Breer On Douglas Hiring

[varjet]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

When did we hear all of this about KC when the went a similar route firing Dorsey?  Dorsey was also fired after FA and the draft.  And Dorsey was a well respected GM, who seemingly didnt earn his firing.  Where were all the AReid is taking control, AReid stabbed Dorsey in the back talk, all unlike what went on with Macc.

How about all the snickering about the dysfunctional Texans?  They not only did the same exact thing as the Jets, they fired their GM after the Jets finished their GM search, pretty much ensuring that they would get to choose from our leftovers.  And they did their strange firing only one season into their GMs regime, after a pretty successful season.

Im still waiting for all the panel discussions about how dysfunctional the Texans are.  How stupid it was to fire a GM after allowing him to resign their FAs, sign any outside FA and run the draft. 

 

People are not talking about Dorsey.  There is something funny going on with him.  I think he was fired for personal reasons.  

[ljr]

Good read, thx!

Hemie Elhal being top 3 guys in the organization ... i had no idea anything about this guy


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Whatever your opinion is about Gase, and you've been very clear about it, the man is well respected in league circles. He was Sean McVay before Sean McVay. The difference might be that McVay has Goff, while Gase had Tannehill, Cutler, and Moore. You like the Douglas hire? Cool! Me too! You do realize that there's no way the New York Jets attract Joe Douglas here without Adam Gase in place, right? If the Jets hire Rhule, their alleged first choice, this team has a first time NFL head coach and Mike Maccagnan as GM. I like this better. 

We'll see how Gase does here with Darnold. I'm pretty excited about it. But when I said top tier coaching staff, I meant the trifecta of Gase, Williams, and Boyer. I feel very good about this staff. Good brains at the top of all three units. 

Whatever your opinion is about Gase, and you've been very clear about it, the man is well respected in league circles

As is Todd Bowles

there's no way the New York Jets attract Joe Douglas here without Adam Gase in place, right? 

I call BS here - for the money they paid him they could have attracted just about anyone

 

Bottom line is, I really hope I'm wrong - that a guy that you're calling Sean McVay-like has put up 3 years of bottom 7 offenses and a losing record - was solely bad because he didn't have quality QB play. I would like nothing more than to be wrong about the guy.....

I like just about everything else the Jets have done this offseason.

[nycdan]

I look at it this way.

2 years ago, if you asked me what I was most unhappy about with the organization I would have ranked them  QB, HC, GM.

Since then, we have absolutely upgraded all three.  I'm not sure Gase will be a great HC, or even a very good one, but I'm pretty confident he is a significant upgrade from Bowles.  And I don't think McCown -> Darnold or Macc -> Douglas needs any debate.

When I compare the two rosters, I am hard pressed to find a single player in 2019 that isn't at least as good going into the season as his 2017 counterpart.  And some are truly substantial improvements (on paper), such as:

RB: Forte -> Bell

TE: Nobody -> Herndon

WR: Anderson/Kearse/Kerley -> Anderson/Crowder/Enunwa

C: Wesley Johnson -> Pretty much any four-limbed mammal

ILB: Lee/Davis -> Mosley/Williamson

 

But for me, Douglas indicates that we should expect the trend towards an improved roster should only continue now.  And hopefully not having to overcome a truly horrible HC and below-average QB puts us so far ahead in the potential department that I find myself looking forward to the season quite a bit more than I did since 2011 or so.  I think he's the icing on the cake of a really good offseason.   And yes, while Macc had a lot to do with it, I think the lack of valuation of OL was his Achilles heel and if Douglas corrects that, then we are in good shape for the near future.

[UnknownJetFan]

4 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

It can’t be understated how big of a hire this is. It’s the first time since Parcells where a GM or HC hire of ours was someone everyone wanted and respected. The comparisons to Ballard are vitally important (connections to bring in a top front office) and relate back to what Pauline tweeted, “this team needs a complete overhaul top to bottom.” Douglas will rebuild the front office and out qualified people in charge. People will want to work here, for Douglas.

This is the biggest hire we’ve had in a long time. I love that his contract extends further than Gase’s (who I’m optimistic about, but definitely not as fully sold on).

