Starters looked like crap again, should we be worried?

[jgb]

We're Jets fans. Always worry.

[Jetster]

Preseason games EVERY YEAR send fans on tumultuous highs & lows for no good reason. Injuries are the ONLY thing you should be concerned with. Every season level headed football fans say, "don't take too much out of these practice games" but every year the threads are this one sucks, that one sucks, Bowles & Gailey are in over their heads.

Relax people. Did anyone here believe that we could change the coaching staff, bring in a slew of FAs & come out of the gate firing on all cylinders? Our starting QB got his face busted up just a short time ago. You know, the guy that just got ALL the 1st team reps. Instead of just trying to look at the negative how about some positives?

Marshall & Decker are pretty beastly together, Kerley was coming around before the concussion, Ivory/Powell/Stacy look like a SOLID RB threesome, Leonard Williams is the REAL DEAL man, the dude just turned 21 years old! Wait until you see him play with Mo & Sheldon after the 4th game! Mauldin looks like a player. At some point I'm sure we'll have Amaro & Smith back.

Petty looks like a real QB that Gailey can nurture & bring along slowly. I can't remember when I've seen a Jet QB at 230 LBs that could throw, run and do it all with a smile on his face, this kid loves to play the game, he's got a chance if we don't ruin him.

There are a lot of positives to look at. How about we wait & see if Bowles can help the get BETTER week to week, unlike Rex who won every other game and the team got worse & worse the longer he was here.

GO JETS!

 

[Lupz27]

Preseason games EVERY YEAR send fans on tumultuous highs & lows for no good reason. Injuries are the ONLY thing you should be concerned with. