To be clear; 0% chance Jets trade OUT of #2 and still take a QB

[T0mShane]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Donovan McNabb 

Archie Manning

I never said the pick should be Zach Wilson. 

Archie Manning.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Archie Manning.

 

[FidelioJet]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

All the QBs drafted at #2 in the last 20 years

Mitch Trubisky

Carson Wentz

Marcus Mariota

RGIII

 

Zack Wilson would be the least talented player on that list, btw

He would actually be the most talented on that list.  Easily.  It's really not even close.

Skill-set for the NFL - Zach Wilson is as talented a prospect as you're going to find.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

He would actually be the most talented on that list.  Easily.  It's really not even close.

Skill-set for the NFL - Zach Wilson is as talented a prospect as you're going to find.

RGIII ran a 4.3/40 and could throw the ball 80 yards from his knees. Zack Wilson won’t break a 4.8/40

[PepPep]

22 hours ago, Paradis said:

I understand this is a pompous position to take but I’m seeing some of you pull the Charlie Day gif here with trades back and taking Lance, or whomever etc. 

that will never happen. If you love a QB you don’t fck around. Joe doesn’t love Lance at 8. He either loves him at #2 or not at all. There is no cake and eat it too scenario. 

Trade back means Darnold and playmakers.  Pick your side of the Fence. 

I agree. The only unlikely outlier is a trade down with Miami at 3 if Miami really wants Sewell and is not sure if the Jets are considering him. They could throw the Jets a draft pick to move to #2 and secure Sewell, allowing the Jets to still take their QB. Again, unlikely, but could still happen. 

[JetsFanShawn]

22 hours ago, Paradis said:

I understand this is a pompous position to take but I’m seeing some of you pull the Charlie Day gif here with trades back and taking Lance, or whomever etc. 

that will never happen. If you love a QB you don’t fck around. Joe doesn’t love Lance at 8. He either loves him at #2 or not at all. There is no cake and eat it too scenario. 

Trade back means Darnold and playmakers.  Pick your side of the Fence. 

we gottaget our biggest need a QB RB

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

That’s 20-20 hindsight. Not really working against my point which is prospective looking. 
 

You can’t hope your franchise QB is there if you trade back. Not if you are absolutely convinced he’s your guy. 
 

Gettleman may have miscalculated but he made his choice and stuck with it. He could have gotten stuck with Dwayne Haskins which would have been worse. Jones may still be serviceable. 

Right, everyone who drafts a QB in the first is going for serviceable. 

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Right, everyone who drafts a QB in the first is going for serviceable. 

Still missing the point. 
 

Well done Sir. 

[#27TheDominator]

23 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

Agree for the most part, but I could see a scenario where we trade down (with the expectation we are building around Sam) and a QB is on the board at 23 or 34 that presents too much value for Joe Douglas to pass up (Mac Jones or Trey Lance being the most obvious possibilities).

Then I could see them taking a QB with the idea they can compete with Sam in camp, and/or can be a long term answer if Sam spits the bit this year.

This is how I feel.  I don't think you trade down and then think you are drafing your QB of the future or 2021 starter.  OTOH, I think these guys subsribe to the QB a year plan, and the QB as commodity plant.  Those guys draft QBs whenever they feel they are a value.  

[More Cowbell]

12 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Still missing the point. 
 

Well done Sir. 

I know what you are saying. Gettleman had conviction that Jones was the guy and didn't  wait even though most likely considering the talent still available when he picked, he could have traded down and Jones most likely woild still be there. He didn't  take the chance so he reached and I am saying it backfired on him badly. You are making a poor case for this. 

[Peace Frog]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

I know what you are saying. Gettleman had conviction that Jones was the guy and didn't  wait even though most likely considering the talent still available when he picked, he could have traded down and Jo es most likely won still be there. He didn't  take the chance so he reached.ni am saying it backfired on him badly. Ypu are making a poor case for this. 

And again you are using 20-20 hindsight to argue something that I’m not. 
 

Well done. Again. 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes. If they believe he’s the best QB at 2. They’re taking him at 2. 
You don’t mess around with the QB position.  

