Breer On Draft Class (OL & WR)

[KRL]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/25/gameplan-nfl-mock-draft-trevor-lawrence-top-four-quarterbacks

 

5) One position that was interesting through the exercise: offensive tackle in particular and offensive line in general. The 2021 class is seen as very strong at those positions. And when you go through the process of matching teams to players, you realize what a godsend that is for the NFL, because a lot of teams have needs at those positions.

6) On the flip side, you’ll see two receivers in the top 10 and three in the top 15, then none for a while. Why? Well, this is a second straight deep group at the position, so I’d bet a lot of teams will wait to address it. And by the way, this trend of strong receiver classes isn’t slowing down soon. Another bumper crop (George Pickens, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, Justyn Ross and John Metchie) is expected in 2022. Which, really, is just a sign of where the game’s going

[KRL]

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

I'm fine with this as long as he actually does that, make oline a priority in the draft.

[JohnnyLV]

19 minutes ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

It's a great concept until he starts picking corner backs and linebackers and edge until the 5th or 6th round when he picks some developmental OL.  Yeah we picked Becton but JD has not done nearly enough with the OL. I really fear that the more things change the more they stay the same. Look at Buffalo. They drafted Allen and then proceeded to essentially buy the best OL they could so they would have one right away, while we trotted out 2 of the worst offensive lines in NFL history the last 2 years. And what do we do? Sign a bunch of defensive lineman and couple mid-tier receivers. 

I guess I feel that JD is up against a wall in that he has ignored the OL so much that he HAS to spend 2 high picks on the line, but I am still not sure he actually will.

Also, sticking with Darnold is a completely idiotic idea. I would be more in favor of not drafting a QB if the plan was to start Morgan or White than thinking that the lightbulb somehow goes off in Sam's head.

[rangerous]

it kinda sounds like the teams are happy the draft is deep with oline so they have leverage against laying out lots of money for oline vets.  the door swings both ways on that one but with the greater numbers of college teams going to passing attacks come the greater number of oline players that know how to pass block.  or at least it should be that way.

[The Crusher]

34 minutes ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

Agreed as long as he take no less than two or three 

[slats]

28 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm fine with this as long as he actually does that, make oline a priority in the draft.

If he takes a C/OG at #23, he'll have prioritized it. At that point everyone has the Brick/Mangold they've been dreaming of, just that it took two years to get there. Maybe take another OT by pick #107. All of a sudden the OL is in great shape going forward. 

With a trade back, though, he could land one of those top 3 WRs, too. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

21 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It's a great concept until he starts picking corner backs and linebackers and edge until the 5th or 6th round when he picks some developmental OL.  Yeah we picked Becton but JD has not done nearly enough with the OL.

He's had one draft and used his only #1 pick on an tackle who looks to be a stud. He also took another OL later in the draft. He has made it VERY clear that he doesn't want to overpay vets in free agency and it's not like there have been a dozen really good free agent OL available AND willing to play for a bad team. 

Let's just wait until the draft is over before we act like he doesn't prioritize the OL. I am thinking we will all come out of this draft very happy in that department. 

[Barkus]

Yes the way FA went it seems JD is going to use the draft for o-line and DB. I expect #23 pick to be one of those 2 positions (maybe edge also). Just have to hope JD hits on the picks.

[David Harris]

42 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It's a great concept until he starts picking corner backs and linebackers and edge until the 5th or 6th round when he picks some developmental OL.  Yeah we picked Becton but JD has not done nearly enough with the OL. I really fear that the more things change the more they stay the same. Look at Buffalo. They drafted Allen and then proceeded to essentially buy the best OL they could so they would have one right away, while we trotted out 2 of the worst offensive lines in NFL history the last 2 years. And what do we do? Sign a bunch of defensive lineman and couple mid-tier receivers. 

I guess I feel that JD is up against a wall in that he has ignored the OL so much that he HAS to spend 2 high picks on the line, but I am still not sure he actually will.

Also, sticking with Darnold is a completely idiotic idea. I would be more in favor of not drafting a QB if the plan was to start Morgan or White than thinking that the lightbulb somehow goes off in Sam's head.

He’s acutely aware. Rebuilt the entire OL last year. It didn’t work but he knows. He always states everything starts up front. Drafting Mekhi with his first ever pick, also look at what he did to the DL this off season. I expect him to keep building the trenches.

[shuler82]

A OG needs to be picked in the first two rounds, but those expecting multiple early OL picks might be disappointed.. a lot of holes still left on the roster. 

[CTJetsFan]

7 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

A OG needs to be picked in the first two rounds, but those expecting multiple early OL picks might be disappointed.. a lot of holes still left on the roster. 

