Siemian to Jets

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I don't care about camp arms throwing to the future meat cutters of America.

Signing Siemian means we will not be retaining Webb.

Which is ok, just a little disappointing.  Would have liked to see Webb play as the #2 with a chance to hang on in preseason.  Now that's doubtful.

Siemian is a pretty bad QB.  But at least he's cheap'ish I suppose.  I don't really expect him to step in and win, same as I wouldn't have expected McCown to do so.  So it's not a terribly exciting move IMO.  Young and bad instead of old and bad, but cheaper.

Guess that hope that comes with an unknown (Webb) is still a powerful driver for me vs. the known failed meh guy (Siemian), but I can certainly understand the move.  NFL teams always want a guy with experience as the #2, even if they sucked in that experience (and Siemian was pretty sucky tbh).

Sidegrade IMO.

I think Webb can still stick.  Practice squad?  He might play really well in TC and pre-season and beat out Siemian. 

Frankly, I have a pretty good idea what Siemian brings to the table... no idea about Webb though.

[Philc1]

Just now, RoadFan said:

I think Webb can still stick.  Practice squad?  He might play really well in TC and pre-season and beat out Siemian. 

Frankly, I have a pretty good idea what Siemian brings to the table... no idea about Webb though.

Webb = Hack 2.0

 

He’s horrible I don’t know if he should even be around as a 3rd string

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I don't care about camp arms throwing to the future meat cutters of America.

Signing Siemian means we will not be retaining Webb.

Which is ok, just a little disappointing.  Would have liked to see Webb play as the #2 with a chance to hang on in preseason.  Now that's doubtful.

Siemian is a pretty bad QB.  But at least he's cheap'ish I suppose.  I don't really expect him to step in and win, same as I wouldn't have expected McCown to do so.  So it's not a terribly exciting move IMO.  Young and bad instead of old and bad, but cheaper.

Guess that hope that comes with an unknown (Webb) is still a powerful driver for me vs. the known failed meh guy (Siemian), but I can certainly understand the move.  NFL teams always want a guy with experience as the #2, even if they sucked in that experience (and Siemian was pretty sucky tbh).

Sidegrade IMO.

Why wouldn't we keep until final cut down?  The less Sam plays outside the 3rd preseason game the better.

If we can have a legit backup play with the starters in games 1 and 2 and a guy like webb instead of a first year, college FA, thats better for the team.  And if webb is just ok, then hopefully we get him on the practice squad again.

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There was also a stretch where he looked like a solid starter.  I'll have to go back to his game logs but I vaguely remember a stretch (meaning more than just 2 or 3 games) where he was possibly looking like the longterm answer for Denver.  Not sure what happened after that but I like the same things that most people here are saying....

1. Starting experience (20+ games)

2. Still young

3. Cheap

4. Has shown an ability to lead and win some games

Nobody is expecting a Wentz/Foles situation here but we could have done far worse than Siemian.

Question - What does this say about the development (or lack thereof) of Davis Webb if he can't even earn a #2 job after two seasons?

I remember watching Simieon's first start and he was able to keep his eyes downfield and also adjust to make a couple throws in the face of the rush.  The issue with him is that he doesnt have any elite skills, so in order for him to be successful you need to have a great line, good defense and playmakers.

Thats why he is a good backup and not a great starter.  If he needs to play 3 games if Sam were to go down, he can hopefully take care of the ball, get us in the right plays, and not totally implode.  And for $2 million thats a good deal for the team

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There was also a stretch where he looked like a solid starter.  I'll have to go back to his game logs but I vaguely remember a stretch (meaning more than just 2 or 3 games) where he was possibly looking like the longterm answer for Denver.  Not sure what happened after that but I like the same things that most people here are saying....

1. Starting experience (20+ games)

2. Still young

3. Cheap

4. Has shown an ability to lead and win some games

Nobody is expecting a Wentz/Foles situation here but we could have done far worse than Siemian.

Question - What does this say about the development (or lack thereof) of Davis Webb if he can't even earn a #2 job after two seasons?

