OTA Updates. Wednesday June 1

[munchmemory]

8 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Sounds like an investigative job for @Jetsfan80

I'll clear my schedule and help with this effort if @Jetsfan80 is busy.

[Warfish]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I get where you're coming from, but when you take a QB at #2 the cat is out of the bag already. He IS the new QB unless he's Josh Rosen out of the gate and never gets any better at all. There's no great mystery that he's going to see the field, especially on a stripped-down roster in early rebuild stages, and some temporary bull***t competition with the Bryce Hall of QBs isn't going to get people inside or outside the organization thinking, "Hm, well maybe they'll never play him."

Yes, that is how almost every team would handle it, but that does not make it the right handling methodology.

I do not, and likely never will, agree with the "f' it, just play him, who cares if he sucks or isn't ready" mindset.

That mindset has cost our Franchise several years of wasted seasons, because we had no plan other than "f' it!"

First, it would be good if we (the Jets) could finally draft a QB who actually IS elite early on, and doesn't need all the excuse making and hopium that say, Darnold required after year 1, and Zach has required after year 1.  Some rookies actually ARE pretty great as soon as they see playing time.  One day I hope we draft one of them.

But since we haven't, then their slot means bupkis to me.  Earn.  Your.  Job.  Our failure as a franchise to hold that ethic close to our hearts is, IMO, part of why we fail so regularly.

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Plus even as I am (and was) in favor of it, the competition probably would've been useless in this case in terms of who's the week 1 starter, with the benefit of hindsight, since Wilson actually looked really good in preseason.

Did he tho?  Or was he just hyped.  I think I know what I think the truth of that glorious camp campaign really was....

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

His problems surfaced once preseason ended and the games/plays actually counted. However as much as the mentor thing is also overblown, a veteran would've been of help for him in August & beyond, seeing how he had no QBC for his rookie preseason TC/games.

Zach rather clearly wasn't ready for the NFL game.  Even by year's end, I would not have described him as 'ready to start in the NFL'.  As some of us noted at the time, BYU's opposition was kindergarten-level compared to the NFL.  He was making a massive leap.  And he wasn't ready.

The best thing for him, IMO, would have been to sit behind a capable veteran and learn for a year.  The last best QB we had did exactly that (Chad).  Every QB since has been rushed in, and busted.

Hopefully Zach, starting in year 2, breaks that long-running trend.

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's not at all about what the fans demand; that's not my argument at all & has never been part of it. I think to a degree they need to learn by doing (the prerequisite being a grounded base, like knowing the playbook & not having clown-like footwork). Beyond that I'd revert to Doggin94's logic where he could sit in favor of a temporary veteran if the team could actually go somewhere with the team's veteran QB or if the rookie is just so impossibly bad that he's not getting experience at all he's just picking up bad habits and/or reinforcing them. Also if he's just a young, arrogant douche who needs to eat several slices of humble pie with some turd a la mode.

We'll never know where the 2021 team could/would have gone with a capable Vet, because we never have a capable Vet.

We have rookies (Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, Zach).  And we pair them with broken down old check-cashing oldsters (Flacco, Fitz, McCown).

The Jets have simply never tried signing an actual, capable Veteran QB to play here, with or without a rookie/drafted/young QB behind them.

Vinny was ancient when he got here, and he's the best Vet we had apart from Fitz's one year of lolglory.

Nope, it's always the same.  Broken old men.  Or busty kids.

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I still would've gotten a serious other QB option in here last year. In truth, I would've done it this year, too. I don't think Flacco is as bad as some think for a short stint, but it's not realistic that they'd hand him the reins for 12-14 (or more) games if Wilson hasn't massively improved, so I'd have gone with a more realistic option. But that's me & no one's hiring me to be the GM anyway, so there you go lol. 

Flacco is horrible, the epitome of 'just cashing checks". 

He is 2-11 since leaving Baltimore for a reason.

It is what it is.  I just hope for once my usual cynicism, and my doubts in the way the Jets do business with the QB position, can be proven wrong.  I really, REALLY want Zach to give me some damn hope.  And not the "hope" people saw last year, but real, actual hope because he actually produces or starts producing to an elite QB level. 

[Embrace the Suck]

6 hours ago, maury77 said:

I know I'm going toi get downvotes for this,  but why does Gardner "have to earn it" when Zach Wilson was handed the starting job last year right out the gate?

