NY Jets trade Elijah Moore to the Cleveland Browns: MERGED

[Larz]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

I like your post here.  Moore not only quit on routes, but quit on the team when after consecutive wins, he complained about his role, and was sent home.  It must have been a hell of a complaint for him to get sent home, and miss a game, being a healthy scratch.

To me, NFL football is all about ability and character.  It doesn't matter how good you are, if you choke in a big situation, or not perform when the going gets rough.  I equate Moore to a guy like Geno Smith.  A lot of ability, but he will never be the quarterback of a team that goes to the Superbowl.  When the stakes are high, and the going gets rough, he will choke, just as I believe Moore will choke.  

It's hard to judge character, but if you pay attention, the Jets recently love to draft guys who were the captain of their football team in college.  Guys who are leaders, and who are loved by their coaches and teammates.  Warren, the 4th round pick this year, was a captain of his college football team, for coming back to college when the entire team expected him to opt for the draft.  Zach Wilson was a captain, but many dispute the reason for this, and their are some who feel he got the title for just being the QB of the team.

I question Becton's character, and hope so much that he proves me wrong this year, and has an enormous year.  Compare him with D'brickishaw Ferguson, who missed exactly one play for his entire NFL career.  Nobody could ever question D'Brick's toughness or solid character.  Yes, we can't argue about Becton's injuries, but we can argue that his being out of shape and weigh as much as a house might have contributed to his injury situation.  I don't remember D'Brick ever coming to camp out of shape and fat.

Moore needed to go, and I could care less how he does in Cleveland.  I'm glad he's gone.

 

There’s a huge difference between character and maturity. Becton came to camp out of shape he didn’t steal from a church lol. 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

If the Jets draft Jackson is he a former MVP with a $52 million dollar a year deal, while if the Ravens take Darnold, is he on his third team and a backup?

i mean it's a good question and one that can't really be answered

I used to ask the same about Ed Reed and Bryan Thomas. If Ed Reed showed up on day 1 and instead of fellow UMiami legend Ray Lewis telling you to get your act together, it's Herm Edwards' clown car show, would Ed Reed have been an All-Pro? It's the what-if game, and it has value.  

the best we can say is Lamar Jackson would have more value to the Jets than Sam Darnold (and 3 2nd round picks), however we slice it 

The crime of the Darnold draft was passing on Quenton Nelson at 6, probably the easiest player to scout (safest) for a decade. 

by the way Rodgers' MVP seasons came with the other LaFluer calling the plays not Nate Hackett. Zach truthers tell themselves that MLF was the problem with the Zach Wilson development but time will tell on all that 

I'm comfortable believing MLF is a better NFL coach than Nate Hackett. The Jets have to hope Rodgers calls his own plays. Which is exciting but not really building a system. 

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yeah, there was no surprise from the NFL world because Zach to the Jets was an open secret before New Year's. The Jets wanting Zach at 2 moved Zach's stock up to 2. This Jets team is usually leakproof in the draft (Taking Will McDonald, who saw that? Who predicted Sauce at 4? no one)

suddenly, everyone knows Zach's going 2 behind Trevor it's the worst-kept secret in sports? There's like 4 gold jacket prospects in that draft - (Sewell, Slater, Parsons, Chase), and the Jets are dead set on Zach Wilson? Internet geniuses are ripping his film apart.

Honestly I'm still not over it you don't get draft picks that high very often. We had to sit through a lot of losses to get to 2 overall. I'll go to my grave wondering how a college prospect that shoddy went that high. the fact that it happened for my favorite team is just Alanis Morissette-level irony

***

to put it another way 

If my neighbor/co-worker/fellow alumni/acquaintance comes to me and says:

"Hey, my nephew needs a job, can you look out for him?" 

Why do you do it? is it because you're getting paid cash on the barrelhead? Or because you want to be generous? Because you like the kid? Maybe because there's a feeling of indebtedness like it's a favor that can be traded for something else later (maybe sponsorship renewals)

Maybe we do it to feel like a big person? But people who know each other give each other jobs all the time - that's all this was Woody giving a buddy's friend a leg up. We could say it's Rich people doing rich people things, but humans at all levels give each other jobs for all sorts of reasons 

No I ain't gonna work for Maggie's Pa no more. 

Draftniks predict the draft, not the success of the picks. They are trailing and not leading indicators. The Jets interest in Zach propelled him to "#2 consensus best QB." The prognosticators are more concerned about being right on draft night, not three years later.

[whodeawhodat]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Draftniks predict the draft, not the success of the picks. They are trailing and not leading indicators. The Jets interest in Zach propelled him to "#2 consensus best QB." The prognosticators are more concerned about being right on draft night, not three years later.

I will never look at chris simms the same...

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

I will never look at chris simms the same...

