Jerimiah and Brooks debate White vs. Cooper ... best in class

[32EBoozer]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000485715/article/whos-the-best-wide-receiver-in-2015-nfl-draft?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cfb

 

I've been a strong Cooper supporter but White's close.

 

VERY Important because most certainly 1 of them, if not both could be staring us in the face at #6

[CTM]

cooper by a lot

[Villain The Foe]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000485715/article/whos-the-best-wide-receiver-in-2015-nfl-draft?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cfb

 

I've been a strong Cooper supporter but White's close.

 

VERY Important because most certainly 1 of them, if not both could be staring us in the face at #6

The argument is post "White's 40" so I can't take it seriously. 

 

I dont remember this even being an argument before the combine. White being the #3 WR in this class isn't a bad situation (Devante Parker is #2). Talking heads need to stop trying to make him more than what he is. 

[jetscrazey]

Both are very good.  I personally give a slight edge to Cooper because he's a little more slippery.  He has a unique ability to catch, turn, and get extra yards, as well as his superior route running.

[derp]

The argument is post "White's 40" so I can't take it seriously. 

 

I dont remember this even being an argument before the combine. White being the #3 WR in this class isn't a bad situation (Devante Parker is #2). Talking heads need to stop trying to make him more than what he is. 

 

For what it's worth, this was an argument before the combine. And the same guys liked White more then, too. Jeremiah, Davis, and Mayock all had White as the #1 receiver before the combine. McShay said he had a chance to be the top WR drafted before the combine. Saying White's getting #1 WR love because he burned a 4.35 isn't fair to him. It was a debate, they both crushed the combine, and it's still a debate.

 

Obviously you aren't that high on White as a prospect, can you elaborate on why a bit? Not arguing, just curious.

[JetBlue]

For what it's worth, this was an argument before the combine. And the same guys liked White more then, too. Jeremiah, Davis, and Mayock all had White as the #1 receiver before the combine. McShay said he had a chance to be the top WR drafted before the combine. Saying White's getting #1 WR love because he burned a 4.35 isn't fair to him. It was a debate, they both crushed the combine, and it's still a debate.

 

Obviously you aren't that high on White as a prospect, can you elaborate on why a bit? Not arguing, just curious.

I think that because White really just blew up this past season and Cooper has been good for a longer period of time factors in.  When I look at White, I see a guy who is a little raw in his route running (but not that much) and can be coached up.   He has incredible athletic ability, very soft hands and plays with a mean streak.  He is also a tremendous leaper and will go up and take the ball away even when he is well defended.   He also has the prototypical size for the modern receiver at 6'3 215.  He doesn't always play to his timed speed and I think that can improved as he get better at running routes.  

 

Cooper is like a machine and is so smooth it almost looks like he isn't working that hard.   He is technically the best receiver in this draft and is a very good athlete in his own right, although not at the overall level of White.   At 6'1, 211 it is not like he is undersized but he doesn't play "big" or very physical, nor is a very good blocker (something White also excels at).    When you watch Cooper play it is like he is always open; that is how good he is at running routes.  He can also line up at any receiver position on the field.   The guy will be a star for years to come but I don't think his ceiling is as high as Whites.   Time will tell but I don't think a team can go wrong with either of them. 

[Integrity28]

It would be amazing to land either of them. 

 

Marshall has actually played in the slot a lot during his career. 

 

Could you imagine 3-wide sets with Cooper, BMarsh and Decker all on the field at once? Nice.

[cant wait]

The argument is post "White's 40" so I can't take it seriously.

I dont remember this even being an argument before the combine. White being the #3 WR in this class isn't a bad situation (Devante Parker is #2). Talking heads need to stop trying to make him more than what he is.

Why discount combine metrics when evaluating prospects? If anything the more data you have the better

[Beerfish]

The argument is post "White's 40" so I can't take it seriously. 

 

I dont remember this even being an argument before the combine. White being the #3 WR in this class isn't a bad situation (Devante Parker is #2). Talking heads need to stop trying to make him more than what he is. 

They ALL had White higher before the combine.

[DaBallhawk]

It's not "close". It's either or. Either you think Cooper is easily better or you go with White. They're just different players with a different pedigree / body of work.

 

Personally I think Cooper is easily the better receiver of the two. He's closer to Antonio Brown/Sammy Watkins while Kevin White is more of a Mike Wallace. Case in point, look at where everybody had him going a few months ago. Somewhere in the 2nd round, maybe late 1st. Then he runs that fast 40 and suddenly he's up there with Amari? No. Way.

