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More Draft Talk: Top 3 players you want and dont not want the Jets to draft

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Quinnen Williams - one year wonder that disappeared on the biggest stage in the college playoffs.  While Quinnen was ok at rushing the passer at Alabama surrounded by all world talent, he's not going to be a pass rusher in the NFL.  He'll be a run stuffer and that's not the type of DT you take at #3 overall.  Quinnen might end up being a good to great player in the NFL but more in the mold of a clog in the line and ingulf the ball carrier rather than an attacking and pursuing the QB, which is what the Jets need and the real value of having the #3 overall pick.

Sorry Jif but this "opinion" and  conclusion is so erroneous that it defies logic.

He's a one year "wonder" based on the fact that he only started for one year of college football.  He was a recruit who was asked to add 20plus pounds in order to fill the position that the coaching staff had him targeted for.  He played for one of the premier football programs in the nation. In his one year as a starter he was the dominant defensive player for that program, the Outland Trophy Winner, and a consensus All American. This is a deficiency?  Please.

"He's going to be a run stuffer"?  Based on what, exactly?  In his lone year as a starter he was anything but a run stuffer.  He had eight sacks and 19.5 tackles for a loss.  Hardly the work of a run stuffer.  He is extremely fast and agile.  He moves the line of scrimmage backwards and is a disruptive force at the point of attack.  Run stuffers don't do that.  He is exactly the type of player that attacks, pursues, and engulfs the ball carrier or quarterback. BEHIND THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE.  

The one point you make that has any merit, is the game against Clemson, the National Champion.  He did not have a great game.  Not one player on Alabama did.  They got their asses kicked.  So what?  If you base your opinion of any particular player based on a single game, you likely will make a bad judgement on that player, as you have done here.  If you scrutinize the careers of any of your "do wants", I am sure you will find at least one poor performance for each.

Seems like you have been listening to the "legend" put forth by some posters here on JetNation.  That is unfortunate.  Quinnen Williams is a special player.  He is not Leonard Williams, Vernon Gholston, or Dewayne Robertson.  If we do indeed draft him you will see it first hand.  If he goes elsewhere, you will see it second hand.  He will be a great player in the NFL.

If it's any consolation, I do like the rest of your list, and most of your "takes" are accurate.

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Top 3 I want: Burns, Allen, Dillard

Top 3 highly rated players I don’t want: Bosa (injury), Hockenson (no more TEs in the first), Q (see comment on TE)

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1 minute ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry Jif but this "opinion" and  conclusion is so erroneous that it defies logic.

He's a one year "wonder" based on the fact that he only started for one year of college football.  He was a recruit who was asked to add 20plus pounds in order to fill the position that the coaching staff had him targeted for.  He played for one of the premier football programs in the nation. In his one year as a starter he was the dominant defensive player for that program, the Outland Trophy Winner, and a consensus All American. This is a deficiency?  Please.

"He's going to be a run stuffer"?  Based on what, exactly?  In his lone year as a starter he was anything but a run stuffer.  He had eight sacks and 19.5 tackles for a loss.  Hardly the work of a run stuffer.  He is extremely fast and agile.  He moves the line of scrimmage backwards and is a disruptive force at the point of attack.  Run stuffers don't do that.  He is exactly the type of player that attacks, pursues, and engulfs the ball carrier or quarterback. BEHIND THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE.  

The one point you make that has any merit, is the game against Clemson, the National Champion.  He did not have a great game.  Not one player on Alabama did.  They got their asses kicked.  So what?  If you base your opinion of any particular player based on a single game, you likely will make a bad judgement on that player, as you have done here.  If you scrutinize the careers of any of your "do wants", I am sure you will find at least one poor performance for each.

Seems like you have been listening to the "legend" put forth by some posters here on JetNation.  That is unfortunate.  Quinnen Williams is a special player.  He is not Leonard Williams, Vernon Gholston, or Dewayne Robertson.  If we do indeed draft him you will see it first hand.  If he goes elsewhere, you will see it second hand.  He will be a great player in the NFL.

He's a one year wonder because he's a one year wonder.  Not sure why that needs an explanation.  If you only have 1 year of production, you're a one year wonder.  Seems pretty simple to me.  

He was nowhere to be found vs. Oklahoma as well.  The 2 biggest games of his life vs. high powered offenses and Quinnen Williams was a ghost.  

There was nothing about Quinnen's game that suggest he's going to be a dominant pass rusher.  8 sacks doesnt suggest that, that's for sure.  Especially considering he played mostly DE.  He's a run stuffer and maybe he's elite at it at the next stage but that's not what the Jets need nor is it the value of the 3rd overall pick. 