Well that dude is not really a drafnik, He holds himself as a QB evaluator/analyst. And boy, does he stick to his position no matter what evidence piles up against him  

[batman10023]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

What you don't understand about the super rich is they are cheaper and more ruthless than anyone else

that's how they got that way 

there's no limit to what they'll do for a dollar

I don't want to get into the weeds on David Neeleman but when that dude dies the obit will read Jet Blue founder

he sold his shares to start another airline and stocked the board with his lackeys (who are also investors in that other airline) 

if there was no connection between JetBlue and Zach they wouldn't have chartered a plane from Utah for his first game

https://www.deseret.com/2021/7/10/22571527/jetblue-david-neeleman-flying-fans-to-zach-wilson-new-york-jets-opener-vs-carolina-panthers

i am pretty sure i have met more billionaires than you have and your assumptions are not necessarily true.  It's a huge generalization.  however, it does gel with your general world view and comments.   but my sample size admittedly is not alot, maybe you know more than me in this topic.

David Neeleman charged people to go on that plane.  lol.

[batman10023]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets benefit by keeping a major sponsor happy

JetBlue doesn't have to advertise with the Jets. There's a million ways to spend marketing dollars. That deal has to be renewed periodically maybe every year.  

They could very easily advertise with another entertainment company. 

it's free money. The Jets exist to make a profit and winning doesn't help the bottom line anymore than losing. Those Aaron Rodgers jerseys they are selling? Unless it happens at the Stadium or the NYJ Store, every team gets the same cut. Just like how the Jets got a cut of every Tom Brady Jersey sold. 

 

all that aside the reason why my brain moves to conspiracy theory/nepotism is primarily because Zach was such a sh*t prospect. And his going to the Jets happened so early in the process. Late December DJ had Zach to the Jets. Why? No signature wins. Then Justin Fields plays his ass off in the CFB playoffs with a broken rib, and Zach rises on the board? Why? 

No workouts (he's hurt at the time), nothing special about this prospects size/speed wise in fact he's smallish and fragile. He was mocked to the Jets well before his pro day. Which wasn't that special either.  

When this whole thing went down it was very suspicious how everyone in the world knew the Jets were taking Zach at 2. Before the CFB playoffs even happened. The guy faced no real pressure, played behind 25 year old linemen in the Mountain West and he's going 2? It makes no sense. 

I'm not going to say the Advertising is the thing but it helps. Woody being friends with Neeleman helps. The politics of this person matching the politics of the owner helps. Whatever happened with Zach it came from the top. Franchise QB is an Owner level decision. 

I can't get over how a guy like JD who is smart enough to draft OROY and DROY in the same draft is also dumb enough to biff the highest Jets draft pick since Keyshawn

I'd rather believe Woody made him do it 

but it's entirely possible he's just a moron. 

so "JET"Blue isn't going to throw some of their marketing dollars (not even 1% however) to their hometown team that happens to have the Jets in the name.

you really can't be this nuts.  

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Almost everything you're saying about Moore is true, except for the separation stuff - there were stats saying he was among the most open wideouts in football despite not getting targets. 

 

Zach Wilson originally voted captain by the locker room, the coaches gave him that patch after the fact. it's actually kind of understandable as the other BYU captains were much older.

But let's talk about football character, shall we? What is the character of a QB who says after the Pats loss he's not accountable for his mistakes to the defense? Shocking. 

Then to top it all off his final comments of the year making the next QB's life "a living hell" 

it's become a joke around here (maybe because it's so absurd)  but there's an obvious trend here 

Elijah Moore may or may not have been a locker-room cancer

Zach Wilson is the real locker-room cancer, and he's still in the building 

 

can you share where you found the stat on Moore being open among the most.

to me whenever i watched him it felt like he half heartedly ran his routes.  But I have nothing to go on to make that point.

If Zach isn't a good team player this year he's gone at the end of the season.

[greenwichjetfan]

First time I'm clicking in this thread, and I have no idea what is going on. The thread title is about a guy who barely mattered to us when he was here and won't even be a blip in our history now that he's gone. The page and half that I read in the thread has everything from conspiracy theories to class struggles to sponsorships; and a bunch about the worst QB selection this team has ever made. My head is spinning. I'll see my way out.

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

First time I'm clicking in this thread, and I have no idea what is going on. The thread title is about a guy who barely mattered to us when he was here and won't even be a blip in our history now that he's gone. The page and half that I read in the thread has everything from conspiracy theories to class struggles to sponsorships; and a bunch about the worst QB selection this team has ever made. My head is spinning. I'll see my way out.

I think I missed the Hackenberg stuff. What page? 

