Saleh: This is the first time this fanbase has experienced something like this. This is an actual plan.

[Claymation]

13 minutes ago, dcJet said:

If the plan is to suck to historic levels before rebuilding, then it's a terrible plan.  This isn't the NBA and this isn't the 1989 Cowboys.

 

Worked for the Astros and the AZ Cardinals. It's starting to work for the Bengals.

[JustInFudge]

38 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair Tanny had a plan, turned out to be a terrible one with a lot of Owner pacification moves but he at least made it worth our attention  a few seasons. Even if it was in a ,” what is this maniac Trader Mile going to do now!” Sorta way. 

Did he though?  He hired Mangini, let him try to build the Patriots south, he sucked and the entire team hated his guts more than life itself.  Mangini was trying to fit a round peg in a square hole with a mis-casted defense, playing read and react Football, they traded for Brett Favre for 1 year and their back up plan was Kelle Clemans.  They were quite literally just throwing sh*t at the wall and praying.  The discernable plan didnt come into play until Rex showed up and said, here is who we are going to be; we're going to be a ground and pound, punch you in the mouth team and he executed that plan at a high level for a few seasons until Jets management sabotaged the only good duo we've ever had here at GM and HC.

The idea there has been plan in place since, is ******* laughable.  Even if you want to claim Idzick had a plan (he didnt), he inherited his Head Coach who clearly tried to sabotage.  GTFO here had a plan!  And then to sit here and act like Mac had plan is some of the dumbest revisionist convenient nonsense I've heard on this board, the dude was a ******* moron.  He let Ryan Fitzpatrick hold him hostage and then proceed to hired Adam Gase for christ sake.

Robert Saleh dropped a truth bomb and suddenly Jets are all squirming about something they would 100% agree with if anyone else said it.

 

 

[pleasefireSelahnow]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre a troll, own it.  Youre here to troll the board.  

Saleh has nothing to do with the things you just posted, yes.  The HC doesnt develop the QB.  Thats what the OC, the QBC etc are for.

 

Your the troll, you may be Saleh himself or related to him whats the matter you can't take criticism?  How can anyone defend a coach who is 2-8 and who came here as this "defensive mastermind" and his defense gets lit up every game.  Try dozing off at your job and being unproductive see how fast you get fired.

[Copernicus]

44 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What’s his reasoning behind the team basically looking disinterested and uncompetitive every week? Or is that part of the plan too.

Noncompetitive I will agree. Too many games got out of hand early.  Is it that we are starting all of these rookies and have no choice but to go through growing pains when things dont go right? I think we are underestimating how valuable it is to have a veteran on the field next to a rookie to lean on (and cover up mistakes) We dont, but that is also the plan for these rookies to collectively learn by playing on the field even if it means negative plays. For example the secondary on Sunday included second year Ashton Davis, second year Bryce Hall, rookies, and a guy we signed this week. If one assignment is blown there is little to no chance for a teammate to cover up because that player's head is on a swivel as well. As far as disinterested goes, I would beg to differ. I think when a team is being blown out like we have it is difficult to decipher what is being disinterested and defeated and totally out played  

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Did he though?  He hired Mangini, let him try to build the Patriots south, he sucked and the entire team hated his guts more than life itself.  Mangini was trying to fit a round peg in a square hole with a mis-casted defense, playing read and react Football, they traded for Brett Favre for 1 year and their back up plan was Kelle Clemans.  They were quite literally just throwing sh*t at the wall and praying.  The discernable plan didnt come into play until Rex showed up and said, here is who we are going to be; we're going to be a ground and pound, punch you in the mouth team and he executed that plan at a high level for a few seasons until Jets management sabotaged the only good duo we've ever had here at GM and HC.

The idea there has been plan in place since, is ******* laughable.  Even if you want to claim Idzick had a plan (he didnt), he inherited his Head Coach who clearly tried to sabotage.  GTFO here had a plan!  And then to sit here and act like Mac had plan is some of the dumbest revisionist convenient nonsense I've heard on this board, the dude was a ******* moron.  He let Ryan Fitzpatrick hold him hostage and then proceed to hired Adam Gase for christ sake.

