Athletic podcast, Connor Hughes craps all over media myths Adams & Becton

[hmhertz]

 

[AFJF]

I don't think you rule out Fant at LT and Becton to RT for a couple years.

[undertow]

Isn't this the guy who said we had the best WRs in the league? lol

[Maxman]

53 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I don't think you rule out Fant at LT and Becton to RT for a couple years.

I want Becton to come back for the last few games so bad. Not because I think it will impact this season, but for two reasons.

1. I do want him going out on a good note.

But more importantly:

2. I want him playing Right Tackle this year.

You want to see Becton working out more in the offseason? Send him the overthecap differences between LT and RT. If that doesn't have him hit whatever target weight they set nothing will.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

I want Becton to come back for the last few games so bad. Not because I think it will impact this season, but for two reasons.

1. I do want him going out on a good note.

But more importantly:

2. I want him playing Right Tackle this year.

You want to see Becton working out more in the offseason? Send him the overthecap differences between LT and RT. If that doesn't have him hit whatever target weight they set nothing will.

I think at this stage it makes sense anyway to have him move instead of Fant (let alone instead of the trifecta of drafting another tackle, releasing Fant, and not extending Moses). I wasn't behind the idea of drafting a LT way up top at #2 and then moving Becton who looked credible at LT even as a (raw) rookie. Mostly it was against planning to use the top pick like that right after using the top pick on a LT.

But if it just happens to end up that way independent of planning/intent, it really doesn't matter. Philadelphia I'm sure drafted Lane Johnson #4 overall with the idea he'd slide over to LT when Peters started to slow down (at which point he'd move to RT or would be replaced by someone else outright). Except Peters didn't slow down for several more years, so Johnson ended up staying at RT. It ends up however it ends up. 

Fant certainly wasn't expected to be the LT of the future (or even the near future) after Becton's rookie season. If it ends up that way, and it's successful, so be it.

He's got to get onto the field first, though.

Does Saleh really bench Moses for Becton right now? I guess he could, as they've been eliminated mathematically, and everyone knows why he's doing it. It'd still be a bad look and bad for the locker room for the coach of a 3-win team to bench a reliable + performing veteran starter in favor of an unreliable non-performer getting special treatment due to draft slot. Worse still when considering the OL has finally started to look at least average to slightly above average over the last month or two, for the first time in years, and as the only such position group on the team.

I get that it might motivate Becton to get demoted to RT. But wouldn't it motivate him even more if he's benched outright (until Fant or Moses gets injured) because the coaches tell him right now he's the team's 3rd-best tackle? Handing him a starting job without actually earning it back may still be going too soft on him. But it depends on stuff they know about him firsthand (weight, work ethic, etc.) that we don't.

[derp]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think at this stage it makes sense anyway to have him move instead of Fant (let alone instead of the trifecta of drafting another tackle, releasing Fant, and not extending Moses). I wasn't behind the idea of drafting a LT way up top at #2 and then moving Becton who looked credible at LT even as a (raw) rookie. Mostly it was against planning to use the top pick like that right after using the top pick on a LT.

But if it just happens to end up that way independent of planning/intent, it really doesn't matter. Philadelphia I'm sure drafted Lane Johnson #4 overall with the idea he'd slide over to LT when Peters started to slow down (at which point he'd move to RT or would be replaced by someone else outright). Except Peters didn't slow down for several more years, so Johnson ended up staying at RT. It ends up however it ends up. 

Fant certainly wasn't expected to be the LT of the future (or even the near future) after Becton's rookie season. If it ends up that way, and it's successful, so be it.

He's got to get onto the field first, though.

Does Saleh really bench Moses for Becton right now? I guess he could, as they've been eliminated mathematically, and everyone knows why he's doing it. It'd still be a bad look and bad for the locker room for the coach of a 3-win team to bench a reliable + performing veteran starter in favor of an unreliable non-performer getting special treatment due to draft slot. Worse still when considering the OL has finally started to look at least average to slightly above average over the last month or two, for the first time in years, and as the only such position group on the team.

I get that it might motivate Becton to get demoted to RT. But wouldn't it motivate him even more if he's benched outright (until Fant or Moses gets injured) because the coaches tell him right now he's the team's 3rd-best tackle? Handing him a starting job without actually earning it back may still be going too soft on him. But it depends on stuff they know about him firsthand (weight, work ethic, etc.) that we don't.

I get the bold but, acknowledging there are some differences, isn’t this kind of already happening at an even more important position right now?

I also think they’ll be investing something in the tackle position this offseason with Moses expiring. Given the time Becton has missed that backup tackle role is important, was good to bring in Moses this offseason. And Fant is expiring after next season. If the idea is that Becton is currently the team’s third best tackle, is he bad enough that they might want to invest more heavily? Even if it’s not their pick vs. Seattle’s pick maybe talking about that first second rounder versus a client rounder or something. He’s such a huge question mark right now.

