***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

We need to churn and burn GM's every 2 years and not stop until we get one that hits 70% of his draft picks and free agent acquisitions. 

There have been some terrible takes on this board, like unbelievably bad...this might take the cake.

[playtowinthegame]

10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Fans that say “seeing excitement in players eyes” “seeing passion on the field”, pretty much are the earmark for me that, “this particular fan just has never played organized sports, nor understands what takes place”. Carry on.  

I see 3 wins and a *MOD (Margin of Defeat) of -13.4, since 2020 after Joey had 10 months to prepare for his job of making the 2019 Jets, who finished 7-9, better. I see a lot of excuses being made about the "cupboards" being bare. One thing that isn't bare is the excuse machine for Sleepy Joe Douglas.

*Worst in the NFL

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I have been saying it for over 5 years. I authored a  thread here, and excuse as I forget the gentleman’s name “ xxxxxxx Please step Down”. Ironically, a couple  of months later, he did. But the Jets did not fill the position with that type of overseeing of operations. Someone that smooths the patch for the GM, provides them with tools and information that help them do their job, and serves as a buffer between ownership and the position. It is not a unique idea, and many successful organizations do this.

Are you really concerned about the Johnson’s spending a drop in the bucket more for this? Really? How short sighted.

Honest question and I dont know the answer and maybe he's just the wrong dude but didnt they hire Hymie Elhai in that vein?  

[SAR I]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Fans that say “seeing excitement in players eyes” “seeing passion on the field”, pretty much are the earmark for me that, “this particular fan just has never played organized sports, nor understands what takes place”. Carry on.  

I've got three kids who played organized sports through the high school level, I've spent more time at games and practices in locker rooms, ice rinks, football fields, soccer fields, and baseball diamonds than you have, trust me.

More importantly, I'm a professional fan.  I can tell when a team is busting their asses or just mailing it in, I can tell when a team is well-coached and when they look lost.  This isn't hard.  Especially as a Jets fan.  We've seen these dynamics for decades.  Herm, Eric, Rex, Todd, and Adam in their first seasons had their teams bouncing and excited, they played a ton of close games, won some, lost others.  If not for two lucky 50/50 balls during the last 10 minutes of the Titans game, this team would be seen as the lifeless and clueless group they actually are.  Wipe that game out of your mind, we got our asses kicked by the Patriots and Falcons, league doormats.  I'm pretty sure the Panthers are a farce too.

SAR I  

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Honest question and I dont know the answer and maybe he's just the wrong dude but didnt they hire Hymie Elhai in that vein?  

Hymie has been with Woody since the beginning. His expertise as I am led to believe is business development. Not football operations. 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

There have been some terrible takes on this board, like unbelievably bad...this might take the cake.

Says the Jets fan who has seen, over and over again, how we latch onto some nobody that nobody thinks is great, gives them too much time, and then can't wait until we show them the door?

Joe Douglas is another Mike Maccagnan.  Just another nobody from a front office that interviewed well.  Hell, Joe Douglas' player selection makes Mike Maccagnan look good.  Think about that for a moment.  Douglas' hit rate is as bad as John Idzik and Douglas has been here longer than Idzik.

The Jets need to be decisive.  If Joe Douglas were good at picking players, we'd have better players, we wouldn't be #32 in the NFL.  He's been here 30 months.  Time to go.  The odds that he becomes an elite GM after this type of start are, what, less than 10%.

SAR I

[Saul Goodman]

Imagine looking at Joe Douglas’ draft picks and then proclaiming that he is not a (or the) problem. Do people here watch teams other than the Jets? He’s an abomination. Completely unacceptable. Stop settling for last place! 

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I've got three kids who played organized sports through the high school level, I've spent more time at games and practices in locker rooms, ice rinks, football fields, soccer fields, and baseball diamonds than you have, trust me.

SAR I  

And your supposition would be wrong. And that is ok. 

“Professional Fan”. How clownish

[kevinc855]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Since I have never interviewed any of these types, I have no idea. The fly in the ointment is the Johnsons hiring this position, granted.  But it would be a good start.