And in comparison's to Bill Parcells, his success was mainly with FA, but drafting was very poor overall. There was no FQB during his tenure and we only had superb QB play for the 98 season. We have an opportunity with a hopefully solid FQB and someone at GM that will not only handle FA well, but also drafting, to maybe sustain success long enough to get a good level of consistency i.e winning. Lets hope it works out that way.  

[slats]

45 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

there's no way the New York Jets attract Joe Douglas here without Adam Gase in place, right? 

I call BS here - for the money they paid him they could have attracted just about anyone

Call whatever you like. There is no way that Joe Douglas is the Jets' GM today if Gase isn't the head coach. Plain and simple. I'll stand by that one. That's about as close to fact as speculation can get. Without Gase, this team still has Maccagnan. 

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, slats said:

Call whatever you like. There is no way that Joe Douglas is the Jets' GM today if Gase isn't the head coach. Plain and simple. I'll stand by that one. That's about as close to fact as speculation can get. Without Gase, this team still has Maccagnan. 

I tend to think so as well. The timing of this sudden turnaround in CJ paying attention to the GM's performance, starting with the Gase hiring, is a bit too convenient. 

More likely he suddenly started paying attention to the performance and evaluating it more critically after the 'equal standing' HC Gase drew attention to it.

Equally convenient is that the new GM has such close ties to the new HC, and that Gase not Heimerdinger was made the interim GM. 

Agree with you in that it's not that we couldn't have tossed money at Douglas if Gase wasn't here; of course we could have. It's that we wouldn't have been looking for a new GM in the first place. Not yet, anyway. That would have waited until January 2020 at the earliest, when multiple other teams would have had an opening -- an opening that wasn't already locked into a new HC hire for the upcoming 2-3 seasons.

We got a second shot to up our offer to Douglas, for his compensation and agreement on how much we'd pay his staff, precisely because there wasn't a handful of teams looking for a new GM this year. 

[slats]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We got a second shot to up our offer to Douglas, for his compensation and agreement on how much we'd pay his staff, precisely because there wasn't a handful of teams looking for a new GM this year. 

Not necessarily this year, but this spring. People didn't like the timing of the firing -and I get that- but the always a bridesmaid Jets almost certainly did themselves a huge favor by creating a GM opening when no one else had one. They interviewed four guys better than Mac, Idzik, or Tannenbaum largely because there were no other options for these guys other than standing pat and waiting for next January. 

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Not necessarily this year, but this spring. People didn't like the timing of the firing -and I get that- but the always a bridesmaid Jets almost certainly did themselves a huge favor by creating a GM opening when no one else had one. They interviewed four guys better than Mac, Idzik, or Tannenbaum largely because there were no other options for these guys other than standing pat and waiting for next January. 

Still feels like an unintended consequence we backed into, but this is a fair point.

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, slats said:

Not necessarily this year, but this spring. People didn't like the timing of the firing -and I get that- but the always a bridesmaid Jets almost certainly did themselves a huge favor by creating a GM opening when no one else had one. They interviewed four guys better than Mac, Idzik, or Tannenbaum largely because there were no other options for these guys other than standing pat and waiting for next January. 

Yep, that’s more what I meant but misspoke this year vs this spring. We got a second chance at Douglas that we probably wouldn't have had in January if he'd thrown his hat in the ring of candidates. 

I used the KK example because the Jets might have ended up hiring him if there wasn't another team just as hot to hire him at the same time. Think he accepted their offer after leaving our interview, before the plane landed in Phoenix (maybe before it took off). If the timing was different, we'd have had another shot at making our offer sound more compelling. In the end we hired a HC who - despite his upside potential - wasn't interviewed by another team so far as I can recall. Who knew then that he may have been the right hire for this other reason that didn't present itself for 5 months?

We had that chance with Douglas specifically because we were looking in May-June, and Gase - by his ties to Douglas, and/or by his role in ousting Macc - seems to have aided significantly. But in January? Yeah our track record on in-demand hires isn't great. Ties to Gase may not have been enough. 

Anyway, hopefully Douglas is worth all the hoopla. He's not going anywhere for at least 4 years even if he kind of sucks. Not with that contract. 

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Call whatever you like. There is no way that Joe Douglas is the Jets' GM today if Gase isn't the head coach. Plain and simple. I'll stand by that one. That's about as close to fact as speculation can get. Without Gase, this team still has Maccagnan. 

and there's a decent chance that the main reason gase came to the jets is b/c of darnold.  

so it's all b/c of gettleman!