[Alentador31]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think at this stage it makes sense anyway to have him move instead of Fant (let alone instead of the trifecta of drafting another tackle, releasing Fant, and not extending Moses). I wasn't behind the idea of drafting a LT way up top at #2 and then moving Becton who looked credible at LT even as a (raw) rookie. Mostly it was against planning to use the top pick like that right after using the top pick on a LT.

But if it just happens to end up that way independent of planning/intent, it really doesn't matter. Philadelphia I'm sure drafted Lane Johnson #4 overall with the idea he'd slide over to LT when Peters started to slow down (at which point he'd move to RT or would be replaced by someone else outright). Except Peters didn't slow down for several more years, so Johnson ended up staying at RT. It ends up however it ends up. 

Fant certainly wasn't expected to be the LT of the future (or even the near future) after Becton's rookie season. If it ends up that way, and it's successful, so be it.

He's got to get onto the field first, though.

Does Saleh really bench Moses for Becton right now? I guess he could, as they've been eliminated mathematically, and everyone knows why he's doing it. It'd still be a bad look and bad for the locker room for the coach of a 3-win team to bench a reliable + performing veteran starter in favor of an unreliable non-performer getting special treatment due to draft slot. Worse still when considering the OL has finally started to look at least average to slightly above average over the last month or two, for the first time in years, and as the only such position group on the team.

I get that it might motivate Becton to get demoted to RT. But wouldn't it motivate him even more if he's benched outright (until Fant or Moses gets injured) because the coaches tell him right now he's the team's 3rd-best tackle? Handing him a starting job without actually earning it back may still be going too soft on him. But it depends on stuff they know about him firsthand (weight, work ethic, etc.) that we don't.

Becton doesn't get special treatment because of his draft slot. He gets special treatment because when healthy he is a beast.

[Sperm Edwards]

57 minutes ago, derp said:

I get the bold but, acknowledging there are some differences, isn’t this kind of already happening at an even more important position right now?

I also think they’ll be investing something in the tackle position this offseason with Moses expiring. Given the time Becton has missed that backup tackle role is important, was good to bring in Moses this offseason. And Fant is expiring after next season. If the idea is that Becton is currently the team’s third best tackle, is he bad enough that they might want to invest more heavily? Even if it’s not their pick vs. Seattle’s pick maybe talking about that first second rounder versus a client rounder or something. He’s such a huge question mark right now.

Everyone knows QB is unique, though, and Wilson was the starting QB barring his injury. But that might make it worse, as in, they're already doing this playing Wilson over Flacco. If they compound it with suddenly benching a healthy Moses for Becton he could have serious locker room issues on his hands.

I don't think they'll be investing much in the tackle position. It's probably not lost on Douglas how, bad as this season's gone, how much worse things would be if he hadn't added Moses. But Moses was added because he was cheap. If someone else ponied up $5MM base salary there'd have been no Moses on the Jets this year.

Barring him feeling he's got a work ethic issue with Becton, worse than any leaks/rumors, I think he'll view his job as being completed for finding his starting tackles. Of course he'll add a backup, but unless he simply doesn't want Fant anymore he's not going to plan on letting him go in '23 as a strategy for '22. The good news is, since Fant and Becton are both suited for LT, he doesn't have to sacrifice performance for versatility, and can just add the best RT he can get for his OT3 budget. Also even though he's a LT, Fant won't be a $20MM+ per year bank breaker like Trent Williams. 

There is no way he's using a top 10 pick on a tackle. I think it's more likely to see the team draft another QB in the top 10 than a tackle, and don't see that happening either. Nah, that high up he's going defense, with a possibility of WR. 

When I said he's the team's 3rd best tackle, a lot of that was meant right now midseason, compared to 2 starters fully in game shape, plus he'd be swapped in at a position he hasn't played for some time now. I don't think it'd be expected that he'd come in after 2 months and suddenly he's a better RT than Moses. Not the same thing when they're all working at the same pace next spring/summer.

[Sperm Edwards]

27 minutes ago, Alentador31 said:

Becton doesn't get special treatment because of his draft slot. He gets special treatment because when healthy he is a beast.

I don't think they're benching or moving Fant so fast. Truth is he's a better LT than RT, and is doing a LT's primary job as well as anyone would want. He's not the mauler Becton is in the run game and never will be, but I don't see them touching Fant for the rest of the season.

Is he right now, today, a better RT than Moses? No one doubts his ability or potential, but there are legitimate doubts that he's going to come in cold, flip sides for the first time in years, and is instantly as good or better.

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Everyone knows QB is unique, though, and Wilson was the starting QB barring his injury. But that might make it worse, as in, they're already doing this playing Wilson over Flacco. If they compound it with suddenly benching a healthy Moses for Becton he could have serious locker room issues on his hands.