[CTM]

It would be amazing to land either of them. 

 

Marshall has actually played in the slot a lot during his career. 

 

Could you imagine 3-wide sets with Cooper, BMarsh and Decker all on the field at once? Nice.

 

 

if Cooper is there and we take a rusher it will be a big gamble, and I won't be happy... White vs an edge rusher I can live with them taking the rusher

[cant wait]

It's not "close". It's either or. Either you think Cooper is easily better or you go with White. They're just different players with a different pedigree / body of work.

Personally I think Cooper is easily the better receiver of the two. He's closer to Antonio Brown/Sammy Watkins while Kevin White is more of a Mike Wallace. Case in point, look at where everybody had him going a few months ago. Somewhere in the 2nd round, maybe late 1st. Then he runs that fast 40 and suddenly he's up there with Amari? No. Way.

Sounds exactly like the argument I heard last season by people who claimed marqise lee was a better prospect than Odell beckham

[TJ]

Amari Cooper is who I want. Very safe pick. So he'll probably be a Raider!

[David Harris]

I'd be thrilled to get either of the two- however, It appears it will be easier to get your talent at wide receiver later in this draft than it will be to add rushers. The problem is it is hard to trust any of the edge rushers, there will clearly be some hits and some Mrs.

[32EBoozer]

Same as the QB situation... hopefully, some other team helps make our decision earlier. Taking the 2 QB's and taking one of the WR's and 1 of the OLB's.

 

Or some team gives us an extra their 2 firsts to trade down to 12.There is an OLB and a OL I would love to take.

[derp]

It's not "close". It's either or. Either you think Cooper is easily better or you go with White. They're just different players with a different pedigree / body of work.

Personally I think Cooper is easily the better receiver of the two. He's closer to Antonio Brown/Sammy Watkins while Kevin White is more of a Mike Wallace. Case in point, look at where everybody had him going a few months ago. Somewhere in the 2nd round, maybe late 1st. Then he runs that fast 40 and suddenly he's up there with Amari? No. Way.

To reiterate what's been said twice in this thread already, a lot of the "experts" had White as the #1 receiver and a potential top ten pick before the combine. The workout just cemented him as a top ten pick.

[DaBallhawk]

To reiterate what's been said twice in this thread already, a lot of the "experts" had White as the #1 receiver and a potential top ten pick before the combine. The workout just cemented him as a top ten pick.

Namely?

[SenorGato]

Cooper and it's way less close than being sold.

[Integrity28]

if Cooper is there and we take a rusher it will be a big gamble, and I won't be happy... White vs an edge rusher I can live with them taking the rusher

 

I kind of feel the same way.

[HessStation]

Although there is no "safe" pick, I get it, I'd rather go with the "safer" pick in Cooper vs the potential higher ceiling guy in White.

If they take either I'll be excited.

[New York Mick]

It's not track, Cooper is a better prospect.

[faba]

If Cooper is there at 6 you have to take him. If not then it gets  more complicated

[FloridaJetsFan]

Although there is no "safe" pick, I get it, I'd rather go with the "safer" pick in Cooper vs the potential higher ceiling guy in White.

If they take either I'll be excited.

 

Agreed - wasn't there a "high ceiling" WR from Georgia Tech that one time? How'd that work out?

[Obrien2Toon]

I don't know where people are getting that White was an average prospect before the combine from. Even before the combine he was going in the top 12 picks.

That being said, Cooper is definitely the pick

[Persiussa]

The argument is post "White's 40" so I can't take it seriously.

I dont remember this even being an argument before the combine. White being the #3 WR in this class isn't a bad situation (Devante Parker is #2). Talking heads need to stop trying to make him more than what he is.

That was my line of thinking last year when I refused to rank any receivers above marquise lee who was the number 3 wr all offseason until a few weeks before the draft. I was wrong.

[Villain The Foe]

For what it's worth, this was an argument before the combine. And the same guys liked White more then, too. Jeremiah, Davis, and Mayock all had White as the #1 receiver before the combine. McShay said he had a chance to be the top WR drafted before the combine. Saying White's getting #1 WR love because he burned a 4.35 isn't fair to him. It was a debate, they both crushed the combine, and it's still a debate.

 

Obviously you aren't that high on White as a prospect, can you elaborate on why a bit? Not arguing, just curious.

