Sam Darnold is a bust

[Augustiniak]

Just now, jgb said:

Exactly. That is the terminus of the "supporting cast" arguments. But some want to ride it to "Darnold is secretly an elite QB in hiding" town.

Most qbs are not elite.  Most qbs can be decent if surrounded by competent players and coaches.  The jets haven’t had that on offense for a long time which is why every drafted qb has failed, they had no chance with this offensive roster and coaching.  The jets have never been ‘all in’ on a drafted qb since maybe O’Brien.  That’s the last time they actually invested premium picks on offense to help the qb.  Beckton is definitely a step in this direction.  Hopefully mims is too.  

[jgb]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

Most qbs are not elite.  Most qbs can be decent if surrounded by competent players and coaches.  The jets haven’t had that on offense for a long time which is why every drafted qb has failed, they had no chance with this offensive roster and coaching.  The jets have never been ‘all in’ on a drafted qb since maybe O’Brien.  That’s the last time they actually invested premium picks on offense to help the qb.  Beckton is definitely a step in this direction.  Hopefully mims is too.  

Agree most are not elite. Disagree most can be decent with good supporting class. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Again, those were teams with good supporting casts.  The jets have a bottom 5 OL and wrs and rbs.  I think you need minimum competence at some other positions and the HC or OC to develop a qb, you can’t suck everywhere else at 9 of the other 10 positions and then when the offense blows, blame it on the qb.  If you look at other teams that have drafted qbs in recent years, they had either good HCs or good weapons or even a good OL. Cleveland, buffalo, Baltimore, KC, Houston, cincy, chargers, cardinals.  The new qbs didn’t enter into a situation where they had no help at any position and the coaching also sucked.  The only other qb who came into that kind of scenario was Daniel jones and he also sucks.  I just don’t think jones and darnold suck as bad as they’re playing, they just have zero help everywhere else.

If you are responding to me, you need to explain yourself.  Are you claiming that the 2004-2005 San Francisco 49ers had a "good supporting cast?"  If you are saying that you are sadly mistaken.  

The Cardinals are a great fit for Murray, but they were impossible for Rosen?  Coaches and QBs make each other.  Darnold is on his 2nd set.  How long until we decide it's him and not the coaches?

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If you are responding to me, you need to explain yourself.  Are you claiming that the 2004-2005 San Francisco 49ers had a "good supporting cast?"  If you are saying that you are sadly mistaken.  

The Cardinals are a great fit for Murray, but they were impossible for Rosen?  Coaches and QBs make each other.  Darnold is on his 2nd set.  How long until we decide it's him and not the coaches?

This is the problem with changing gms and hcs every few years.  They want to start fresh and get rid of the guys the prior regime drafted.  So what can darnold become, we don’t know.  Going by the way the league works, new gms want to draft their own guys.  So i think darnold will be gone next year.  They’ll deal him to a team like Jax or the Steelers and take draft capital.  

As for the cardinals, they traded for Hopkins to help out Murray.  They got a top 5 wr for their new qb.  Granted it was after his rookie year, but they were aggressive and got him.  Their wrs are good.  The jets got rid of the one guy in Robbie who defenses had to worry about.  The jets weapons are even worse than last year.

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, jgb said:

Exactly. That is the terminus of the "supporting cast" arguments. But some want to ride it to "Darnold is secretly an elite QB in hiding" town.

At this rate, Russ Wilson will probably rest the final few weeks of the season and we can see what a Jets QB who “we ruined” does with an elite supporting cast. CAN’T WAIT!

 

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Exactly. That is the terminus of the "supporting cast" arguments. But some want to ride it to "Darnold is secretly an elite QB in hiding" town.

That was the part of his argument I agreed with.

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This is the problem with changing gms and hcs every few years.  They want to start fresh and get rid of the guys the prior regime drafted.  So what can darnold become, we don’t know.  Going by the way the league works, new gms want to draft their own guys.  So i think darnold will be gone next year.  They’ll deal him to a team like Jax or the Steelers and take draft capital.  

As for the cardinals, they traded for Hopkins to help out Murray.  They got a top 5 wr for their new qb.  Granted it was after his rookie year, but they were aggressive and got him.  Their wrs are good.  The jets got rid of the one guy in Robbie who defenses had to worry about.  The jets weapons are even worse than last year.