[thebuzzardman]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

What you don't understand about the super rich is they are cheaper and more ruthless than anyone else

that's how they got that way 

there's no limit to what they'll do for a dollar

I don't want to get into the weeds on David Neeleman but when that dude dies the obit will read Jet Blue founder

he sold his shares to start another airline and stocked the board with his lackeys (who are also investors in that other airline) 

if there was no connection between JetBlue and Zach they wouldn't have chartered a plane from Utah for his first game

https://www.deseret.com/2021/7/10/22571527/jetblue-david-neeleman-flying-fans-to-zach-wilson-new-york-jets-opener-vs-carolina-panthers

Twenty dollars is twenty dollars

[greenwichjetfan]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think I missed the Hackenberg stuff. What page? 

I expected this from 80.

Hack was bad. Zach was worse. 2nd round vs 2nd overall, and many of us called zach a can’t-hit prospect for months leading up to the draft.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I expected this from 80.

Hack was bad. Zach was worse. 2nd round vs 2nd overall, and many of us called zach a can’t-hit prospect for months leading up to the draft.

As long as you expected it. . .

[CTJetsFan]

34 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

First time I'm clicking in this thread, and I have no idea what is going on. The thread title is about a guy who barely mattered to us when he was here and won't even be a blip in our history now that he's gone. The page and half that I read in the thread has everything from conspiracy theories to class struggles to sponsorships; and a bunch about the worst QB selection this team has ever made. My head is spinning. I'll see my way out.

Lol. Was just about to post the same thing. Couldn't figure out how/why this was 24 pages deep.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

so "JET"Blue isn't going to throw some of their marketing dollars (not even 1% however) to their hometown team that happens to have the Jets in the name.

you really can't be this nuts.  

It's crazy, but some strange ******* things happen in NYC sports marketing.  I was there when the Knicks were so reliant on ad revenue from the Wiz that it made more sense to buy the floundering bankrupt company as it went out of business and let it slowly rot into the ground than to lose the advertising dollars. 

[BurntDice]

Opened the thread after not really paying attention to much jets news the past few months wondering if something happened with Moore. 
 

nah just the same people bitching about Zach and his rich uncle. 
 

can’t wait till the dead time of the off season is over 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

JET BLUE!!!!!!

[whodeawhodat]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

Well that dude is not really a drafnik, He holds himself as a QB evaluator/analyst. And boy, does he stick to his position no matter what evidence piles up against him  

He was 3 for 3 the previous 3 drafts(maybe 5) on who the best QB in the draft was, until he picked zach...

[Dunnie]

He was 3 for 3 the previous 3 drafts(maybe 5) on who the best QB in the draft was, until he picked zach...

Zach might still pan out... We don't really know yet

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[whodeawhodat]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Zach might still pan out... We don't really know yet

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

hes has been showing tendencies of not working out but yes, it is not over

[jgb]

57 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

He was 3 for 3 the previous 3 drafts(maybe 5) on who the best QB in the draft was, until he picked zach...

You'd think his ego could afford one miss. But he started to believe his own hype.

[jgb]

58 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Zach might still pan out... We don't really know yet

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Metaphysically, we don't really know anything. But we sure can approximate the odds and they ain't looking good for Zachery.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Zach might still pan out... We don't really know yet

We kinda do.

[Hal N of Provo]

21 hours ago, bitonti said:

i mean it's a good question and one that can't really be answered

I used to ask the same about Ed Reed and Bryan Thomas. If Ed Reed showed up on day 1 and instead of fellow UMiami legend Ray Lewis telling you to get your act together, it's Herm Edwards' clown car show, would Ed Reed have been an All-Pro? It's the what-if game, and it has value.  

the best we can say is Lamar Jackson would have more value to the Jets than Sam Darnold (and 3 2nd round picks), however we slice it 

The crime of the Darnold draft was passing on Quenton Nelson at 6, probably the easiest player to scout (safest) for a decade. 

by the way Rodgers' MVP seasons came with the other LaFluer calling the plays not Nate Hackett. Zach truthers tell themselves that MLF was the problem with the Zach Wilson development but time will tell on all that 

I'm comfortable believing MLF is a better NFL coach than Nate Hackett. The Jets have to hope Rodgers calls his own plays. Which is exciting but not really building a system. 

What does MiLFs brother have to do with MiLF? If buying a playbook was all it was about everyone would have a good system.  

21 hours ago, jgb said:

Draftniks predict the draft, not the success of the picks. They are trailing and not leading indicators. The Jets interest in Zach propelled him to "#2 consensus best QB." The prognosticators are more concerned about being right on draft night, not three years later.

San Fran was HEAVILY linked to Zach half way through his last season.   BYU gossip said that was where he was going mid 1st at that time - but there were also rumors starting he was shooting up.  

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

What does MiLFs brother have to do with MiLF? If buying a playbook was all it was about everyone would have a good system.  

