Wilson's Game Film

[Dunnie]

5 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Just found this of all his throws ....

 

Thanks for this .. good to see again ... forgot how far this kid has come in terms of poise in the pocket. 

TAKEAWAYS :

1. Ball placement needs work still as was to be expected. 

2. I think the terrible interception may have been a result of trying to get cute attempting a no-look pass. 

3. The coaching staff has to open up the playbook .. the dink and dunk force feeding seems to be paying off ... he has much better touch on the short stuff. However, he needs to be able to keep the defense honest and trust that Garett or Mecole will win 1 on 1s on the outside.

 

Overall .. exciting to see progress encapsulated like this.

[LSJF]

11 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Just found this of all his throws ,a little  jumpy at first but there are some different angles on plays that show more of what Zack was dealing with. The falling down throw after getting tripped by AVT that he makes to Lazard at the 2:37 mark is incredible.  And being able to pause and play his mad backwards scramble I can better understand what he had no time to avoid and then his ability to do what he had to in not getting sacked . 3 defenders getting free and suddenly in his face...

For those who hate Zack, with the person who made this is probably one,  you get to see all his mistakes repeated a few times as well as him drilled in slow motion. 

 

Night and day from last year...Stillll has a way to go...however he has weapons that he could hit that will get xtra yards n move the chains...it's the redzone improvement needed can we get td's not just FG's 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I hate Zach and even I don't  think he was terrible. He definitely  hasn't  shaken some of the old bad habits but I thought he handled more than 70% of his snaps favorably.  

That’s the take, right there.

I want to assume that we’re going to get schizophrenic Zach going forward: one okay game then two head scratchers. But why does it have to be that way?

ZW looked okay in the pre-season. He and his coaches say he is much more relaxed. He has Rodgers teaching him how to play the position. Hackett is better than that kid OC that was here. Dallas has a great D, so it seems, but Buffalo is no slouch on defense, and Zach did okay. Zach is coming into a game where the game plan, audibles, tweaks are for him, not AR. Fantastic D. Good speacial team. Fantastic running back. Insane bail out security plan, namely, GW17. Why can’t he handle 70-80% of the snaps favorably. 

I just need to get out my head that he’s going to freeze like he did in the NE game last year. But if he does . . . 

[All Gas, No Gase]

The more tape I watch the better I feel about his performance. Obviously his performance wasn’t great and the interception was horrendous. I did see signs of improvement. He did well on most of the layup passes and on the play he ran backwards with the 3 defenders in his face he did try to escape right but changed backward because the ref was in his initial path. 
 

The last two passes before the touchdown to GW were great throws. Considering it’s Zach, I would gladly take his 2nd half performance every game for the rest of the year. 

[Dunnie]

20 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

That’s the take, right there.

I want to assume that we’re going to get schizophrenic Zach going forward: one okay game then two head scratchers. But why does it have to be that way?

ZW looked okay in the pre-season. He and his coaches say he is much more relaxed. He has Rodgers teaching him how to play the position. Hackett is better than that kid OC that was here. Dallas has a great D, so it seems, but Buffalo is no slouch on defense, and Zach did okay. Zach is coming into a game where the game plan, audibles, tweaks are for him, not AR. Fantastic D. Good speacial team. Fantastic running back. Insane bail out security plan, namely, GW17. Why can’t he handle 70-80% of the snaps favorably. 

I just need to get out my head that he’s going to freeze like he did in the NE game last year. But if he does . . . 

I am expecting the NE game to be his worst so far.  Well see.   Dallas will suck for the entire team .. travelling to Texas ... short week ... adds up to a flat loss. Hope I am dead wrong.

[jgb]

Just like I wouldn't declare a rookie QB a bust after one game, I wouldn't declare a bust QB cured after one. Even if he threw for 300 yards and 3 TDs.

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

That is simply not true.

He made one real bad interception, no doubt.  He also came into a REALLY difficult situation, made a couple throws, and allowed his D and special teams to win.  In short, he was a game manager.  

[chirorob]

6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I am expecting the NE game to be his worst so far.  Well see.   Dallas will suck for the entire team .. travelling to Texas ... short week ... adds up to a flat loss. Hope I am dead wrong.

This was going to be a very tough game with Rodgers.