While I have your attention, Little Kevin, why don’t you answer the question I posed to you earlier in this thread—Who were the “foundation” players that JD inherited on this roster. I will wait.  

ah so another novel idea with no realistic out one

Umm seriously? Robbie, Adams, Darnold, leo, Jenkins maye…nice core going

By the way calling me little kevin speaks volumes of your maturity  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I've got three kids who played organized sports through the high school level, I've spent more time at games and practices in locker rooms, ice rinks, football fields, soccer fields, and baseball diamonds than you have, trust me.

More importantly, I'm a professional fan.  I can tell when a team is busting their asses or just mailing it in, I can tell when a team is well-coached and when they look lost.  This isn't hard.  Especially as a Jets fan.  We've seen these dynamics for decades.  Herm, Eric, Rex, Todd, and Adam in their first seasons had their teams bouncing and excited, they played a ton of close games, won some, lost others.  If not for two lucky 50/50 balls during the last 10 minutes of the Titans game, this team would be seen as the lifeless and clueless group they actually are.  Wipe that game out of your mind, we got our asses kicked by the Patriots and Falcons, league doormats.  I'm pretty sure the Panthers are a farce too.

SAR I  

Your credibility regarding your ability to tell when a team is well-coached goes down the toilet because you continually point to the 7-9 finish in 2019 as some sort of accomplishment and as an indication that Gase was a good coach.   Virtually everybody else saw it for the mirage it was and saw Gase as the disaster that he was.  

I had two sons play organized sports through high school and one played some in college and I coached two sports as well at the youth level for 10+ years. I also consider myself a rabid sports fan and have been my entire life.  And I believe it is just too early to tell anything about the GM, Coaching staff,  and the players.  History is filled with teams that struggle under new regimes and then turn it around.

The thing that most fans ignore is the tremendous loss Knapp was for the organization and that loss is showing now and you can't just plug a giant hole like that during the season.  It is impacting Saleh, Lafleur, the offense, Wilson, the young receivers - all down the line.  

[doitny]

51 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's sort of my point.  We're the Jets, we're the worst destination in all of sports, so we don't attract A or B caliber talent.

 

Saleh was one of the top HC candidates out there.

as far as players go , well winning win make good players come here. 

53 minutes ago, SAR I said:

 

It seems like every time we flip head coaches things get worse, and with Gase the thing he excelled at was keeping a broken, injured, flawed roster with a hopeless losing record together, playing focused, acting professionally, and winning games.  That's exactly what we need now and we know Gase was good at it.  Saleh?  We haven't seen him hit the abyss yet but we know the players aren't playing very hard and that's against his 'no brake' philosophy.

 

what is your proof Gase can do all that? the 7-9 record? i dont see how thats proof of anything. 

we dont know anything about Saleh yet. not you, not me, none of us. its only 5 games. we know enough about Gase to know he was a horrible coach.

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

 

Gase and Darnold with this roster and this easy schedule would be helping the young players develop a lot better than Saleh and Wilson.  Gase would have Mims starting, he didn't play any psychological games with his players.  Darnold would be league average, we'd be no worse than 3-2 right now and the players would still have something to play for.

 

Gase would start Mims? ask Ty Johnson and Adams how that work out for them. Gase started a 40 yr old dinosaur over 2 young RBs who avg 4.5 yds per carry.

we would be worst with Gase and Darnold. Gase never had a QB coach for Sam and probably still wouldnt. 

Sam beat 2 rookie QBs starting there 1st ever games and got spotted 16 and 17 nothing leads at half. we have no such teams in our first 5 games.

Sam is 0-2 without the 2nd best RB in the NFL. we do not have such a RB. and against Phila Hubbard ran for over 100 yds and over 4 ypc and Sam still blew a 15-6 halftime lead.

i dont understand why people think Sam is a good QB. yeah if you want to win 8 games a year. 

[GangGreened]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

 

We need to churn and burn GM's every 2 years and not stop until we get one that hits 70% of his draft picks and free agent acquisitions. 

SAR I

I’m not really a JD fan but.. you do know that no GM in the history of the league has ever come close to “hitting” on 70% of their draft picks and FAs right?

 

[kevinc855]

4 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Your credibility regarding your ability to tell when a team is well-coached goes down the toilet because you continually point to the 7-9 finish in 2019 as some sort of accomplishment and as an indication that Gase was a good coach.   Virtually everybody else saw it for the mirage it was and saw Gase as the disaster that he was.  

