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I think the not throwing is a combination of his agents advice and him wanting to be wooed.  Kid's an attention whore.  Not a good sign for someone who mumbles and can't put  together a complete sentence. He'll definitely throw before the draft. If he doesn't I don't see him being as serious about football as he claims.  At that point it's a big red flag. 

1'' in height is not earth shattering news.  If you want a 5'10" quarterback, good luck to you.  I wouldn't want him.  Roger Vick had a great arm.  This kid doesn't seem to have that.  Missing some "zip" on his fastball.

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So with this news on Murray, we might have a couple of scenario's that play out very nicely for the Jets.

1. Murray & Haskins go 1-2, which would leave Bosa to us at 3; or

2. One of the QB's goes in the top two along with Bosa, which would leave the #3 spot as a most desirable slot to try and trade up to.

The news on Murray today is nothing short of fantastic for the Jets.

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7 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I think the not throwing is a combination of his agents advice and him wanting to be wooed.  Kid's an attention whore.  Not a good sign for someone who mumbles and can't put  together a complete sentence. He'll definitely throw before the draft. If he doesn't I don't see him being as serious about football as he claims.  At that point it's a big red flag. 

1'' in height is not earth shattering news.  If you want a 5'10" quarterback, good luck to you.  I wouldn't want him.  Roger Vick had a great arm.  This kid doesn't seem to have that.  Missing some "zip" on his fastball.

Roger Vick.  LOL.  You, my friend, have Jets draft PTSD.  

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41 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think klingsbury took the job b/c of murray and the 1st pick in the draft.  he needs his qb to run his system and rosen is not that guy.

Agreed. If Murray has beentold he's being taken #1... all you can do is damage that. Don't give fans, GM and Owner a reason to override Klingsbury.

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1 minute ago, 32EBoozer said:

Agreed. If Murray has beentold he's being taken #1... all you can do is damage that. Don't give fans, GM and Owner a reason to override Klingsbury.

it would also help explain why he bailed on the As so quickly.  he's going to AZ, the cards will deal rosen for as much as they can and move on.

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9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Roger Vick.  LOL.  You, my friend, have Jets draft PTSD.  

HATED Roger Vick.  Both as a Jet and a person.  Wanted them to break his leg every time he played.  My only point was that he was a similar type player, with a similar frame, who had a great arm.  I don't see that with Murray, despite his baseball prowess.

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Just now, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

HATED Roger Vick.  Both as a Jet and a person.  Wanted them to break his leg every time he played.  My only point was that he was a similar type player, with a similar frame, who had a great arm.  I don't see that with Murray, despite his baseball prowess.

Umm...still not getting it.  It's worse than I thought :D

 

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39 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He turned down millions of dollars from an MLB team after being drafted 9th overall... what more commitment do you want?

Actually, an article explained that Murray, if drafted in top 10 will make more money upfront than he would by playing MLB.  Murray got a $4.5m bonus from A's, but will make more than that guaranteed if he's drafted top 10.  Plus, Murray would have to go through arbitration eligible years in MLB before he can get a big payday.

Long term, Murray could make more money in MLB (longer careers), but for up-front money he'll make more in NFL as 1st rounder.

So, no, giving up the bonus from the A's doesn't show "commitment" since he could be more financially awarded up-front in NFL

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51 minutes ago, FO-Ti said:

Not good for who? Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? Sure I'd agree there but the guy has arguably more mobility than Michael Vick who was 6'0 and is a much more complete passer, comparing him to other traditional drop back passers is silly. With the NFL adopting more spread offenses with the QB getting the ball from the shotgun 90+% of the time I would be willing to wager that we will see much more QBs of this prototype in the near future. 

The distance between 5’10 to 6’0 is a major difference in QBing. The fact of the matter is, it’s very, very rare that a 5’10 QB wins in this league, is that a risk that a NFL GM takes being that 1.)He played in a conference where defense is a myth and 2.) he’d risking his job and setting his franchise back five years with this near unprecedented total wildcard.

But maybe you are right. What do I know of the future? But if it did, my guess would be that there winds up being a healthy medium # between 6’0 and 5’10 where QB’s stop having sustainable success. 5’10 is the lowest it’ll get and probably will have the lowest positive results compared to future 5’11 and 6’0 Qb’s. 

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That Dan Patrick interview was downright terrible...but other than that, I haven't heard or read anything else about people criticizing his attitude.

As for not throwing at the combine....here's a few others that didn't throw at the combine:

Luck

Griffin

Stafford

Ryan

If the guy can play, he'll get drafted high regardless of what he actually does (or doesn't do) this week.