Dallas is a solid team, kind of like the Jets.   Good D Line, good corners, good special teams, decent running attack.  Hot and cold QB who can sometimes play some truly bad football.

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

This was going to be a very tough game with Rodgers.

Dallas is a solid team, kind of like the Jets.   Good D Line, good corners, good special teams, decent running attack.  Hot and cold QB who can sometimes play some truly bad football.

Good point.  DAL is built very similarly to the Jets and was going to be perhaps our most difficult test in this hellish first few weeks.  I imagine the game plan will be all about GETTING THE BALL OUT QUICKLY.  Like it should have been last week but even more so.  There should be no 5-step drops.  Maybe some shotgun with quick reads (2 and throw it away).  If they can do enough that way to keep the run game rolling, they have a chance.  I don't expect them to win (I did expect it vs. BUF) but if they keep it close and competitive, and Zach doesn't lay an egg (unless the OLine literally sucks donkey balls), then I'll take that and move on to NE without too much disappointment.

I said this a while back.  If we simply come out of Week 6 with a 3-3 record, that will be okay.  The schedule gets a lot easier from there.  Getting the win last week was a huge point in our favor.

 

 

[Jetkwondo]

18 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

That’s the take, right there.

I want to assume that we’re going to get schizophrenic Zach going forward: one okay game then two head scratchers. But why does it have to be that way?

ZW looked okay in the pre-season. He and his coaches say he is much more relaxed. He has Rodgers teaching him how to play the position. Hackett is better than that kid OC that was here. Dallas has a great D, so it seems, but Buffalo is no slouch on defense, and Zach did okay. Zach is coming into a game where the game plan, audibles, tweaks are for him, not AR. Fantastic D. Good speacial team. Fantastic running back. Insane bail out security plan, namely, GW17. Why can’t he handle 70-80% of the snaps favorably. 

I just need to get out my head that he’s going to freeze like he did in the NE game last year. But if he does . . . 

That's a very good take of where we're at.  Him being relaxed is a great point as he seems to be playing with a new poised freedom. Not reckless, more patient, but still retaining his rare ability to be able to escape if forced to while still looking down field as compared to his bad habit before  of choosing early to escape and try for the big play. That's what was different in his back scramble on Monday where he wisely threw it out of bounds when he saw no open receivers instead of trying to force it.

I think if he was going to fall apart it would have happened Monday night considering the 9-11 national stage, Rodgers unexpected injury, Buffalo's aggressive D...we'll script it on the fly, get in there kid! pressure. 

 

 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

If Zach was terrible, what was Josh Allen?

Abysmal

[Better2bgreenthanblue]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Nor should you. The data shows that it is unlikely. If it was that simple first round QBs would never bust except for crimes, drug abuse, or career-ending injury.

People love to say “he has all the talent, just needs to fix the mental stuff.” That’s exactly what separates the busts from the successes.

I 100% agree but can't help but think some of these 22-24 year old kids just need time to grow up and toughen up. At risk of sounding like an old geezer my dad at 22 was married, 2 jobs and 2 young sons. My sons at 22 were frat boys drinking, chasing tail and figuring out a way to con their old man out of another couple years of the good life. Point is. Maybe Zack needs time....look at Geno, he couldn't tell time at 22 and now he is useful!

[jetswinbaby!]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Abysmal

Josh Allen also threw the only QB "perfect offensive game," in a playoff game, with more TD passes than incompletions...

Zach Wilson rarely throws more TD passes than interceptions...

[PorP]

37 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Good point.  DAL is built very similarly to the Jets and was going to be perhaps our most difficult test in this hellish first few weeks.  I imagine the game plan will be all about GETTING THE BALL OUT QUICKLY.  Like it should have been last week but even more so.  There should be no 5-step drops.  Maybe some shotgun with quick reads (2 and throw it away).  If they can do enough that way to keep the run game rolling, they have a chance.  I don't expect them to win (I did expect it vs. BUF) but if they keep it close and competitive, and Zach doesn't lay an egg (unless the OLine literally sucks donkey balls), then I'll take that and move on to NE without too much disappointment.

I said this a while back.  If we simply come out of Week 6 with a 3-3 record, that will be okay.  The schedule gets a lot easier from there.  Getting the win last week was a huge point in our favor.

 

 

I think you are spot on with the quick throws and I believe NH has to plan that way. 

