JustInFudge Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: This is a decent enough analogy, but it is exactly what they were saying about Jackson before that draft. Seems like they were able to find a structure that works for Jackson. Maybe it will be impossible with Darnold, or maybe the "structure" that they are trying just sucks. I said it another thread but Sam was a raw inexperienced prospect that need stability, leadership, talent, structure and someone that knows how to develop a QB based on their strengths. The Jets had none of the above. So while Sam wasnt a great prospect to begin with, the Jets were the worst possible team to for him to flourish. Obviously everyone underestimated Jackson's arm and ability to pass the ball in the NFL, myself included but I think the difference between the two players is really an interesting conversation. Would Jackson have succeed here? Im not sure but he offers something that Sam doesnt, that I think helps a player like him overcome situation. First off, he has balls and isnt charmin soft. Secondly, he's dynamic and his run threat alone would probably make him a successful QB in the league. The league is starting to favor Jackson athletes but there has to be a system. Jets picked the wrong fit for the wrong player in a terrible situation. That's why I want Fields over Lawrence. The Fields are the future and it's not just talk anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Mogglez said: Currently? Yeah. NopePatricia, thedude ontehGainst... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: You watch. He'll throw for 225 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INTs and a solid 20-25 % of the board is gonna be like "SEE, SEE, HE'S THE GUY JUST GOTTA GET RID OF GASE" It is a certainty. Posters here were already pre-gloating and setting up this same argument for GENO FRICKIN' SMITH when it was announced he was starting for the Giants. And let's not forget @Wonderboy crowing last night after Darnold threw a TD... after he threw a pick-6, but that was conveniently ignored of course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: The group is just a bunch of backups but it's fiction that no one's ever open. He missed open receivers today even if his starters had names like Berrios. Changing the receivers makes it easier on the QB no doubt about it, but good receivers won't change errant throws into good ones. We all wish it wasn’t so, but he looks terrible out there; no different than the rest of the backups except for their respective, disproportionate hype. Not making excuses for Sam because he was brutal yesterday. But can you possibly fathom that some of his errant throws are related to grocery store clerks and gas station attendants running wrong routes. The 1st pick looked bad but perhaps Darnold expected Cager to cut in as opposed to sitting outside on his route. Again the optics are bad , but I'll wait until the O has some semblance of a starting unit on the field before I crucify Sam and the offense in general. The D , that's another story , just horrible, 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Darnold makes a ridiculous play like this almost every game. The kid has a crapload of talent. I'd love to see what he could do with NFL caliber receivers and a real HC. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 16 hours ago, JiF said: Let’s just put any doubt to bed. I will be the first to admit that I didn’t want it to be true and defended him in many cases but it’s real. Sam Darnold is a bust. It doesn’t look good when the qb throws 3 picks. In defense of darnold his receivers were not getting open and the oline was breaking down. And darnold hit his receivers in the hands and they dropped the ball. Very tough to win under those conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Darnold makes a ridiculous play like this almost every game. The kid has a crapload of talent. I'd love to see what he could do with NFL caliber receivers and a real HC. FFS it was a nice play but it wasn't something to lose your sh*t over. He demonstrated very good escape-ability there, and after buying himself that kind of time, the throw ended up being a fairly easy one. The flashy plays are not what make a QB anyways. It's the seemingly boring, inside-the-pocket precision passing that makes a QB. Making a crazy throw off a back foot or backyard style doesn't impress me if you can't do the little things, consistently, that make a franchise QB. Darnold has time and again missed open receivers, even when given tons of time, and made horrid decisions. That stuff doesn't provide any hope that he'll be a successful starting QB in this league, anywhere. If Mahomes made this play we would surely NOT be talking about it for months, because he seems to make ridiculous plays all the time, ALONG WITH the consistent stuff that makes him great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 48 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: There weren't many but I'll stand up and be counted that I was one of those people. My theory is that Lamar is going to take a big hit at some point and eventually turn into RG III. I still believe in Sam's ability btw but I think the Jets are just royally screwing him up. And if somehow Sam and Lamar swapped teams, I think Sam would succeed in Baltimore while Lamar would be a disaster here. Because of the stability, leadership, structure and player development in Balt. I agree, Sam would probably be a better player in Balt. That said, I don think they're SB contenders like they are with Lamar. I certainly dont think he wins an MVP. And I question if the Jets would be the worst team in the league with Lamar the way they are with Sam. A good team? Probably not. But non-competitive? I question that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, JiF said: Would Jackson have succeed here? Yes. He HIMSELF would succeed. He would be fun to watch. HE would clearlydemonstreatethat he is a special talent. Would ittranslateto a good W-Lis anotherthing.... sameguy in lastyears O has at least500-600 more yards passing and 300+ rusing.... there is nothing interesting about comparing Sam to LJ. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderboy Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, jgb said: It is a certainty. Posters here were already pre-gloating and setting up this same argument for GENO FRICKIN' SMITH when it was announced he was starting for the Giants. And let's not forget @Wonderboy crowing last night after Darnold threw a TD... after he threw a pick-6, but that was conveniently ignored of course. Please Don’t disrupt my breakfast 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 It happens when the team takes a fan's approach that nothing matters until you get your QB. Then you get your QB and there is no team around him because the team has been perpetually drafting dl and dbs in some sort of vicious cycle. Then the QB develops bad habits and decision making patterns from losing and the cycle continues or he fails to replace already existing ones with new ones which generally come with success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: Not making excuses for Sam because he was brutal yesterday. But can you possibly fathom that some of his errant throws are related to grocery store clerks and gas station attendants running wrong routes. The 1st pick looked bad but perhaps Darnold expected Cager to cut in as opposed to sitting outside on his route. Again the optics are bad , but I'll wait until the O has some semblance of a starting unit on the field before I crucify Sam and the offense in general. The D , that's another story , just horrible, So in this round of Darnold Excuse Twister, we need right foot on "supporting cast is athletically inferior and can't gain seperation" and left hand on "supporting cast is mentally deficient and can't read playbooks." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: You watch. He'll throw for 225 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INTs and a solid 20-25 % of the board is gonna be like "SEE, SEE, HE'S THE GUY JUST GOTTA GET RID OF GASE" Definitely. At this point, I would need to see Darnold go on a miraculous tear down the stretch and drag this roster to 8-8/9-7(ish) territory for me to feel comfortable with him going forward. Beyond that seemingly unlikely event, I think it makes a lot of sense to move on. The interesting question is: How? Obviously, if we get the top pick, we take Lawrence. No brainer. If we get a top 2-3 pick, we probably take Fields. Beyond that, it gets very uncertain, but if JD likes a QB in this draft more than Darnold who is available when we pick, he probably has to take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Wonderboy said: Please Don’t disrupt my breakfast Just needling you a bit, we cool bro. You stood in there and are taking your licks like a man. Unlike Professor Statistics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Darnold makes a ridiculous play like this almost every game. The kid has a crapload of talent. I'd love to see what he could do with NFL caliber receivers and a real HC. PFF is garbage. Their opinion has about as much traction as adam gase's play calling. They have their own magical mystery formula that is so subjective it really means nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, JiF said: Because of the stability, leadership, structure and player development in Balt. I agree, Sam would probably be a better player in Balt. That said, I don think they're SB contenders like they are with Lamar. I certainly dont think he wins an MVP. And I question if the Jets would be the worst team in the league with Lamar the way they are with Sam. A good team? Probably not. But non-competitive? I question that. I still think Lamar would've been a disaster here. Though, I agree that Sam wouldn't have been an MVP in Baltimore last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, jgb said: So in this round of Darnold Excuse Twister, we need right foot on "supporting cast is athletically inferior and can't gain seperation" and left hand on "supporting cast is mentally deficient and can't read playbooks." No I think that's reserved for a small contingent of board members who think they are vastly superior because they boldly predict everything Jets related sucks - way to go out on a limb there . Then when something good happens they claim , well I'm just happy the Jets did something good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 The problem is that you can't build a career around ridiculous plays.Remember how this whole thing started with the pick 6 at Detroit? He's always been turnover prone. he can't find the open man or read the field or set his feet. But other than that he's awesome What's Sam Worth on the trade market? Honestly? A conditional 4th? Darnold makes a ridiculous play like this almost every game. The kid has a crapload of talent. I'd love to see what he could do with NFL caliber receivers and a real HC. [/url] Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k8 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 16 hours ago, JustEndTheSuffering said: Christopher Johnson is the biggest pussy owner ever. If CJ was a man he’d fire Gase right now and walk into the locker room with a fire and address the team. He's not really the owner. The owner has been on vacation in London for 4 years. The guy in charge is a babysitter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 10 hours ago, Paradis said: All I’m saying is, he wasn’t a bust when we drafted him. Depends on your definition of a bust. If a bust is someone who fails to be a franchise QB, then yeah, he was a flawed prospect with plenty of things that could prevent him from being a franchise guy, even if he'd been placed in a great situation. If Andy Reid had drafted him, he'd have been looking to replace him within 2 seasons. Just like he did with Alex Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k8 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 15 hours ago, JetPotato said: Sam Darnold will win 13 games next season in New England This is my nightmare scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: FFS it was a nice play but it wasn't something to lose your sh*t over. He demonstrated very good escape-ability there, and after buying himself that kind of time, the throw ended up being a fairly easy one. The flashy plays are not what make a QB anyways. It's the seemingly boring, inside-the-pocket precision passing that makes a QB. Making a crazy throw off a back foot or backyard style doesn't impress me if you can't do the little things, consistently, that make a franchise QB. Darnold has time and again missed open receivers, even when given tons of time, and made horrid decisions. That stuff doesn't provide any hope that he'll be a successful starting QB in this league, anywhere. If Mahomes made this play we would surely NOT be talking about it for months, because he seems to make ridiculous plays all the time, ALONG WITH the consistent stuff that makes him great. Show me the standard plays he's leaving on the field. I can think of 2 plays this season he should have made but didn't. I can think of a lot more where there's just nothing for him to do than to try and improvise and hope some sh*t like this breaks out. Show me all the separation his receivers have that he's missing out on. I don't believe it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Losmeister said: outsiders had him at %51.9 bust chance.... And they pick out the busts at at least a 75 % clip. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Darnold makes a ridiculous play like this almost every game. The kid has a crapload of talent. I'd love to see what he could do with NFL caliber receivers and a real HC. I have this sickly feeling of inevitable "Jet fan doom" that, in a couple of years, we'll be watching Sam regularly making plays like this for Pittsburgh (maybe in a Superbowl MVP season) while the Jets are starting their next rebuild because our idiot owner believed in Adam Gase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: No I think that's reserved for a small contingent of board members who think they are vastly superior because they boldly predict everything Jets related sucks - way to go out on a limb there . Then when something good happens they claim , well I'm just happy the Jets did something good. And the pattern continues. Predict awful Jets season in August: "Troll! Fake fan! Go root for the Ravens!!!!" After reality sets it: "Well, duh, way to go out on a limb with that call." Sometimes being right just has to be its own reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, jgb said: Some of us are cursed to put facts over feelings. It's our lot in life. I feel for you , you're in for a life of nagging back problems supporting that massive head of yours all filled with delusion and negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Just now, TuscanyTile2 said: I have this sickly feeling of inevitable "Jet fan doom" that, in a couple of years, we'll be watching Sam regularly making plays like this for Pittsburgh (maybe in a Superbowl MVP season) while the Jets are starting their next rebuild because our idiot owner believed in Adam Gase. same I was happy to see Pennington, Sanchez, Geno Smith all go. Not a worry about it. Darnold has legit NFL skills and someone is going to make him a winning QB. I hope it's us. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Show me the standard plays he's leaving on the field. I can think of 2 plays this season he should have made but didn't. I can think of a lot more where there's just nothing for him to do than to try and improvise and hope some sh*t like this breaks out. Show me all the separation his receivers have that he's missing out on. I don't believe it's there. How about the play where he got tackled out of bounds while Crowder was open? I don't have these clips handy, but I believe one of the beat writers (Hughes?) tweeted out a few plays where he was missing wide open guys. He's also had plays where other receivers open and threw into double coverage instead in Sanchez-like fashion. People here were pointing those out yesterday. Look, I wanted to believe in the kid too. At some point you have to lift up your play and that of your teammates to the best of your abilities. Darnold has done that a few times in his career to date, but the times where he's basically sh*t himself on the field is about a 50 % clip at this point, and another 30 % of his starts were just "meh". He has 5 games in his career where he had a QB Rating below 50. That's horrific. At some point you have to recognize that his negatives far outweigh the positives, and just move on. He's not the guy, and he likely won't BE the guy for any franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said: I have this sickly feeling of inevitable "Jet fan doom" that, in a couple of years, we'll be watching Sam regularly making plays like this for Pittsburgh (maybe in a Superbowl MVP season) while the Jets are starting their next rebuild because our idiot owner believed in Adam Gase. In the NFL, failing quickly and moving on is the #2 surest way to improve an organization. Not failing in the first place is obviously #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: I feel for you , you're in for a life of nagging back problems supporting that massive head of yours all filled with delusion and negativity. Yeah it's awesome being a rabid Jets fans when they suck. I love Sundays so I can yet again both watch terrible football and be called a terrible fan for pointing it out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, jgb said: Yeah it's awesome being a rabid Jets fans when they suck. I love Sundays so I can yet again both watch terrible football and be called a terrible fan for pointing it out. If the shoe fits . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: same I was happy to see Pennington, Sanchez, Geno Smith all go. Not a worry about it. Darnold has legit NFL skills and someone is going to make him a winning QB. I hope it's us. What are his "legit NFL skills" exactly? I'm still waiting for someone to point those out. The backyard ball people like to throw out there isn't exactly sustainable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said: same I was happy to see Pennington, Sanchez, Geno Smith all go. Not a worry about it. Darnold has legit NFL skills and someone is going to make him a winning QB. I hope it's us. Same exact way I felt. All of those guys were either bad or pretenders. I roll my eyes when I see people comparing Sam to Mark Sanchez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, jgb said: And the pattern continues. Predict awful Jets season in August: "Troll! Fake fan! Go root for the Ravens!!!!" After reality sets it: "Well, duh, way to go out on a limb with that call." Sometimes being right just has to be its own reward. Yes. My football acumen IS VASTLYSUPERIOR to about 80% ofthe twits on this board. emperors new clothes and all. it's notlike it's fun in any way. i justprefer adult conversation is all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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