Every point I make has merit, I'm elite at this sh*t.  My track record speaks for itself.  I dont base my opinions on others, I base them on what I see watching more college Football than I do the NFL.  

It defies logic to me that you have 1 year of tape on a kid and he's "special player"...how so?  What did he do that was so special that isnt done every single year at Alabama?  Did he break records or anything like that?  Didnt think so.   Special players dont shrink on the big stage, they shine.  And Williams was a ghost. 

He'll be a run stuffer in the NFL.  If you think that's worth the #3 overall pick, have at it.  I dont want anything to do with him.

 

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9 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Top 3 I want: Burns, Allen, Dillard

Top 3 highly rated players I don’t want: Bosa (injury), Hockenson (no more TEs in the first), Q (see comment on TE)

When was the last time the Jets took a TE in the 1st round?  Kyle Brady?   That was 25 years ago.  lol

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Just now, JiF said:

When was the last time the Jets took a TE in the 1st round?  Kyle Brady?   That was 25 years ago.  lol

Dustin Keller, 2008. 

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My top want in the 1st round is a trade down to accumulate picks.

If that doesn't happen, I want:

1 - Bosa

2 - Allen

3 - ANY player other than an interior lineman

 

What I don't want - ANY interior lineman

 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Top 3:

Ed Oliver 

Josh Allen -

TJ Hockenson - I Get your reasoning but I just don't think you pass up the 2 above for TJ

Top 3 dont want:

Nick Bosa - He and his bro seem to have some injure issues so I get this

Quinnen Williams - 

Jonah Williams - 

Players I hope the Jets can draft at some point:

Deebo Samuel WR - dudes electric.  I'd love to see him be Sam's shiny new weapon.  Absolute big play waiting to happen.

Jalen Hurd WR - love his versatility and see him really being a force in the NFL

Darrell Henderson RB - game breaker depth at the RB position.

Yodny Cajuste OT - potential tackle in the 3rd round

Ben Banogu  Edge - potential mid round pass rush sleeper, solid athlete, quick first step.

WANTs @ 3

Ed Oliver - freak athlete 

Josh Allen 

Honestly this is kind of it 1 of these should be there.

DO NOT WANT @ 3

Rashan Gary 

Johan Williams

Jawaan Taylor

DK METCALF * bonus* 

Unlikely these guys go at 3 but these are my nightmare scenarios

 

Players I hope we can get maybe....

N'Keal Harry WR / Jalen Hurd WR 

Deebo Samuel WR 

Eric McCoy / Elgton Jenkins

Josh Jacobs RB ( probably no shot ) / Darrell Henderson / Benny Snell Jr

Cody Ford -  Oline / Dalton RIsner

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Dustin Keller, 2008. 

For some reason I thought he was a 2nd round pick.  I think it's because I was banging the table for either Desean Jackson or Jordy Nelson who did go in the 2nd and I thought we passed on them for Keller...which we did, apparently, just that we took Keller in the 1st.

Keller wasnt a terrible pick...just we passed on beast WR's that was a huge need at the time. 

 

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Top 3 players

1. More Picks... Period stop... (Like asking for more wishes)

2. Bosa

3. Q

Everything is an epic failure... There are 2 top tier players in the draft and 1 will fall to the Jets... What ransom can they get for the one that drops or for a QB... 

Thats it:

Players they should not select at 3:

1. Anyone besides Bosa/Q

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2 minutes ago, Stark said:

WANTs @ 3

Ed Oliver - freak athlete 

Josh Allen 

Honestly this is kind of it 1 of these should be there.

DO NOT WANT @ 3

Rashan Gary 

Johan Williams

Jawaan Taylor

DK METCALF * bonus* 

Unlikely these guys go at 3 but these are my nightmare scenarios

 

Players I hope we can get maybe....

N'Keal Harry WR / Jalen Hurd WR 

Deebo Samuel WR 

Eric McCoy / Elgton Jenkins

Josh Jacobs RB ( probably no shot ) / Darrell Henderson / Benny Snell Jr

Cody Ford -  Oline / Dalton RIsner

 

 

 

Sign me up for no on Rashan Gary or DK Metcalf as well!!!

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The only players I don't want are Bosa or Dillard. 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Typically at this point I'm dialed into the player I want badly.  This year has been a little more challenging than most because of the uncertainty of where the top 5 players will fall and the varying opinions of the top prospects.  So for the first time in a very long time, I'm not all in on one particular prospect vs. another.  Therefore, I've come up with my top 3 wants and my top 3 do not wants all under the assumption we stay at 3.  For fun; I'll also add my biggest top wants that can be had after round 1.

