NY Jets trade Elijah Moore to the Cleveland Browns: MERGED

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

What connection does Woody have to Buddy Ryan?

Buddy Ryan was the DC of the 1968 Jets and held the Colts to 7 points in SB 3

Woody didn't own the team at the time but Buddy's obviously a major part of Jets lore. Rex was in the camp clubhouse those years, adjacent to the only ring in team history

 

[dbatesman]

Just now, bitonti said:

Buddy Ryan was the DC of the 1968 Jets and held the Colts to 7 points in SB 3

Woody didn't own the team at the time but Buddy's obviously a major part of Jets lore. Rex was in the camp clubhouse those years, adjacent to the only ring in team history

 

I'm aware of all that. I'm asking what connection Woody has to him. Seems unlikely that the guy is both a pencilneck dork who hires failsons because their dads buy space on the Jumbotron, and also a committed fanboy doing his part to uphold the glory of Jets lore. If you want to do the tinfoil hat thing with Wilson over Fields, that's fine; the connections are there and Douglas settled on him so early, and with such conviction, that it's always felt a little weird. But Rex was eminently qualified for the job. The Buddy connection didn't hurt, and Rex himself trumpeted it at the time, but I don't think they took his resume off the pile because his dad helped the Jets win a title while Woody was singing in the glee club at Arizona State.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

I'm aware of all that. I'm asking what connection Woody has to him. Seems unlikely that the guy is both a pencilneck dork who hires failsons because their dads buy space on the Jumbotron, and also a committed fanboy doing his part to uphold the glory of Jets lore. If you want to do the tinfoil hat thing with Wilson over Fields, that's fine; the connections are there and Douglas settled on him so early, and with such conviction, that it's always felt a little weird. But Rex was eminently qualified for the job. The Buddy connection didn't hurt, and Rex himself trumpeted it at the time, but I don't think they took his resume off the pile because his dad helped the Jets win a title while Woody was singing in the glee club at Arizona State.

Why even entertain this nonsense with reason? 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I'm aware of all that. I'm asking what connection Woody has to him. Seems unlikely that the guy is both a pencilneck dork who hires failsons because their dads buy space on the Jumbotron, and also a committed fanboy doing his part to uphold the glory of Jets lore. If you want to do the tinfoil hat thing with Wilson over Fields, that's fine; the connections are there and Douglas settled on him so early, and with such conviction, that it's always felt a little weird. But Rex was eminently qualified for the job. The Buddy connection didn't hurt, and Rex himself trumpeted it at the time, but I don't think they took his resume off the pile because his dad helped the Jets win a title while Woody was singing in the glee club at Arizona State.

Are you aware of how Woody made his fortune? He's the original failson 

Fast forward a few decades God Willing we're all still here complaining about Brick 

Yes he favors people with family connections just like every other person in business in the capitalist world 

Rex was qualified for the job yes and there's a case to be made he's the best Jets coach in the modern era

but if it wasn't for Buddy Ryan, Rex, rob and their fart sniffing shenanigans wouldn't be in the league at all. 

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why even entertain this nonsense with reason? 

He sucks me in every time. It's a personal failing.

[Sperm Edwards]

44 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

He sucks me in every time. It's a personal failing.

Anyway it was your turn in the barrel.

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I’ve been where bit is. Sometimes we try to find rational reasons for bad outcomes, and ironically this can push ourselves into irrationality. We saw this with Darnold — it can’t just be that he’s a bad NFL QB — it must be his weapons, his coaches, the mono, the vicious NY media, or even our own impatience as Jets fans.

But sometimes the answer is simple although not satisfying: there is no JetBlue conspiracy — the Jets just made yet another colossally stupid decision in a long line of them.

your examples of Darnold are are rational explanations.

the Jetblue is beyond irrational - but the cherry on top is that he then proceeds to undercut his point by saying JD is going to get fired for picking Zach.