You're a level headed guy, and I'm not looking to argue here, but has Webb even gotten a chance to compete for the #2 job this year?

With a new CS that hasn't seen him even take a snap in practice yet, don't you think it might be premature to start the "what does that say about Webb" stuff?

I'd be shocked if this type of signing affects Webb that much. What were the odds the Jets would only have two young kids as the only QBs on their roster?

[thebuzzardman]

Jets make news with cheap deal involving Siemian, Kraft of the Patriots makes news with cheap deal involving s----. 

 

 

[BCJet]

7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

You're a level headed guy, and I'm not looking to argue here, but has Webb even gotten a chance to compete for the #2 job this year?

With a new CS that hasn't seen him even take a snap in practice yet, don't you think it might be premature to start the "what does that say about Webb" stuff?

I'd be shocked if this type of signing affects Webb that much. What were the odds the Jets would only have two young kids as the only QBs on their roster?

Webb's scouting report is that he has a great arm, good work ethic, but coming from spread offenses he is basically Geno (minus the off the field idiocy) in that he can hit an open WR, but struggles with the speed of the game to "throw guys open".

That comes with time for even good players, and with live game reps (even if its preseason).  He is likely a true developmental QB who needs a couple more years to develop into a backup, which could be why we only gave Simieon a 1 year deal.  Who knows, but either way, he now has competition to drive him from today until final cuts.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I think that's a generous grade given no Edge rusher and no Center which were obviously the biggest gaps on the roster.  Bell, Crowder, Mosely, the trade for Osemele were all good upgrades....but they were upgrading positions from like a C to a B+ or an A.  At Edge and Center we still have either D players or Incompletes IMO.

My grade for FA would be an Incomplete.

Thats on you for thinking every position can and should be upgraded in the opening of FA.  Thats not a plan.  

 

[Integrity28]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats on you for thinking every position can and should be upgraded in the opening of FA.  Thats not a plan.  

 

The two biggest needs were center and edge. Guard, #3 WR, RB, and ILB are all low cost-ceiling positions that we paid a premium for, and the 2 primary needs are still unmet.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

#3 WR

Jameson Crowder who could easily be our #1 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Jameson Crowder who could easily be our #1 

lol wut?

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

lol wut?

#3 WR you said I replied Jameson Crowder who could easily be our #1 WR for all we know this season. 

[Jolot]

Most useless topic ever ...if this guy takes one meaningful snap in his Jets career it will be tragic . 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

You're a level headed guy...

Link?

 

Quote

and I'm not looking to argue here, but has Webb even gotten a chance to compete for the #2 job this year?

With a new CS that hasn't seen him even take a snap in practice yet, don't you think it might be premature to start the "what does that say about Webb" stuff?

I'd be shocked if this type of signing affects Webb that much. What were the odds the Jets would only have two young kids as the only QBs on their roster?

Here is where reading what someone wrote rather than hearing me say it results in the misunderstanding.  I'm not knocking Webb.  I'm asking a legitimate question.  What does the signing of Siemian mean when the Jets have another QB on the roster who has been in the NFL for 2 years?  Does it mean the Jets already know that Webb's ceiling is as 3rd QB?  Does it mean they see many years of development required just to get him to QB2, etc?

Please take my question literally because I agree with you.....the new CS hasn't seen him yet.  But the new CS hasn't seen a lot of guys on the Jets in detail and has decided to retain, extend or not cut many of them.  I would think/hope that after a year with the Jets our front office, GM, scouts, etc. would have enough information to share about Webb with the new staff (internal scouting and pro player development) just like they're sharing info about Benjamin Braden, Neville Hewitt, Brent Qvale, etc.

[jetstream23]

50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats on you for thinking every position can and should be upgraded in the opening of FA.  Thats not a plan.  

 

1. Never said that every position should be upgraded in the opening of FA.

2. We have a few key, known positions that absolutely need to be upgraded and that SHOULD be the plan or we have a new level of incompetence in the front office.  It's one problem to have a GM who can't solve roster issues.  It's a whole other issue if he doesn't even recognize the roster issues.

Remember, I said my grade was Incomplete.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Link?