To start, CB had some depth as opposed to none at QB. To continue further the CBA has driven down the amount of reps in camp. You can't waste them on a dog and pony show. They needed the QB who they knew would be starting to start getting reps with the 1's. 

[JohnnyLV]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, that is how almost every team would handle it, but that does not make it the right handling methodology.

I do not, and likely never will, agree with the "f' it, just play him, who cares if he sucks or isn't ready" mindset.

That mindset has cost our Franchise several years of wasted seasons, because we had no plan other than "f' it!"

First, it would be good if we (the Jets) could finally draft a QB who actually IS elite early on, and doesn't need all the excuse making and hopium that say, Darnold required after year 1, and Zach has required after year 1.  Some rookies actually ARE pretty great as soon as they see playing time.  One day I hope we draft one of them.

But since we haven't, then their slot means bupkis to me.  Earn.  Your.  Job.  Our failure as a franchise to hold that ethic close to our hearts is, IMO, part of why we fail so regularly.

Did he tho?  Or was he just hyped.  I think I know what I think the truth of that glorious camp campaign really was....

Zach rather clearly wasn't ready for the NFL game.  Even by year's end, I would not have described him as 'ready to start in the NFL'.  As some of us noted at the time, BYU's opposition was kindergarten-level compared to the NFL.  He was making a massive leap.  And he wasn't ready.

The best thing for him, IMO, would have been to sit behind a capable veteran and learn for a year.  The last best QB we had did exactly that (Chad).  Every QB since has been rushed in, and busted.

Hopefully Zach, starting in year 2, breaks that long-running trend.

We'll never know where the 2021 team could/would have gone with a capable Vet, because we never have a capable Vet.

We have rookies (Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, Zach).  And we pair them with broken down old check-cashing oldsters (Flacco, Fitz, McCown).

The Jets have simply never tried signing an actual, capable Veteran QB to play here, with or without a rookie/drafted/young QB behind them.

Vinny was ancient when he got here, and he's the best Vet we had apart from Fitz's one year of lolglory.

Nope, it's always the same.  Broken old men.  Or busty kids.

Flacco is horrible, the epitome of 'just cashing checks". 

He is 2-11 since leaving Baltimore for a reason.

It is what it is.  I just hope for once my usual cynicism, and my doubts in the way the Jets do business with the QB position, can be proven wrong.  I really, REALLY want Zach to give me some damn hope.  And not the "hope" people saw last year, but real, actual hope because he actually produces or starts producing to an elite QB level. 

Sorry to see your perspective must make it hard to root for our team with all that bias. I also just fundamentally disagree with almost everything you said. I remain super optimistic for Zach, and whatever happened with Sanchez, Geno or Darnold is completely irrelevant.

[munchmemory]

Ever notice that the mantra about him is almost always, "Hopefully Zach..."  That should say something.

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

I've said it repeatedly last year and I'll say it again now. It made 100% sense to start Wilson because in essence the whole offense was learning a new offense under a new CS. They all got to grow and learn valuable experience which will be a springboard to this season. Starting a vet in this scenario made absolutely no sense whatsoever. 

I would add the GM and the CS don't have the luxury of letting Zach sit and learn a year.  They need to know sooner vs. later whether they have a FQB or whatever they're drafting another QB before their contracts are up...

[Bronx]

DumbChitmini has spoken!

 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

 

 

The Jets have simply never tried signing an actual, capable Veteran QB to play here, with or without a rookie/drafted/young QB behind them.

Vinny was ancient when he got here, and he's the best Vet we had apart from Fitz's one year of lolglory.

 

Boomer

O'Donnell

Bubby

Vinny

Fav're

 

It's all the Jets did for decades. 

 

[Drums]

53 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Ever notice that the mantra about him is almost always, "Hopefully Zach..."  That should say something.

Yup. That he was a rookie.  

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Sorry to see your perspective must make it hard to root for our team with all that bias.

Not at all.

I'm constantly surprised how some people can't separate analysis from rooting interest.

I can't fathom being such a "fanatic" that I lose sight of reality tbqh, or engage in counterfactual rationalizations.

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I also just fundamentally disagree with almost everything you said.

Not much of an defense, but fair enough.

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I remain super optimistic for Zach

I am neither "optimistic" nor "pessimistic".  