Yeah, no.  I disagree.  If Mac was a projected top 10 sure, but you're not taking Mac Wilson at #2 with the draft capital you have knowing he's probably going to be there at #23.

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

All the QBs drafted at #2 in the last 20 years

Mitch Trubisky

Carson Wentz

Marcus Mariota

RGIII

 

Zack Wilson would be the least talented player on that list, btw

He pretty much is, Mitch Trubisky.  Except dainty. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

He pretty much is, Mitch Trubisky.  Except dainty. 

I saw RGIII at Top Golf in Loudon Virginia back when he played for the WFT. I was shocked by how skinny his legs were, dude was born to run and not get hit. Did hurdles in college. Dainty!

[JustInFudge]

Just now, The Crusher said:

I saw RGIII at Top Golf in Loudon Virginia back when he played for the WFT. I was shocked by how skinny his legs were, dude was born to run and not get hit. Did hurdles in college. Dainty!

Sounds sexy AF

[Dunnie]

RGIII ran a 4.3/40 and could throw the ball 80 yards from his knees. Zack Wilson won’t break a 4.8/40

How fast is Tom Brady again???

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Warfish]

23 hours ago, Paradis said:

I understand this is a pompous position to take but I’m seeing some of you pull the Charlie Day gif here with trades back and taking Lance, or whomever etc. 

that will never happen. If you love a QB you don’t fck around. Joe doesn’t love Lance at 8. He either loves him at #2 or not at all. There is no cake and eat it too scenario. 

Trade back means Darnold and playmakers.  Pick your side of the Fence. 

I agree, sort of.

I don't think they trade back (giving up Fields and Wilson) to take Trey Lance at #5, #8, #10 or whathaveyou.  100% agree.

I think if they trade down, and Mac Jones is sitting available at #34, yes, I think there is a chance (not a very high one per se) they could take him.

More, I think if there is a QB they like later on (I'm thinking Trask, obviously) that falls into the third, I could see JD pulling a Capt. Morgan, and taking him.

But generally, I think you're right.  If JD wants a QB, he's taking one at #2 overall, and that likely means Wilson (sadly, IMO).

If he does not go QB at #2, or trades down, we will likely see Darnold (Option A), a Veteran FA QB (Option B), or some kind of Morgan/Trask/Nick Mullins or similar trade/FA competition (Very unlikely Option 3)

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, mfmartin said:

You can’t compare Geno Smith/Christian Hackenberg because they were 2nd round picks. Your only comparison that is comparable is Sanchez.  What I am saying if the Jets think the guy is a FQB, then they should take him at 2 even if they have him rated at 5. 

I don't disagree with this and no one does as far as i can tell but you could have a QB like Trey Lance rated say at a level of 15 to 20 but not a number 1 pick and you might drop down and then pick him up. 
 

Obviously if the Jets believe that a QB IS worth the Number 2 pick they should draft them.  

[bitonti]

0 percent is very small 

I agree it's a remote possibility. But it's not 0 percent 

"just to be clear" 

[Fantasy Island]

5 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Couldn't agree more.

If the Jets really believe in one of these QB's they will take that player with the #2 pick.

If Charlie Casserly mocks a pick for us, don't pick that one.

[Snell41]

Just wondering, historically, who has traded out of the top 5 and then grabbed QB as their highest pick that year? If it is so logical would it not happen often?

Pretty sure BAL did, then traded up from 2 to get Lamar Jackson.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

RGIII ran a 4.3/40 and could throw the ball 80 yards from his knees. Zack Wilson won’t break a 4.8/40

I didn’t know that running fast makes you a good NFL QB prospect.  My fault.  

Pat Mahomes - 4.8

Aaron Rodger - 4.71

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Yeah, no.  I disagree.  If Mac was a projected top 10 sure, but you're not taking Mac Wilson at #2 with the draft capital you have knowing he's probably going to be there at #23.

 

I get what you’re saying. Honestly, but JD can’t look at projections.  He has to look at his own rankings.  
if he believes Mac Jones is the future franchise QB - you take him as soon as you can get him. Again, just my opinion on that - I can see your position for sure.

