Training Camp Practice - 8/10

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

I think folks want to retain the right to be able to say a rookie is not looking good w/o it being considered digital child abuse.  Rookies will be judged throughout the league.  As a result, some will start, get benched, cut, traded, put on practice squads…etc.! 

 

1) Even if you want to make an assessment, he's not looking bad, by most accounts he's been uneven

2) Two weeks to make any assessments is absurd

3) Making any assessments without any context is moronic - we don't know what he's trying, we don't know what he's working and most importantly we are almost entirely going off tweets from reporters that are notoriously looking to cause a stir.

Making any assessment at all of this kid is just entirely illogical.

[Jethead]

I don't think you will hear this Jets team described as lazy, lackadaisical or boring. This is a bad thing?

[32EBoozer]

4 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Becton is not built to defend players like Lawson... hence why he is 'schooled' everyday

During games against speed rushers you can scheme to help Becton. Here at camp, offense is letting Becton get a full on serving of Lawson to help him grow. Tough Love

[Jetluv58]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But like, are we talking about "throwing across his body into triple coverage" or like, which throws he can make in tight windows against NFL caliber defenders and which he can't. I largely interpreted the comments to be closer to the latter -- he needs to adjust to NFL speed and coverage vs. "he needs to stop doing ridiculously stupid things."

He needs the OL to stop people coming at him at will. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

 

No way in hell i beleive this, first who is this guy i have never heard of him. Also Zach is fine and much better prospect than Lance of Fields...zach is going to be fine and will will see who he is but all these camp report nothing seems too bad too me. I think we will ahve a godo season!

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Sure but the problem is, from all reports, he's not doing this off script/off platform stuff that made him a sexy prospect.  From all reports, it seems they're trying to get him to play within the pocket and closer to the LOS and within the offense.  So if you're doing that, then why is he working on what he can get away with?  That makes no sense.  He should be focused on executing the brand new offense he's learning, not ******* around with maybe I can do this...and again, how does that benefit anyone else on the team?  

To use your example, ofcourse you dont care if Trae Young goes 1-15 in practice doing something you expect him to do but you do care if he's throwing balls off the back board and throwing bounce pass lobs and trying to make backward half court shots when he's the PG trying to install an offense and get a team ready for the regular season.  

 

He went 10-17 with two big drops by Mims and Herndon.  So that's 12-17. And you are making it seem as if he was an unmitigated disaster today.

It's OK if on a couple of those incompletions he was trying to do a little too much. That's his nature. He is learning what he can and cannot get away with.  Or maybe he will learn how to make the same plays better. 

It's  PRACTICE

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

You might be taking the statement too literal.  

I thought he meant Wilson was testing things like window sizes and looking the defense off.  That's a legit thing to try in practice.  

Totally fair, that why I originally asked how he said it.

[Jetscode1]

5 hours ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

I’ve been enjoying a lot of the threads for some time now. A lot of great posters here with some WTF posters sprinkled in for added spice. I’ve decided to jump into the madness.

IMO, it’s way too early to make any judgment or conclusions on Zach Wilson. In his first two weeks practicing in the NFL he has been learning the new installs, experiencing the speed of the NFL while dealing with the DL generally making the backfield their playground. Has there ever been a rookie QB shine in the first two weeks of camp while playing with the 1s? Idk, just asking. From what I understand, Trevor is having his issues, and Justin and Trey have been playing with the 2s.

Now that the installs are complete, if Zach is going to develop into a good to great QB, I expect to see him make gradual improvement with rookie bumps in his performance. Because of his work ethic and passion to get better and for the game, I’m cautiously optimistic he will at least become a good quarterback. Here’s to hoping he does. 

Welcome to the board.  You made some reasonable points.  Cheers!

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

You don't try weird stuff on the range?  What happens if you need to flop over a bunker to a green sloping away from you or hook the ball 90 degrees around a willow tree directly in your path?  I try crazy sh*t all the time.  

 

Bellicheat gets praised all the time for practicing things other coaches never even thought of.  