Robert Saleh dropped a truth bomb and suddenly Jets are all squirming about something they would 100% agree with if anyone else said it.

 

 

Mangini and Tanny did have a plan to build up the OL and they drafted reasonably well in doing so. Rex inherited that team and changed the defense which was the right move at the time. After that ran its course and it was obvious we needed to make some real moves at the skill positions the Jets continued to bring in Drunks and malcontents to surround their young QB while continuing to draft defense for a defense that was already in the top ten for the first few years he was here. Rex was the guy who did not have a plan and started the spiral and Idiots like Bowles didn't do anything to stop the bleeding while we destroyed our roster from an AFCCG roster to a middling pile of crap. 

[Copernicus]

12 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Did he though?  He hired Mangini, let him try to build the Patriots south, he sucked and the entire team hated his guts more than life itself.  Mangini was trying to fit a round peg in a square hole with a mis-casted defense, playing read and react Football, they traded for Brett Favre for 1 year and their back up plan was Kelle Clemans.  They were quite literally just throwing sh*t at the wall and praying.  The discernable plan didnt come into play until Rex showed up and said, here is who we are going to be; we're going to be a ground and pound, punch you in the mouth team and he executed that plan at a high level for a few seasons until Jets management sabotaged the only good duo we've ever had here at GM and HC.

The idea there has been plan in place since, is ******* laughable.  Even if you want to claim Idzick had a plan (he didnt), he inherited his Head Coach who clearly tried to sabotage.  GTFO here had a plan!  And then to sit here and act like Mac had plan is some of the dumbest revisionist convenient nonsense I've heard on this board, the dude was a ******* moron.  He let Ryan Fitzpatrick hold him hostage and then proceed to hired Adam Gase for christ sake.

Robert Saleh dropped a truth bomb and suddenly Jets are all squirming about something they would 100% agree with if anyone else said it.

 

 

I dont remember it this way. Mangini's sucked? His team hated him? What evidence? Mangini's team was developing positively until Woody Johnson stepped in and forced Brett Favre of all prima donas on a second (3d?) year HC all to sell Favre jerseys. I blame Woody more than Mangini. They yanked Kellen Clemens (who lasted 10 years in the NFL) way too soon in favor of Favre who was at the end of his career and the height of his selfish prima dona divisiveness. If they didnt like Clemens then they should have drafted another young Qb to develop, not force such a lightning rod of a player on a young HC.  All these years later it is universally accepted as Jets fans that Rex won with Mangini's players. 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Did he though?  He hired Mangini, let him try to build the Patriots south, he sucked and the entire team hated his guts more than life itself.  Mangini was trying to fit a round peg in a square hole with a mis-casted defense, playing read and react Football, they traded for Brett Favre for 1 year and their back up plan was Kelle Clemans.  They were quite literally just throwing sh*t at the wall and praying.  The discernable plan didnt come into play until Rex showed up and said, here is who we are going to be; we're going to be a ground and pound, punch you in the mouth team and he executed that plan at a high level for a few seasons until Jets management sabotaged the only good duo we've ever had here at GM and HC.

The idea there has been plan in place since, is ******* laughable.  Even if you want to claim Idzick had a plan (he didnt), he inherited his Head Coach who clearly tried to sabotage.  GTFO here had a plan!  And then to sit here and act like Mac had plan is some of the dumbest revisionist convenient nonsense I've heard on this board, the dude was a ******* moron.  He let Ryan Fitzpatrick hold him hostage and then proceed to hired Adam Gase for christ sake.

Robert Saleh dropped a truth bomb and suddenly Jets are all squirming about something they would 100% agree with if anyone else said it.

 

 

That throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks is still the best and most relevant football we have seen for awhile. Nothing but our shit and losing seasons since. Minus that one weird aberration Fitz-tragic year where we choked a shot into the playoffs last gave of season. Then took a nose dive we haven’t even come close to come out of. I did like Mangini’s cameo in The Saprono’s when James Gandofini called him the Mangenious. That was cool. 
 