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1 hour ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

I say Gruden takes him and he becomes a Raider with their late-round first. And they trade Derek Carr to the skins or the Vagiants

I say he goes to Cardinals, and they trade Rosen to the redskins. Qb goes in the top three Raiders won’t trade back.  ( Bosa, Williams, and Allen ) one drops to them.

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8 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

I say he goes to Cardinals, and they trade Rosen to the redskins. Qb goes in the top three Raiders won’t trade back.  ( Bosa, Williams, and Allen ) one drops to them.

I think the giants should trade a future first for Rosen he’s the ideal successor to Eli

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

There’s plenty of #tape of Murray throwing. What he runs will be more important. If he can still move with the added bulk he’s definitely going 1.

i am still willing to die on this hill.....its march and he is now a top 5ish pick....with 2 months to go and the hype machine getting in gear (him being 5'10 with decent size hands)...its only a matter of time.

 

 

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I posted this in draft forum as well but it fits here.  Just idle speculation.

Thinking back to the Eli/Rivers ordeal, what if ARI worked out a deal with OAK as follows.  ARI drafts Bosa.  If Murray falls to 4, they trade Bosa for #4 and #27.  ARI gets extra draft value for taking the guy they want.  Consolation prize if he gets nabbed before then, they still have Bosa.

But if ARI can pull that off, and trade Rosen for WAS #15, they get Murray, #15, #27 and still have #33 (top of 2nd round).  They could end up with Murray, OL help like Cody Ford (or Taylor), a pass rusher like Zach Allen at 27, and another really good player at 33 like Fant, Marquise Brown or more OL help like Dalton Risner.  Trading back to 4 to get Murray unlocks trading Rosen and nets them the two more picks as opposed to just keeping Bosa.  If they aren't sold on Rosen, that could be a killer day for them.

Oh and my selfish motivation for liking this deal?  Any team who wants Murray and sniffed this out would almost HAVE to trade up to 3 to get him :)

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1 hour ago, FO-Ti said:

With the NFL adopting more spread offenses with the QB getting the ball from the shotgun 90+% of the time I would be willing to wager that we will see much more QBs of this prototype in the near future. 

What, QB's in the 5'8" - 5'10" range?  I'll take that bet. 

Actually, not only will I take that bet I will just go on and declare myself the winner of that bet.

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1 hour ago, nico002 said:

He turned down millions of dollars from an MLB team after being drafted 9th overall... what more commitment do you want?

He turned down 9 mil and no guarantees that he'll ever see the majors or another contract.  And gave that up to possibly be the 1st QB selected and a bigger contract with a spot on a NFL roster guaranteed with a chance to start this year. 

He didnt give up much IMO, especially if he loves football.

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Best news for us potentially trading down. Between Murray and Haskins, there will probably be two teams looking to trade up.

I’m sure Washington would love to leapfrog NYG for one of these guys.

Bengals, and Dolphins are the 2 other teams to look out for. Jacksonville is in win now mode and I think are set on getting a vet like Foles or Bridgewater.

The problem for us are the 2 teams picking right after us, Oakland and Tampa Bay. Neither seem to be moving on from their QB. Arians was hired to win now and with Jameis. They’re not rebuilding. Oakland seems content with Carr.

Teams will be looking to move ahead of NYG at 6, but will they have to get to 3 for Haskins or Murray? We’ll see. 

I would love Cincy or Washington’s 1st in 2020 over NYG though. I think those teams are going to be awful next year. 

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4 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

What, QB's in the 5'8" - 5'10" range?  I'll take that bet. 

Actually, not only will I take that bet I will just go on and declare myself the winner of that bet.

Well, considering the way college football is played you will be seeing more teams recruiting great athletes in the 5'10 range to play QB when in the past that was frowned upon. If Baker/Murray/Wilson do well then NFL teams will start looking for the old school prototypical 6'3 QB. Of course teams will always prefer a bigger stronger QB because of durability issues and because it will always be easier for a QB to be taller. But the days of guys like Murray/Wilson/mayfield being marginalized are over. 

Again, he said he will bet that there are "much more" QBs of this type. I assume he meant much more than what we have seen in the past. Not that the majority of QBs will be sub-6ft. 

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57 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

 The distance between 5’10 to 6’0 is a major difference in QBing. The fact of the matter is, it’s very, very rare that a 5’10 QB wins in this league, is that a risk that a NFL GM takes being that 1.)He played in a conference where defense is a myth and 2.) he’d risking his job and setting his franchise back five years with this near unprecedented total wildcard.