Fair enough, but I don't see the parallel with the Niners and Smith.  My point is, that was a similar situation to Darnold.  Smith survived 4 head coaches, and McLoughan, Yorke, Baalke in the front office.  He had a new OC every year and some of these guys people are still calling for as our HC - McCarthy, Norv, Hostler, Martz and Jimmy Raye his first five seasons.  Raye didn't make it out of Smith's 6th season, getting axed for the QB coach.  In 2011 Greg Roman came on board and suddenly he is the #1 overall pick again, getting them within some special teams turnovers from the super bowl in the OT loss to the Giants.  What will decide if Darnold sticks around is what we are offered and how much he costs.  

[Charlie Brown]

23 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

As for the cardinals, they traded for Hopkins to help out Murray.  They got a top 5 wr for their new qb.  Granted it was after his rookie year, but they were aggressive and got him.  Their wrs are good.  The jets got rid of the one guy in Robbie who defenses had to worry about.  The jets weapons are even worse than last year.

Thank you!

It is called having a REAL PLAN!!

Something the Jets have lacked for twenty plus years!

[Losmeister]

watch and weep... Darnild ALWYAS waits til the intended target is alreayopen...  always late...   GARBAGE QB

 

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

watch and weep... Darnild ALWYAS waits til the intended target is alreayopen...  always late...   GARBAGE QB

 

 

Allen playing with the most elusive NYJ QB trait: confidence 

[ryu79]

I read people criticize Darnold on the first pic six yesterday because he DIDN'T wait for the receiver to turn around. As pointed out above he can't wait for the receiver to be open and one of his strengths (historically had precisely been throwing people open).

It's a bad decision to go there at that juncture in the game because they don't yet have timing together or know how Cager comes out of his pattern...but then heard Gase explain how he was so excited/encouraged that Sam had tried it... 

My point is - those timing throws work when you have confidence where your receivers are going to be. We had two picks yesterday where it was clear that we don't have that right now and with the amount of churn in the line up that's kind of a fait accompli. 

[Biggs]

Joey Harrington 2.0

[CotcheryifyouCan]

it sucks to say but it looks like it. our upper management did him no favors tho. no skill position players (outside of crowder). terrible o line. multiple coordinators. im starting to think we can never develop a qb.  even farve was a mess before he told shotty to go f off

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Not making excuses for Sam because he was brutal yesterday.  But can you possibly fathom that some of his errant throws are related to grocery store clerks and gas station attendants running wrong routes. The 1st pick looked bad but perhaps Darnold expected Cager to cut in as opposed to sitting outside on his route.  Again the optics are bad , but I'll wait until the O has some semblance of a starting unit on the field before I crucify Sam and the offense in general. The D , that's another story , just horrible,  

Yes it's possible (and like you, I wish that's the case). But no it's not likely. He's been so far off on so many throws he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on any/every errant throw like he's Drew Brees or something. 

[maury77]

This is what Darnold looked like his rookie season as one of the youngest starting QBs ever. 

This was a guy that was PFFs highest rated QB over the last quarter of his rookie season. Compare that to what you see now. Darnold is unsure, timid & slow. You can see it. He doesn't trust what he sees out there. He's playing scared. Did he forget to play football? No. Did he stop caring and not train the way he was supposed to? Maybe I suppose, but we have never seen anyone make that allegation. Is Gase coaching him well? Maybe, but he has no record of success with QBs outside of Peyton Manning and acknowledged that Darnold was his first opportunity to mold and work with a young QB. This is Gase's first time working with a proverbial "ball of clay" and the results are miserable. No one likes to use the injury excuse, but Gase loves relying upon option routes with receivers. Option routes rely upon the receiver and QB being on the same page. This takes time for the 2 parties to get to know each other. In Indianapolis, Gase is calling option routes to Hogan (2 total games ever with Darnold), Cager (first game ever with Darnold), Berrios (the most games played with Darnold and, not surprisingly, the one that produced the best results the last 2 weeks), and Josh Malone (2nd game ever with Darnold). Why is Gase still calling option routes without Crowder on the field?

PFF (some people swear by it, some people hate it, I'm in the middle) ranks the Jets WRs as follow this year:

Josh Malone: 52.8 (ranked 111 of 118 qualifying WRs)

Braxton Berrios: 68.8 (47 out of 118 [surprisingly decent for the guy that was supposed to be the 5th receiving going into the season])

Chris Hogan: 57 (102 out of 118.)