People here may complain about the dink/dunk but that Dallas blitz is for reals. And Dallas hits like a truck. ZW holding the ball too long will provide us opportunity to complain about Boyle being the starter. 

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, Better2bgreenthanblue said:

I 100% agree but can't help but think some of these 22-24 year old kids just need time to grow up and toughen up. At risk of sounding like an old geezer my dad at 22 was married, 2 jobs and 2 young sons. My sons at 22 were frat boys drinking, chasing tail and figuring out a way to con their old man out of another couple years of the good life. Point is. Maybe Zack needs time....look at Geno, he couldn't tell time at 22 and now he is useful!

Some do need that and maybe Zach is one of the approximately 5%. The next hurdle is that it’s never happened for the team that drafted the bust and is almost always many years later (maybe maturity has something to do with it).

[Dunnie]

19 minutes ago, Better2bgreenthanblue said:

I 100% agree but can't help but think some of these 22-24 year old kids just need time to grow up and toughen up. At risk of sounding like an old geezer my dad at 22 was married, 2 jobs and 2 young sons. My sons at 22 were frat boys drinking, chasing tail and figuring out a way to con their old man out of another couple years of the good life. Point is. Maybe Zack needs time....look at Geno, he couldn't tell time at 22 and now he is useful!

Totally agree ... at 22 I was across the country exploring and getting hitched by 24. My dad also had two kids by 23 and was a captain in the Military over seas. Just a different culture these days. We are old.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Dunnie

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Rodgers doesn't throw picks b/c he stays away from the middle of the field. Rodgers throws lots of screens, check down, quick passes to the edges, and then hits long go routes that aren't interception prone. There's no secret to it. Zach, stay away from the middle, period.

This is a tough one for me.

Brady lived between the numbers for 20 years hitting up Edelman, Gronk, Amendola, Welker, etc. and managed a stellar TD:INT ratio.

A-Rod doesn't throw picks because he sees the field well, understands defenses, and throws accurate footballs, whether to guys that already uncovered or with anticipation to guys who he can see are about uncover.

ZW throws INTs because he doesn't see the field, has no clue what defenses are doing, has little to no ability to throw with timing and anticipation, and is as scattershot as any starting QB in the NFL over the last decade.

 

[PorP]

11 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

This is a tough one for me.

Brady lived between the numbers for 20 years hitting up Edelman, Gronk, Amendola, Welker, etc. and managed a stellar TD:INT ratio.

I think A-Rod doesn't throw picks because he sees the field well, understands defenses, and throws accurate footballs.

ZW throws INTs because he doesn't see the field, has no clue what defenses are doing, and is as scattershot as any starting QB in the NFL over the last decade.

 

You'll find out what you need to know about ZW Sunday. 

I personally believe MLF was half that kids problem.  Maybe I'm wrong?  But we have a new OC and one way or the other,  we'll see it Sunday. 

[Dunnie]

This is a tough one for me.
Brady lived between the numbers for 20 years hitting up Edelman, Gronk, Amendola, Welker, etc. and managed a stellar TD:INT ratio.
A-Rod doesn't throw picks because he sees the field well, understands defenses, and throws accurate footballs, whether to guys that already uncovered or with anticipation to guys who he can see are about uncover.
ZW throws INTs because he doesn't see the field, has no clue what defenses are doing, has little to no ability to throw with timing and anticipation, and is as scattershot as any starting QB in the NFL over the last decade.
 

Get it all out JNFC .. you still have a few days.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[RAB]

50 minutes ago, Better2bgreenthanblue said:

I 100% agree but can't help but think some of these 22-24 year old kids just need time to grow up and toughen up. At risk of sounding like an old geezer my dad at 22 was married, 2 jobs and 2 young sons. My sons at 22 were frat boys drinking, chasing tail and figuring out a way to con their old man out of another couple years of the good life. Point is. Maybe Zack needs time....look at Geno, he couldn't tell time at 22 and now he is useful!