Can't forget he also drafted Clark last year presumably to play OG

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

We’ll probably walk away with one and a few LBs

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

I still wanted at least one solid veteran starting IOL.  I get that we weren't getting Thuney or Linsley but there were a few others I would have liked to take the pressue off the draft.

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

That's all fine and dandy, but we need 4 new offensive linemen. Not 1.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slats said:

If he takes a C/OG at #23, he'll have prioritized it. At that point everyone has the Brick/Mangold they've been dreaming of, just that it took two years to get there. Maybe take another OT by pick #107. All of a sudden the OL is in great shape going forward. 

With a trade back, though, he could land one of those top 3 WRs, too. 

Presuming JD's 2021 picks are materially better than his 2020 picks.  

I don't think anyone would argue that Davis filled our S need, that Perine filled our RB need, that Zuniga filled our Edge need, that Morgan filled any real need, or that Clarke filled our OG need.

Hell, it's still questionable if Mims has actually filled our WR need.

So no, I don't presume if we take a C at #23 or an OT at #107 that those needs are addressed or that the OL is in "great shape". 

So far, JD's draft picks have truly filled/addressed very few needs in any way.

[slats]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Presuming JD's 2021 picks are materially better than his 2020 picks.  

I don't think anyone would argue that Davis filled our S need, that Perine filled our RB need, that Zuniga filled our Edge need, that Morgan filled any real need, or that Clarke filled our OG need.

Hell, it's still questionable if Mims has actually filled our WR need.

So no, I don't presume if we take a C at #23 or an OT at #107 that those needs are addressed or that the OL is in "great shape". 

So far, JD's draft picks have truly filled/addressed very few needs in any way.

His first two picks were solid. If he takes an IOL at #23, I'm gonna feel very good about the OL at that moment. The man has had one draft, and the criticism is that he didn't produce rookie starters in the third and fourth rounds. Perine produced, despite Gase riding Gore. His fifth rounder was starting at CB by the end of the year. If A. Davis or Zuniga is producing and/or starting this season, do they then all of a sudden become good picks? What about if Clark demonstrates himself to be an upgrade at guard? 

The expectations have been unreasonable. How many teams are drafting multiple rookie starters after the second round every year? 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

That's all fine and dandy, but we need 4 new offensive linemen. Not 1.

Put Sewell at the other OT spot even with 3 JAGs in between him and Becton that’s a top 3 Oline

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, slats said:

His first two picks were solid.

His first pick was solid, vs. the Run.

His second, pure TBD, and any claim otherwise is pure projection.

Quote

The man has had one draft, and the criticism is that he didn't produce rookie starters in the third and fourth rounds.

He produced one starter.  And a WR who played what, 8 games, for 350 yard?

Quote

Perine produced, despite Gase riding Gore.

Lol.  What would we have done without that ~200 yards rushing and stunning, Gore-like 3.6 YPC. 

He wasn't even as good as the old man we all wanted rid of.

Quote

His fifth rounder was starting at CB by the end of the year.

Hall is fine as a depth CB, he's not a legit starter in anyone's mind yet.  But he could be (and I hope he does become one).

But really, why do you think half this board is screaming for CB in both FA and the Draft?  If Hall had CB #2 locked down, that wouldn't be such an issue.

Quote

If A. Davis or Zuniga is producing and/or starting this season, do they then all of a sudden become good picks? What about if Clark demonstrates himself to be an upgrade at guard? 

Starting is irrelevant, how they play and produce is what matters.

Quote

The expectations have been unreasonable. How many teams are drafting multiple rookie starters after the second round every year? 

Let me remind you, after too many drafts where JD fails to "draft multiple starters", he's going to lose his job.

So yes, he needs to be able to draft multiple starters who play well, in every draft, in every year. 

That is literally his job.  Finding starters who play well and win games.  

To be clear, all of these draft picks COULD be much better now under Saleh.  Or they could not.  We don't know yet, and have no reason to presume they're all going to be breakout players.  I think you need to be far less homer about these guys, and JD, tbqh.  There are no Lombardi trophies for hope and prayers.

[JetPotato]

57 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Put Sewell at the other OT spot even with 3 JAGs in between him and Becton that’s a top 3 Oline

That's silly. You're not a top 3 Oline with a bottom 10 center and two bad guards. Just doesn't add up, even if both your tackles are all Pros.

[clayton163v]

43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

His first pick was solid, vs. the Run.

His second, pure TBD, and any claim otherwise is pure projection.

He produced one starter.  And a WR who played what, 8 games, for 350 yard?

Lol.  What would we have done without that ~200 yards rushing and stunning, Gore-like 3.6 YPC. 

He wasn't even as good as the old man we all wanted rid of.

Hall is fine as a depth CB, he's not a legit starter in anyone's mind yet.  But he could be (and I hope he does become one).