Was Tanny still here with Rex? 

[dcJet]

6 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Worked for the Astros and the AZ Cardinals. It's starting to work for the Bengals.

The Bengals are not a good comparison.  They didn't gut the team to suck to historic levels.  They had two bad seasons where they were competitive and they turned it around in year three.  

Our roster is way worse than the Bengals in their second suck year. We're already in year three.  We're not competitive.  We're going on 10 seasons of this.  We are the Lions.

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Your the troll, you may be Saleh himself or related to him whats the matter you can't take criticism?  How can anyone defend a coach who is 2-8 and who came here as this "defensive mastermind" and his defense gets lit up every game.  Try dozing off at your job and being unproductive see how fast you get fired.

Yeah, I'm Saleh.  How can I defend him?  Because I watch the games and understand the issues with this team go deeper than the HC at this point.   

Youre just whining without a thought of what youre whining about looking for responses.  Trolling

[dcJet]

11 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I dont remember it this way. Mangini's sucked? His team hated him? What evidence? Mangini's team was developing positively until Woody Johnson stepped in and forced Brett Favre of all prima donas on a second (3d?) year HC all to sell Favre jerseys. I blame Woody more than Mangini. All these years later it is universally accepted that Rex won with Mangini's players. 

Rex won with Mangini's players but Mangini couldn't win with Mangini's players.

Therefore, Rex was the better coach.

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, dcJet said:

The Bengals are not a good comparison.  They didn't gut the team to suck to historic levels.  They had two bad seasons where they were competitive and they turned it around in year three.  

Our roster is way worse than the Bengals in their second suck year. We're already in year three.  We're not competitive.  We're going on 10 seasons of this.  We are the Lions.

Douglass has been here for 2 off seasons. He has had 2 drafts, and 2 FA classes. His first year he came in after FA & the draft. One of those drafts and FA classes was tailored for the Gase CS.

Saleh has been here one season. 

The plan going forward is JD & Saleh plan and it just started this season. Yes we have sucked for 10 seasons, including this one. 

What do you think of the 2021 draft class and how they're being developed so far?

[doitny]

5 minutes ago, dcJet said:

The Bengals are not a good comparison.  They didn't gut the team to suck to historic levels.  They had two bad seasons where they were competitive and they turned it around in year three.  

Our roster is way worse than the Bengals in their second suck year. We're already in year three.  We're not competitive.  We're going on 10 seasons of this.  We are the Lions.

and whats the same about those 2 teams? there QB developed in there 2nd year . our QB is 5 games old. 

 

[y2k8]

19 minutes ago, Claymation said:

If his plan was all about acquiring draft picks and having no idea how to use them, then that isn't a plan. That is part of a plan. He allowed the HC dictate who they should be drafting. The Louisville slugger? Mash Unit Millner?

Yes, his plan was to draft people he didn't know how to use. That is what sold Woody in the interview process. The whole plan was to get fired after 2 drafts. You nailed it.

[dcJet]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Douglass has been here for 2 off seasons. He has had 2 drafts, and 2 FA classes. His first year he came in after FA & the draft. One of those drafts and FA classes was tailored for the Gase CS.

Saleh has been here one season. 

The plan going forward is JD & Saleh plan and it just started this season. Yes we have sucked for 10 seasons, including this one. 

What do you think of the 2021 draft class and how they're being developed so far?

This is year one of rebuilding the rebuild JD did of the last rebuild? 

 

 

[More Cowbell]

44 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I am not sure of your point. but yes they were. Aikman was a rookie. He had 11 starts and went 0-11 completing 52.9% of his passes for 9 TDs and 18 Int.  Irvin was in his second year and had 6 starts (due to injury) with 26 catches for 378 yards and 2 TDs. They were clearly not yet the HOF players they went on to become.  