I don't think they'll be investing much in the tackle position. It's probably not lost on Douglas how, bad as this season's gone, how much worse things would be if he hadn't added Moses. But Moses was added because he was cheap. If someone else ponied up $5MM base salary there'd have been no Moses on the Jets this year.

Barring him feeling he's got a work ethic issue with Becton, worse than any leaks/rumors, I think he'll view his job as being completed for finding his starting tackles. Of course he'll add a backup, but unless he simply doesn't want Fant anymore he's not going to plan on letting him go in '23 as a strategy for '22. The good news is, since Fant and Becton are both suited for LT, he doesn't have to sacrifice performance for versatility, and can just add the best RT he can get for his OT3 budget. Also even though he's a LT, Fant won't be a $20MM+ per year bank breaker like Trent Williams. 

There is no way he's using a top 10 pick on a tackle. I think it's more likely to see the team draft another QB in the top 10 than a tackle, and don't see that happening either. Nah, that high up he's going defense, with a possibility of WR. 

When I said he's the team's 3rd best tackle, a lot of that was meant right now midseason, compared to 2 starters fully in game shape, plus he'd be swapped in at a position he hasn't played for some time now. I don't think it'd be expected that he'd come in after 2 months and suddenly he's a better RT than Moses. Not the same thing when they're all working at the same pace next spring/summer.

i agree, the jets are not taking an OL in round 1 with either of their picks.  One pick is obviously a pass rusher, and the other will be either LB or wr.  Wr is still unfortunately a glaring need, with crowder probably gone, cole sucking and davis just a jag.  The 2nd round we’ll probably see a G or C taken.

[Joe Jets fan]

Beckon is going to end up being the same as Mims, both showed flashes their rookie years.  Then both turn out to be too lazy to put in the work that playing in the nfl demands.  
 

new coaching staff recognizes this and won’t play them just because of draft status.   This is a good thing

[Matt39]

If he can’t get in shape during the season, what makes you think he’ll do the work in the offseason? He got “hurt”last off-season too and showed up out of shape.That was a pretty bleak overall picture painted by Hughes.

If I had a crystal ball I’d say we’ve seen the last of Becton as a Jet unless he can transition to guard. Waste of a pick. Douglas taking him and Mims back to back…you could argue that’s fireable alone. Just pathetic scouting.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i agree, the jets are not taking an OL in round 1 with either of their picks.  One pick is obviously a pass rusher, and the other will be either LB or wr.  Wr is still unfortunately a glaring need, with crowder probably gone, cole sucking and davis just a jag.  The 2nd round we’ll probably see a G or C taken.

While it's a popular idea, I don't think it's so automatic or obvious that one pick will be a pass rusher.

I do think one will be either a LB or DB. The other could be a WR but it's too early to say (and I know nothing about this draft class, as usual). Opinions aside, the fact is he's guaranteed so much $ in 2022 in two veteran DEs and a veteran WR (like $13-14MM apiece for each of the 3), that it would be unsurprising to see him pass over both positions that early.

Where he drafts iOL is hard to say just yet. Really it depends what he does at RG in FA, and for how much guaranteed. If he brings back LDT (likely it'd only be with 1 year guaranteed for skill), and it isn't anywhere near his prior contract level, then yeah I think a 2nd round G/C is very possible. Then if the pick is an early bloomer like Humphrey this year, and it's plainly obvious over the summer, then he can either trade or put the squeeze on or outright cut McGovern (whose $9MM isn't guaranteed). But meanwhile it's not imperative the rookie starts right away, and Douglas is also not even painted into a corner where this absolutely must be the pick due to an open hole. 

But it'd be good to get in a year ahead, otherwise he'll feel the need to address it with a veteran rather than risk coming up empty (or forcing him to reach very badly) in the '23 draft. But there's a balance of how high the pick will be if you're drafting for the future more than the upcoming season; if another equally-rated player is there who satisfies both, at another position, I'd think most GMs will opt for that.

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, hmhertz said:

 

40:09-42:00
“Jamal Adams wasn’t a leader. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a captain. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a leader. You know who they thought was a leader? They thought Marcus Maye was a leader. They thought Foley Fatukasi was a leader….The only reason anyone thought he was a leader was because he said he was a leader…His screaming and yelling and incessant bullsh*t drove players nuts. They tuned him out by his last year there.”

 

cc: @Jetsfan80

@Larz

[T0mShane]

What drives me nuts with these types of podcasts is that these beat guys will hammer players and coaches with inside info that they wouldn’t dare put into their actual columns because they’re afraid the Jets would ban them from the facility.

[Alentador31]

52 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't think they're benching or moving Fant so fast. Truth is he's a better LT than RT, and is doing a LT's primary job as well as anyone would want. He's not the mauler Becton is in the run game and never will be, but I don't see them touching Fant for the rest of the season.