I'm rooting for him, because he is the Jets starting QB, and because he's currently our best chance to be good at QB.  For now.

But based on his rookie year, I have little objective reason to think he will be a great or top 5 type guy in the future. 

He has to prove himself at this level, and he hasn't yet.  Hopefully he will in 2022 with this great looking on-paper supporting cast.  

Respect is earned.  I hope he starts earning it.  On the field, with production and wins.

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

, and whatever happened with Sanchez, Geno or Darnold is completely irrelevant.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

How the team was managed in the past is absolutely relevant for the future. 

Winners learn from their mistakes, losers just repeat them.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Drums said:

Yup. That he was a rookie.  

Not for much longer.

Then it'll be "He's only a second year player, X wasn't good till his third year!" if he plays poorly this year, lol.

[Hal N of Provo]

2 hours ago, Bronx said:

DumbChitmini has spoken!

 

If anyone wants to save the click on Twitter…

[Hal N of Provo]

14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not for much longer.

Then it'll be "He's only a second year player, X wasn't good till his third year!" if he plays poorly this year, lol.

Zach will be better this season.  But he won’t satisfy the haters cause 2nd year QBs aren’t vets.  
 

The full eval on a rookie takes 3 years unless they prove they don’t have it sooner.  I don’t know why you think that’s unusual or funny. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Zach will be better this season.

I hope so.

2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

But he won’t satisfy the haters cause 2nd year QBs aren’t vets.  

He was drafted to be an elite top-level starting QB.  

2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

The full eval on a rookie takes 3 years unless they prove they don’t have it sooner.  I don’t know why you think that’s unusual or funny. 

Already making excuses for why he won't be good in 2022.  

It's funny how little actual faith his biggest fanatics actually have in him.

If you really believed he was going to be great, you're not already telling people "wait till 2023, can't judge before that season", lol.

Here is Justin Herberts 2nd year:  65.9%, 5,014 Yards, 38 TD's to 15 INT's.

Guess you think Zach can't hold Herbert's jock, eh?

[Hal N of Provo]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I hope so.

He was drafted to be an elite top-level starting QB.  

Already making excuses for why he won't be good in 2022.  

It's funny how little actual faith his biggest fanatics actually have in him.

If you really believed he was going to be great, you're not already telling people "wait till 2023, can't judge before that season", lol.

Here is Justin Herberts 2nd year:  65.9%, 5,014 Yards, 38 TD's to 15 INT's.

Guess you think Zach can't hold Herbert's jock, eh?

Lol.   I think Zach will be fine.   I don’t think you draft QBs to be great in year 2 - you sign  a mediocre vet to do that. 

I think some people complain about the great ones when they are in the middle of their runs, and JN has a disproportionate number of people who would do that.   It’s more comment on the haters than Zach lol. 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Lol.   I think Zach will be fine.

I hope he's a hell of alot better than "fine".

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

  I don’t think you draft QBs to be great in year 2 - you sign  a mediocre vet to do that. 

LOL.  

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I think some people complain about the great ones when they are in the middle of their runs, and JN has a disproportionate number of people who would do that.

Let me know when we have a "great one in the middle of their run", and we can start looking at who is hating on that guy and why.  

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

  It’s more comment on the haters than Zach lol. 

Zach's Fanatics:  He's elite, great, special, dreamy even, just don't judge him, or rush him or have any expectations for him, or expect any production from him till at least the end of his third season, otherwise you're a hater, lol.

Meanwhile, Chargers Fans have an actual elite young QB actually being elite while we have these kinds of debates, lol. 

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, Warfish said:

I hope he's a hell of alot better than "fine".

LOL.  

Let me know when we have a "great one in the middle of their run", and we can start looking at who is hating on that guy and why.  

Zach's Fanatics:  He's elite, great, special, dreamy even, just don't judge him, or rush him or have any expectations for him, or expect any production from him till at least the end of his third season, otherwise you're a hater, lol.

Meanwhile, Chargers Fans have an actual elite young QB actually being elite while we have these kinds of debates, lol. 

So you pick the biggest outlier you can find and want to hold Zach to that standard?

Every great person or athlete has detractors.   People bag on every QB.  Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, all of them. 

[Drums]

43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not for much longer.

Then it'll be "He's only a second year player, X wasn't good till his third year!" if he plays poorly this year, lol.

