Sam Darnold is a bust

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Time is running out for sure. New coaching staff and a draft/off-season with a focus on upgrading the offensive weapons could make a big difference. Draft jamarr and a center in the first, sign juju, and run a sane offense. Let's see how that goes.

If JD has a top draft pick and invests in Darnold for year 4, there goes my optimism for him.

There is simply no actual evidence that it is a smart move. Especially when you consider that Darnold's cheap years are almost up.

[ZachEY]

37 minutes ago, jgb said:

That Sam sucks.

my god it's like tee ball.

[jgb]

Just now, TeddEY said:

my god it's like tee ball.

[Wonderboy]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

A helpful thought exercise when deciding how vocally to fight for your position is ask yourself "if I get one more data point that runs contrary to my position, will I pull a 180 and completely flip my opinion overnight?"  

This was not a knee jerk reaction. It was more a divine moment of clarity....a gift from the divine to see things clearly.  I was lured like Faust by worldly pleasures and like Faust, I have been resurrected. 

In the end Faust goes to heaven, because he loses only half the bet. Angels, who arrive as messengers of God's mercy, say at the end of Act 5: "He who strives on and lives to strive/ Can earn redemption still" (i.e. anyone who tries hard in life can still be saved).

 

 

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

People see him make the occasional great Houdini play (escape the rush, buy time, roll out, profit) and compare him to guys like Big Ben, Wilson, etc. - and then point out that a lot of elite QBs make plays like that. But what they miss is that those guys also consistently (and repeatedly) make good decisions/throws from the pocket. They don't just show flashes of brilliance. They are consistently good to very good and then top things off with those miraculous plays when they need them. 

even on that TD... Herndonis open for a FD in the middel of t he field....thats a BIG WINDOW

but he doesnt throw the ball....leaves the pocket...

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

You know what would be a baller move? JD passes on a QB with the Jets' (almost-certainly top 3) pick. And then uses SEA's pick to take a lesser touted QB.

That would take serious cojones.

You wanna be a baller?  Shot caller? 

In 2018 DeCosta traded #16 and 5th for #22 (the pick Buffalo got for trading the Mahomes pick to the Chiefs) and a 3rd.  Then he traded #22 and a 6th for #25 and a fourth.  Then he took Hayden Hurst - since traded with a 4th for a 2nd and 5th.  Only then did he trade back into the first round, traded his 2nd in 2018 and 2019 and a fourth for the super bowl champion Eagles 1st and slightly later 4th.  

I would hope Douglas learned enough with DeCosta and has the balls.  I wouldn't wait until a later round because for a QB that 5th year option is ultra-important.    

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You wanna be a baller?  Shot caller? 

In 2018 DeCosta traded #16 and 5th for #22 (the pick Buffalo got for trading the Mahomes pick to the Chiefs) and a 3rd.  Then he traded #22 and a 6th for #25 and a fourth.  Then he took Hayden Hurst - since traded with a 4th for a 2nd and 5th.  Only then did he trade back into the first round, traded his 2nd in 2018 and 2019 and a fourth for the super bowl champion Eagles 1st and slightly later 4th.  

I would hope Douglas learned enough with DeCosta and has the balls.  I wouldn't wait until a later round because for a QB that 5th year option is ultra-important.    

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

even on that TD... Herndonis open for a FD in the middel of t he field....thats a BIG WINDOW

but he doesnt throw the ball....leaves the pocket...

He's playing scared. No downfield vision, happy feet. TOAST 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You wanna be a baller?  Shot caller?   

20 inch blades on the impala

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

20 inch blades on the impala

My buddy has an older Impala station wagon with 20's and whitewall tires. 

[Barry McCockinner]

26 minutes ago, jgb said:

If JD has a top draft pick and invests in Darnold for year 4, there goes my optimism for him.

There is simply no actual evidence that it is a smart move. Especially when you consider that Darnold's cheap years are almost up.

It's an investment in the offense. Regardless of whether Darnold is the guy, we need to build a better offense so any QB can have success. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's an investment in the offense. Regardless of whether Darnold is the guy, we need to build a better offense so any QB can have success. 

JD is drafting a QB early. The only thing that can stop that now is a improbable and, frankly, unforeseeable winning streak.