 

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Either there's a conspiracy or jd made the worst draft pick in Jets history on his own 

Pick your poison 

that's not how it works.  you can't pick both sides which you consistently are doing.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why even entertain this nonsense with reason? 

 

52 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

He sucks me in every time. It's a personal failing.

 

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Anyway it was your turn in the barrel.

 

Any time you guys are tempted to engage @bitonti, always remember that he watched 80 for Brady by choice.

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

I don't know if conspiracy is the right word 

It's a fact that there's a decade long multi million dollar marketing relationship between the Jets and jetblue 

It's more like nepotism. Like how they hired Paul Hackett son and gino Marchetti grandson to be coaches. The Lefleur brothers. The league is ripe with these nepotism relationships 

$2MM a year (at BEST) marketing agreement versus a $5 Billion business.

it's not even a 1 BP rounding error.

and the cherry on top is that if JetBlue wasn't the sponsor, American Airlines would give them close to $2MM.  So it's the incremental impact.

can you eat Cherries?

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

like I said it's not conspiracy it's nepotism 

Rex Ryan is the son of Buddy Ryan, etc

Woody already said in interviews that Wilson's Uncle is a friend of the family - these are billionaires who run in the same circles 

If Justin Fields' uncle founded Met Life Insurance, The Jets would have had alot to think about that draft

hey it's either believe that or believe JD is the worst QB scouting GM in the business 

what's it gonna be? 

Lately I tend to believe JD isn't that dumb that he would draft Zach without being ordered to do it 

but then again he's had 5 years to build the offensive line and he can't do that right either 

20-46 that's the quality of GM Joe Douglas

exactly 

see my signature for more 

 

 

google will allow you to find out that Wilson's uncle isn't a billionaire - not even close.

 

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

your examples of Darnold are are rational explanations.

the Jetblue is beyond irrational - but the cherry on top is that he then proceeds to undercut his point by saying JD is going to get fired for picking Zach.

 

The irrational part of the Darnold theories that anyone who just thought he was a bad player were treated like they were insane or wanted the Jets to fail 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

...while Woody was singing in the glee club at Arizona State.

[Bleedin Green]

I checked in to see how this thread was even still going on months later and just........ wow.

[bicketybam]

Moore is going to have a monster season in Cleveland.  Wish it could have worked out here but Joe deemed it unrepairable.
Not taking JSN to replace him was an epic fail.  It was a layup and Joe blew it.
Joe pandered to Rodgers and chose Cobb over JSN.  That will be an all time mistake.

There is a less than 0% chance Moore has a monster season in Cleveland. Guy is a camp warrior. Once you throw pads on him he's pedestrian at best.

[dbatesman]

45 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

lmao

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

the Jetblue is beyond irrational - but the cherry on top is that he then proceeds to undercut his point by saying JD is going to get fired for picking Zach.

 

well Woody's not going to fire himself, is he? 

 

"I probably know more about you than I do my own kids"

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

Moore quit on routes.  Inexcusable, notwithstanding his QB was horrific.  He's just a bad character/bad motivation kind of guy.  We got less trading him away than it cost to draft him, but I think they were right as far as locker room disturbance and general bad vibes from his me-first attitude.  Unfortunate and draft capital costly, but trading him away was absolutely the right decision for this team.

yes good move for sure. ANd you are right he did quit on routes etc. even with qb being so bad, a professional out there doesnt just quit. Glad to punt on him. also glad we got rid of our mini wrs , seriously glad we have taller guys

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

well Woody's not going to fire himself, is he? 

 

"I probably know more about you than I do my own kids"

 

what do you expect him to say - look, our kicker made a tackle and now we are stuck with you or our mistake from a couple of years ago.

you are foolish to think that a multi billion dollar organization is going to make a pick for a few hundred K $$.  

either way, pick a lane.  can't have it both ways.

 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

either way, pick a lane.  can't have it both ways.

That kind of misery has no lane restrictions.  

[Larz]

Did David Neeleman sell JetBlue?