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

People are not talking about Dorsey.  There is something funny going on with him.  I think he was fired for personal reasons.  

Have no idea.  I dont follow the Browns or Dorsey enough to come to any conclusions but I'll definitely take your word for it.  

I would be really curious to know what happened if true. 

Could also be a reason that as a highly thought of GM in KC he was dumped after FA and the draft.  Interesting though, thanks

[thshadow]

27 minutes ago, slats said:

Not necessarily this year, but this spring. People didn't like the timing of the firing -and I get that- but the always a bridesmaid Jets almost certainly did themselves a huge favor by creating a GM opening when no one else had one. They interviewed four guys better than Mac, Idzik, or Tannenbaum largely because there were no other options for these guys other than standing pat and waiting for next January. 

Just curious, but - what was going on with Douglas this past January?  I don't remember if he was being considered for any of the open jobs.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Quote

 

Whatever your opinion is about Gase, and you've been very clear about it, the man is well respected in league circles

As is Todd Bowles

 

Says who?  Who knows how real that respect is.  How many offers did he take to be someones highly respected HC?

Quote

 

there's no way the New York Jets attract Joe Douglas here without Adam Gase in place, right? 

I call BS here - for the money they paid him they could have attracted just about anyone

 

This falls under the we know nothing about the negotiations but we'll discuss as if we do.  We have no real idea where they started dollars or years just where they ended.  After all the talk about the cheap assed Johnsons now they overpaid to get someone.  Again.  

Quote

 

Bottom line is, I really hope I'm wrong - that a guy that you're calling Sean McVay-like has put up 3 years of bottom 7 offenses and a losing record - was solely bad because he didn't have quality QB play. I would like nothing more than to be wrong about the guy.....

I like just about everything else the Jets have done this offseason.

 

Still cant get it through your thought process that what you do over a three year span is effected by the players and roster.  Injuries to the starting QB mean absolutely nothing to you and those with the narrowest view of a team.  

Unless were talking Tebow and Denver, Manning and Denver, Cutler and others in Chicago.  

 

[Sperm Edwards]

18 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

and there's a decent chance that the main reason gase came to the jets is b/c of darnold.  

so it's all b/c of gettleman!

Hm, you present an interesting gase

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Call whatever you like. There is no way that Joe Douglas is the Jets' GM today if Gase isn't the head coach. Plain and simple. I'll stand by that one. That's about as close to fact as speculation can get. Without Gase, this team still has Maccagnan. 

I think that is just speculation.  Supposedly the story is that CJ didn't want to fire both his HC and GM at the same time because it would've been overwhelming to hire both positions.  So he fired Bowles and got Macc's help to hire a new HC.  Would CJ have fired Macc anyway?  I don't think so myself (I think Gase won a power play) but I think it's at least feasible that the plan was to fire Macc anyway.

 

[FidelioJet]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Still cant get it through your thought process that what you do over a three year span is effected by the players and roster.  Injuries to the starting QB mean absolutely nothing to you and those with the narrowest view of a team.  

Unless were talking Tebow and Denver, Manning and Denver, Cutler and others in Chicago. 

I just find it hypocritical that those rules seem to only apply to Gase but not Bowles.  Everyone around here seems to think Bowles is a terrible HC (while acknowledging he had a terrible roster) while believing he wasn't "effected by the players and roster"

What about his performance in Arizona?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bowles was a very good coach - but why isn't Gase judged by the same rules?

It's not even like most of you guys are taking a wait and see approach - people are treating this like it was some type of coup in hiring the guy.

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I just find it hypocritical that those rules seem to only apply to Gase but not Bowles.  Everyone around here seems to think Bowles is a terrible HC (while acknowledging he had a terrible roster) while believing he wasn't "effected by the players and roster"

What about his performance in Arizona?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bowles was a very good coach - but why isn't Gase judged by the same rules?

It's not even like most of you guys are taking a wait and see approach - people are treating this like it was some type of coup in hiring the guy.

Bowles underachieved every single year, Gase overachieved every single year.  Gase never had a roster like the 2015 Jets.  He made the playoffs with Ryan tannehill and Matt Moore at QB.

