2, that's a TBD and best case is that he kills it at the combine w/o murray and vaults into the top 3 discussion.  if someone trades up to 2 to get him then jets can have bosa.  if 49ers take bosa, jets will hopefully get interest in the pick w/o demanding king's ransom so they can trade back.  but yeah, i think AZ takes a qb, probably murray.  

[New York Mick]

3 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Not necessarily if K Murray goes number 1 overall. I can’t see two Qb’s going in the top three .

I would do cartwheels if two QBs did go in the top three. That means one top two defenders drop to their pick.

Arizona isn’t taking him

[14 in Green]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Could be part of why KK to the Jets never got any traction but I see no way he would get anything but laughed at for even bringing that up here.  Darnold has already answered the question about whether he can transition to the NFL (much more than Rosen at this point).  

Agree about Darnold, so it would be a hard sell to put it mildly. I'm talking about KK maybe wanting Murray running his offense as opposed to Darnold running it.

I know its far fetched, but imagine our trade possibilities?

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Agree about Darnold, so it would be a hard sell to put it mildly. I'm talking about KK maybe wanting Murray running his offense as opposed to Darnold running it.

I know its far fetched, but imagine our trade possibilities?

Zero.  Because any GM that traded a QB we've waited 50 years for after one promising season to roll the dice on a much riskier proposition wouldn't be able to earn a living wage in fast food service except maybe in the city he traded Darnold to.  That's if he wasn't hit by an RV in the parking lot on his last day out of the stadium.  Not saying who might be driving that RV or anything...

[#27TheDominator]

INNOVATION: Hire a Big 12 coach that has never had a winning record in the Big 12 and was just fired.  Don't just give him an OC position, but make him head coach.  Then allow him to hand-pick the #1 overall instead of dealing with the top 10 pick you traded up for last year. 

Presumably they covered this stuff in the interview.  If he came in, said I'm dumping Rosen and drafting a 5'10" baseball player at 1 overall, I can't imagine the Cards would have been thrilled.

[Bruce Harper]

4 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Due to his piss-poor attitude I have the feeling he's going to drop Brady Quinn Style

Quinn dropped because he couldn't play.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, FO-Ti said:

I never referenced any specific height in my post and Kyler isn't sub 5'10 so who are you talking about exactly?

5'10" is the shortest QB to play in history.

Your exact quote is this:  I would be willing to wager that we will see much more QBs of this prototype in the near future. 

If by prototype you mean athletic, mobile and short, my comment will stand.  There is a reason why guys run rampant in the College ranks, and then can't make an NFL team.  Height matters at the QB position.  Guys like Russell Wilson have shown you don't need to be 6'4", but you also can't be 5'9".

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

44 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Wow. The plot is certainly thickening.

Just throwing something out there with this.... Do you think we'd be dealing with these type of Murray rumors if the Jets had hired Klingsbury as their new HC?

This place would be exploding, LOL. 

@joenamathwouldn'tcry curious what you think also...

I think that the  Cardinals did a huge disservice to Josh Rosen this past season.  They essentially threw him to the sharks, and added chum to the water to boot.  How they subjected a rookie quarterback to that  "offensive" line was inexcusable.  I know that Rosen has holes in his game and doesn't get rid of the ball quickly, but David Johnson averaged 3.6 ypc  behind those stiffs. Steve Wilks deserved to be fired. In the Cardinals games I watched, I felt sorry for the kid.  It was ugly.

As far as Klingsbury  goes, it does worry me that this would be a "thing", if the Jets had hired him.  He seems to be inflexible and convinced in "his views, and his way". That turned me off to him during the process, and this "situation" is an affirmation of those reservations.  And we thought that Gase was volatile. Haha. By the way I just read the GM,  Steve "I'm ok to drive"  Keim's  comments, in regards to Rosen, made at the Combine.  Ominous.  I think this is going to happen.  Will be very interesting, and good for us.  Stay tuned.

[JetFreak89]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm surprised. I thought he struggle to come in at 5'9" and would have a tough time cracking 200 pounds.

Definitely good for him and teams in the top 5 who want to trade down (I think I know one...)

Seems like he's been paying some extra visits to the ol' chiropractor. I seriously wonder if any of these "too short to play in the NFL" guys find some crazy ways to stretch an inch or two out of their frame before the combine.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, JetFreak89 said:

Seems like he's been paying some extra visits to the ol' chiropractor. I seriously wonder if any of these "too short to play in the NFL" guys find some crazy ways to stretch an inch or two out of their frame before the combine.

As far as I can tell there are three options outside of surgery which is done in stages and takes a long time.  He'd never be ready for the draft.  The other three options are the "Teeter hang ups", the Medieval Rack, or they could tie him up to two horses headed in different directions.  Somehow, I don't see him agreeing to any of these options.

[CTJetsFan]

55 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

5'10" is the shortest QB to play in history.

Your exact quote is this:  I would be willing to wager that we will see much more QBs of this prototype in the near future. 

If by prototype you mean athletic, mobile and short, my comment will stand.  There is a reason why guys run rampant in the College ranks, and then can't make an NFL team.  Height matters at the QB position.  Guys like Russell Wilson have shown you don't need to be 6'4", but you also can't be 5'9".

Doug Flutie was listed as 5'10 but I don't think he was actually that tall