NEW YORK — David Neeleman, who was removed from his post as JetBlue chief executive by the company's board last month, sold 2.5 million JetBlue shares, or 23.2 percent of his holdings, the first time the airline's founder and chairman has ever sold company stock.

2007

 

so like woody has nothing to do with J&J, Zach’s uncle sold jetblue.  
 

the JetBlue partnership with the jets happened in 2009. 
 

Wait, what am I doing, conspiracy? 😂

[bitonti]

19 hours ago, batman10023 said:

what do you expect him to say - look, our kicker made a tackle and now we are stuck with you or our mistake from a couple of years ago.

you are foolish to think that a multi billion dollar organization is going to make a pick for a few hundred K $$.  

either way, pick a lane.  can't have it both ways.

What you don't understand about the super rich is they are cheaper and more ruthless than anyone else

that's how they got that way 

there's no limit to what they'll do for a dollar

17 hours ago, Larz said:

Did David Neeleman sell JetBlue?

NEW YORK — David Neeleman, who was removed from his post as JetBlue chief executive by the company's board last month, sold 2.5 million JetBlue shares, or 23.2 percent of his holdings, the first time the airline's founder and chairman has ever sold company stock.

2007

 

so like woody has nothing to do with J&J, Zach’s uncle sold jetblue.  
 

the JetBlue partnership with the jets happened in 2009. 
 

Wait, what am I doing, conspiracy? 😂

I don't want to get into the weeds on David Neeleman but when that dude dies the obit will read Jet Blue founder

he sold his shares to start another airline and stocked the board with his lackeys (who are also investors in that other airline) 

if there was no connection between JetBlue and Zach they wouldn't have chartered a plane from Utah for his first game

https://www.deseret.com/2021/7/10/22571527/jetblue-david-neeleman-flying-fans-to-zach-wilson-new-york-jets-opener-vs-carolina-panthers

[Larz]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

What you don't understand about the super rich is they are cheaper and more ruthless than anyone else

that's how they got that way 

there's no limit to what they'll do for a dollar

I don't want to get into the weeds on David Neeleman but when that dude dies the obit will read Jet Blue founder

he sold his shares to start another airline and stocked the board with his lackeys (who are also investors in that other airline) 

if there was no connection between JetBlue and Zach they wouldn't have chartered a plane from Utah for his first game

https://www.deseret.com/2021/7/10/22571527/jetblue-david-neeleman-flying-fans-to-zach-wilson-new-york-jets-opener-vs-carolina-panthers

I saw that. I just don’t see the benefit to either side as the sponsorship deal was already in place. How does JetBlue do better on their bottom line? How do the Jets benefit? Follow the money, right? What money? 
 

 

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

I saw that. I just don’t see the benefit to either side as the sponsorship deal was already in place. How does JetBlue do better on their bottom line? How do the Jets benefit? Follow the money, right? What money? 
 

 

 

Occum’s Razor — Jets just blew the pick. Not like that would be a unique occurrence in our history.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

I saw that. I just don’t see the benefit to either side as the sponsorship deal was already in place. How does JetBlue do better on their bottom line? How do the Jets benefit? Follow the money, right? What money? 
 

The Jets benefit by keeping a major sponsor happy

JetBlue doesn't have to advertise with the Jets. There's a million ways to spend marketing dollars. That deal has to be renewed periodically maybe every year.  

They could very easily advertise with another entertainment company. 

it's free money. The Jets exist to make a profit and winning doesn't help the bottom line anymore than losing. Those Aaron Rodgers jerseys they are selling? Unless it happens at the Stadium or the NYJ Store, every team gets the same cut. Just like how the Jets got a cut of every Tom Brady Jersey sold. 

 

all that aside the reason why my brain moves to conspiracy theory/nepotism is primarily because Zach was such a sh*t prospect. And his going to the Jets happened so early in the process. Late December DJ had Zach to the Jets. Why? No signature wins. Then Justin Fields plays his ass off in the CFB playoffs with a broken rib, and Zach rises on the board? Why? 