 

Here is where reading what someone wrote rather than hearing me say it results in the misunderstanding.  I'm not knocking Webb.  I'm asking a legitimate question.  What does the signing of Siemian mean when the Jets have another QB on the roster who has been in the NFL for 2 years?  Does it mean the Jets already know that Webb's ceiling is as 3rd QB?  Does it mean they see many years of development required just to get him to QB2, etc?

Please take my question literally because I agree with you.....the new CS hasn't seen him yet.  But the new CS hasn't seen a lot of guys on the Jets in detail and has decided to retain, extend or not cut many of them.  I would think/hope that after a year with the Jets our front office, GM, scouts, etc. would have enough information to share about Webb with the new staff (internal scouting and pro player development) just like they're sharing info about Benjamin Braden, Neville Hewitt, Brent Qvale, etc.

Jet, I think all it means is that a new coaching staff, with a second year quarterback, would be well advised to go into a season with a backup quarterback with 34 starts in the league, rather than a neophyte who has never started a single game.

  For the cost of 2 million dollars it is a smart investment, and has little reflection or bearing on the skills or future of Davis Webb.  It's as simple as that.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The two biggest needs were center and edge. Guard, #3 WR, RB, and ILB are all low cost-ceiling positions that we paid a premium for, and the 2 primary needs are still unmet.

And it doesnt change my point.  You look at the improvements, not an entire wish list that you come up.  No one fills all those needs in a FA spending spree.

The idea that ILB is low cost-ceiling position is interesting though.  Love to know who started that 

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

1. Never said that every position should be upgraded in the opening of FA.

2. We have a few key, known positions that absolutely need to be upgraded and that SHOULD be the plan or we have a new level of incompetence in the front office.  It's one problem to have a GM who can't solve roster issues.  It's a whole other issue if he doesn't even recognize the roster issues.

Remember, I said my grade was Incomplete.

1.  No, you gave them an incomplete because we didnt upgrade every position you listed that needed to be upgraded.  Kind of exactly the same thing, dont you think?

2. And I agree.  Still doesnt mean every one of those positions, even if recognized and on their wish list can be fixed in FA.  More my point, you can only sign whos available and who wants to come to you.  You dont just snap your fingers and poof who you want to fill a position of need is available and willing to come to you.  And as I said, its the first stage of FA, the offseason is not over yet

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No one fills all those needs in a FA spending spree.

Step 1. “Sure we have holes, but we’ve got $100 million in cap space!”

Step 2. “Oh relax, free agency hasn’t even officially started yet”

Step 3. “I’m glad they didn’t go crazy on the first day!”

Step 4. “Actually, you can pick up the real value signings a few days in.” 

Step 5. “Actually, free agency is hard.”

[GREENBEAN]

Because the backup wants the abiity to move on if a starting spot opens up next season

And if he signs somewhere it can count toward a company pick.
Im all about them there comp picks these days


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[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

#3 WR you said I replied Jameson Crowder who could easily be our #1 WR for all we know this season. 

He’s 5’9.. not going to be our X wide receiver 

[Thai Jet]

7 hours ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Good move, great price 

Agreed I would have been happy with him or Mike Glennon.

[Thai Jet]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Step 1. “Sure we have holes, but we’ve got $100 million in cap space!”

Step 2. “Oh relax, free agency hasn’t even officially started yet”

Step 3. “I’m glad they didn’t go crazy on the first day!”

Step 4. “Actually, you can pick up the real value signings a few days in.” 

Step 5. “Actually, free agency is hard.”

[Thai Jet]

3 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

You're a level headed guy, and I'm not looking to argue here, but has Webb even gotten a chance to compete for the #2 job this year?

With a new CS that hasn't seen him even take a snap in practice yet, don't you think it might be premature to start the "what does that say about Webb" stuff?

I'd be shocked if this type of signing affects Webb that much. What were the odds the Jets would only have two young kids as the only QBs on their roster?

22-1 by my calculations

[Thai Jet]

3 hours ago, RoadFan said:

I think Webb can still stick.  Practice squad?  He might play really well in TC and pre-season and beat out Siemian. 