Johnson didn't rebuild it from the bare studs. Also I think there was a pretty good OL there as well. 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Rex won with Mangini's players but Mangini couldn't win with Mangini's player.

Therefore, Rex was the better coach.

Along with Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, Marques Douglas, L Sheppard, Sanchez, Shonn Green...

Big thing was Scott, Leonhard and Douglas being on field coaches for Rex, one for the DL, LB and DB 

[doitny]

21 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Your the troll, you may be Saleh himself or related to him whats the matter you can't take criticism?  How can anyone defend a coach who is 2-8 and who came here as this "defensive mastermind" and his defense gets lit up every game.  Try dozing off at your job and being unproductive see how fast you get fired.

see your problem is that you think Saleh is some defensive mastermind. hes not. look at his SF defenses and he had one in the top ten in the 4 years he was there. and hes not the DC. 

Rex was the defensive mastermind. he came here after having top 10 defenses in Baltimore. Rex was heavely invovled with the defense. like Rex said, dont compare him to Saleh. 

Saleh was not hired for his defensive skill. he was hired to coach the WHOLE team. 

[Claymation]

5 minutes ago, dcJet said:

The Bengals are not a good comparison.  They didn't gut the team to suck to historic levels.  They had two bad seasons where they were competitive and they turned it around in year three.  

Our roster is way worse than the Bengals in their second suck year. We're already in year three.  We're not competitive.  We're going on 10 seasons of this.  We are the Lions.

2019 Bengals were bad besides their DL and Boyd/Mixon, that was Zac Taylor's 1st year.

29th in defense and 26th on offense, they were -14 in turnover differential.

Last year they were 26th on defense and 29th on offense.

If this is JD's 3rd year, who did he draft in all three years?

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, dcJet said:

This is year one of rebuilding the rebuild JD did of the last rebuild? 

 

 

When you're constantly churning through GM's and HC's you lose draft & FA value because there is a synergy that needs to happen between the two. GM's are tailoring who they draft and sign for what the CS wants to do. 

This is year one of a ground up rebuild using the model that Saleh brought in. JD is now drafting for the Saleh CS. The players drafted this year seem to be developing well.

 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Johnson didn't rebuild it from the bare studs. Also I think there was a pretty good OL there as well. 

Johnson completely gutted the team he took over in Dallas.  

[#27TheDominator]

20 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I dont remember it this way. Mangini's sucked? His team hated him? What evidence? Mangini's team was developing positively until Woody Johnson stepped in and forced Brett Favre of all prima donas on a second (3d?) year HC all to sell Favre jerseys. I blame Woody more than Mangini. They yanked Kellen Clemens (who lasted 10 years in the NFL) way too soon in favor of Favre who was at the end of his career and the height of his selfish prima dona divisiveness. If they didnt like Clemens then they should have drafted another young Qb to develop, not force such a lightning rod of a player on a young HC.  All these years later it is universally accepted as Jets fans that Rex won with Mangini's players. 

Besides the fact that Mangini couldn't win with Mangini's players, maybe you should check how many players changed from 2008 to 2010.  Nobody was calling Revis the GOAT after 2007 or 2008.  Mangini's kid has the middle name Brett because he was forced?

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Mangini and Tanny did have a plan to build up the OL and they drafted reasonably well in doing so. Rex inherited that team and changed the defense which was the right move at the time. After that ran its course and it was obvious we needed to make some real moves at the skill positions the Jets continued to bring in Drunks and malcontents to surround their young QB while continuing to draft defense for a defense that was already in the top ten for the first few years he was here. Rex was the guy who did not have a plan and started the spiral and Idiots like Bowles didn't do anything to stop the bleeding while we destroyed our roster from an AFCCG roster to a middling pile of crap. 

Case in point.  The revisionist history going on in this thread is absolutely bonkers. 6 of the first 7 picks of the Rex Ryan era, were offense. 

lmfao

This is legit one of the most bizarre threads in the history of this board.  Straight up. 