No workouts (he's hurt at the time), nothing special about this prospects size/speed wise in fact he's smallish and fragile. He was mocked to the Jets well before his pro day. Which wasn't that special either.  

When this whole thing went down it was very suspicious how everyone in the world knew the Jets were taking Zach at 2. Before the CFB playoffs even happened. The guy faced no real pressure, played behind 25 year old linemen in the Mountain West and he's going 2? It makes no sense. 

I'm not going to say the Advertising is the thing but it helps. Woody being friends with Neeleman helps. The politics of this person matching the politics of the owner helps. Whatever happened with Zach it came from the top. Franchise QB is an Owner level decision. 

I can't get over how a guy like JD who is smart enough to draft OROY and DROY in the same draft is also dumb enough to biff the highest Jets draft pick since Keyshawn

I'd rather believe Woody made him do it 

but it's entirely possible he's just a moron. 

[Larz]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets benefit by keeping a major sponsor happy

JetBlue doesn't have to advertise with the Jets. There's a million ways to spend marketing dollars. That deal has to be renewed periodically maybe every year.  

They could very easily advertise with another entertainment company. 

it's free money. The Jets exist to make a profit and winning doesn't help the bottom line anymore than losing. Those Aaron Rodgers jerseys they are selling? Unless it happens at the Stadium or the NYJ Store, every team gets the same cut. Just like how the Jets got a cut of every Tom Brady Jersey sold. 

 

all that aside the reason why my brain moves to conspiracy theory/nepotism is primarily because Zach was such a sh*t prospect. And his going to the Jets happened so early in the process. Late December DJ had Zach to the Jets. Why? No signature wins. Then Justin Fields plays his ass off in the CFB playoffs with a broken rib, and Zach rises on the board? Why? 

No workouts (he's hurt at the time), nothing special about this prospects size/speed wise in fact he's smallish and fragile. He was mocked to the Jets well before his pro day. Which wasn't that special either.  

When this whole thing went down it was very suspicious how everyone in the world knew the Jets were taking Zach at 2. Before the CFB playoffs even happened. The guy faced no real pressure, played behind 25 year old linemen in the Mountain West and he's going 2? It makes no sense. 

I'm not going to say the Advertising is the thing but it helps. Woody being friends with Neeleman helps. The politics of this person matching the politics of the owner helps. Whatever happened with Zach it came from the top. Franchise QB is an Owner level decision. 

I can't get over how a guy like JD who is smart enough to draft OROY and DROY in the same draft is also dumb enough to biff the highest Jets draft pick since Keyshawn

I'd rather believe Woody made him do it 

but it's entirely possible he's just a moron. 

The sponsor wants exposure to a market. They get that regardless of who is on the team.  There was very little surprise, disappointment, disagreement from the “NFL world “ when the jets picked Zach. He should have sat for a year and had a veteran OC.  Still might suck, but the pick wasn’t as terrible as the development 

[#27TheDominator]

How many ******* threads are we going to have on class struggles?  Can't we just have a thread on a midget wide receiver with a bad attitude?  What's next?   Russian literature?  I thought the math nerds were bad.

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

How many ******* threads are we going to have on class struggles?  Can't we just have a thread on a midget wide receiver with a bad attitude?  What's next?   Russian literature?  I thought the math nerds were bad.

[Alka]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:36 AM, Dcat said:

Moore quit on routes.  Inexcusable, notwithstanding his QB was horrific.  He's just a bad character/bad motivation kind of guy.  We got less trading him away than it cost to draft him, but I think they were right as far as locker room disturbance and general bad vibes from his me-first attitude.  Unfortunate and draft capital costly, but trading him away was absolutely the right decision for this team.

I like your post here.  Moore not only quit on routes, but quit on the team when after consecutive wins, he complained about his role, and was sent home.  It must have been a hell of a complaint for him to get sent home, and miss a game, being a healthy scratch.