But really, why do you think half this board is screaming for CB in both FA and the Draft?  If Hall had CB #2 locked down, that wouldn't be such an issue.

Starting is irrelevant, how they play and produce is what matters.

Let me remind you, after too many drafts where JD fails to "draft multiple starters", he's going to lose his job.

So yes, he needs to be able to draft multiple starters who play well, in every draft, in every year. 

That is literally his job.  Finding starters who play well and win games.  

To be clear, all of these draft picks COULD be much better now under Saleh.  Or they could not.  We don't know yet, and have no reason to presume they're all going to be breakout players.  I think you need to be far less homer about these guys, and JD, tbqh.  There are no Lombardi trophies for hope and prayers.

Oh c'mon.

Becton was solid all around.  He did miss games.  Otherwise it was an excellent rookie campaign.

Mims played very well considering he missed half the season.  You do realise this right?  He was not playing poorly, he was injured and missed games.  Once he was healthy he instantly drew #1 coverage.   A lot to ask and he did not collapse in the face of such attention.  Wait until he is just one of the guys . . .

Perine is going to make you eat crow.  He is a rugged between the tackles player who does everything well and plays special teams in the pros like he did in college.  I realize you wanted a more one-dimensional player with more upside as a halfback.  But that is no reason to condemn his all around game.  With better blocking and no high ankle sprain early in the year, he will make you change your tune.

Both Clark and Morgan had redshirt rookie years.  In two years you may be right about them.  But right now there is simply nothing to go on.  Zilch.

Like Austin the year before, Hall had a second round grade and fell only due to injury.  He is not depth.  He is a starter.  A coveted player.  He has a first round grade if he does not get hurt.  I am not making this up.  It's all true.  Why are you so negative?

Best draft of the last ten years for the Jets.  Hands down.  And had you been drafting (or me) there would have been only one 4th round pick, not three.

Sheesh. 

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Oh c'mon.

Becton was solid all around.  He did miss games.  Otherwise it was an excellent rookie campaign.

He was spectacular in the run.  He was average against the pass, if that.  

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Mims played very well considering he missed half the season.

No, he really didn't.  He was invisible for the vast bulk of the games he played in 2021, and he only played in half of them.

How that translates to "played very well", I'll never understand.  Must be something only homers can see.

You know what "played very well" looks like to me?  Not 357 yards and 2 TD's on a team literally starved for any WR to step up.

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

He was not playing poorly, he was injured and missed games.

Which is also not "playing very well", technically.

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Once he was healthy he instantly drew #1 coverage.   A lot to ask and he did not collapse in the face of such attention.  Wait until he is just one of the guys . . .

Show me.  Don;t tell me.  You guys are real big on hypey hot air, the guys you hype seem much less capable of actually showing anybody.

When Mims has a 1,000 yard, 10 TD season in a Jets Uniform, I will be the first to give JD credit for drafting him.

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Perine is going to make you eat crow.

Which means he hasn't yet.  Seems you guys keep missing this point, I'm about facts, not projections.

So far, no crow eating.  When he makes me eat crow, then we'll talk.  

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Both Clark and Morgan had redshirt rookie years.

So nonentities so far.  Which is what I said.

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Like Austin the year before, Hall had a second round grade and fell only due to injury.  He is not depth.  He is a starter.  A coveted player.  He has a first round grade if he does not get hurt.  I am not making this up.  It's all true.

Good, I hoped he's earn that job, I like Hall.  We'll see if it actually happens.

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Best draft of the last ten years for the Jets.  Hands down.

Kinda like saying "best turn in the bowl, hands down".

20 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

And had you been drafting (or me) there would have been only one 4th round pick, not three.

Sheesh. 

Wake me when you homers actually turn out to be right about literally anything.  So far, you guys are batting 0-infinity.

[GreenFish]

Draft the big guys early. With how tough this scouting process has been relative to prior years, drafting positions that easier to project is the way to go. OL have a lower bust rate. Get two early and be done with it.

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, KRL said:

So with a deep OL draft class, Douglas didn't push to sign
an expensive vet when he can draft a cheap rookie(s)

And won't be drafting Sewell at the #2 overall.  It AIN'T happening.

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

His first pick was solid, vs. the Run.

His second, pure TBD, and any claim otherwise is pure projection.

He produced one starter.  And a WR who played what, 8 games, for 350 yard?

Lol.  What would we have done without that ~200 yards rushing and stunning, Gore-like 3.6 YPC. 

He wasn't even as good as the old man we all wanted rid of.

Hall is fine as a depth CB, he's not a legit starter in anyone's mind yet.  But he could be (and I hope he does become one).

But really, why do you think half this board is screaming for CB in both FA and the Draft?  If Hall had CB #2 locked down, that wouldn't be such an issue.