[ZachEY]

You know, I said this at the time (there's definitely a post if anyone's inclined), and then I convinced myself not to believe it after the pro-day, and really when he fell to us, but the combine should have told you everything you needed to know about Sam Darnold.

Darnold chose to run, but not to throw.

The optics were just disastrous too.  As he stood there with his thumb in his ass, next to Mayfield, Allen, and Rosen, who were all slinging the ball around, showing what they could do.  Darnold just watched.  It was cringeworthy to watch it unfold.

https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/video/1179088451509

 

 

[kdels62]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

If JD has a top draft pick and invests in Darnold for year 4, there goes my optimism for him.

There is simply no actual evidence that it is a smart move. Especially when you consider that Darnold's cheap years are almost up.

I’ve been thinking about it and I wouldn’t hate building the roster up. Assume a top 5 and bottom 5 of the first round draft pick this year. This team is far from a safe landing spot for a young QB with holes up and down the defense and little depth on the offense. 5 picks in the top 100 can really give us a platform to nurture a prospect next year or the year after. Play out Sam’s rookie deal sans the 5th-year option and let him compete with James Morgan. 

With NYJ1 - Caleb Farley CB, or Jamarr Chase WR or Greg Rousseau, Edge 

With Seattle1- Shaun Wade CB, or Jaylen Waddle WR, or Carlos Bashem Edge, or Wyatt Davis OG, or Alex Leatherwood OT, 

With NYJ2 - Chris Olave WR (exclusively, I love him so much) 

With NYJ3 - Creed Humphries C 

With Seattle3 - Idk like Kylin Hill RB or something 

If the team gets through 2021 and we have a foundation use our 2 first rounders to get the QB we want.

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

You know, I said this at the time (there's definitely a post if anyone's inclined), and then I convinced myself not to believe it after the pro-day, and really when he fell to us, but the combine should have told you everything you needed to know about Sam Darnold.

Darnold chose to run, but not to throw.

The optics were just disastrous too.  As he stood there with his thumb in his ass, next to Mayfield, Allen, and Rosen, who were all slinging the ball around, showing what they could do.  Darnold just watched.  It was cringeworthy to watch it unfold.

https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/video/1179088451509

 

 

Here it is:

 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I’ve been thinking about it and I wouldn’t hate building the roster up. Assume a top 5 and bottom 5 of the first round draft pick this year. This team is far from a safe landing spot for a young QB with holes up and down the defense and little depth on the offense. 5 picks in the top 100 can really give us a platform to nurture a prospect next year or the year after. Play out Sam’s rookie deal sans the 5th-year option and let him compete with James Morgan. 

With NYJ1 - Caleb Farley CB, or Jamarr Chase WR or Greg Rousseau, Edge 

With Seattle1- Shaun Wade CB, or Jaylen Waddle WR, or Carlos Bashem Edge, or Wyatt Davis OG, or Alex Leatherwood OT, 

With NYJ2 - Chris Olave WR (exclusively, I love him so much) 

With NYJ3 - Creed Humphries C 

With Seattle3 - Idk like Kylin Hill RB or something 

If the team gets through 2021 and we have a foundation use our 2 first rounders to get the QB we want.

The problem is GMs don't think this way. They think like Thomas Dimitroff: "Until you find your quarterback, the search for him consumes you."

Some GMs go their entire career without a #1 overall pick. I just cannot see JD passing on taking his guy (which I believe 99% will be Lawrence).

 

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

I don’t see how anyone can conclude that darnold isn’t part of the problem.

[DetroitRed]

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

even on that TD... Herndonis open for a FD in the middel of t he field....thats a BIG WINDOW

but he doesnt throw the ball....leaves the pocket...

Not Darnold's fault! Look at that terrible protection! He got 6--max 8--seconds to release on this play! 

[Rangers9]

I don't believe he's a bust. I still think he is much better than Mark Sanchez the previous USC projected Jets franchise Qb of the future. Actually Sanchez is only 33 years old. He could/should still be here. But the performance by Sam on Sunday reminded me of him a lot.  

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't believe he's a bust. I still think he is much better than Mark Sanchez the previous USC projected Jets franchise Qb of the future. Actually Sanchez is only 33 years old. He could/should still be here. But the performance by Sam on Sunday reminded me of him a lot.  