Breshad Perriman 56.3 ( 104 out of 118) (Robby Anderson BTW? 72.6 or 32 out of 118)

Chris Herndon 54.9 (57 out of 66)

Ryan Griffin 48.7 (65 out of 66)

Is there a worst group of targets in the NFL right now? I'm not going to do the work, but I think we would be shocked to see anyone nearly as poor. 

Darnold looks horrible right now. But before we make any long term declarations, how about the franchise sh*t can Gase after Friday, give the team 10 days to get healthy and see what Darnold looks like throwing to Crowder, Mims and ..... Perriman sucks, how about Cager?

 

[Jet hustle]

12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

This is what Darnold looked like his rookie season as one of the youngest starting QBs ever. 

This was a guy that was PFFs highest rated QB over the last quarter of his rookie season. Compare that to what you see now. Darnold is unsure, timid & slow. You can see it. He doesn't trust what he sees out there. He's playing scared. Did he forget to play football? No. Did he stop caring and not train the way he was supposed to? Maybe I suppose, but we have never seen anyone make that allegation. Is Gase coaching him well? Maybe, but he has no record of success with QBs outside of Peyton Manning and acknowledged that Darnold was his first opportunity to mold and work with a young QB. This is Gase's first time working with a proverbial "ball of clay" and the results are miserable. No one likes to use the injury excuse, but Gase loves relying upon option routes with receivers. Option routes rely upon the receiver and QB being on the same page. This takes time for the 2 parties to get to know each other. In Indianapolis, Gase is calling option routes to Hogan (2 total games ever with Darnold), Cager (first game ever with Darnold), Berrios (the most games played with Darnold and, not surprisingly, the one that produced the best results the last 2 weeks), and Josh Malone (2nd game ever with Darnold). Why is Gase still calling option routes without Crowder on the field?

PFF (some people swear by it, some people hate it, I'm in the middle) ranks the Jets WRs as follow this year:

Josh Malone: 52.8 (ranked 111 of 118 qualifying WRs)

Braxton Berrios: 68.8 (47 out of 118 [surprisingly decent for the guy that was supposed to be the 5th receiving going into the season])

Chris Hogan: 57 (102 out of 118.)

Breshad Perriman 56.3 ( 104 out of 118) (Robby Anderson BTW? 72.6 or 32 out of 118)

Chris Herndon 54.9 (57 out of 66)

Ryan Griffin 48.7 (65 out of 66)

Is there a worst group of targets in the NFL right now? I'm not going to do the work, but I think we would be shocked to see anyone nearly as poor. 

Darnold looks horrible right now. But before we make any long term declarations, how about the franchise sh*t can Gase after Friday, give the team 10 days to get healthy and see what Darnold looks like throwing to Crowder, Mims and ..... Perriman sucks, how about Cager?

 

whats your point?   Lets extend him and give him a mega contract?   

[maury77]

whats your point?   Lets extend him and give him a mega contract?   

I’m sorry for snapping, but can you read? Where the f@ck did I say that? Where did I say they should pick up his option? I didn’t. I said wait for our d!ckhead coach to hopefully get canned Friday, wait for our top 3 receivers to come back and let him play out the season before we pass judgment. Do you want to play one of the backups instead? Jesus Christ.


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[56mehl56]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes it's possible (and like you, I wish that's the case). But no it's not likely. He's been so far off on so many throws he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on any/every errant throw like he's Drew Brees or something. 

Interesting you choose Brees as a comparison , take away Kamara and Brees has looked lost w/o Mike Thomas funny how losing a starting wr can impact even a superstar. 

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, maury77 said:

This is what Darnold looked like his rookie season as one of the youngest starting QBs ever. 

This was a guy that was PFFs highest rated QB over the last quarter of his rookie season. Compare that to what you see now. Darnold is unsure, timid & slow. You can see it. He doesn't trust what he sees out there. He's playing scared. Did he forget to play football? No. Did he stop caring and not train the way he was supposed to? Maybe I suppose, but we have never seen anyone make that allegation. Is Gase coaching him well? Maybe, but he has no record of success with QBs outside of Peyton Manning and acknowledged that Darnold was his first opportunity to mold and work with a young QB. This is Gase's first time working with a proverbial "ball of clay" and the results are miserable. No one likes to use the injury excuse, but Gase loves relying upon option routes with receivers. Option routes rely upon the receiver and QB being on the same page. This takes time for the 2 parties to get to know each other. In Indianapolis, Gase is calling option routes to Hogan (2 total games ever with Darnold), Cager (first game ever with Darnold), Berrios (the most games played with Darnold and, not surprisingly, the one that produced the best results the last 2 weeks), and Josh Malone (2nd game ever with Darnold). Why is Gase still calling option routes without Crowder on the field?