Starting is irrelevant, how they play and produce is what matters.

Let me remind you, after too many drafts where JD fails to "draft multiple starters", he's going to lose his job.

So yes, he needs to be able to draft multiple starters who play well, in every draft, in every year. 

That is literally his job.  Finding starters who play well and win games.  

To be clear, all of these draft picks COULD be much better now under Saleh.  Or they could not.  We don't know yet, and have no reason to presume they're all going to be breakout players.  I think you need to be far less homer about these guys, and JD, tbqh.  There are no Lombardi trophies for hope and prayers.

He produced four starters.  You can disagree on the quality of starts, but we had four of the picks starting.  And yes, we don't know.  The whole draft could be a bust.  But we hope we have some better coaching which produces better results.  JD could have drafted the top players at each position last year, and we could have questioned all the picks, given the god-awful coaching they would have received.

[Embrace the Suck]

6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I guess I feel that JD is up against a wall in that he has ignored the OL so much that he HAS to spend 2 high picks on the line, but I am still not sure he actually will.

He's had one draft, and is in his second FA. His first draft pick was OT. He's about to probably draft a QB at #2 and define his career in that moment. He'll make the oline right because he knows the consequences otherwise and they involve self preservation which is always a strong motivator.

[Greensleeves]

8 hours ago, JetPotato said:

That's all fine and dandy, but we need 4 new offensive linemen. Not 1.

that's just not true. We only need one IOL - that's it. How about giving the young guys like Clark, who had no real training camp and exhibition season a chance to play and give the veteran's on the roster some time to gel. They were all playing games without any real prep for them. I remember them stonewalling the Rams top defense in the NFL. I would grab a guard or center in the second round with one of our possible two second round picks.

[choon328]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I'm fine with this as long as he actually does that, make oline a priority in the draft.

Remember how o-line was a priority last year too in the draft?

[clayton163v]

3 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

that's just not true. We only need one IOL - that's it. How about giving the young guys like Clark, who had no real training camp and exhibition season a chance to play and give the veteran's on the roster some time to gel. They were all playing games without any real prep for them. I remember them stonewalling the Rams top defense in the NFL. I would grab a guard or center in the second round with one of our possible two second round picks.

We need a starting guard but we also could use some quality depth.  I would draft two guards with starting grades but neither would require a second round pick.  I am thinking 3d round at best and would be a bargain hunter thereafter. 

I follow the draft.  Every year guards with starting grades are available in the later rounds.  Last year Onwenu lasted until the sixth and he played every down for the Pats at right tackle.  Looked good too.  He carried a third round grade and was marked as a starter.  The Giants grabbed Shane Lemeiux in the 5th and it enabled them to cut Zeigler.

It can be done and we really do need to improve the quality of the line AND its depth.  As far as Cameron Clark is concerned, he may be the answer at guard or the long-term answer at right tackle.  He has the length to do it.  He needed a year in the program.  Many college players need some time.  Lemeiux was not given a start until half the season was over. 

[RutgersJetFan]

13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I'm fine with this as long as he actually does that, make oline a priority in the draft.

2/1 we draft more DL and safeties. 

[JetPotato]

12 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

that's just not true. We only need one IOL - that's it. How about giving the young guys like Clark, who had no real training camp and exhibition season a chance to play and give the veteran's on the roster some time to gel. They were all playing games without any real prep for them. I remember them stonewalling the Rams top defense in the NFL. I would grab a guard or center in the second round with one of our possible two second round picks.

These sound like... no, ARE... weak excuses. The problem isn't lack of gel. These are below average players. Period. And the position of center is far too important, especially with a young QB, to leave it to a player like Connor McGovern. He's just not good.

[CanadaSteve]

11 hours ago, choon328 said:

Remember how o-line was a priority last year too in the draft?

2 of the 9 picks were OL (22 percent of the picks we had), and was the only position where multiple picks were spent.  I know, we should have drafted AT LEAST 5 more!

[CanadaSteve]

17 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

These sound like... no, ARE... weak excuses. The problem isn't lack of gel. These are below average players. Period. And the position of center is far too important, especially with a young QB, to leave it to a player like Connor McGovern. He's just not good.

Probably why JD signed 4 free agents last year, drafted a developmental guard and an LT with the first over-all pick.

You can only do so much in a year when the last 7 drafts virtually ignored the 2nd most important position in today's NFL.

[Greensleeves]

36 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

These sound like... no, ARE... weak excuses. The problem isn't lack of gel. These are below average players. Period. And the position of center is far too important, especially with a young QB, to leave it to a player like Connor McGovern. He's just not good.

I think we should draft a center high (2nd) and move McGovern over. You have no idea how good Clark is yet. It seems as though they didn't want to throw him to the wolves without bringing him along first.