What exactly did Bowles do in Arizona?   He was DC in 2013 and 2014, his D's ranked 6th and 24th.  They made the playoffs in 2014 where they lost in the WC Rd to 7-8-1 Carolina giving up 27 points vs an O that averaged around 20 PPG that season.  People talk about Bowles like he was some great DC.  He was a decent DC and an absolutely terrible HC- by far the worst we have had since kotite.

[T0mShane]

Gase working his magic. 

 

[NYJ1]

Knowing how good the Ravens have been at drafting, I am most impressed with Douglas spending a long time with the Ravens scouting dept.

[JustInFudge]

8 hours ago, slats said:

It's better to be lucky than good. 

Matt Rhule may've been the Jets first choice for head coach, but as a college guy with little or no NFL connections, it's probably safe to say that the Jets wouldn't've been able to attract Douglas here. Who knows where the team would be? Probably with Maccagnan still in the big chair. 

Before the team even plays a preseason down, the Gase hire already feels like a pivotal moment in team history. The Jets have a top tier front office and coaching staff for the first time since Parcells. And even then, Parcells was no great GM, and his protege, Tannenbaum, wasn't either. 

It's weird. I actually have expectations for this team. 

These seems like a stretch to go that far.  Gase didnt exactly earn that title in Miami and we have no clue how Douglas will perform but I do agree with the lucky than good piece.  I've had my concerns with the Gase hire but I've said all along, I trust his NFL connects vs. Mac's and he just might be the crazy we need turn this around.  Right now, it feels like that just might be the case.

Maybe it's because it's got a different feel to it from years past.  The NY Jets I grew up with would have given Mac a lifetime pass for drafting Darnold and players like Adams and the potential in Williams and landing multiple all pros in the offseason.  Still shocked they let him go.  It's make me think that someone in the room is actually present and aware of what's going on for once.  Someone who has the foresight to say things need to be different.  A vision.  And you have to think that's Gase.  If Douglas is the real deal, you have to give that credit to Gase too.  And if it's CJ, than I had a punchline that wasnt meant to be political but I deleted it anyway. 

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

I look at it this way.

2 years ago, if you asked me what I was most unhappy about with the organization I would have ranked them  QB, HC, GM.

Since then, we have absolutely upgraded all three.  I'm not sure Gase will be a great HC, or even a very good one, but I'm pretty confident he is a significant upgrade from Bowles.  And I don't think McCown -> Darnold or Macc -> Douglas needs any debate.

When I compare the two rosters, I am hard pressed to find a single player in 2019 that isn't at least as good going into the season as his 2017 counterpart.  And some are truly substantial improvements (on paper), such as:

RB: Forte -> Bell

TE: Nobody -> Herndon

WR: Anderson/Kearse/Kerley -> Anderson/Crowder/Enunwa

? Wesley Johnson -> Pretty much any four-limbed mammal

ILB: Lee/Davis -> Mosley/Williamson

 

But for me, Douglas indicates that we should expect the trend towards an improved roster should only continue now.  And hopefully not having to overcome a truly horrible HC and below-average QB puts us so far ahead in the potential department that I find myself looking forward to the season quite a bit more than I did since 2011 or so.  I think he's the icing on the cake of a really good offseason.   And yes, while Macc had a lot to do with it, I think the lack of valuation of OL was his Achilles heel and if Douglas corrects that, then we are in good shape for the near future.

Funny thing about the bolded.  We actually went out and got a worse center than him and that is very tough to do.

[Saul Goodman]

[Warfish]

That is alot of great sounding words.  

I look forward to seeing the real world outcome of the decision.  Seems we all have every possible reason to be optimistic about Douglas' abillity to do the job for which he has been hired.

Time to get to work.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I just find it hypocritical that those rules seem to only apply to Gase but not Bowles.  Everyone around here seems to think Bowles is a terrible HC (while acknowledging he had a terrible roster) while believing he wasn't "effected by the players and roster"

What about his performance in Arizona?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bowles was a very good coach - but why isn't Gase judged by the same rules?

It's not even like most of you guys are taking a wait and see approach - people are treating this like it was some type of coup in hiring the guy.

For good reason.  We can all site examples of piss poor coaching and even worse situational awareness.  You forgot punting when it was the wrong play?  I can go on and on with specific examples of poor coaching that aren't because of his roster.  