But maybe you are right. What do I know of the future? But if it did, my guess would be that there winds up being a healthy medium # between 6’0 and 5’10 where QB’s stop having sustainable success. 5’10 is the lowest it’ll get and probably will have the lowest positive results compared to future 5’11 and 6’0 Qb’s. 

Without getting into a CFB discussion, I'll admit the Big 12 is known for not playing defense but no conference outside the Big 10 and SEC put out consistently great units on that side of the ball. Iowa State, TCU, and K-State are pretty decent and believe it or not but Army has had a real solid defense the past couple of years. He struggled at times against Alabama but it certainly wasn't a bad game by him and still managed to put up 400 yards with 3 TDs with his best weapon in Brown at less than 100%.

I don't think the difference between 5'10 and 6'0 for mobile QBs is anywhere near as extreme as the difference between 6'0 and 6'2 for pocket passers, he's going to have to move around to create passing lanes regardless. Kyler is no doubt an anomaly and any team that drafts him would have to take that risk of being the initial team that takes a sub 6'0 QB in the top 10 but you make exceptions for special talent and I believe some team will view him as just that.

I definitely agree with your last point, there will still be a limit to how short a QB can go and in an ideal world Kyler would be a tad bit taller but I just fail to believe that Russell Wilson would be impacted much, if at all, if he suddenly lost half an inch of height so there is some model to project for him. I agree that the taller the better, no matter who the QB is, but when the biggest and just about only knock on your game is your height, then as long as you aren't sub 5'9 I think you can have some success with today's offenses.

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16 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

What, QB's in the 5'8" - 5'10" range?  I'll take that bet. 

Actually, not only will I take that bet I will just go on and declare myself the winner of that bet.

I never referenced any specific height in my post and Kyler isn't sub 5'10 so who are you talking about exactly?

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4 minutes ago, FO-Ti said:

Without getting into a CFB discussion, I'll admit the Big 12 is known for not playing defense but no conference outside the Big 10 and SEC put out consistently great units on that side of the ball. Iowa State, TCU, and K-State are pretty decent and believe it or not but Army has had a real solid defense the past couple of years. He struggled at times against Alabama but it certainly wasn't a bad game by him and still managed to put up 400 yards with 3 TDs with his best weapon in Brown at less than 100%.

I don't think the difference between 5'10 and 6'0 for mobile QBs is anywhere near as extreme as the difference between 6'0 and 6'2 for pocket passers, he's going to have to move around to create passing lanes regardless. Kyler is no doubt an anomaly and any team that drafts him would have to take that risk of being the initial team that takes a sub 6'0 QB in the top 10 but you make exceptions for special talent and I believe some team will view him as just that.

I definitely agree with your last point, there will still be a limit to how short a QB can go and in an ideal world Kyler would be a tad bit taller but I just fail to believe that Russell Wilson would be impacted much, if at all, if he suddenly lost half an inch of height so there is some model to project for him. I agree that the taller the better, no matter who the QB is, but when the biggest and just about only knock on your game is your height, then as long as you aren't sub 5'9 I think you can have some success with today's offenses.

Well put. I just dont have the same confidence in him and how far along the mental part of QBing has developed for him considering the gimmick offense that he played in. Baker was a bit different in the sense that he naturally retained data well and was actually really smart on the whiteboard. You have to ask yourself are these the same things that Murray has in order to play QB on the pro level where everything is happening 10x faster.

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1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I think the not throwing is a combination of his agents advice and him wanting to be wooed.  Kid's an attention whore.  Not a good sign for someone who mumbles and can't put  together a complete sentence. He'll definitely throw before the draft. If he doesn't I don't see him being as serious about football as he claims.  At that point it's a big red flag. 

1'' in height is not earth shattering news.  If you want a 5'10" quarterback, good luck to you.  I wouldn't want him.  Roger Vick had a great arm.  This kid doesn't seem to have that.  Missing some "zip" on his fastball.

Jeez, Did you get this worked up when say, Darnold and Luck didn't throw?

The kid is going high in the 1st round, the only question is how high.

I also think you're putting way too much weight into some appearance for Pepsi he had to make on the Dan Patrick show, where he was put on the spot being asked questions that shouldn't and probably was told wouldn't be asked about his future plans

Serious about football? He's walking away from a top 10 signing bonus from the A's.

You know you're my guy, but wow do we disagree on this kid. LOL :box:

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