To me, NFL football is all about ability and character.  It doesn't matter how good you are, if you choke in a big situation, or not perform when the going gets rough.  I equate Moore to a guy like Geno Smith.  A lot of ability, but he will never be the quarterback of a team that goes to the Superbowl.  When the stakes are high, and the going gets rough, he will choke, just as I believe Moore will choke.  

It's hard to judge character, but if you pay attention, the Jets recently love to draft guys who were the captain of their football team in college.  Guys who are leaders, and who are loved by their coaches and teammates.  Warren, the 4th round pick this year, was a captain of his college football team, for coming back to college when the entire team expected him to opt for the draft.  Zach Wilson was a captain, but many dispute the reason for this, and their are some who feel he got the title for just being the QB of the team.

I question Becton's character, and hope so much that he proves me wrong this year, and has an enormous year.  Compare him with D'brickishaw Ferguson, who missed exactly one play for his entire NFL career.  Nobody could ever question D'Brick's toughness or solid character.  Yes, we can't argue about Becton's injuries, but we can argue that his being out of shape and weigh as much as a house might have contributed to his injury situation.  I don't remember D'Brick ever coming to camp out of shape and fat.

Moore needed to go, and I could care less how he does in Cleveland.  I'm glad he's gone.

 

[Fantasy Island]

I like turtles.

[bitonti]

48 minutes ago, Larz said:

The sponsor wants exposure to a market. They get that regardless of who is on the team.  There was very little surprise, disappointment, disagreement from the “NFL world “ when the jets picked Zach. He should have sat for a year and had a veteran OC.  Still might suck, but the pick wasn’t as terrible as the development 

yeah, there was no surprise from the NFL world because Zach to the Jets was an open secret before New Year's. The Jets wanting Zach at 2 moved Zach's stock up to 2. This Jets team is usually leakproof in the draft (Taking Will McDonald, who saw that? Who predicted Sauce at 4? no one)

suddenly, everyone knows Zach's going 2 behind Trevor it's the worst-kept secret in sports? There's like 4 gold jacket prospects in that draft - (Sewell, Slater, Parsons, Chase), and the Jets are dead set on Zach Wilson? Internet geniuses are ripping his film apart.

Honestly I'm still not over it you don't get draft picks that high very often. We had to sit through a lot of losses to get to 2 overall. I'll go to my grave wondering how a college prospect that shoddy went that high. the fact that it happened for my favorite team is just Alanis Morissette-level irony

***

to put it another way 

If my neighbor/co-worker/fellow alumni/acquaintance comes to me and says:

"Hey, my nephew needs a job, can you look out for him?" 

Why do you do it? is it because you're getting paid cash on the barrelhead? Or because you want to be generous? Because you like the kid? Maybe because there's a feeling of indebtedness like it's a favor that can be traded for something else later (maybe sponsorship renewals)

Maybe we do it to feel like a big person? But people who know each other give each other jobs all the time - that's all this was Woody giving a buddy's friend a leg up. We could say it's Rich people doing rich people things, but humans at all levels give each other jobs for all sorts of reasons 

No I ain't gonna work for Maggie's Pa no more. 

[Larz]

Just now, bitonti said:

yeah, there was no surprise from the NFL world because Zach to the Jets was an open secret before New Year's. The Jets wanting Zach at 2 moved Zach's stock up to 2. This Jets team is usually leakproof in the draft (Taking Will McDonald, who saw that? Who predicted Sauce at 4? no one)

suddenly, everyone knows Zach's going 2 behind Trevor it's the worst-kept secret in sports? There's like 4 gold jacket prospects in that draft - (Sewell, Slater, Parsons, Chase), and the Jets are dead set on Zach Wilson? Internet geniuses are ripping his film apart.

Honestly I'm still not over it you don't get draft picks that high very often. We had to sit through a lot of losses to get to 2 overall. I'll go to my grave wondering how a college prospect that shoddy went that high. the fact that it happened for my favorite team is just Alanis Morissette-level irony

***

to put it another way 

If my neighbor/co-worker/fellow alumni/acquaintance comes to me and says:

"Hey, my nephew needs a job, can you look out for him?" 