San Fran was HEAVILY linked to Zach half way through his last season.   BYU gossip said that was where he was going mid 1st at that time - but there were also rumors starting he was shooting up.  

San Fran sure dodged a bullet, huh? Not that Lance has shown anything but if they had traded up for Zach?

[Saul Goodman]

I’m still disappointed that it didn’t work out with Elijah here. He’s a talented player, I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a really good season with Cleveland. 

[sackdance]

20 hours ago, batman10023 said:

can you share where you found the stat on Moore being open among the most.

to me whenever i watched him it felt like he half heartedly ran his routes.  But I have nothing to go on to make that point.

If Zach isn't a good team player this year he's gone at the end of the season.

To me Garrett Wilson's play proved that Elijah Moore was not a special talent.

 

Shortly after that Elijah Moore proved he's a divisive diva (without the onfield upside).  

[bitonti]

20 hours ago, batman10023 said:

can you share where you found the stat on Moore being open among the most.

to me whenever i watched him it felt like he half heartedly ran his routes.  But I have nothing to go on to make that point.

If Zach isn't a good team player this year he's gone at the end of the season.

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90365/is-jets-elijah-moore-the-nfls-most-ignored-wide-receiver

Quote

He is getting open -- a lot. According to a new ESPN metric that tracks separation on untargeted routes, Moore's "open" score is tops on the Jets and tied for 15th in the NFL. His production slippage could be tied to the fact that he's running more vertical routes than he did as a rookie, as his average target has gone from 11.9 yards to 14.3. Clearly, quarterback Joe Flacco wasn't able to capitalize.

Moore's "superpower," to use an expression from the Jets' coaches, is his ability to separate quickly and make plays in space. At 5-foot-10, he's not the quintessential deep threat. Offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur believes Moore can do it all, explaining that he was used on deep routes last week because the Cincinnati Bengals packed the middle and "begged" them to throw outside.

LaFleur said it's a "fun challenge" to satisfy everyone in a talented receiving corps. As for Moore, LaFleur said, "His time will come."

 

[batman10023]

40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90365/is-jets-elijah-moore-the-nfls-most-ignored-wide-receiver

 

thanks very much

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/90365/is-jets-elijah-moore-the-nfls-most-ignored-wide-receiver

 

He was quitting on routes where wasn't the primary.  Hard to trust a guy that does that and it led to some weird turnovers.  

That being said I really thought he was going to work out and I would've tried to convince him to stay with Rodgers here.  

You can see why he wanted out though, he'd be WR 4 or 5 now.  The guy would be a pouting distraction all season. 

[bitonti]

15 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

He was quitting on routes where wasn't the primary.  Hard to trust a guy that does that and it led to some weird turnovers.  

 

that's a fun story but I'm not sure it really happened 

it sounds like something people said about Santonio Holmes or Santana Moss (which also wasn't true at the time

that's the comp btw  - moore is going to be santana moss for another 5-7 years 

[JohnnyLV]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:11 AM, bitonti said:

i mean it's a good question and one that can't really be answered

I used to ask the same about Ed Reed and Bryan Thomas. If Ed Reed showed up on day 1 and instead of fellow UMiami legend Ray Lewis telling you to get your act together, it's Herm Edwards' clown car show, would Ed Reed have been an All-Pro? It's the what-if game, and it has value.  

the best we can say is Lamar Jackson would have more value to the Jets than Sam Darnold (and 3 2nd round picks), however we slice it 

The crime of the Darnold draft was passing on Quenton Nelson at 6, probably the easiest player to scout (safest) for a decade. 

by the way Rodgers' MVP seasons came with the other LaFluer calling the plays not Nate Hackett. Zach truthers tell themselves that MLF was the problem with the Zach Wilson development but time will tell on all that 

I'm comfortable believing MLF is a better NFL coach than Nate Hackett. The Jets have to hope Rodgers calls his own plays. Which is exciting but not really building a system. 

MLF is the worst OC the Jets have ever had

I would be interested in hearing objective things he did well.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, JohnnyLV said:

MLF is the worst OC the Jets have ever had

I would be interested in hearing objective things he did well.

He's worse than Schittenheimer because he couldn't make Zach Wilson and Joe Flacco look good?

[Hex]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:11 AM, bitonti said:

by the way Rodgers' MVP seasons came with the other LaFluer calling the plays not Nate Hackett. Zach truthers tell themselves that MLF was the problem with the Zach Wilson development but time will tell on all that

An OC does much more than call plays, but that was a primary criticism we had of MLF. 
So yea I guess time will tell

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

MLF is the worst OC the Jets have ever had

I would be interested in hearing objective things he did well.

Managed to have the offense look competent when any QB not named Zach Wilson was under center?