Its not unfair to him, because I didnt hear it until he ran a 4.35. The argument could have been had somewhere on planet earth pre combine. Today you can't escape it. Thats the difference. 

 

The 40 time is what made this an argument. 

[derp]

Namely?

 

Mayock, Jeremiah, and Davis all had him as the #1 WR before the combine. McShay said he would be in contention to be a top 10 pick and the first receiver taken if he ran sub 4.5, which he obviously blew out of the water. Josh Norris has had him ahead of Cooper the whole time. There's more, but that's a least a sampling since they're easy to find. He's been a top 10 pick for a while, the combine just cemented it.

 

Kiper has had Cooper in front the whole time, I'm not trying to say Cooper's the universal #1. My point is that it's close, it's been close, and it's not because White ran a 4.35.

[derp]

Its not unfair to him, because I didnt hear it until he ran a 4.35. The argument could have been had somewhere on planet earth pre combine. Today you can't escape it. Thats the difference. 

 

The 40 time is what made this an argument. 

 

Again, all of those guys had White as the top receiver BEFORE the combine. The 40 is not what made it an argument. 

[Villain The Foe]

Why discount combine metrics when evaluating prospects? If anything the more data you have the better

Because thats not the purpose of the combine. Evaluating a talent should be done on the field. Gathering combine metrics should only be in support of what was evaluated on the field. Evaluating at the combine will have you do something stupid like trade up in the draft in order to pick a guy like Stephen Hill because he came from the same school as Demaryius Thomas and Megatron and he looked awesome running the gauntlet. 

 

People dont use the combine simply as "more data" they use it as "oh sh*t, dude just ran a 4.35", then he climbs up a bunch of spaces. Don't believe me? What happened to Breshad Perriman the moment he ran a sub 4.3 at his pro day? What happened when Phillip Dorsett. These guys are suddenly in the conversation as being 1st round picks in the draft. Im not saying that you discount or dismiss the combine, what im saying is that people are dismissing the evaluating aspect and going solely off of combine metrics which has never made a football player. 

[Villain The Foe]

They ALL had White higher before the combine.

No they ALL didnt because if they did then Amari Cooper wouldnt have been the #1 WR going into the combine which he in fact was. There were probably people (few) that was making the case for it but there wasnt a bunch of people that was flat out saying that Kevin White was the best receiver in this years draft. 

[Villain The Foe]

That was my line of thinking last year when I refused to rank any receivers above marquise lee who was the number 3 wr all offseason until a few weeks before the draft. I was wrong.

People are wrong sometimes. But I hope you're not taking your wrong as some sort of standard for future drafts. Because I can sit here and tell you that most of the time Im right about WR's, doesnt mean that I'll get anything right this year. Last year was last year. This is a different year with different talent. 

[Villain The Foe]

Again, all of those guys had White as the top receiver BEFORE the combine. The 40 is not what made it an argument. 

The 40 time made it an argument just like it has made Perriman a possible first round pick along with Phillip Dorsett. A few guys making the argument before hand isn't what im talking about. What im talking about is the overwhelming amount of debate thats occurring TODAY. 

 

 

You know what im saying.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Again, all of those guys had White as the top receiver BEFORE the combine. The 40 is not what made it an argument.

Cooper has been a top five pick in this draft since before White qualified for big boy college. Four star recruit. Dominated the highest level of college competition to the tune of 1000 yards and 10 touchdowns at the age of 18. Been in the same spot at the top of everybody's mock for a year, during which time he had a monster season and fake debate showed up sporting dreads.

[Beerfish]

No they ALL didnt because if they did then Amari Cooper wouldnt have been the #1 WR going into the combine which he in fact was. There were probably people (few) that was making the case for it but there wasnt a bunch of people that was flat out saying that Kevin White was the best receiver in this years draft. 

The people named in the title of the thread had White ahead of Cooper as their #1 WR before the combine.

[Villain The Foe]

The people named in the title of the thread had White ahead of Cooper as their #1 WR before the combine.

Obviously you're not hearing me so I'll let another poster here say it to you. Read below. 

 

 

 

Cooper has been a top five pick in this draft since before White qualified for big boy college. Four star recruit. Dominated the highest level of college competition to the tune of 1000 yards and 10 touchdowns at the age of 18. Been in the same spot at the top of everybody's mock for a year, during which time he had a monster season and fake debate showed up sporting dreads.