PFF (some people swear by it, some people hate it, I'm in the middle) ranks the Jets WRs as follow this year:

Josh Malone: 52.8 (ranked 111 of 118 qualifying WRs)

Braxton Berrios: 68.8 (47 out of 118 [surprisingly decent for the guy that was supposed to be the 5th receiving going into the season])

Chris Hogan: 57 (102 out of 118.)

Breshad Perriman 56.3 ( 104 out of 118) (Robby Anderson BTW? 72.6 or 32 out of 118)

Chris Herndon 54.9 (57 out of 66)

Ryan Griffin 48.7 (65 out of 66)

Is there a worst group of targets in the NFL right now? I'm not going to do the work, but I think we would be shocked to see anyone nearly as poor. 

Darnold looks horrible right now. But before we make any long term declarations, how about the franchise sh*t can Gase after Friday, give the team 10 days to get healthy and see what Darnold looks like throwing to Crowder, Mims and ..... Perriman sucks, how about Cager?

 

Wow.  Thanks for posting this.  You're 100% right, he doesnt trust what he sees.  He's hesitant and scared to make throws/plays he didnt even think twice about as a rookie.  I've pointed out the options routes, you can see Sam's not sure where they're going by how he almost has to pump fake before figuring out where they want to go impacting timing.

A few things stood out to me after watching every play in those games;

- it reminded me of why I was so excited about Sam the way he finished his rookie season.

- he was 10000x more comfortable in that offense.  He was more decisive and he seemed to have a plan on each play.  Motion, play action, roll outs, 5 wide, designed runs.  He just look so much more in command and had so much more trust in his line and WR's. 

- anyone that says he didnt have chemistry with Robby is nuts.  It was evident in that film.  He trusted him so much.  So many throws he doesnt have the balls to make right now, he would throw to Robby.

- Chris Herndon looked like a totally different player.  Both in usage and his play making ability.

- the OL, that was virtually the same cast of characters that Gase inherited, was 100x better that year than they were under Gase.

Honestly, I think Sam is broken because I think he's soft weak minded baby bitch but I will be honest, this post was strong and does make me wonder if he could recapture some of that getting away from Gase. 

 

 

[Losmeister]

i need some more..  "not to make excuses for sam, but (insert a million excuses for sam) "posts...   please

[maury77]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

Wow.  Thanks for posting this.  You're 100% right, he doesnt trust what he sees.  He's hesitant and scared to make throws/plays he didnt even think twice about as a rookie.  I've pointed out the options routes, you can see Sam's not sure where they're going by how he almost has to pump fake before figuring out where they want to go impacting timing.

A few things stood out to me after watching every play in those games;

- it reminded me of why I was so excited about Sam the way he finished his rookie season.

- he was 10000x more comfortable in that offense.  He was more decisive and he seemed to have a plan on each play.  Motion, play action, roll outs, 5 wide, designed runs.  He just look so much more in command and had so much more trust in his line and WR's. 

- anyone that says he didnt have chemistry with Robby is nuts.  It was evident in that film.  He trusted him so much.  So many throws he doesnt have the balls to make right now, he would throw to Robby.

- Chris Herndon looked like a totally different player.  Both in usage and his play making ability.

- the OL, that was virtually the same cast of characters that Gase inherited, was 100x better that year than they were under Gase.

Honestly, I think Sam is broken because I think he's soft weak minded baby bitch but I will be honest, this post was strong and does make me wonder if he could recapture some of that getting away from Gase. 

 

 

I agree with you on the mental part. All the talk about Darnold being wired right has not manifested itself. The kid looks broken when you hear him speak and, honestly,  it makes me hate Gase so much more. F*ck Gase.

[Jetmech]

I just heard his post game conference on SNY. Didn’t like what I heard. I’ve been a true believer in this guy even when he was at USC and hoped he’d land with the Jets. But he came across really passionless, boring and methodical. No anger, no humility, no desire.   [mention=33560]JTJet[/mention] hit me right between the eyes when he described how he grew up and said Darnold’s bitch ass needs to man up. Absolutely correct. I’m done with this yo yo. He’ll eventually get traded, probably play decently with a better team but doubt he’ll ever be anything more than an average QB. 