Sure, I try sh*t on the range from time to time and all it does is confirm that I should never do it on the course.  lol  That said, I'm playing in a money game at a really nice course this weekend.  I want to go low on an expensive course and win money to pay for my round but most importantly beat my friends.  This week, my entire focus is on my long iron game because it's a long course and my knock downs because the course is very windy and super exposed and the wind is supposed to be strong this weekend.  And no, I dont try crazy sh*t at all on the course.  I try to minimize damage.  Rather then trying a low percentage flop shot over a bunker, I'll just continue to work on my short game which is my strength, to know that worse case scenario I'll give myself a long putt which I ultimately have a better chance of making then hitting a perfect flop shot.

I love golf and never throw into double coverage.

[legler82]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

 

1) Even if you want to make an assessment, he's not looking bad, by most accounts he's been uneven

2) Two weeks to make any assessments is absurd

3) Making any assessments without any context is moronic - we don't know what he's trying, we don't know what he's working and most importantly we are almost entirely going off tweets from reporters that are notoriously looking to cause a stir.

Making any assessment at all of this kid is just entirely illogical.

I wonder if you would have said this if he was lighting it up.  

[Untouchable]

6 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I wonder if you would have said this if he was lighting it up.  

Smart fans have learned to take pretty much nothing away from these TC practices.

When are people going to learn?

We literally go through this same sh*t every July/August.

10 practice sessions have already convinced a sizable portion of this fanbase that Zach Wilson is Darnold 2.0, Mekhi Becton is due for a massive sophomore slump and that Carl Lawson is going to have 20 sacks this year.

[JustInFudge]

41 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

He went 10-17 with two big drops by Mims and Herndon.  So that's 12-17. And you are making it seem as if he was an unmitigated disaster today.

It's OK if on a couple of those incompletions he was trying to do a little too much. That's his nature. He is learning what he can and cannot get away with.  Or maybe he will learn how to make the same plays better. 

It's  PRACTICE

Actually, I'm talking about what Saleh said about what he's doing in practice.  I've steady maintained none of these stats matter, I've said it repeatedly.  I think maybe you're overreacting to fans simply reacting to reports Zach has been shaky and thus we're having a conversation.  Kind of the point of the board, no?

The reason why I'm asking about what he said and focused on that particular piece is because I'm concerned about Zach's development.  I think he's got some sexy tools to work with and want him to be a great player but I believe he's a huge project.  So I think his development is crucial.  I dont see him as a hit the ground running type QB and when I hear this type of feedback in regards to his performance, it gives me pause because practice is like, really important and stuff.  Especially for a rookie.  I'm actually not knocking Zach right now, I'm questioning the coaching.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

50 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

No way in hell i beleive this, first who is this guy i have never heard of him. Also Zach is fine and much better prospect than Lance of Fields...zach is going to be fine and will will see who he is but all these camp report nothing seems too bad too me. I think we will ahve a godo season!

It’s meant as a joke. 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I wonder if you would have said this if he was lighting it up.  

I absolutely would be.  I’m a realistic fan,  
Would I be more confident, sure.  Would I be saying he’s going to light up the NFL this year. Absolutely not. Do I love ZW’s potential? Absolutely.  
But just like I’ve been saying forever not to expect a lot of wins from this team.  And not to expect it mostly because we have a rookie QB, with 7 new starters and a new offense.  Just like we have on practice.  
Under these circumstances it would be impossible for him to light it up.  
 

That’s the realistic perception of the situation. 

[Larz]

12 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Smart fans have learned to take pretty much nothing away from these TC practices.

When are people going to learn?

We literally go through this same sh*t every July/August.

10 practice sessions have already convinced a sizable portion of this fanbase that Zach Wilson is Darnold 2.0, Mekhi Becton is due for a massive sophomore slump and that Carl Lawson is going to have 20 sacks this year.

Smarter fans learned from Darnold not to ignore the check engine light 

[Untouchable]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

Smarter fans learned from Darnold not to ignore the check engine light 

Multiple people have posted articles detailing Mahomes’s bigtime struggles during his first training camp.

None of this means much at all

If Wilson comes out and lights the piss out of the Giants in 4 days, these same people complaining now will go overboard on the opposite side of the fence anointing him as the savior.

Dipsh*ts around 15 years ago were actually convincing themselves that Ratliff and Clowney were going to be some sort of dynamic duo.

When the live bullets begin to fly starting in September, we’ll have more of a logical viewpoint.

If we reach the midpoint of the season and Wilson is chucking the ball off his backfoot into triple coverage consistently, then I’ll start to have some worries.

[fastmover]

6 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I mean the idea of him taking 6 sacks in an actual game doesn’t seem hilarious to me, but what do I know

The sacks are literally a tap on the shoulder, that’s how they’re being scored in these practices.  I think it’s easier for the DL to get a tap on the shoulder counted, then get an actual sack. I’ll even bet Wilson knows this and is not concerned with a tapped shoulder and just carries on with what he is doing on that particular play. 
 

I bet in games like this upcoming weekend he’ll be in a different mindset. 
we’ll see...

 

Semper Fi

[Lupz27]

Sam Darnold I mean Zach Wilson with another uneven day I still can’t tell the difference between the two play wise.

[Bruce Harper]

6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

 

Who is this guy?  Is he for real?

Edit:  Okay, a spoof, but remarkably unfunny.

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

Who is this guy?  Is he for real?

It’s a parody account 

[Larz]

3 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Multiple people have posted articles detailing Mahomes’s bigtime struggles during his first training camp.

None of this means much at all

If Wilson comes out and lights the piss out of the Giants in 4 days, these same people complaining now will go overboard on the opposite side of the fence anointing him as the savior.

Dipsh*ts around 15 years ago were actually convincing themselves that Ratliff and Clowney were going to be some sort of dynamic duo.

When the live bullets begin to fly starting in September, we’ll have more of a logical viewpoint.

If we reach the midpoint of the season and Wilson is chucking the ball off his backfoot into triple coverage consistently, then I’ll start to have some worries.

The brilliant fans realize that since the team hasn’t been to the playoffs in 10 years, what looks like crap in August is usually crap in October 

[thebuzzardman]

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, legler82 said:

No you judge what you see.  He was the 2nd overall pick so obviously he was judged him and the NYJ thought he was worthy of such this high honor.  Currently, he’s reportedly struggling so he’s being judged based on that.  2-3 years from now when he’s the greater QB to put on cleats, we’ll judge him again accordingly.

And thats totally wrong.  You add in does he have the ability to improve, what you think he will become.  Fans judge them on the practices where he struggles, forget the practices where he lights it up.  Which review from tweets fans believe go with who wanted him before the draft and who didnt.  

Listen to Saleh every day, yesterday when he said the result of the play is important to the press, not to the CS, theyre looking at his process and its fine.  

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, legler82 said:

So when he’s playing well we shouldn’t  pass judgement on that either?  We must wait until he’s a finish product to pass judgement on how well he is playing? 

No you should have enough sense to realize its only 10 practices, not 10 years and realize every rookie QB has up and down practices at this point.  And not panic like school girls if he throws an INT or incomplete pass.  Hell Cimini calls a 10-17 day with 3 drops a bad day.  Actually charting passes in a practice.  

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, EM31 said:

So it is not too early to take note of his performances so far?  And if that is what you are saying then I agree for BOTH the rookie WR and QB

Off of tweets, no game action, hearing the snide remarks from some of the hacks as proof one way or another, yeah, its way too early.  I wonder what its like to be a Jags fan, hear, maybe that Lawrence threw 3 picks the other day.  Panicked like this place, wetting themselves with every incompletion from a rookies camp 

[thebuzzardman]

14 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

No way in hell i beleive this, first who is this guy i have never heard of him. Also Zach is fine and much better prospect than Lance of Fields...zach is going to be fine and will will see who he is but all these camp report nothing seems too bad too me. I think we will ahve a godo season!

[EM31]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Off of tweets, no game action, hearing the snide remarks from some of the hacks as proof one way or another, yeah, its way too early.  I wonder what its like to be a Jags fan, hear, maybe that Lawrence threw 3 picks the other day.  Panicked like this place, wetting themselves with every incompletion from a rookies camp 

Every jets fan is eager, not desperate for news of our team.  As a fan base we have been a laughing stock for so long that any and all news is going to be consumed, debated and analyzed to death.