I had two sons play organized sports through high school and one played some in college and I coached two sports as well at the youth level for 10+ years. I also consider myself a rabid sports fan and have been my entire life.  And I believe it is just too early to tell anything about the GM, Coaching staff,  and the players.  History is filled with teams that struggle under new regimes and then turn it around.

The thing that most fans ignore is the tremendous loss Knapp was for the organization and that loss is showing now and you can't just plug a giant hole like that during the season.  It is impacting Saleh, Lafleur, the offense, Wilson, the young receivers - all down the line.  

At the same Time you dismiss a 6-2 finish (one or the best in the league) your credibility takes a shot when you point to the loss of a passing game coordinator as apparently the fatal hole in the staff. If the staff was designed to be so weak that losing their passing game coordinator be fatal to the staff then you have weak leaders and a poorly designed staff 

[kevinc855]

6 minutes ago, doitny said:

who avg 4.5 yds per carry

Still more then Carter’s 3.4 ?

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Says the Jets fan who has seen, over and over again, how we latch onto some nobody that nobody thinks is great, gives them too much time, and then can't wait until we show them the door?

Joe Douglas is another Mike Maccagnan.  Just another nobody from a front office that interviewed well.  Hell, Joe Douglas' player selection makes Mike Maccagnan look good.  Think about that for a moment.  Douglas' hit rate is as bad as John Idzik and Douglas has been here longer than Idzik.

The Jets need to be decisive.  If Joe Douglas were good at picking players, we'd have better players, we wouldn't be #32 in the NFL.  He's been here 30 months.  Time to go.  The odds that he becomes an elite GM after this type of start are, what, less than 10%.

SAR I

Your opinion on what to do with JD is one thing, your go forward plan is one of the worst takes I've ever seen and no successful organization would ever operate in that manner.

[68JET11]

46 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Not at all.

Use Joe Douglas as an example, he's had 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods and his first season was 2-14 and his second season is looking like 3-14 and his player hit rate is looking like 20%.

Based on this, firing him on the last day of the season when the record is 5-28 and moving on to the next GM who might do better is appropriate.

The Cleveland Browns were in a similar situation to the Jets.  They went through 3 GM's and 4 HC's in 6 years.  They were laughed at, they were called dysfunctional.  Look at them now.  Like the lottery, the more tickets you have the more likely you are to hit a winner.

SAR I

Just to be clear, JD has had 1 draft and 1 FA period with the current coach, and other was with the loser Gase, so not all of JD's choices should be molded into his selections. He was drafting and picking players for one style coach, and now a completely different style coach. After 2023 if this team isn't in the upper echelon of teams in the AFC, then we can have your discussion on why JD doesn't deserve to be the GM of this team anymore.  You should now stop with your constant JD sucks arguments until then.

[dcJet]

7 hours ago, freestater said:

Honestly,  can't understand the thinking that this team making the wrong decision about a GM or HC hiring would be an outlier. Another staff that can't put together a functional, winning team isnt a crazed conspiracy theory, its our team's entire history. 

Yep.  It's the same blueprint since Parcells.  Every time we get a reset, we hire a rookie GM and a rookie defensive--minded coach. (The one exception is Gase.)

These rookies as expected, make rookie mistakes as they learn on the job on our dime.  Just when they get experienced, we fire them and start all over.  

Our complete-rebuild strategy is eff'ed up too.  We let a GM gut the team of all it's decent players and attempt to rebuild with all his draft picks and then he whiffs.  Let's start keeping our decent players.

We've already lived through some JD mistakes.  He's improving.  Let's keep him and get some continuity in here.  

Saleh has two years to show something. Let's see if he keeps the team playing hard when they are 2-10 and the banners start flying.   We should have hired experience - Pederson or McCarthy.

 

[Claymation]

 

[SAR I]

27 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Your credibility regarding your ability to tell when a team is well-coached goes down the toilet because you continually point to the 7-9 finish in 2019 as some sort of accomplishment and as an indication that Gase was a good coach.  