Haha, it might happen, but I think after Sam, and what JD has done to build around him, year 2 is make or break--at least in the eyes of the majority of fans on this message board. All gas no excuses.

[Bowles Movement]

I think that anything around 4000 yds 65 percent comp 25td 10 int  would be pretty encouraging.   I wouldnt be shocked to see Zac throwing for 5000 yds and 40 TDs but I think thats probably a yr away.  After a full year with all these receivers this offense is going to be explosive.

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

So you pick the biggest outlier you can find and want to hold Zach to that standard?

Seems maybe all than fanaticism might just be hot air, lacking any real confidence.

But if you don't think Zach can produce like Herbert, how about one of these other recently drafted franchise QB's instead:

Joe Burrow Year 2 - 16 Starts, 70.4% Comp Rate. 288.2 Passing YPG.  34-14 TD-INT.

Tua Tags Year 2 - 12 Starts, 67.8% Comp Rate, 204.1 Passing YPG, 16-10 TD-INT.

Justin Herbert Year 2 - 17 Starts, 65.9% Comp Rate, 294.9 Passing YPG, 38-15 TD-INT.

Kyler Murray Year 2 - 16 Starts, 64.4% Comp Rate, 248.2 Passing YPG, 26-12 TD-INT.

Josh Allen Year 2 - 16 Starts, 58.8% Comp Rate, 193.1 Passing YPG, 20-9 TD-INT.

Lamar Jackson Year 2 - 15 Starts, 66.1% Comp Rate, 208.5 Passing YPG, 36-9 TD-INT.

Patrick Mahomes Year 2 - 16 Starts, 66.0% Comp Rate, 318.6 Passing YPG, 50-12 TD-INT.

Deshaun Watson Year 2 - 16 Starts, 68.3% Comp Rate, 260.3 Passing YPG, 26-9 TD-INT.

Jared Goff Year 2 - 15 Starts, 62.1% Comp Rate, 253.6 Passing YPG, 28-7 TD-INT.

Carson Wentz Year 2 - 13 Starts, 60.2% Comp Rate, 253.5 Passing YPG, 33-7 TD-INT.

I mean.....you DO think Zach is a Franchise QB, right? 

Or do you just like to say he is, but not actually expect him to play or produce like one?

It must be hard to reconcile this kind of cognitive dissonance.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I wouldnt be shocked to see Zac throwing for 5000 yds and 40 TDs but I think thats probably a yr away.

I will admit, I will be shocked if Zach throws for 5,000 and 40 TD's, this year or next.

Very happily shocked, but shocked none the less.

[JohnnyLV]

58 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not at all.

I'm constantly surprised how some people can't separate analysis from rooting interest.

I can't fathom being such a "fanatic" that I lose sight of reality tbqh, or engage in counterfactual rationalizations.

Not much of an defense, but fair enough.

I am neither "optimistic" nor "pessimistic".  

I'm rooting for him, because he is the Jets starting QB, and because he's currently our best chance to be good at QB.  For now.

But based on his rookie year, I have little objective reason to think he will be a great or top 5 type guy in the future. 

He has to prove himself at this level, and he hasn't yet.  Hopefully he will in 2022 with this great looking on-paper supporting cast.  

Respect is earned.  I hope he starts earning it.  On the field, with production and wins.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

How the team was managed in the past is absolutely relevant for the future. 

Winners learn from their mistakes, losers just repeat them.

I am very happy you can separate them. I will admit my analysis is not always 100% objective but I am not completely blind   

In terms iof QBs I just believe you choose one be it vet or rookie and then 100% commit to that guy until it is clear he is not the guy.

In terms of repeating the past, I don't think we are. I think there are a few key distinctions. First and biggest is that unlike the others we are 100% committed to Zach. We neutered Samchez, and surrounded Sam and Geno with squadouche. Like nothing. We have surrounded Zach with more this off-season and last season with more than I could even remotely imagine. Outside of Zach we might be close to Top 10 in offensive talent and among the most balanced.

Second, subjectively I just think Zach is way more talented than the others. Release speed is I think maybe the most overlooked trait and his release is up there with the very best.

Third, he is in the same system and a great fit for h8m as well.