Is he right now, today, a better RT than Moses? No one doubts his ability or potential, but there are legitimate doubts that he's going to come in cold, flip sides for the first time in years, and is instantly as good or better.

I don't disagree but with his skillet you have to try. 

[Augustiniak]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

While it's a popular idea, I don't think it's so automatic or obvious that one pick will be a pass rusher.

I do think one will be either a LB or DB. The other could be a WR but it's too early to say (and I know nothing about this draft class, as usual). Opinions aside, the fact is he's guaranteed so much $ in 2022 in two veteran DEs and a veteran WR (like $13-14MM apiece for each of the 3), that it would be unsurprising to see him pass over both positions that early.

Where he drafts iOL is hard to say just yet. Really it depends what he does at RG in FA, and for how much guaranteed. If he brings back LDT (likely it'd only be with 1 year guaranteed for skill), and it isn't anywhere near his prior contract level, then yeah I think a 2nd round G/C is very possible. Then if the pick is an early bloomer like Humphrey this year, and it's plainly obvious over the summer, then he can either trade or put the squeeze on or outright cut McGovern (whose $9MM isn't guaranteed). But meanwhile it's not imperative the rookie starts right away, and Douglas is also not even painted into a corner where this absolutely must be the pick due to an open hole. 

But it'd be good to get in a year ahead, otherwise he'll feel the need to address it with a veteran rather than risk coming up empty (or forcing him to reach very badly) in the '23 draft. But there's a balance of how high the pick will be if you're drafting for the future more than the upcoming season; if another equally-rated player is there who satisfies both, at another position, I'd think most GMs will opt for that.

I think it is an automatic, when you consider: 1) douglas has used all his 1st and 2nd round picks so far on offense, 2) the defense, particularly the run defense, is pitiful, 3) the team has 2 picks in the 2nd round to use on OL/cb, 4) the early draft boards have enough highly ranked pass rushers where the jets will be picking, and 5) they have 2 picks in the first round so they can take a pass rusher and address another position too.  Throw in the lack of top rated qbs to potentially trade back, and we’re likely looking at a pass rusher with the jets pick and quite possibly a wr with Seattle’s pick.  I could also see douglas double dipping on defense with saleh in his ear, going DL/LB to really infuse the defense with some top rated talent.  Don’t dismiss this, i think it’s a real possibility.

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, Alentador31 said:

Becton doesn't get special treatment because of his draft slot. He gets special treatment because when healthy he is a beast.

Unfortunately, he has never been healthy.  

[The Crusher]

17 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Unfortunately, he has never been healthy.  

Healthy-ish?

[hmhertz]

2 hours ago, Alentador31 said:

Becton doesn't get special treatment because of his draft slot. He gets special treatment because when healthy he is a beast.

In his two years as a Jet the beast has proved  he is a sieve as a pass protector.

Hercules Becton barely beat Javelin Guidry in the BP 23- 21

I've seen smallish DBs knock the big dope flat on his big a** while he stood

around not blocking anybody

[Sperm Edwards]

19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think it is an automatic, when you consider: 1) douglas has used all his 1st and 2nd round picks so far on offense, 2) the defense, particularly the run defense, is pitiful, 3) the team has 2 picks in the 2nd round to use on OL/cb, 4) the early draft boards have enough highly ranked pass rushers where the jets will be picking, and 5) they have 2 picks in the first round so they can take a pass rusher and address another position too.  Throw in the lack of top rated qbs to potentially trade back, and we’re likely looking at a pass rusher with the jets pick and quite possibly a wr with Seattle’s pick.  I could also see douglas double dipping on defense with saleh in his ear, going DL/LB to really infuse the defense with some top rated talent.  Don’t dismiss this, i think it’s a real possibility.

I could easily see almost any combination of EDGE, WR, CB, S, and LB (though CB and S is the least likely combo). But among those other possible combinations involve not drafting an EDGE in round 1.

I don't see them taking any DL other than a serious edge rusher prospect. Yes I could see them taking an EDGE and LB, but I don't think it's so likely. Not unless he finds a draft day trade partner for either Carl Lawson or JFM, which is super-unlikely on both fronts. 

I'm not speaking to my own desire to draft or avoid drafting these positions. The only position/group I'm personally against taking higher up in round 1 this year is OL; not because I don't love the idea of a beastly OL but rather because you can't keep throwing the top resources always at the same group and expect non-disaster overall. It's overkill; I'd rather buy a veteran iOL FA and keep the top 5-ish pick for a position that's way harder and more expensive to fill with an elite veteran (e.g. elite edge rushers don't just hit FA; they get tagged and you have to trade a 1st rounder or more for the privilege of negotiating a top-2 contract with 3 yrs fully guaranteed).