Top 3:

Ed Oliver - I think Ed Oliver it the best player in the draft.  He's an explosive all world athlete who produced out of position while in college and is going to give opposing OL's nightmares in the NFL.  Pairing him with Leo would create a very disruptive force on the interior of the DL.  Anderson-Oliver-Leo-Jenkins in the 4 man fronts could really wreak havoc or you could potentially run a Anderson-Leo-McClendon-Oliver and be even more dangerous at attacking the QB.

Josh Allen - IMO the most versatile player in the draft.  To have put up the sacks numbers he did, in the SEC, while dropping back in coverage 30% of his snaps is mind blowing.  The fact he can play the run, rush the passer and cover a TE down field makes him the biggest swiss army knife in the draft.  A guy like Greg Williams could move him around like a chess piece and keeping an opposing offense completely fixated on where he's lined up.  Williamson, Mosley, Allen and Jenkins would make a formidable LB'er core, if not one of the better units in the league.

TJ Hockenson - wait what?  A TE at #3 overall?  That's insane and I know it and I dont care.  He's the best non-QB offensive prospect in this draft.  He's a QB's best friend and can help the run game immensely.  I've seen him compared to Jason Witten, Travis Kelce and even some folks calling him the Gronk.  TE is becominging increasingly important to an offense each season.  Gase likes to run 2 TE sets.  The combo of Herndon and Hockenson could be deadly; think murderer and Gronk back in the day on those scumbags cheaters teams.  

Top 3 dont want:

Nick Bosa - the injury history is real and a huge concern because it's a bloodline thing.  His brother cant stay healthy too.  3 seasons into the NFL and he's only completed 1 full season.  I have HUGE concerns taking a player at #3 overall who's had 2 season ending injuries and one being a lingering type in the groin.  Those never fully heal.  Further, he's was just ok at rushing the passer.  He never put up big numbers and the other scary part of his game is that he doesnt contribute at all to the run game or anything else for that matter.  He's a one trick pony and if that trick gets figured out in the NFL; see Vic Beasley and the trash he's become.  

Quinnen Williams - one year wonder that disappeared on the biggest stage in the college playoffs.  While Quinnen was ok at rushing the passer at Alabama surrounded by all world talent, he's not going to be a pass rusher in the NFL.  He'll be a run stuffer and that's not the type of DT you take at #3 overall.  Quinnen might end up being a good to great player in the NFL but more in the mold of a clog in the line and ingulf the ball carrier rather than an attacking and pursuing the QB, which is what the Jets need and the real value of having the #3 overall pick.

Jonah Williams - he's a guard.  If you dont think reach is a real concern playing T in the NFL, than I got news for you...they rarely work.  You dont take Guards at #3 overall.  If we are going to reach for OL, I'd rather it be Jaawan Taylor...but even he's not worthy of the #3 overall pick.

Players I hope the Jets can draft at some point:

Deebo Samuel WR - dudes electric.  I'd love to see him be Sam's shiny new weapon.  Absolute big play waiting to happen.

Jalen Hurd WR - love his versatility and see him really being a force in the NFL

Darrell Henderson RB - game breaker depth at the RB position.

Yodny Cajuste OT - potential tackle in the 3rd round

Ben Banogu  Edge - potential mid round pass rush sleeper, solid athlete, quick first step.

I promised myself a few years back that I would never participate in this type of thread ever again. The reasoning is one of the three or more likely the top one that I didn't want to draft, we always ending up drafting. So I'm not jinxing it ever again.

BTW I like your list with the exception of Jonah Williams. 

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4 minutes ago, RobR said:

I promised myself a few years back that I would never participate in this type of thread ever again. The reasoning is one of the three or more likely the top one that I didn't want to draft, we always ending up drafting. So I'm not jinxing it ever again.

BTW I like your list with the exception of Jonah Williams. 

Lol...me too.  Ever since absolutely despising Calvin Pryor and to see him selected by the Jets, I’ve stopped making a do not draft list.  

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36 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry Jif but this "opinion" and  conclusion is so erroneous that it defies logic.

He's a one year "wonder" based on the fact that he only started for one year of college football.  He was a recruit who was asked to add 20plus pounds in order to fill the position that the coaching staff had him targeted for.  He played for one of the premier football programs in the nation. In his one year as a starter he was the dominant defensive player for that program, the Outland Trophy Winner, and a consensus All American. This is a deficiency?  Please.