Fourth, people say they are excuses bur thete were a lot if weird factors that diminished his performance. He almost never had his starters. LaFleur went to the booth in the White game. LaFleur spent 5 games forcing run run pass which us crippling to a rookie QB. He had the highest drop percentage. Something like 9 of his completions were tackled at the 1. Just slight differences that could have changed the statistical perspective. He still would be bad but nothing like his stats would suggest.

Just opinion but fifth he us the smartest and hardest working of the rookies.

Seventh, it us interesting  to note that we have never really had an offense that was sort if veteran ready. We do now. Zach has everything he needs to perform and I think he will

 

 

[Bowles Movement]

43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Seems maybe all than fanaticism might just be hot air, lacking any real confidence.

But if you don't think Zach can produce like Herbert, how about one of these other recently drafted franchise QB's instead:

Joe Burrow Year 2 - 16 Starts, 70.4% Comp Rate. 288.2 Passing YPG.  34-14 TD-INT.

Tua Tags Year 2 - 12 Starts, 67.8% Comp Rate, 204.1 Passing YPG, 16-10 TD-INT.

Justin Herbert Year 2 - 17 Starts, 65.9% Comp Rate, 294.9 Passing YPG, 38-15 TD-INT.

Kyler Murray Year 2 - 16 Starts, 64.4% Comp Rate, 248.2 Passing YPG, 26-12 TD-INT.

Josh Allen Year 2 - 16 Starts, 58.8% Comp Rate, 193.1 Passing YPG, 20-9 TD-INT.

Lamar Jackson Year 2 - 15 Starts, 66.1% Comp Rate, 208.5 Passing YPG, 36-9 TD-INT.

Patrick Mahomes Year 2 - 16 Starts, 66.0% Comp Rate, 318.6 Passing YPG, 50-12 TD-INT.

Deshaun Watson Year 2 - 16 Starts, 68.3% Comp Rate, 260.3 Passing YPG, 26-9 TD-INT.

Jared Goff Year 2 - 15 Starts, 62.1% Comp Rate, 253.6 Passing YPG, 28-7 TD-INT.

Carson Wentz Year 2 - 13 Starts, 60.2% Comp Rate, 253.5 Passing YPG, 33-7 TD-INT.

I mean.....you DO think Zach is a Franchise QB, right? 

Or do you just like to say he is, but not actually expect him to play or produce like one?

It must be hard to reconcile this kind of cognitive dissonance.

If you were to take the bottom half of this list Id expect Wilson to be right in there statistically this year and in the top half of this list next year.

If he isnt on that trajectory, then its time to start looking for a serious challenger.

[jNYC1]

6 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

So you pick the biggest outlier you can find and want to hold Zach to that standard?

Every great person or athlete has detractors.   People bag on every QB.  Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, all of them. 

Holding Zach to the standard of potential FQB is why he was drafted #2 overall.  When you look at the QBs that are Top 12-15 in the league, they had better rookie seasons than Zach, and strong second years (excluding the real biggest outlier - Josh Allen).

A strong second year is the expectation that fans should be comfortable with... Its interesting that most fans that are most bullish on Zach, happen to have the lowest expectations for Zach in year 2.

If Zach is good enough to have haters like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers... that is a dream come true.

[jNYC1]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am very happy you can separate them. I will admit my analysis is not always 100% objective but I am not completely blind   

In terms iof QBs I just believe you choose one be it vet or rookie and then 100% commit to that guy until it is clear he is not the guy.

In terms of repeating the past, I don't think we are. I think there are a few key distinctions. First and biggest is that unlike the others we are 100% committed to Zach. We neutered Samchez, and surrounded Sam and Geno with squadouche. Like nothing. We have surrounded Zach with more this off-season and last season with more than I could even remotely imagine. Outside of Zach we might be close to Top 10 in offensive talent and among the most balanced.

Second, subjectively I just think Zach is way more talented than the others. Release speed is I think maybe the most overlooked trait and his release is up there with the very best.

Third, he is in the same system and a great fit for h8m as well.

Fourth, people say they are excuses bur thete were a lot if weird factors that diminished his performance. He almost never had his starters. LaFleur went to the booth in the White game. LaFleur spent 5 games forcing run run pass which us crippling to a rookie QB. He had the highest drop percentage. Something like 9 of his completions were tackled at the 1. Just slight differences that could have changed the statistical perspective. He still would be bad but nothing like his stats would suggest.

Just opinion but fifth he us the smartest and hardest working of the rookies.