Also keep in mind I do think there's a very strong possibility that Douglas is not going to stay pat at what is currently #4 and #7. The second #1 pick is a tremendous advantage, and with selections that early - and not drafting a QB oneself - there'll be the opportunity to trade down with one of those picks and do it again next year. And unlike 2022, following a sucky Wilson season, for the 2023 draft it's not outside the realm of possibility that they'll look hard at round 1 QBs. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

40:09-42:00
“Jamal Adams wasn’t a leader. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a captain. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a leader. You know who they thought was a leader? They thought Marcus Maye was a leader. They thought Foley Fatukasi was a leader….The only reason anyone thought he was a leader was because he said he was a leader…His screaming and yelling and incessant bullsh*t drove players nuts. They tuned him out by his last year there.”

 

cc: @Jetsfan80

@Larz

How unsurprising. I couldn't imagine being in a locker room with someone who only talks about himself -- and is always talking.

I'd long suspected exactly what Hughes says here, but none of the players seemed to say so. Maybe it's because he was still negotiating his contract - then with the Seahawks - and there's no reason to mess with a guy's money when it doesn't affect you anymore. Plus then by the time he did get that preposterous contract, no one cared anymore; he hadn't been their teammate for over a year. And lastly, a guy who talks this much is going to return the favor in kind, and so many of those ex-teammates were looking for paydays of their own, and he's got PB/AP credibility & is on a playoff team while the Jets still sucked, so on both the individual and team levels it'd just have looked like sour grapes more than legit airing of how they always felt.

But how could anyone listen to that voice flapping & fapping nonstop about me myself and I, and not do eyerolls to one another every time he opens that big mouth of his. FFS what kind of grownup (let alone leader) says, in a whiny childish voice, "Best in the nayyyy-shen" on his name intro recording? So then who even wants to get involved in an argument with him to tell him to shut the eff up already? That'd just lead to more Jamalwords being spoken. 

Leader of men, lol. 

[derp]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Everyone knows QB is unique, though, and Wilson was the starting QB barring his injury. But that might make it worse, as in, they're already doing this playing Wilson over Flacco. If they compound it with suddenly benching a healthy Moses for Becton he could have serious locker room issues on his hands.

I don't think they'll be investing much in the tackle position. It's probably not lost on Douglas how, bad as this season's gone, how much worse things would be if he hadn't added Moses. But Moses was added because he was cheap. If someone else ponied up $5MM base salary there'd have been no Moses on the Jets this year.

Barring him feeling he's got a work ethic issue with Becton, worse than any leaks/rumors, I think he'll view his job as being completed for finding his starting tackles. Of course he'll add a backup, but unless he simply doesn't want Fant anymore he's not going to plan on letting him go in '23 as a strategy for '22. The good news is, since Fant and Becton are both suited for LT, he doesn't have to sacrifice performance for versatility, and can just add the best RT he can get for his OT3 budget. Also even though he's a LT, Fant won't be a $20MM+ per year bank breaker like Trent Williams. 

There is no way he's using a top 10 pick on a tackle. I think it's more likely to see the team draft another QB in the top 10 than a tackle, and don't see that happening either. Nah, that high up he's going defense, with a possibility of WR. 

When I said he's the team's 3rd best tackle, a lot of that was meant right now midseason, compared to 2 starters fully in game shape, plus he'd be swapped in at a position he hasn't played for some time now. I don't think it'd be expected that he'd come in after 2 months and suddenly he's a better RT than Moses. Not the same thing when they're all working at the same pace next spring/summer.

Yeah QB is unique, but it really shouldn’t be since it impacts the team more than any other spot, and Becton was the starting LT barring his injury too. Saleh also has made this season about playing the young guys so QB may be unique around the league but not here. And either way with Wilson trotting every week, I can’t buy the idea that Becton playing is what’s going to tip morale over the edge of really impact it in any meaningful way.

I don’t think you can hand wave the importance of the third tackle spot as Moses was cheap. That’s why he happened specifically, but they needed tackle depth. Given how critical he’s been this season and the efforts to develop a young QB I think they’ll want to have quality tackle depth again.

I really don’t think you can say Fant is staying. We don’t know what who plays where when Becton comes back, do know Fant’s improvement happened on the left side. And all we’ve seen is Douglas let older guys go and sign guys in their mid 20’s to deals that expire before they’re 30. Fant’s play this year absolutely means you can make a case for him being the first older guy to get signed - but given he’d be the first I think it’s very debatable as to whether or not it happens. 

And it’s helpful the need for tackle depth coincides with the year before Fant expires because then they can kill two birds with one stone. Three if you count Becton as a long-term question mark. It’s not how Tannenbaum or Maccagnan team build but I think it’s how Douglas does.