The league gave up on him too quickly!!!  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

You know, I said this at the time (there's definitely a post if anyone's inclined), and then I convinced myself not to believe it after the pro-day, and really when he fell to us, but the combine should have told you everything you needed to know about Sam Darnold.

Darnold chose to run, but not to throw.

The optics were just disastrous too.  As he stood there with his thumb in his ass, next to Mayfield, Allen, and Rosen, who were all slinging the ball around, showing what they could do.  Darnold just watched.  It was cringeworthy to watch it unfold.

https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/video/1179088451509

 

 

And he chooses to boogie board over surf.  Such an enormous red flag.

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't believe he's a bust. I still think he is much better than Mark Sanchez the previous USC projected Jets franchise Qb of the future. Actually Sanchez is only 33 years old. He could/should still be here. But the performance by Sam on Sunday reminded me of him a lot.  

At this point in Mark Sanchez's career, he was 4-2 in the playoffs beating Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in their house.

 

[Icer]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The league gave up on him too quickly!!!  

but what if the Steelers Patriots sign him and win 13 games next year

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

At this point in Mark Sanchez's career, he was 4-2 in the playoffs beating Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in their house.

Wait I thought Rex did that in spite of Sanchez?  Now its Sanchez who gets the credit?

I'm so confused.

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wait I thought Rex did that in spite of Sanchez?  Now its Sanchez who gets the credit?

I'm so confused.

Yep, that's just how bad Darnold is.  I mean, Rex would overcome it because he's Rex but if we're comparing careers/players, it's not close.

[joewilly12]

This guy is available on the Tampa Bay practice squad. 

 

 

 

[redlichtie]

18 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Therein lies the problem my friend.  Our organization has always operated with this same exact mindset and it’s exactly why we have always half-assed the rebuilds necessary to change everything and beckons a consistent winner.  

His first draft pick was a high upside prospect at a premium position that already looks like he can be something special.

His second draft pick was a high upside WR who was looked at by many as a first rounder.  Another premium position too.

Perine looks like he could be a player.

Bryce Hall is a guy I predict will be a fantastic pick when we look back on it.

My point is, for the first time in my years as a Jets fan, I walked away from the draft without scratching my head and hoping that the guys in charge knew better than me.  Gone are the days of not taking a fantastic prospect at a premium position because the safe/low upside  “BPA” is there.  That, alone, is enough to get me pumped on what JD can do over the next few years. 

Good post fella and for sure I agree on the premise of patience and I’m willing to see a team lose if I can buy into the project and see the rebuild bearing fruit in some form or another, but I just don’t see how the regression here is anything other than worrying...yes to having a plan, even a plan that involves sacrificing short term success today for a sustainable winning culture down the road, but merely having a plan and actually being able to competently execute it are two entirely different things.
 

I want to see convincing evidence that JD is up to it

like you I loved how he played the draft, it’s a long time since we had a GM who did such a great job of manoeuvring and adding capital without sacrificing quality or quantity.

I too felt pretty good about what we had come away with but disappointed in the extreme that a historically deep WR draft garnered only Mims(who let’s not forget, JD passed on when given the opportunity at 48)compounded by the failure to resign Robby, and yet again little attention paid to the criminally neglected edge rush. Leaving Darnold with a even less weapons than he’s had the previous two years is negligent 

The Becton pick looks like a home run .....until yesterday when yet another injury strikes him down, let’s hope it’s not serious. As for the rest of the class We’ll have to see what we have if any of the other guys can get on the field but if all you do is throw them into a hopeless sh!tshow there’s no chance they can flourish ....zero.....we are just as likely to destroy their confidenc and end up ruining talent the way we are ruining what talent Darnold has/had

.
This is my point about needing to put at least something competitive on the field. We need to at least see some development, some adding of depth, some progress with young players. Clearly part of that is down to Gase giving Frank Gore 20 plus carries rather than riding with Adams and Perine but you can hardly blame AG if he’s coaching for his life and doesn’t trust the talent he’s been given.
 

The regression of Sam just compounds things, is he a total bust or is the talent there in the right situation? Who knows....but he legit has an argument that he is playing with historically bad talent at every position. as of now we are looking at the Seattle Pick being a very late 1st ...and the top 5 pick we are heading for is going to have to be on yet another QB....so elite talent at Edge, WR, CB, OG, DL and pretty much everywhere else will have to wait another year.

and if all that wasn’t enough, I’d just like to be entertained, I just want to enjoy watching my team play on a Sunday.
 