My only point was that first impressions are not totally without value,  Total busts for our franchise history usually had very bad early signs, often from their very first practices (Gholston, etc.).   In those cases the early signs were a taste of exactly what we were going to be getting.

I don't think you could find a single Jets fan who is not ecstatic about how well Q has done after his own slow start but with that said, more often than not a slow start is early evidence of what we are going to get.  Nobody is saying to cut anyone, we all eagerly await more practice news and preseason game action but until we do we are going to talk about what has been shown so far and what that might mean for the team.

Otherwise what is the point of a fan forum?

[Action Zachtion]

14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It’s meant as a joke. 

But I've seen it quoted everywhere and I think shaped an ESPN report about rookie QBs lol. 

[Mogglez]

19 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Was Saleh being serious or joking when he said this because that is a moronic idea.

That’s exactly what Andy Reid said about Mahomes in 2018.  It’s not moronic at all.  It’s incredibly common.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

That’s exactly what Andy Reid said about Mahomes in 2018.  It’s not moronic at all.  It’s incredibly common.

Link?

[Mogglez]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Link?

[JustInFudge]

35 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Cant tell what he's talking about with "camps".  Like OTA's and stuff?    Big difference IMO and I think the context is different as well.  It seems like Reid is saying the coaching staff is throwing a lot at him to see what they can get away with in terms of what he's ready to handle....not that Pat is just chucking up sh*t to see what he can get away it, which is how I took Saleh's comments.  

And then there is also the whole factor that we're talking about arguably the best QB developer of all time vs. the Jets who dont have a single coach who has ever developed a QB.

Could be wrong but I still find it moronic to think developing and practicing bad habits is a good thing.

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Cant tell what he's talking about with "camps".  Like OTA's and stuff?    Big difference IMO and I think the context is different as well.  It seems like Reid is saying the coaching staff is throwing a lot at him to see what they can get away with in terms of what he's ready to handle....not that Pat is just chucking up sh*t to see what he can get away it, which is how I took Saleh's comments.  

And then there is also the whole factor that we're talking about arguably the best QB developer of all time vs. the Jets who dont have a single coach who has ever developed a QB.

Could be wrong but I still find it moronic to think developing and practicing bad habits is a good thing.

The quote was from when Pat was throwing INTs left and right in TC and Pat said himself that he was just trying to see what he can get away with in practice.  I’ll see if I can find more but I’m having a busy day lol.  Plus there’s like a million articles when you search “Mahomes practice” because of his practice status for last years AFC championship game.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The quote was from when Pat was throwing INTs left and right in TC and Pat said himself that he was just trying to see what he can get away with in practice.  I’ll see if I can find more but I’m having a busy day lol.  Plus there’s like a million articles when you search “Mahomes practice” because of his practice status for last years AFC championship game.

6 in 7 days is 1 INT a day = left and right?

Anywho, I just did quick search and and this is what I found which is basically all I'm saying. lol

"That's the first thing I said when I came to the sideline: I could have run it. [The coaches] said, 'Then just do it. Don't train bad habits.' ... That was the play that needed to be made on that one."

[Mogglez]

Just now, JiFapono said:

6 in 7 days is 1 INT a day = left and right?

Anywho, I just did quick search and and this is what I found which is basically all I'm saying. lol

"That's the first thing I said when I came to the sideline: I could have run it. [The coaches] said, 'Then just do it. Don't train bad habits.' ... That was the play that needed to be made on that one."

IIRC, and I might not be lol, Pat started off reaaaally rough his first year going into camp as the starter. Maybe it was OTAs/minicamp, but I don’t know lol.  

I get what you’re saying overall, I’m just saying that being more aggressive in practice is definitely not uncommon.  If he were sidearming passes and just doing lackadaisical stuff I’d be with ya.  I read Saleh’s comments more as “he’s just being more aggressive than usual to test the defense”.  It sounds like Wilson had a pretty solid day today, so that’s good.