There was an autocorrect issue in my OP but I’m saying I think he’s drafting a tackle day two - not with one of the first round picks. But I do think your assessment of the draft doesn’t line up with the way this draft actually is at the top. Not a good QB class - this isn’t a replacing Josh Rosen with Kyler Murray situation. The WR class has no clear top ten picks either - it’s depth in the 15-30 range. One of those guys will emerge but it’d likely be a reach. And I struggle to see how they can double dip defense at premium positions or if they would as they attempt to develop a young QB with a clearly talent deficient defense. What you’re saying makes sense in a vacuum but not for this class. Especially not QB and I’m not a Wilson guy.

I got what you meant but at the same time we’re talking about a guy who got smoked all training camp and really hasn’t gotten to play much this season - but the tackle play has been fine. Do we actually know he’s not the team’s third best tackle in game shape? I guess it’s not an ideal situation for him to come back to but the whole point is he came into the season as a major question mark off a good rookie year but a horrid training camp and hasn’t played. There’s a wide range of how good they can anticipate him being as the team gets pieced together next offseason and I think it’s important to see him a little so then can make as informed decisions as they can.

[bla bla bla]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Does Saleh really bench Moses for Becton right now? I guess he could, as they've been eliminated mathematically, and everyone knows why he's doing it. It'd still be a bad look and bad for the locker room for the coach of a 3-win team to bench a reliable + performing veteran starter in favor of an unreliable non-performer getting special treatment due to draft slot. Worse still when considering the OL has finally started to look at least average to slightly above average over the last month or two, for the first time in years, and as the only such position group on the team.

I get that it might motivate Becton to get demoted to RT. But wouldn't it motivate him even more if he's benched outright (until Fant or Moses gets injured) because the coaches tell him right now he's the team's 3rd-best tackle? Handing him a starting job without actually earning it back may still be going too soft on him. But it depends on stuff they know about him firsthand (weight, work ethic, etc.) that we don't.

I would, not so much because of draft slot, but because Becton was the starter at LT before getting rolled up on by GVR. I think Moses has been fine at RT but IMO pulling him for Becton wouldn't create any turmoil.

My guess is we don't see Becton this year, we bring in insurance at OT, and then let Fant/Becton duke out LT starter responsibilities in camp behind closed doors. 

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I could easily see almost any combination of EDGE, WR, CB, S, and LB (though CB and S is the least likely combo). But among those other possible combinations involve not drafting an EDGE in round 1.

I don't see them taking any DL other than a serious edge rusher prospect. Yes I could see them taking an EDGE and LB, but I don't think it's so likely. Not unless he finds a draft day trade partner for either Carl Lawson or JFM, which is super-unlikely on both fronts. 

I'm not speaking to my own desire to draft or avoid drafting these positions. The only position/group I'm personally against taking higher up in round 1 this year is OL; not because I don't love the idea of a beastly OL but rather because you can't keep throwing the top resources always at the same group and expect non-disaster overall. It's overkill; I'd rather buy a veteran iOL FA and keep the top 5-ish pick for a position that's way harder and more expensive to fill with an elite veteran (e.g. elite edge rushers don't just hit FA; they get tagged and you have to trade a 1st rounder or more for the privilege of negotiating a top-2 contract with 3 yrs fully guaranteed).

Also keep in mind I do think there's a very strong possibility that Douglas is not going to stay pat at what is currently #4 and #7. The second #1 pick is a tremendous advantage, and with selections that early - and not drafting a QB oneself - there'll be the opportunity to trade down with one of those picks and do it again next year. And unlike 2022, following a sucky Wilson season, for the 2023 draft it's not outside the realm of possibility that they'll look hard at round 1 QBs. 

in what is looking like a weaker draft class, i think it will be harder to move around this year although douglas seems to be adept at trading.  I do agree, again, that they will not take an OL early this year.  I expect them to go hard in FA at a veteran guard.  The FA wrs they signed have been underwhelming to say the least.  I do think that once the combine is over the jets will be staring at several wr prospects with very good measurables and ultimately, after crowder leaves, and with moore and davis the only real wrs left, douglas will strongly consider wr with Seattle’s pick.  

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

40:09-42:00
“Jamal Adams wasn’t a leader. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a captain. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a leader. You know who they thought was a leader? They thought Marcus Maye was a leader. They thought Foley Fatukasi was a leader….The only reason anyone thought he was a leader was because he said he was a leader…His screaming and yelling and incessant bullsh*t drove players nuts. They tuned him out by his last year there.”

 

cc: @Jetsfan80

@Larz

Besides paying any attention at all, I’m not sure how anyone could believe this.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

40:09-42:00
“Jamal Adams wasn’t a leader. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a captain. No one in that locker room legitimately looked at Jamal Adams as a leader. You know who they thought was a leader? They thought Marcus Maye was a leader. They thought Foley Fatukasi was a leader….The only reason anyone thought he was a leader was because he said he was a leader…His screaming and yelling and incessant bullsh*t drove players nuts. They tuned him out by his last year there.”