 

[dcJet]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Douglass has been here for 2 off seasons. He has had 2 drafts, and 2 FA classes. His first year he came in after FA & the draft. One of those drafts and FA classes was tailored for the Gase CS.

Saleh has been here one season. 

The plan going forward is JD & Saleh plan and it just started this season. Yes we have sucked for 10 seasons, including this one. 

What do you think of the 2021 draft class and how they're being developed so far?

I get your points.

I've been saying forever that we keep hiring rookie GM's and rookie defensive coaches and when they get experience on our dime, we fire them for more rookies.  I want continuity.  JD has done enough to convince me to keep him.  I hated his first draft especially that trade down that got us Mims instead of Claypool.  JD's second draft was great.  He may miss on Zach but I loved the way he identified his players and got aggressive to get them.  Shades of Tanny.

I think Saleh's over his head but we're stuck with him.  No way I'm firing a rookie coach after one season.  He gets to learn and hopefully improve.

This thread is about Saleh's comments that he has a plan.  The ******* arrogance for him to put this crap on the field and tell us to STFU and trust him.  That's what I'm railing about in this thread.

[JustInFudge]

29 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I dont remember it this way. Mangini's sucked? His team hated him? What evidence? Mangini's team was developing positively until Woody Johnson stepped in and forced Brett Favre of all prima donas on a second (3d?) year HC all to sell Favre jerseys. I blame Woody more than Mangini. They yanked Kellen Clemens (who lasted 10 years in the NFL) way too soon in favor of Favre who was at the end of his career and the height of his selfish prima dona divisiveness. If they didnt like Clemens then they should have drafted another young Qb to develop, not force such a lightning rod of a player on a young HC.  All these years later it is universally accepted as Jets fans that Rex won with Mangini's players. 

Yes, Mangini sucked something awful and Rex Ryan proved that point by completely revamping the D and the offense, turning them into top notch units and winning consequently.  Darrelle Revis is on record saying the entire team hated Mangini's guts and he didnt think it could get worse until he played for Greg Schiano when Izdick traded him to Tampa.  The only thing that Rex Ryan inherited was an OL.  It's total garbage when people say he won with Mangini's team.  It's more convenient revisionist history nonsense. 

 

 

[Sonny Werblin]

13 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Johnson didn't rebuild it from the bare studs. Also I think there was a pretty good OL there as well. 

Ummmm, yes he did. And the O line was not good, hence the worst in the league offense.

[JustInFudge]

30 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That throwing sh*t at the wall and hoping it sticks is still the best and most relevant football we have seen for awhile. Nothing but our sh*t and losing seasons since. Minus that one weird aberration Fitz-tragic year where we choked a shot into the playoffs last gave of season. Then took a nose dive we haven’t even come close to come out of. I did like Mangini’s cameo in The Saprono’s when James Gandofini called him the Mangenious. That was cool. 
 

Was Tanny still here with Rex? 

But, it didnt work.  If it did work, Mangini wouldnt have been fired.  Instead, Rex took their hodge podge of sh*t, brought his guys in and made it great.  

[DonCorleone]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I wouldn't say all of it, but definitely most of what Moore has shown was without Wilson. You'll get no argument from me that Wilson hasn't looked good. A lot hinges on him showing he can be that dude.

I can't disagree with your assessment because the numbers back your argument.

I think that maybe not this Sunday, because of his extended absence but starting the following one, we will have a good idea if Wilson truly stinks or could it be that the offense as a whole is starting to mesh a bit. I think that if Wilson comes in and plays better than he has, it will be because of a combination of the offense playing better as a unit, the line doing a better job of protection and Wilson having some experience by watching a few games.  Also, it does not help having a weapon like Carter injured. I think that I saw defenses backing up a bit because of his ability to catch the ball and his ability to reach the second level of defenders. 

Agree/disagree?  

[Smashmouth]

7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Case in point.  The revisionist history going on in this thread is absolutely bonkers. 6 of the first 7 picks of the Rex Ryan era, were offense. 

lmfao

This is legit one of the most bizarre threads in the history of this board.  Straight up. 