I want hope. 

 

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

At this point in Mark Sanchez's career, he was 4-2 in the playoffs beating Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in their house.

 

Sanchez and Rex get much credit for those two playoff runs. But that was two seasons and for both of them it went downhill after that. And some of it was on the backs of other people. IMO both deserved to be fired. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[greenwichjetfan]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

This is what I am thinking.  I am far from bullish on Darnold, but I am nowhere near as bearish as we've become.  I am sort of in limbo because they hired a sh*tty coach that I expected to fail.  None of this is coming as a surprise to me.  I am not investing the entire future in Darnold, but there is still hope IMO. I fully expected the sh*tshow yesterday and I expect normal mediocre on Thursday.

This, exactly. I don't think I've ever agreed with every single word of a post more.

As someone who expected Gase to be a disaster even before day 1, and someone who saw what Idzik and Macc did to this roster, none of this is a surprise. And as someone who saw Sam actually take developmental steps near the end of 2018 only to have a known loser come in as his HC/OC, it's hard for me to fully evaluate Darnold. It's become en-vogue to completely trash him and lump him in with scrubs like trubisky and sanchez, and I guess I can't really fault people for it...he's certainly proving his Bust quotient true right now. Still, I can't possibly be as bearish on him as others are when I knew going into 2019 and into 2020 that we were going in with one of the worst rosters in the league and certainly the worst HC+OC in the league. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The situation is beyond awful and the organization should be ashamed of its attempt to build a winning team around him. I could see him putting it all together and becoming a good starter down the road, but I am pretty sure that is not going to happen here. 

Probably not, but Alex Smith was something like 19-31 with San Francisco.  His TD:INT was almost even, though it had been improving.  Harbaugh came in and he went 13-3 and was 6-2-1 in the Super Bowl year when he went down.  His TD:INT was 30:10 during those two seasons.  He went to KC and continued to play some really good ball, even going 6-4 with a Redskins team that went 1-5 without him, finishing the same 7-9 they did with Cousins. 

It isn't likely, but it's not unheard of.  Still isn't something to wait around on and financially it may well make sense to move on even if Darnold does become a good starter.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Probably not, but Alex Smith was something like 19-31 with San Francisco.  His TD:INT was almost even, though it had been improving.  Harbaugh came in and he went 13-3 and was 6-2-1 in the Super Bowl year when he went down.  His TD:INT was 30:10 during those two seasons.  He went to KC and continued to play some really good ball, even going 6-4 with a Redskins team that went 1-5 without him, finishing the same 7-9 they did with Cousins. 

It isn't likely, but it's not unheard of.  Still isn't something to wait around on and financially it may well make sense to move on even if Darnold does become a good starter.

Again, those were teams with good supporting casts.  The jets have a bottom 5 OL and wrs and rbs.  I think you need minimum competence at some other positions and the HC or OC to develop a qb, you can’t suck everywhere else at 9 of the other 10 positions and then when the offense blows, blame it on the qb.  If you look at other teams that have drafted qbs in recent years, they had either good HCs or good weapons or even a good OL. Cleveland, buffalo, Baltimore, KC, Houston, cincy, chargers, cardinals.  The new qbs didn’t enter into a situation where they had no help at any position and the coaching also sucked.  The only other qb who came into that kind of scenario was Daniel jones and he also sucks.  I just don’t think jones and darnold suck as bad as they’re playing, they just have zero help everywhere else.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Again, those were teams with good supporting casts.  The jets have a bottom 5 OL and wrs and rbs.  I think you need minimum competence at some other positions and the HC or OC to develop a qb, you can’t suck everywhere else at 9 of the other 10 positions and then when the offense blows, blame it on the qb.  If you look at other teams that have drafted qbs in recent years, they had either good HCs or good weapons or even a good OL. Cleveland, buffalo, Baltimore, KC, Houston, cincy, chargers, cardinals.  The new qbs didn’t enter into a situation where they had no help at any position and the coaching also sucked.  The only other qb who came into that kind of scenario was Daniel jones and he also sucks.  I just don’t think jones and darnold suck as bad as they’re playing, they just have zero help everywhere else.

Exactly. That is the terminus of the "supporting cast" arguments. But some want to ride it to "Darnold is secretly an elite QB in hiding" town.