 

cc: @Jetsfan80

@Larz

All the money in the world can’t buy Jamal a friend, @Larz.

[Greenseed4]

There’s no guarantee that Moses comes back next year. There’s a reason he opted for the single year contract. 

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think at this stage it makes sense anyway to have him move instead of Fant (let alone instead of the trifecta of drafting another tackle, releasing Fant, and not extending Moses). I wasn't behind the idea of drafting a LT way up top at #2 and then moving Becton who looked credible at LT even as a (raw) rookie. Mostly it was against planning to use the top pick like that right after using the top pick on a LT.

But if it just happens to end up that way independent of planning/intent, it really doesn't matter. Philadelphia I'm sure drafted Lane Johnson #4 overall with the idea he'd slide over to LT when Peters started to slow down (at which point he'd move to RT or would be replaced by someone else outright). Except Peters didn't slow down for several more years, so Johnson ended up staying at RT. It ends up however it ends up. 

Fant certainly wasn't expected to be the LT of the future (or even the near future) after Becton's rookie season. If it ends up that way, and it's successful, so be it.

He's got to get onto the field first, though.

Does Saleh really bench Moses for Becton right now? I guess he could, as they've been eliminated mathematically, and everyone knows why he's doing it. It'd still be a bad look and bad for the locker room for the coach of a 3-win team to bench a reliable + performing veteran starter in favor of an unreliable non-performer getting special treatment due to draft slot. Worse still when considering the OL has finally started to look at least average to slightly above average over the last month or two, for the first time in years, and as the only such position group on the team.

I get that it might motivate Becton to get demoted to RT. But wouldn't it motivate him even more if he's benched outright (until Fant or Moses gets injured) because the coaches tell him right now he's the team's 3rd-best tackle? Handing him a starting job without actually earning it back may still be going too soft on him. But it depends on stuff they know about him firsthand (weight, work ethic, etc.) that we don't.

I don't think his play warranted an out right benching. Since Moses isn't coming back most likely, and since Becton is better than him, I think the RT plan would be best. Motivate him. Reward Fant and keep him working hard. If Fant started next year at LT, he is going to be a free agent and would get more money than he probably ever imagined.

I like Becton, I think he just needs to work harder on his weight.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, derp said:

Yeah QB is unique, but it really shouldn’t be since it impacts the team more than any other spot, and Becton was the starting LT barring his injury too. Saleh also has made this season about playing the young guys so QB may be unique around the league but not here. And either way with Wilson trotting every week, I can’t buy the idea that Becton playing is what’s going to tip morale over the edge of really impact it in any meaningful way.

I don’t think you can hand wave the importance of the third tackle spot as Moses was cheap. That’s why he happened specifically, but they needed tackle depth. Given how critical he’s been this season and the efforts to develop a young QB I think they’ll want to have quality tackle depth again.

I really don’t think you can say Fant is staying. We don’t know what who plays where when Becton comes back, do know Fant’s improvement happened on the left side. And all we’ve seen is Douglas let older guys go and sign guys in their mid 20’s to deals that expire before they’re 30. Fant’s play this year absolutely means you can make a case for him being the first older guy to get signed - but given he’d be the first I think it’s very debatable as to whether or not it happens. 

And it’s helpful the need for tackle depth coincides with the year before Fant expires because then they can kill two birds with one stone. Three if you count Becton as a long-term question mark. It’s not how Tannenbaum or Maccagnan team build but I think it’s how Douglas does.

There was an autocorrect issue in my OP but I’m saying I think he’s drafting a tackle day two - not with one of the first round picks. But I do think your assessment of the draft doesn’t line up with the way this draft actually is at the top. Not a good QB class - this isn’t a replacing Josh Rosen with Kyler Murray situation. The WR class has no clear top ten picks either - it’s depth in the 15-30 range. One of those guys will emerge but it’d likely be a reach. And I struggle to see how they can double dip defense at premium positions or if they would as they attempt to develop a young QB with a clearly talent deficient defense. What you’re saying makes sense in a vacuum but not for this class. Especially not QB and I’m not a Wilson guy.

I got what you meant but at the same time we’re talking about a guy who got smoked all training camp and really hasn’t gotten to play much this season - but the tackle play has been fine. Do we actually know he’s not the team’s third best tackle in game shape? I guess it’s not an ideal situation for him to come back to but the whole point is he came into the season as a major question mark off a good rookie year but a horrid training camp and hasn’t played. There’s a wide range of how good they can anticipate him being as the team gets pieced together next offseason and I think it’s important to see him a little so then can make as informed decisions as they can.