[adb280z]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:23 PM, Peace Frog said:

 

If you have 2 QBs you don't have any QBs.  

I hate that saying.  GB once had 2 QBs.  One went to the HOF and the other will as soon as he's eligible.

[Peace Frog]

23 minutes ago, adb280z said:

I hate that saying.  GB once had 2 QBs.  One went to the HOF and the other will as soon as he's eligible.

Not analogous. That was a once in a lifetime (or twice Montana Young) occurrence. 
 

Look at Philly or Chicago or Arizona or pretty much every other place that’s had two QBs. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Who has a franchise QB graded at 23?

If you think your franchise QB is available at 23 you better trade up to 15.  Or 10. Or 8. Or stay at 2. 

If you have afranchise QB graded at 23 there are teams out there that have him graded similarly or higher.

You can NOT get cute at this position and "hope" to "luck out".

In fairness, Douglas comes from the school of thought that did just what you mention in 2008 when he was a Ravens scout.

Baltimore liked Flacco plenty but not way up at #8, because they felt no one had him ranked nearly that highly (and they were correct). So they traded down to #26 even though there was a 1st round QB prospect they viewed as a FQB. They ended up trading back up again (to #18) because, when you're that close, then you don't get too cute with it.

If a guy is projected around #20-25 like Flacco, you don't take him #2 no matter how much you love him. Maybe overdraft him a handful of slots because at that point the extra pick you're surrendering by forgoing perfect (read: hindsight) timing is so low he's unlikely to make enough of a difference to risk losing the team's QB.

It was the right move for them: they got the guy they wanted, plus an extra day 2 pick & more I think (and he was a good enough QB to win them a SB and get hot through the playoffs to get there, though his first couple years' playoff performances left much to be desired). It's also true that, despite the free net pick(s), they didn't draft anyone worthwhile with the extra pick(s). 

There's also an obvious - and significant - difference in that the bounty for trading down from #2 is not a linear drop, the way it is when you're starting out already at #8. The difference between #2 and #8 (if there's a consensus must-take QB at #2, with a near-consensus dropoff after him) is already at least an extra 1st round pick. Dropping from #8 to #26 got Baltimore a pair of 3rd rounders and a lower 4th. Jets would get more than that for dropping just 1-2 slots, and dropping even 3-4 slots should net the value of a current mid-1st rounder (see Jets' 2018 trade-up). 

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness, Douglas comes from the school of thought that did just what you mention in 2008 when he was a Ravens scout.

Baltimore liked Flacco plenty but not way up at #8, because they felt no one had him ranked nearly that highly (and they were correct). So they traded down to #26 even though there was a 1st round QB prospect they viewed as a FQB. They ended up trading back up again (to #18) because, when you're that close, then you don't get too cute with it.

If a guy is projected around #20-25 like Flacco, you don't take him #2 no matter how much you love him. Maybe overdraft him a handful of slots because at that point the extra pick you're surrendering by forgoing perfect (read: hindsight) timing is so low he's unlikely to make enough of a difference to risk losing the team's QB.

It was the right move for them: they got the guy they wanted, plus an extra day 2 pick & more I think (and he was a good enough QB to win them a SB and get hot through the playoffs to get there, though his first couple years' playoff performances left much to be desired). It's also true that, despite the free net pick(s), they didn't draft anyone worthwhile with the extra pick(s). 

There's also an obvious - and significant - difference in that the bounty for trading down from #2 is not a linear drop, the way it is when you're starting out already at #8. The difference between #2 and #8 (if there's a consensus must-take QB at #2, with a near-consensus dropoff after him) is already at least an extra 1st round pick. Dropping from #8 to #26 got Baltimore a pair of 3rd rounders and a lower 4th. Jets would get more than that for dropping just 1-2 slots, and dropping even 3-4 slots should net the value of a current mid-1st rounder (see Jets' 2018 trade-up). 

I’m going to need sauces on this. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I’m going to need sauces on this. 

lol

• Douglas was a scout with Baltimore from 2000-2014.
• Flacco was drafted in 2008.
• Baltimore started with pick #8 and ended up drafting Flacco at pick #18. 