Frankly, I have a pretty good idea what Siemian brings to the table... no idea about Webb though.

Sadly no one knows what Webb can do. I hope the CS gives him a shot at the #2 spot.

[Jetsfan80]

He beat Sanchez in an open QB competition in Denver in 2016, prompting Sanchez’s release. So we know he’s definitely better than Sanchez, and we’re paying him very little.

 

What’s not to like?

[Wonderboy]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He beat Sanchez in an open QB competition in Denver in 2016, prompting Sanchez’s release. So we know he’s definitely better than Sanchez, and we’re paying him very little.

 

What’s not to like?

Mind boggling to think Macc paid McCown 15 million for 2 scrub years and he signs Siemen for 2 million to back up Sam. Has Macc turned the corner ?

[WayneChrebet80]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There was also a stretch where he looked like a solid starter.  I'll have to go back to his game logs but I vaguely remember a stretch (meaning more than just 2 or 3 games) where he was possibly looking like the longterm answer for Denver.  Not sure what happened after that but I like the same things that most people here are saying....

1. Starting experience (20+ games)

2. Still young

3. Cheap

4. Has shown an ability to lead and win some games

Nobody is expecting a Wentz/Foles situation here but we could have done far worse than Siemian.

Question - What does this say about the development (or lack thereof) of Davis Webb if he can't even earn a #2 job after two seasons?

He had a very solid first year in Denver (2016, his second year in the NFL) and then regressed pretty drastically the following season as the talent around him faded.

[Integrity28]

11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

#3 WR you said I replied Jameson Crowder who could easily be our #1 WR for all we know this season. 

Except that he’s not. I’m almost 100% sure you’re one of the guys that has historically argued we need a “true #1” receiver when discussing measurable in the past.

[Integrity28]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And it doesnt change my point.  You look at the improvements, not an entire wish list that you come up.  No one fills all those needs in a FA spending spree.

The idea that ILB is low cost-ceiling position is interesting though.  Love to know who started that 

Nobody “started that”. If you look at historical data (aka: facts) it proves out that the ILB in a 3-4 historically doesn’t command a high cost as compared to other LB roles in myriad defenses.

I’m sorry to again be countering you with fact-based arguments. I know how well that went the other day.

[Integrity28]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Step 1. “Sure we have holes, but we’ve got $100 million in cap space!”

Step 2. “Oh relax, free agency hasn’t even officially started yet”

Step 3. “I’m glad they didn’t go crazy on the first day!”

Step 4. “Actually, you can pick up the real value signings a few days in.” 

Step 5. “Actually, free agency is hard.”

Step 6. “You made up that list in your head, so you’re wrong!”

[Apache 51]

16 hours ago, Losmeister said:

as opposed to a career crappy cheerleader

Win, lose, or draw always better than our morgue.

[Jet Nut]

38 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Nobody “started that”. If you look at historical data (aka: facts) it proves out that the ILB in a 3-4 historically doesn’t command a high cost as compared to other LB roles in myriad defenses.

I’m sorry to again be countering you with fact-based arguments. I know how well that went the other day.

Really?  Ray Lewis, Junior Seau, Singletary, Butkus, Urlacher, Carson, Z Thomas, Lambert, Mills....

The inside LB is the QB of the defense but here he's isnt important so those without a clue repeat.  Might be the 2nd most important position on the field but you'll counter that, once again showing you have no idea how the game is played and why. 

Thanks for clearing it up in your typically arrogant and totally lost way.  Dont talk football, attack at every turn

Fact based argument, LOL

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He beat Sanchez in an open QB competition in Denver in 2016, prompting Sanchez’s release. So we know he’s definitely better than Sanchez, and we’re paying him very little.

 

What’s not to like?

I watched the preseason game that caused Sanchez to get cut from the broncos.  I forgot what team they were playing but after the ball was snapped an Sanchez took a 3 step drop a DT managed to get by the center (might have been Paradis) Sanchez bobbled the ball in his hands and basically just handed it to the DT 

 

Kubiak facepalmed

[DMan77]

For only 2 million? That's a good deal.