Listen, no one has any "credibility" on JN, you're all wrong about everything, all the Illuminati.  And if I was wrong about Gase, well, the rest of you were wrong about Bowles and Maccagnan and Sanchez, all of whom are better than the guys that replaced tham and that you "assured" me were going to be improvements. 

The only guys with credibility are those with legitimate inside information, Moggles comes to mind.  The rest of us are just guessing.

And the 7-9 finish WAS a great accomplishment for such a broken team.  We'd kill for a 6-2 run this year.  And with an easier schedule than 2019 and with a healthier roster than 2019 and with Joe Douglas hand-picked playmakers that weren't close in 2019, Saleh damned well better get us 8 wins or it's just another bad take by the JN Illuminati who look down upon anyone they find disagreeable.

SAR I

[SAR I]

25 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Your opinion on what to do with JD is one thing, your go forward plan is one of the worst takes I've ever seen and no successful organization would ever operate in that manner.

Browns, Cleveland

3 GM's.  4 HC's.  In 6 years.

Decisive owner.  Can tell when the GM or HC doesn't have it.  Doesn't care that the league will laugh.  Moves on. 

SAR I

[rox]

43 minutes ago, SAR I said:

* I'm a professional fan.  *

SAR I  

Not all  "professional fans"  are the same. 

[SAR I]

40 minutes ago, doitny said:

Saleh was one of the top HC candidates out there.

I don't recall him interviewing with anyone else.

41 minutes ago, doitny said:

what is your proof Gase can do all that? the 7-9 record? i dont see how thats proof of anything. 

Gase wasn't the long term answer for this team.  But short term, in a rebuild, with a broken roster?  He was perfect. 

Have you ever been a professional athlete?  Do you know how hard it is to be 1-7, the laughingstock of the league, no chance to be successful?  Your best players injured or recovering?  And then go and win 6 of your last 8 games?  That's impressive no matter how many Illuminati want to sweep it under the rug.  We'd throw a parade for Saleh if he ripped a 6-2 run, right?  

SAR I

[playtowinthegame]

Can anyone right now today, say with a straight face, that JD is a better GM than Mike Maccagnan. 

Looks take a closer look at the same point in each man's tenure with the Jets.

Joe Douglas 3-18 thus far after two full off-seasons, and he had over 10 months to prepare for his first off-season with the Jets in 2020. He inherited a Mike Maccagnan team that would go on to finish 7-9 in 2019. His first draft pick as GM was passing on Tristan Wirfs for Mehki Becton.

Mike Maccagnan 15-17 after two full off-seasons, and he had 3 ½ months to prepare for his first off-season in 2015 with a bunch of cap space for a competitive rebuild. He inherited a 4-12 team from 2014 with Geno Smith as the starting quarterback. His first draft pick was Leonard Williams who's made the Pro Bowl since JD traded him to the Giants. Won executive of the year after his first season with the Jets. 

[SAR I]

42 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

I’m not really a JD fan but.. you do know that no GM in the history of the league has ever come close to “hitting” on 70% of their draft picks and FAs right?

 

I believe that a GM should hit on 90% of their free agents and 60% of their draft picks putting the aggregate somewhere near 70%.  No idea what the league average is, but I know that Joe Douglas is sitting near 20% and that isn't nearly good enough.

SAR I

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

The problem is not JD. The problem is above JD and the lack of football acumen at an extra layer above the GM. I have been saying this for years.

The Browns have been mentioned in this thread and the Browns realized that, and id it the right way. They hired a CSO (Chief Strategy Officer) in John DePodesta. DePodesta is an analytics guy and an organizational builder. 

My continued rant on this franchise is that it is tooooo marketing heavy, and sensitive to fan criticism, and knee jerks to the wind. They need someone with a plan at a high level, and feed information to the GLM and build around the position.

It is not JDs fault. Provide him the tools, analytics and commitment for building a winning ORGANIZATION. 

I like this post, but I don't necessarily agree.  I don't think they need anybody over Douglas, assuming they are giving Douglas the authority.  I was not a fan of the coach and GM reporting to ownership.  Particularly when our ownership obviously does not consist of football people and, as you said, is so sensitive to the fans and media.  

I would just as soon lay it at Douglas' feet and see where it takes us.  I get that early returns have not been great, but as I keep repeating, these are early days indeed. 