In the old days, the conventional wisdom was that it took five years to develop an NFL QB. I guess the NFL defenses got easier or something because now they get two or they are a bust. But in all seriousness, as long as he keeps improving, he isn't a bust yet. I have hopes for the kid because his passer rating has gotten better in his first two years and seems to be much improved this year so far.  The average NFL passer rating hovers around 90, usually a tick under around 89. He has gone from 69.7, to 72.8. I think this year will be revealing to see if he can make the leap. I would be okay with mid 80s this year, but 90 is where you would actually expect a franchise QB to be.  He would have to be there in his fourth year to consider resigning him. With mid 80s play, and a healthy team, the Jets can do some damage this year.

Common thread between Russell, Rosen, and Leaf...all had passer ratings in the 50s in their final year. That is why they were out of the league. Zach is not that bad and never was. Time will tell if he is a career back-up or a true franchise QB. 

[Beerfish]

He made one terrible decision and throw on the interception, other than that he was acceptable.

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

was it you telling us all summer how zach was outplaying rodgers during camp?

[Scott Dierking]

The footwork was so much better. Much less flat footed throws. It was progress, but still a ways to go.

[rbstern]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Every Throw from Zach Wilson

 

Better than I recalled.  Competent against a good defense that was getting fast penetration.  One glaring error and another minor error.  He also got away with a couple on those long, backward scrambles, but it worked out.

That assessment does not account for pre-snap (or lack thereof) adjustments.  Just can tell from TV replays and only seeing part of the sets.  Not reasonable to expect a lot from him in that regard.  He'll be better prepared for that against Dallas, with the 1st team reps he'll get this week.

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

If Zach was terrible, what was Josh Allen?

Josh Allen is viewed as an elite franchise QB so none of his mistakes fall on him.

Int: Receiver ran wrong route, didn't fight for ball, stopped too early, stopped too late, ran too fast, ran too slow, didn't get to spot and Zach sucks

Bad read: receiver ran wrong route and Zach sucks

Fumble on snap: bad snap and Zach sucks

Fumble: bad ball Zach is not a NFL QB

Overthrow: Receiver should have jumped higher, Zach would have throw it 3 feet higher

Underthrow: Receiver should have dove, Zach sucks

TD: Allen is the greatest. Did you see that throw? Zach could never make that throw, Zach sucks

Long run Allen is most athletic player ever, he is the best RB on their team, how did we pick Darnold over him I hate Zach

Zach:

Int: all on Zach, Zach sucks, Zach is not an NFL QB

Bad read: Zach sucks, I hate Zach, worst Jets pick ever, nepotisn

Fumble on snap: Zach sucks, a child could catch that dirted snap with one hand while still scanning field

Fumble: Zach sucks, why didn't he protect the ball, Zach has no pocket awareness

Overthrow, underthrow: Zach sucks, just not a NFL QB, I hate Zach the most of any Jet ever, cut him tomorrow

TD; Zach sucks, it was an amazing catch by receiver, WR X  was WIDE open and he didn't even see him, the defense just gave that to him, Mike White would have made that TD better

Long run: He had X receiver wide open and decided to run, Zach sucks, what is the opponents defense doing

[Jimmy 2 Times]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Every Throw from Zach Wilson

He only threw two bad passes.

The pick and one where he was scrambling and threw it at the receiver's feet.

 

13-20 with three throw aways and one where he was being hit in the head. 

[EM31]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

If Zach was terrible, what was Josh Allen?

Whataboutism Max, really?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Allen has had any number of good games and any number more of average games.  Zach has had neither.  He can barely complete a pass out into the flat most weeks.  He also tries to run like Josh Allen except that he is built like Nancy Allen and that is a recipe for a short career.

[Biggs]

57 minutes ago, PorP said:

You'll find out what you need to know about ZW Sunday. 

I personally believe MLF was half that kids problem.  Maybe I'm wrong?  But we have a new OC and one way or the other,  we'll see it Sunday. 

Zach hasn't been good and most of the time he's stunk it up.  Lefluer took the heat but he didn't hand him the job the day he was drafted before they knew anything about Zach.  That decision was made above his paygrade.  

 Zach was a project when we drafted him.  Instead of treating him like a developmental QB the Jets management told him he was the man.  They blew smoke up his ass from day 1.  They did this kid no favors.  It takes steel nerves to play QB in the NFL and it takes real conviction. You have to drop back look up field, set your feet and throw with choas coming raining down all around you. It's not something that can be handed out through BS or scheme.  NFL Defenses are fast and tough and they look for any signs of weakness.   