Seventh, it us interesting  to note that we have never really had an offense that was sort if veteran ready. We do now. Zach has everything he needs to perform and I think he will

 

 

Agree with all of the points.  It also speaks to an improved plan from the organization (coaching and GM),

Given the above, this season should provide enough data to determine if we ride with Zach into year 3... for all of the reasons for optimism outlined.

A bottom 10 QB season from Zach, and the franchise should be putting the contingency plan in place in year 3.  I think many fans will see a jump from be 31 or 32nd QB in the league to the 22nd ranked QB as progress.  It is more likely a high probability indicator that Zach will not be a FQB.

[thebuzzardman]

Hopefully Zach passes for 5000 yards, because he'll suck if he doesn't. 

[slimjasi]

4 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

Hopefully Zach passes for 5000 yards, because he'll suck if he doesn't. 

This made me spit out my coffee 

[freestater]

13 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

If anyone wants to save the click on Twitter…

Joe Douglas, o-line guru, has no tackles show up to first practices. Lol. Maybe he can talk Ryan Kalil into cashing another paycheck. 

[slats]

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

Seems maybe all than fanaticism might just be hot air, lacking any real confidence.

But if you don't think Zach can produce like Herbert, how about one of these other recently drafted franchise QB's instead:

Joe Burrow Year 2 - 16 Starts, 70.4% Comp Rate. 288.2 Passing YPG.  34-14 TD-INT.

Tua Tags Year 2 - 12 Starts, 67.8% Comp Rate, 204.1 Passing YPG, 16-10 TD-INT.

Justin Herbert Year 2 - 17 Starts, 65.9% Comp Rate, 294.9 Passing YPG, 38-15 TD-INT.

Kyler Murray Year 2 - 16 Starts, 64.4% Comp Rate, 248.2 Passing YPG, 26-12 TD-INT.

Josh Allen Year 2 - 16 Starts, 58.8% Comp Rate, 193.1 Passing YPG, 20-9 TD-INT.

Lamar Jackson Year 2 - 15 Starts, 66.1% Comp Rate, 208.5 Passing YPG, 36-9 TD-INT.

Patrick Mahomes Year 2 - 16 Starts, 66.0% Comp Rate, 318.6 Passing YPG, 50-12 TD-INT.

Deshaun Watson Year 2 - 16 Starts, 68.3% Comp Rate, 260.3 Passing YPG, 26-9 TD-INT.

Jared Goff Year 2 - 15 Starts, 62.1% Comp Rate, 253.6 Passing YPG, 28-7 TD-INT.

Carson Wentz Year 2 - 13 Starts, 60.2% Comp Rate, 253.5 Passing YPG, 33-7 TD-INT.

I mean.....you DO think Zach is a Franchise QB, right? 

Or do you just like to say he is, but not actually expect him to play or produce like one?

It must be hard to reconcile this kind of cognitive dissonance.

I think you often get hung up on numbers. Football is such a complex sport, and each facet of the team is dependent on every other for a team to have success. A QB won’t be successful without an OL to block, receivers to catch, or a defense that can get off the field. A QB playing from behind all the time is going to have to take more chances, and thus make more mistakes. 
 
For reference, Tom Brady, who sat for a full year, didn’t hit 65% passing or throw for more than 30 TDs until he was in his seventh year starting at the age of 30 in their not quite undefeated season. He first threw for 4000 yards in his fifth season at 28. His ypa broke 7.0 for the first time in his fourth season as a starter. Yet we throw those kinds of numbers around like they’re league averages or minimum expectations. They’re not. 
 
I’m pretty excited about the team they’re building here, and hope that team all but eliminates any excuses for poor play. I think they really wanted that veteran stud WR, and that could be something of a hole in a group with a lot of talent but not a ton of production. But as I’ve been saying all along -and it became more obvious after the draft- this is going to be a run first team. I don’t think they’re nearly as interested, this year, in having a top passing attack. I do, however, think that they’re looking to put together a top five type rushing attack. The goal this season will be to take some of that pressure back off of Zach and get him feeling comfortable. So 63%, 3500+ yards, 22+ TDs, hopefully close to half (or less) ints, and right around 7 yards per attempt, will be perfectly fine for me as long as he’s looking the part. I think with numbers like that, he will be. Especially if they can run the ball for close to 140 yards a game. 