I didn't say they don't need tackle depth. I'm just saying it's not a 1st round thing - or a 2nd round thing - and it isn't a $6MM+ per year thing. Those are investments you make when you're looking for a starter, not for depth, and anyway not on a team with this many holes & needed upgrades.

This year was also a bit fluky as well. You don't plan on your starting LT missing 2+ months of the season, and there's typically no adequate replacement; that's what makes some guys backups. Best chance of getting a lateral move is a late spring cut like Moses, with little competitive interest from other teams so he's cheap, or a current/recent mid- or late-round pick who is surprisingly good right away (e.g. Fabini, and then a year later, Ryan Young). But a team with this many 1st team spots in need of upgrading has no business first filling in backup spots in round 2. If they take a tackle in round 2 this spring it means they're preparing for life without/after Becton not Fant, and quite possibly starting in 2022 not just for the future/emergency.

I also don't agree that a specific Douglas pattern of letting older guys go is relevant. He let older guys go when they weren't good enough (and/or were actually getting worse); they were acquired by Maccagnan not by himself; may not have been a scheme fit; may have been damaged goods; and the team was just getting started in his teardown. I think he'll make a serious effort to extend Fant if he's still playing at this level through October next year and Becton is still a question mark. This is one of JD's wins; he's not going to be so eager to ditch it.

Also the action he gets, keep in mind the team - unlike the fans - does see him in action in practices. Or at least they did before they went virtual this week. I think that makes it less likely they'll sub Becton in because he won't get enough practice reps before a game. Anyway, just like with Mims, they saw to know they didn't need to see him in games with the way he looked in practice. Fans didn't see that, so it looked like he was just getting benched for no reason. Could be the same thing is going on with Becton. I've no idea one way or the other.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I don't think his play warranted an out right benching. Since Moses isn't coming back most likely, and since Becton is better than him, I think the RT plan would be best. Motivate him. Reward Fant and keep him working hard. If Fant started next year at LT, he is going to be a free agent and would get more money than he probably ever imagined.

I like Becton, I think he just needs to work harder on his weight.

I loved Becton after last year; it's not that.

I'm admittedly concerned they're keeping him out the same way they kept Mims out. Like I just said above, we don't see what they see. We're only afforded seeing him if he's playing in live games. The team can plainly see if he's not ready or fit to be back on the field right now. I think the extended time off could have something to do with that, but really I've got no idea. It would fit, though; the injury being worse than initially thought isn't the only explanation.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I would, not so much because of draft slot, but because Becton was the starter at LT before getting rolled up on by GVR. I think Moses has been fine at RT but IMO pulling him for Becton wouldn't create any turmoil.

My guess is we don't see Becton this year, we bring in insurance at OT, and then let Fant/Becton duke out LT starter responsibilities in camp behind closed doors. 

Know what didn't happen? Him starting at LT week 1 after not practicing with the team for >2 months. It's not the same thing.

I think your 2nd paragraph is exactly what they'll do. But for my 3rd post in a row, they see him even though we don't. And it's a sound plan, especially because both of them could play both tackle positions. 

Thing is Fant seems to be a better LT than RT - really he wasn't particularly good at the latter last year, but then he did initially beat out Moses this summer so who knows - but anyway the line overall may be better by moving Becton to Moses's spot instead of putting Fant at RT.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

in what is looking like a weaker draft class, i think it will be harder to move around this year although douglas seems to be adept at trading.  I do agree, again, that they will not take an OL early this year.  I expect them to go hard in FA at a veteran guard.  The FA wrs they signed have been underwhelming to say the least.  I do think that once the combine is over the jets will be staring at several wr prospects with very good measurables and ultimately, after crowder leaves, and with moore and davis the only real wrs left, douglas will strongly consider wr with Seattle’s pick.  

Yeah it's easier for fans to sour on an acquisition with a $14MM guarantee for next season than it is for the GM. I don't doubt he'll strongly consider WR in round 1, but I don't think either EDGE or WR are etched into stone. I could easily see scenarios where they draft neither in round 1 this year, since they're no less desperate at LB and the secondary. 

[ScarletKnight89]

It would really be nice if Becton makes it back, plays well, and Moore comes back for the final two games and he and Zach play well together like the Eagles game.

I'll consider that a win. 

[Green Ghost]

I haven’t read the thread, but here’s what I think…

Nobody here wants to say it, but just imagine if a Dolphins or Patriot GM started his tenure drafting Becton, Mims and Wilson then a LG with his top picks his first two years. I’m not even going to bring up the rest of the ‘20 picks.

As for Becton, imo when Becton is healthy he goes right back to LT for the same reason Wilson is starting. You don’t give up on, and bench your #1 pick before he’s played two seasons.

Both these guys were drafted as cornerstones of JDs legacy, he’s not throwing either to the curb as quickly as a fan would.