He's a really nice kid and maybe a bit niave.   Zach had a real moment of truth last year.  He had the entire offseason to think about it and he wasn't being told he was the man at any time since he was benched last year.

There is no amount of he's our guy BS that's going to make Zach an NFL QB.   Douglas is working the phones while Saleh and Hackett are telling them they believe in him.  Doesn't matter what Saleh and Hackett tell him.  Doesn't matter what the scheme is. This is really about his mental makeup.    He's not the entitled savior.  He's the guy who's getting his last shot.   Zach has to step in and command the huddle like a leader.   He has to keep his eye's down field set his feet and chuck it.  Lefleur and Hackett aren't in the huddle and aren't making the throws.

He did a good job Monday night.  He wasn't the man he was the man's backup.  Sunday is different.   It's his moment to lead a competitive NFL team.  The odds are real small but I'm rooting for him.  The best thing for this team is for Zach to become a terrific QB and right now.   I hope the team ralley's and Zach steps up.  As a Jets fan I've been waiting for one of these QB's to step up since Namath.  It's right in front of him.  

He's just not a good QB.  It's not a crime and it's certainly not hate worthy.  Hope he has it in him to becomes one.  It would be great.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Better2bgreenthanblue said:

I 100% agree but can't help but think some of these 22-24 year old kids just need time to grow up and toughen up. At risk of sounding like an old geezer my dad at 22 was married, 2 jobs and 2 young sons. My sons at 22 were frat boys drinking, chasing tail and figuring out a way to con their old man out of another couple years of the good life. Point is. Maybe Zack needs time....look at Geno, he couldn't tell time at 22 and now he is useful!

but thats not the NFL anymore. these teams can identify within a few years and sometimes less if they have a FQB and 99.9% of the times they are right. and the 0.1% always happens many, many years down the road and always on a different team. 

Rosen was gone in a year, Lance i bet will not turn out to be anything. Baker and Trubinsky who played 10,000 times better than Zach has were let go after 4-5 years cause there teams knew they weren't FQBs.

and the problem with us is we are in our window to win a SB. we cant be wasting time developing Zach for another year. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

LOL it’s time

Make that call, Joseph

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

29 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Zach was a project when we drafted him.

Still is

[Kendan]

Good post. Having Hackett on the field and being a calming, positive influence is huge. 
 

Zack had a few good throws considering he was under constant pressure on nearly every throw. We need him to come in and command the huddle and dictate the defense. I hope he can do it. 

[Drums]

4 hours ago, talonmm said:

I really hope Rodgers becomes a "coach" this season.  He seemed to help not only Zack but other players on both sides of the ball, and even Becton.

IMO, this is the only chance Zach has of not being an absolute disaster. He survived week 1 because of the surrounding team and might survive other weeks but they'll all be dog fights. Zach is god awful against NE too which I may be more scared to watch than next week. On the bright side, NE has never had to face Breece Hall. 

[MysticalJet2]

I understand the history of ZW, but some seem to forget that ZW hadn't practiced at all with the #1's and probably had limited reps.  Let's see what he has after being the guy.  AR seems to have a ton of praise so lets see if 1 yr removed from his darkest days, new OC, new system, and mentoring by AR has transformed ZW.

AR best summed it up in his IG "The night is darkest before the dawn. And I shall rise yet again."  Maybe this is ZW time to rise.

[bostonmajet]

I agree with this assessment, but I would like to point out that even great QBs make stupid mistakes. Luckily for us, the QB we were playing against made a bunch more.

Since you rewatched the game, I will take your word for it, but I thought that 'dirt ball' was intentional as the WR wasn't open.

I expect more stupid plays, but hopefully more good plays than bad ones. I hope that this includes the coaches. They seem to coach scared with ZW. It often makes it worse as it tends to put him in a lot of 3rd and longs, and prevents ZW from making the big strides. I think it also messes with his confidence.

In fact, I believe the TD was a run call, but ZW changed it when he saw single coverage. I would have like to see them let him throw once (2nd down) and try to win the game outright.

I will say, ZW doesn't look like the deer in the headlights like he did before; and he seems to scramble with a purpose to get free enough to throw the ball away. I am a little worried about his health as the rules seem to have changed where you can do a helmet to helmet hit on a QB when one of his knees are down.. but we always have Boyle.