"He's going to be a run stuffer"?  Based on what, exactly?  In his lone year as a starter he was anything but a run stuffer.  He had eight sacks and 19.5 tackles for a loss.  Hardly the work of a run stuffer.  He is extremely fast and agile.  He moves the line of scrimmage backwards and is a disruptive force at the point of attack.  Run stuffers don't do that.  He is exactly the type of player that attacks, pursues, and engulfs the ball carrier or quarterback. BEHIND THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE.  

The one point you make that has any merit, is the game against Clemson, the National Champion.  He did not have a great game.  Not one player on Alabama did.  They got their asses kicked.  So what?  If you base your opinion of any particular player based on a single game, you likely will make a bad judgement on that player, as you have done here.  If you scrutinize the careers of any of your "do wants", I am sure you will find at least one poor performance for each.

Seems like you have been listening to the "legend" put forth by some posters here on JetNation.  That is unfortunate.  Quinnen Williams is a special player.  He is not Leonard Williams, Vernon Gholston, or Dewayne Robertson.  If we do indeed draft him you will see it first hand.  If he goes elsewhere, you will see it second hand.  He will be a great player in the NFL.

If it's any consolation, I do like the rest of your list, and most of your "takes" are accurate.

 

FDE58E0F-79CB-4348-BD12-D322C9876549.jpeg

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I think I’d literally cry if my team drafted Rashan Gary

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Players they need to draft after the 2nd round:

Tall Possession WR... AKA, 

Butler, Boykin, Whiteside

Hurd or Sills late...

Center....

Jenkins

RB....

Trayveon Williams

CB....

David Long

Edge

Chase Winovich

OT

Yodny Cajuste

 

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3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Lol...me too.  Ever since absolutely despising Calvin Pryor and to see him selected by the Jets, I’ve stopped making a do not draft list.  

Pryor was also my number one as I'm sure you remember. Then I followed that up a couple of years later with Darron Lee. All I have to do is start typing Quenn......and he will be the pick.

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think I’d literally cry if my team drafted Rashan Gary

Gary would have scored a 9 on the wonderlich if he could have spelled 'cry'

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I think the OP's analysis is very impressive and makes alot of sense, and I agree that either Oliver or Allen could be the missing piece to the Jets defense.  

I don't think the 3-4 is etched in stone though.  

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

He's a one year wonder because he's a one year wonder.  Not sure why that needs an explanation.  If you only have 1 year of production, you're a one year wonder.  Seems pretty simple to me.  

He was nowhere to be found vs. Oklahoma as well.  The 2 biggest games of his life vs. high powered offenses and Quinnen Williams was a ghost.  

There was nothing about Quinnen's game that suggest he's going to be a dominant pass rusher.  8 sacks doesnt suggest that, that's for sure.  Especially considering he played mostly DE.  He's a run stuffer and maybe he's elite at it at the next stage but that's not what the Jets need nor is it the value of the 3rd overall pick. 

Every point I make has merit, I'm elite at this sh*t.  My track record speaks for itself.  I dont base my opinions on others, I base them on what I see watching more college Football than I do the NFL.  

It defies logic to me that you have 1 year of tape on a kid and he's "special player"...how so?  What did he do that was so special that isnt done every single year at Alabama?  Did he break records or anything like that?  Didnt think so.   Special players dont shrink on the big stage, they shine.  And Williams was a ghost. 

He'll be a run stuffer in the NFL.  If you think that's worth the #3 overall pick, have at it.  I dont want anything to do with him.

 

You know as well as I do that the term "one year wonder" is always used in the derogatory sense. 

I'm confused that you find Ed Oliver such an attractive prospect, based mostly on athleticism, while you minimize Quinnen Williams, who is nearly as athletically gifted, and has superior stats garnered against superior competition.  I agree that Oliver will be a great player at the next level.  Where we differ is that I think that Williams will be better.  Time will tell.

How do you explain that 40% of the tackles made by this "run stuffer" were made for a loss or sack.  That is elite.  Don't know where you got the DE impression from either.  The genesis of his play was from the middle of the line, not the end.

The argument about records is also silly.  How many records are broken in a players single season of play?  You can be sure that had he returned to Alabama for a junior season, his stats would be every bit as impressive as they were this season.

As elite as you are in regards to the college game, drafts and players, I am sure your "track record" is less than 100%.  I think you got this one wrong.  Agree to disagree.  Like I said, time will tell.