 

Drafting the QB in Rex's first year was a no brainer, it had to be done . Honestly I can't remember the other 5 Offensive studs Rex and Tanny drafted to be honest

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Yes, Mangini sucked something awful and Rex Ryan proved that point by completely revamping the D and the offense, turning them into top notch units and winning consequently.  Darrelle Revis is on record saying the entire team hated Mangini's guts and he didnt think it could get worse until he played for Greg Schiano when Izdick traded him to Tampa.  The only thing that Rex Ryan inherited was an OL.  It's total garbage when people say he won with Mangini's team.  It's more convenient revisionist history nonsense. 

 

 

Rex also inherited Revis who basically made his defense elite. Credit to Rex for knowing how to maximize his strengths but to say he only inherited an OL is nonsense.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Rex also inherited Revis who basically made his defense elite. Credit to Rex for knowing how to maximize his strengths but to say he only inherited an OL is nonsense.

Rex Ryan made Darelle Revis.  Revis, hated Mangini with a passion.  Revis Island was Rex Ryan.  

[dcJet]

21 minutes ago, Claymation said:

2019 Bengals were bad besides their DL and Boyd/Mixon, that was Zac Taylor's 1st year.

29th in defense and 26th on offense, they were -14 in turnover differential.

Last year they were 26th on defense and 29th on offense.

If this is JD's 3rd year, who did he draft in all three years?

OK, let's call it two suck years for JD.

In point differential (competitiveness), approx numbers....

Bengals were -150 and  -100 points in their 1st and 2nd suck years before turning it around in year three.

We were -200 and on pace for -250 in our 1st and 2nd suck years.

Bengals are way ahead of us in the 2nd suck year is my point as to why it's not a good comparison.

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

I can't disagree with your assessment because the numbers back your argument.

I think that maybe not this Sunday, because of his extended absence but starting the following one, we will have a good idea if Wilson truly stinks or could it be that the offense as a whole is starting to mesh a bit. I think that if Wilson comes in and plays better than he has, it will be because of a combination of the offense playing better as a unit, the line doing a better job of protection and Wilson having some experience by watching a few games.  Also, it does not help having a weapon like Carter injured. I think that I saw defenses backing up a bit because of his ability to catch the ball and his ability to reach the second level of defenders. 

Agree/disagree?  

It's not clear to me what you're asking if I agree or disagree with.

For sure the offense has had time to gel and learn the system without Wilson in the lineup. Him watching other QB's executing the offense hopefully helps him develop. By the end of the season we should know a lot more about Wilson than we do today.

Not having Carter is definitely a hit but I think with this offense and the blocking scheme starting to gel the other RB's will be OK.

[doitny]

8 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Drafting the QB in Rex's first year was a no brainer, it had to be done . Honestly I can't remember the other 5 Offensive studs Rex and Tanny drafted to be honest

OL.... Slauson and Ducasse. McKnight

RB ... Greene  and  "the terminator ".....he drafted Bilal Powell and Kerley in year 3

 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Or any free agent worth the money is too smart to sign here...

There is a lot of truth in that. Cleveland is an even worse NFL destination than the NYJ and they were able to amass FA talent by basically making themselves a halfway house where the league's turds could get a shot at redemption. Some have worked out -- Hunt -- some have not -- OBJ.

When no one wants to come, you have three options: (1) massively overpay; (2) get guys with no other options due to age or performance; or (3) get guys with no other options due to character red flags. 

Let's take some risks.

[doitny]

4 minutes ago, dcJet said:

OK, let's call it two suck years for JD.

In point differential (competitiveness), approx numbers....

Bengals were -150 and  -100 points in their 1st and 2nd suck years before turning it around in year three.

We were -200 and on pace for -250 in our 1st and 2nd suck years.

Bengals are way ahead of us in the 2nd suck year is my point as to why it's not a good comparison.

since you like the Bengals would you like to know there HC record for his first 2 years?  6-25-1

if Saleh did that the planes would be flying in the middle of year 2.