[C Mart]

21 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Nov 16, 2021

The Buffalo Bills have had another rookie draft pick plucked from their practice squad this season.

On Tuesday, the team the Bills (6-3) beat in Week 10, the New York Jets, announced that they have added cornerback Rachad Wildgoose to their roster. Since the end of training camp, Wildgoose had been on the Bills’ taxi squad.

A team in the NFL can sign players off of any other cub’s practice squad throughout the season if they want to.

But that player has to be signed to the active 53-man roster. Essentially, it’s a promotion for the player.

In the Bills’ win over the Jets, New York lost cornerback Brandin Echols to a quad injury.

According to Jets Wire, Echols will miss three-to-five weeks, so he’s on injured reserve. Wildgoose takes his place.

Both Echols and Wildgoose are sixth-round rookies.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/jets-sign-rachad-wildgoose-off-of-bills-practice-squad/ar-AAQMOjZ

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, slats said:

For reference, Tom Brady, who sat for a full year, didn’t hit 65% passing or throw for more than 30 TDs until he was in his seventh year starting at the age of 30 in their not quite undefeated season. He first threw for 4000 yards in his fifth season at 28. His ypa broke 7.0 for the first time in his fourth season as a starter. Yet we throw those kinds of numbers around like they’re league averages or minimum expectations. They’re not. 
 

 

OK, but the game was also very different then, even in Brady's 4th-6th seasons in the league.

19 QB's threw for 7.0+ YPA last season, for instance.  A list that includes the likes of Mac Jones, Teddy Bridgewater, and a 36-year old Matt Ryan whose team went 7-10.  22 QB's did it in 2020, and 20 did it in 2019.

Only 12 QB's hit that mark in 2006.

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

OK, but the game was also very different then, even in Brady's 4th-6th seasons in the league.

19 QB's threw for 7.0+ YPA last season, for instance.  A list that includes the likes of Mac Jones, Teddy Bridgewater, and a 36-year old Matt Ryan whose team went 7-10.  22 QB's did it in 2020, and 20 did it in 2019.

Only 12 QB's hit that mark in 2006.

As I said in the post you quoted from, I’m looking for 7ypa this season. I understand that the game has evolved but in 2005 15 passers hit 7, and in 2007, 16 did. In 2004, 20 did. So it’s not like the game has evolved that much. 

[Hal N of Provo]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

As I said in the post you quoted from, I’m looking for 7ypa this season. I understand that the game has evolved but in 2005 15 passers hit 7, and in 2007, 16 did. In 2004, 20 did. So it’s not like the game has evolved that much. 

I like the YPA as a good place to start.  
 

Improvment in YPA will match what I want to see in the eye test.  I really want to see Zach look away faster on man and get through his options quicker.  I hope this season at least one option will be open every play. 
 

Zach ripped up the standard Zones most QBs see the majority of the time.  If the team can make a big step against man, it will be a good season, especially if they also establish a run game.  

If the Jets can pound the rock, they will.   That means less throws and possessions per game.  That’s why I’m not playing the stats game.   I want to see better QB play. 

The system is not designed for big passing yards, but it can lead to lots of TD passes.  

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, slats said:

I think you often get hung up on numbers. Football is such a complex sport, and each facet of the team is dependent on every other for a team to have success. A QB won’t be successful without an OL to block, receivers to catch, or a defense that can get off the field. A QB playing from behind all the time is going to have to take more chances, and thus make more mistakes. 

You know who says things like this?

Fans of teams who don't have clear-cut Franchise QB's.

Franchise QB's don't have to have their fans rationalize all the possible reasons/excuses for why they're not producing like franchise QB's.

3 hours ago, slats said:

I’m pretty excited about the team they’re building here, and hope that team all but eliminates any excuses for poor play.

I am as well, actually.  Was and am extremely excited by this 2022 draft class.  This roster is, on paper, very competitive talent-wise.  

But it all rises or falls on the back of the QB. 

Zach'/s improvement will decide where we go and how competitive we are.  Nothing else come close to as important as that.

[yvj]

Since you're all here I assume you've been waiting for my two cents. I've consulted with my Tarot reader. Based on how the season ended and the spirits she predicted with a decent supporting cast Zach will Matt Stafford the league (pre superbowl). 

Personally I hope he becomes a top 5 QB but only time can tell.