 

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39 minutes ago, JiF said:

When was the last time the Jets took a TE in the 1st round?  Kyle Brady?   That was 25 years ago.  lol

lol. It's been a while but I'm still haunted by thought of a TE in the first. We took Dustin Keller in the 1st and Jace Amaro in the 2nd recently. They were suppose to be receiving weapons. More than anything, Im tired of hearing about the TE that's going to be this mismatch weapon. It seems like every year experts pick some TE to be the next big thing. If we really want a TEjust get a guy like Josh Oliver in the 3rd or 4th or some other TE. Is there that much of a difference between Josh Oliver and Fant? 

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Likes and Do not likes are related to the value of the player as to where they may be picked.

Likes:

Garrett Bradbury

Iosua Opeta

Andre Dillard

Tytus Howard

Trey Pipkins

Dexter Lawrence

Jerry Tillery

Gerald Willis

Brian Burns

Chase Winovich

Hakeem Butler

Dislikes:

Quinnen Williams

DK Metcalfe

Rashan Gary

Jachai Polite

Greedy Williams

All Quarterbacks

 

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Wants

1-Bosa

2-Oliver

3-Allen

dont want

anu trade that doesn’t include a 2020 1 and a 2019 1 and 2.

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Want - 

J Williams 

Q Williams 

Hockenson

Oliver

Sweat

Burns

Ford

Brown

Bush

Bradbury

Don't Want -

Allen

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It's weird, a few weeks ago Ed Oliver wasn't really on my radar but I'm buying the hype. I think he'd be my top pick. Frankly, I think I want Oliver, Allen or a trade down.

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8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What I’d like to see from the Jets in this draft is to show a little backbone and innovation. They’re a moribund franchise that nobody respects and I think we all thought that might change when we drafted the big, young QB. But it hasn’t, and that’s because the owner and GM are tools that could **** up a wet dream. Show some life. Don’t be sitting there at 9:30 tomorrow night mumbling about how “WethoughtQuinnenwasthebestplayerandwewereveryexcitedwhenhewasavailableand.” It’s boring. Nobody believes Maccagnan and nobody believes in Maccagnan and he’s a terrible spokesman for the franchise. Get out there at 3 and do something for the fans. Trade out. Draft Oliver. Draft Hockenson or DK Metcalf. Whatever. Don’t just sit there like they do every year and wait for other GMs to allow you to draft a guy they didn’t want, only to find out three or four years later why that scrub was available in the first place. Bottom line, don’t do Maccagnan stuff. Do whatever it was they did last year when they moved up for Darnold. Send Maccagnan to the West Coast while the few smart people in the building make some sh*t happen to move the team forward—not incrementally by drafting safeties and lumbering DEs—but by having some guts and putting guys on the roster who can play exciting football. Don’t be soft. Don’t be weak. Reach for the brass ******* ring for once in your life, Jets.

But his jacket 

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45 minutes ago, JiF said:

For some reason I thought he was a 2nd round pick.  I think it's because I was banging the table for either Desean Jackson or Jordy Nelson who did go in the 2nd and I thought we passed on them for Keller...which we did, apparently, just that we took Keller in the 1st.

Keller wasnt a terrible pick...just we passed on beast WR's that was a huge need at the time. 

 

 

It was the Gholston draft.  They traded back up into the 1st to get Keller.  Kind of a weird deal.  They sent their 2nd and a 4th to the Packers.  The Packers used the 2nd on Jordy Nelson.  The 4th  was the pick they got for Vilma.  They traded their 4th, which was like 10 spots higher for that 4th (Dwight Lowery) and the 5th they used on Erik Ainge.  As I recall we were happy that we got the extra year of contract.  The rules were different then, but I think it was still 5 for 1sts and 4 for 2nd and later. 

Nelson vs. Keller doesn't look great, but the deal seems fair enough. 

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56 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Dustin Keller, 2008. 

Yes but with the 30th pick in rd 1..

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20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Likes and Do not likes are related to the value of the player as to where they may be picked.

Likes:

Garrett Bradbury

Iosua Opeta

Andre Dillard

Tytus Howard

Trey Pipkins

Dexter Lawrence

Jerry Tillery

Gerald Willis

Brian Burns

Chase Winovich

Hakeem Butler

Dislikes:

Quinnen Williams

DK Metcalfe

Rashan Gary

Jachai Polite

Greedy Williams

All Quarterbacks

 

This is great.  Polite in the late 3rd could be ok.  

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in order I’d take quinnen Williams, Josh Allen, Jawaan Taylor, jonah Williams, Ed Oliver. Don’t want bosa, would prefer to trade back and take offensive lineman.

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