Why do you do it? is it because you're getting paid cash on the barrelhead? Or because you want to be generous? Because you like the kid? Maybe because there's a feeling of indebtedness like it's a favor that can be traded for something else later (maybe sponsorship renewals)

Maybe we do it to feel like a big person? But people who know each other give each other jobs all the time - that's all this was Woody giving a buddy's friend a leg up. We could say it's Rich people doing rich people things, but humans at all levels give each other jobs for all sorts of reasons 

No I ain't gonna work for Maggie's Pa no more. 

When JD was on 1JD this year on the clock in the draft, he asked his director of college scouting who he had ranked. He considered the information and made a decision.  No phone calls from men in black, just a guy doing his job.  There are probably 50 people involved in this.  
He set everything up that year to be the take a QB year. No other position was going to be considered. 

The GM obviously makes the decision and lives with the results but the thing is you know this. Above 95% of the people here. So are you like bored and trolling? 

[bitonti]

41 minutes ago, Alka said:

To me, NFL football is all about ability and character. 

It's hard to judge character, but if you pay attention, the Jets recently love to draft guys who were the captain of their football team in college. 

Zach Wilson was a captain, but many dispute the reason for this, and their are some who feel he got the title for just being the QB of the team.

 

Almost everything you're saying about Moore is true, except for the separation stuff - there were stats saying he was among the most open wideouts in football despite not getting targets. 

 

Zach Wilson originally voted captain by the locker room, the coaches gave him that patch after the fact. it's actually kind of understandable as the other BYU captains were much older.

But let's talk about football character, shall we? What is the character of a QB who says after the Pats loss he's not accountable for his mistakes to the defense? Shocking. 

Then to top it all off his final comments of the year making the next QB's life "a living hell" 

it's become a joke around here (maybe because it's so absurd)  but there's an obvious trend here 

Elijah Moore may or may not have been a locker-room cancer

Zach Wilson is the real locker-room cancer, and he's still in the building 

 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

When JD was on 1JD this year on the clock in the draft, he asked his director of college scouting who he had ranked. He considered the information and made a decision.  No phone calls from men in black, just a guy doing his job.  There are probably 50 people involved in this.  
He set everything up that year to be the take a QB year. No other position was going to be considered. 

The GM obviously makes the decision and lives with the results but the thing is you know this. Above 95% of the people here. So are you like bored and trolling? 

Like i said there's two options: 

Either Zach Wilson at 2 is the worst example of circular group think run amuck we've ever lived through. And legitimately one of the worst draft picks in Jets franchise history, which is saying alot.   

or the usually smart GM works for the Owner, and does what he's told. JD's job is not really to win games it's to make Woody and Chris happy.   

saying he had to take a QB was revisionist - JD didn't HAVE to take a QB. The Coaches weren't begging for one.  

[Larz]

Just now, bitonti said:

Like i said there's two options: 

Either Zach Wilson at 2 is the worst example of circular group think run amuck we've ever lived through. And legitimately one of the worst draft picks in Jets franchise history, which is saying alot.   

or the usually smart GM works for the Owner, and does what he's told. JD's job is not really to win games it's to make Woody and Chris happy.   

saying he had to take a QB was revisionist - JD didn't HAVE to take a QB. The Coaches weren't begging for one.  

I didn’t say he had to, he set it up that way.  
There is a third option. The pick was iffy because of the level of competition, ignored red flags on performance under pressure, and the plan to marry him to Saleh’s BFF’s younger brother was really dumb and when the wheels started to fall off Saleh played the only card he knows, tough love, and it blew up.  
 

turning in a draft card is 30% of the puzzle. How the player is developed is 70%. 
 

If the Jets draft Jackson is he a former MVP with a $52 million dollar a year deal, while if the Ravens take Darnold, is he on his third team and a backup?