[SAR I]

36 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Just to be clear, JD has had 1 draft and 1 FA period with the current coach, and other was with the loser Gase, so not all of JD's choices should be molded into his selections. He was drafting and picking players for one style coach, and now a completely different style coach. After 2023 if this team isn't in the upper echelon of teams in the AFC, then we can have your discussion on why JD doesn't deserve to be the GM of this team anymore.  You should now stop with your constant JD sucks arguments until then.

He's been here 3 1/2 years and you want to act like it's Year 1?  You ran Gase out of town after 4 games and you want to give Douglas 5 years?

Like the fans, this is what's wrong with the Jets.  Mental gymnastics to justify lousy personnel decisions.

SAR I

[SAR I]

36 minutes ago, dcJet said:

ep.  It's the same blueprint since Parcells.  Every time we get a reset, we hire a rookie GM and a rookie defensive--minded coach. (The one exception is Gase.)

These rookies as expected, make rookie mistakes as they learn on the job on our dime.  Just when they get experienced, we fire them and start all over.  

Our complete-rebuild strategy is eff'ed up too.  We let a GM gut the team of all it's decent players and attempt to rebuild with all his draft picks and then he whiffs.  Let's keep our decent players.

Required reading.

SAR I

[Claymation]

24 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Can anyone right now today, say with a straight face, that JD is a better GM than Mike Maccagnan. 

Looks take a closer look at the same point in each man's tenure with the Jets.

Joe Douglas 3-18 thus far after two full off-seasons, and he had over 10 months to prepare for his first off-season with the Jets in 2020. He inherited a Mike Maccagnan team that would go on to finish 7-9 in 2019. His first draft pick as GM was passing on Tristan Wirfs for Mehki Becton.

Mike Maccagnan 15-17 after two full off-seasons, and he had 3 ½ months to prepare for his first off-season in 2015 with a bunch of cap space for a competitive rebuild. He inherited a 4-12 team from 2014 with Geno Smith as the starting quarterback. His first draft pick was Leonard Williams who's made the Pro Bowl since JD traded him to the Giants. Won executive of the year after his first season with the Jets. 

Yes, JD is much better than Mac. 

[playtowinthegame]

"JD has had 1 draft and 1 FA period with the current coach"

[playtowinthegame]

2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Yes, JD is much better than Mac. 

The more JD whiffs the more Mac smells better. Lol 

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

"JD has had 1 draft and 1 FA period with the current coach"

one too many amirite

[kevinc855]

5 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Yes, JD is much better than Mac. 

So, his quote had facts to support his argument. 

Are you another JD bootlicker because he looks like a meathead? 

[Spoot-Face]

2 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

The more JD whiffs the more Mac smells better. Lol 

okay, Pactowinthegame

[kevinc855]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Let's keep our decent players.

Nah, if we can grab a 5th we ship em out like hotcakes. JD's entire approach is ****ed

[FidelioJet]

59 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Can anyone right now today, say with a straight face, that JD is a better GM than Mike Maccagnan. 

Looks take a closer look at the same point in each man's tenure with the Jets.

Joe Douglas 3-18 thus far after two full off-seasons, and he had over 10 months to prepare for his first off-season with the Jets in 2020. He inherited a Mike Maccagnan team that would go on to finish 7-9 in 2019. His first draft pick as GM was passing on Tristan Wirfs for Mehki Becton.

Mike Maccagnan 15-17 after two full off-seasons, and he had 3 ½ months to prepare for his first off-season in 2015 with a bunch of cap space for a competitive rebuild. He inherited a 4-12 team from 2014 with Geno Smith as the starting quarterback. His first draft pick was Leonard Williams who's made the Pro Bowl since JD traded him to the Giants. Won executive of the year after his first season with the Jets. 

Yes.  Joe Douglas has been and is a better GM than Mac...

If for no other reason than Douglas has a plan and understands the basic tenet of the league.   Mac was throwing darts at a board.

JD has a plan and I think a very good one.  The question is, is he capable of executing that plan...That is still very much a question mark.  Early indication are not good, but it's still way to early to make any real assessment.

When all's said and done though, if ZW hits he'll be a great GM - if he fails he'll be fired in two years.

Mac was unable to find a QB and that was his biggest failure.