Again, we're talking about explaining 3 years where the fish lost their starting QB for chunks of time to help understand the O numbers.   None of which explains disregarding what he did before.  No one is saying it's a slam dunk, he's a HOF HC. Just saying that going on and on incessantly about the seasons without his starting QB while disregarding a record setting year in Denver doesn't make the most convincing argument.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Bowles underachieved every single year, Gase overachieved every single year.  Gase never had a roster like the 2015 Jets.  He made the playoffs with Ryan tannehill and Matt Moore at QB.

So we should expect alot from Gase this year then?

[mer930]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In the end we hired a HC who - despite his upside potential - wasn't interviewed by another team so far as I can recall. Who knew then that he may have been the right hire for this other reason that didn't present itself for 5 months?

For the record, Adam Gase also interviewed with the Cardinals and Packers.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, mer930 said:

For the record, Adam Gase also interviewed with the Cardinals and Packers.

 

Yeah but that was just to satisfy the Rooney Rule. They weren't really interested.

[section314]

It's amazing that there is even a discussion on whether Gase is an uptick over Bowles. Since they coached in the same division, and other than 2 games per year played the same schedule, let's start there. Bowles was 16 under .500, Gase 3 under. Gase was 5-1 vs Bowles. Gase made the playoffs once, and had the Dolphins in the race last year into the last 2 weeks. Bowles lost double digits the last three years. This is one instance when it really is apples vs apples, and it's not even close.

[genot]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Whatever your opinion is about Gase, and you've been very clear about it, the man is well respected in league circles

As is Todd Bowles

there's no way the New York Jets attract Joe Douglas here without Adam Gase in place, right? 

I call BS here - for the money they paid him they could have attracted just about anyone

 

Bottom line is, I really hope I'm wrong - that a guy that you're calling Sean McVay-like has put up 3 years of bottom 7 offenses and a losing record - was solely bad because he didn't have quality QB play. I would like nothing more than to be wrong about the guy.....

I like just about everything else the Jets have done this offseason.

The thing people don't get, is Gase loved Tannyhill. Defended Tannyhill. This offensive guru, who's offense finished 31 in the league in total offense last year,25th, and 24th, the years, before never felt the need to look through the draft for another QB.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, genot said:

The thing people don't get, is Gase loved Tannyhill. Defended Tannyhill. This offensive guru, who's offense finished 31 in the league in total offense last year,25th, and 24th, the years, before never felt the need to look through the draft for another QB.

And pretty much every year while he praised Tannehill publicly it was said he was trying to trade up to draft his replacement. 

Cant believe he didnt let the press and public know this in his pressers

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And pretty much every year while he praised Tannehill publicly it was said he was trying to trade up to draft his replacement. 

Cant believe he didnt let the press and public know this in his pressers

I'm in Ft Lauderdale. Never heard that they ever tried to trade up for any QB.

[genot]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And pretty much every year while he praised Tannehill publicly it was said he was trying to trade up to draft his replacement. 

Cant believe he didnt let the press and public know this in his pressers

They did try to trade for Stafford though.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So we should expect alot from Gase this year then?

Absolutely.  With the coaching change alone we were going to be much better, add in the infusion of talent and this is a playoff caliber team.

[WayneChrebet80]

13 hours ago, Jetster said:

"• My belief is that Sam Darnold’s presence was a significant draw for the candidates involved, mitigating some of the pratfalls that were on the display the last few months. So interestingly enough, the trade that Maccagnan and VP of player personnel Brian Heimerdinger made in March 2018, their most impactful move in four years there, wound up being a catalyst to finding the right people to replace them.

 And ultimately, I’d say between Douglas and the guys he’ll likely bring with him, the Jets have done just that. All’s well that ends well, I guess." 

*** This quote above from Breer is exactly what I've been saying all along. If the NY Giants took Sam Darnold & the Jets ended up with Sequan Barkley, though he's a great RB, this Jets organization would have C level coaching & GMs interested in this job. The Giants passing on Darnold while Eli was deteriorating will be our moment of change similar to Mo Lewis taking out Drew Bledsoe in New England. It will be etched in the memory & passed on through to the next generation of New York Giants fans for years. In fact, passing on Darnold will create the next generation of NY Jet fans in the tri state area.

Daniel Jones is a lighting it up in practices. Gettleman got it right.