I saw the video, first time I’ve seen him like this. I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to talk about his awful game. Again, perfect time to prove his mettle...


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[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Honestly, I think Sam is broken because I think he's soft weak minded baby bitch but I will be honest, this post was strong and does make me wonder if he could recapture some of that getting away from Gase. 

And so it starts again. 

Darnold will throw for 225 yards, 2 TD's and 0 INTs against Denver and Nico and JiF will be leading a contingent of posters back onto the pro-Darnold bandwagon.  Book it.

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And so it starts again. 

Darnold will throw for 225 yards, 2 TD's and 0 INTs against Denver and Nico and JiF will be leading a contingent of posters back onto the pro-Darnold bandwagon.  Book it.

GFY - Nico?  That's ******* low dude.  Like, the lowest. 

And you didnt quote the part I said "he is broken" and you're posting in my thread about Sam being a bust.  I would never fall for that fools gold. Besides, you highlighted the part about getting away from Gase.  

GFY GFY GFY

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, JiF said:

GFY - Nico?  That's ******* low dude.  Like, the lowest. 

And you didnt quote the part I said "he is broken" and you're posting in my thread about Sam being a bust.  I would never fall for that fools gold. Besides, you highlighted the part about getting away from Gase.  

GFY GFY GFY

 

Like clockwork!  ?

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Like clockwork!  ?

[slimjasi]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And so it starts again. 

Darnold will throw for 225 yards, 2 TD's and 0 INTs against Denver and Nico and JiF will be leading a contingent of posters back onto the pro-Darnold bandwagon.  Book it.

Probably, but at the end of the day, it won't matter. If Darnold wants to save his place here next season, he has to completely flip the script and ball out right now. Even his staunchest supporters know this. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Probably, but at the end of the day, it won't matter. If Darnold wants to save his place here next season, he has to completely flip the script and ball out right now. Even his staunchest supporters know this. 

True.  Except in Nico's world, "balling out" is Darnold not sh*tting himself on the field.  It's a low bar to clear.

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, Jetmech said:

I saw the video, first time I’ve seen him like this. I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to talk about his awful game. Again, perfect time to prove his mettle...


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Saw which video? The one where he’s in the cafeteria? 

[Jetmech]

Saw which video? The one where he’s in the cafeteria? 

No, what cafeteria? The video of his PC after the game.


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[Wonderboy]

Just now, Jetmech said:

No, what cafeteria? The video of his PC after the game.


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Oh ok - there was a Jets show where he’s a real azzhole to a woman serving him food at the Jets practice site. 

[Jetmech]

Oh ok - there was a Jets show where he’s a real azzhole to a woman serving him food at the Jets practice site. 

Really?


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[Vader]

22 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Coaches and QBs make each other.  Darnold is on his 2nd set.  How long until we decide it's him and not the coaches?

This statement feeds into the bad management narrative.

Darnold was drafted out of sequence — we still had a defensive HC, who had no involvement with the offense or the QB, was a lame duck and quickly replaced by a second HC with abysmal offensive production, player development and lockerrom results. 

Darnold is also on his second GM — the first universally recognized as one of if not the worst GM in team history — the team was utterly devoid of offensive talent or depth.

That’s three years, two HCs, two OCs, two offensive systems, two GMs, no offensive depth.

Every target Darnold established a rapport with from day 1 — outside of Chris Herndon, who has barely seen the field — is gone or missed significant playing time  — from Deontay Burnett to Robbie Anderson.

Deontay Burnett

Demarius Thomas

Quincy Enunwa 

Robbie Anderson

Chris Herndon

LeVeon Bell

Jamison Crowder 

Every single OL playing this year is new. Every one. They still stink. But the ones before were so bad they ALL had to be replaced.

Darnold will always have his share of gaffes but the situation can not be judged without context.
 

 

[shrekman1]

Add him to the list of USC qb's that looks good in college but are not good enough for the NFL

[Losmeister]

please help me out here...  who else in the NFL throws the ball like this?

not even talking about WHERE he threw it...  he doesn't know how to use his lower bodyto drive the ball...it's all arm...

and there is no pressure...