#sauces

[rangerous]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness, Douglas comes from the school of thought that did just what you mention in 2008 when he was a Ravens scout.

Baltimore liked Flacco plenty but not way up at #8, because they felt no one had him ranked nearly that highly (and they were correct). So they traded down to #26 even though there was a 1st round QB prospect they viewed as a FQB. They ended up trading back up again (to #18) because, when you're that close, then you don't get too cute with it.

If a guy is projected around #20-25 like Flacco, you don't take him #2 no matter how much you love him. Maybe overdraft him a handful of slots because at that point the extra pick you're surrendering by forgoing perfect (read: hindsight) timing is so low he's unlikely to make enough of a difference to risk losing the team's QB.

It was the right move for them: they got the guy they wanted, plus an extra day 2 pick & more I think (and he was a good enough QB to win them a SB and get hot through the playoffs to get there, though his first couple years' playoff performances left much to be desired). It's also true that, despite the free net pick(s), they didn't draft anyone worthwhile with the extra pick(s). 

There's also an obvious - and significant - difference in that the bounty for trading down from #2 is not a linear drop, the way it is when you're starting out already at #8. The difference between #2 and #8 (if there's a consensus must-take QB at #2, with a near-consensus dropoff after him) is already at least an extra 1st round pick. Dropping from #8 to #26 got Baltimore a pair of 3rd rounders and a lower 4th. Jets would get more than that for dropping just 1-2 slots, and dropping even 3-4 slots should net the value of a current mid-1st rounder (see Jets' 2018 trade-up). 

good points.  i wouldn't mind seeing the jets trade down even if they have wilson or_______ as the second coming.  sure teams will have the really good prospects rated highly but i'm sure douglas will assess the teams between the number 2 pick and where they end up.  obviously some team may jump in and grab the guy ahead of the jets but that's why douglas gets the big bucks.  and like you said, the two pick is a premium pick and worthy of some serious extra picks if they do trade down.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lol

• Douglas was a scout with Baltimore from 2000-2014.
• Flacco was drafted in 2008.
• Baltimore started with pick #8 and ended up drafting Flacco at pick #18. 

#sauces

“Baltimore liked Flacco plenty but not way up at #8”

Sauces. Produce. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

“Baltimore liked Flacco plenty but not way up at #8”

Sauces. Produce. 

Wut?

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

“Baltimore liked Flacco plenty but not way up at #8”

Sauces. Produce. 

He just produced his sauces in the post you quoted.

Baltimore had pick 8, drafted flacco at 18

So they liked him enough to pick in the 1st round but not enough to pick at 8.

Baltimore also trade down (16th pick) and then ended up taking lamar jackson at 32

So Baltimore and Ozzie Newsome, Douglas's mentor has twice done exactly what Paradis said is a 0% chance to happen.

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He just produced his sauces in the post you quoted.

Baltimore had pick 8, drafted flacco at 18

So they liked him enough to pick in the 1st round but not enough to pick at 8.

Baltimore also trade down (16th pick) and then ended up taking lamar jackson at 32

So Baltimore and Ozzie Newsome, Douglas's mentor has twice done exactly what Paradis said is a 0% chance to happen.

Speculation. 

Not a sauce. 

Was he in the building? 

Or is he engaging in conjecture? 

 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

Speculation. 

Not a sauce. 

Was he in the building? 

Or is he engaging in conjecture? 

 

Pretty well logical deductive reasoning.

[MykePM]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Speculation. 

Not a sauce. 

Was he in the building? 

Or is he engaging in conjecture? 

 

I think you’re confusing a few of us here.  If you’re looking for “sauces” that the Ravens liked Flacco and Jackson, but not with the 8th or 16th pick (respectively), the obvious proof is that they did not draft those guys with the earlier pick when they had the chance but then did draft them with a later pick.

If you’re requesting verification that conversations actually took place in the Ravens war room where Ozzie and team said “We can get <Flacco or Jackson> now, but it’s too high for them, so let’s trade out and see if we can get them later”, that probably won’t happen.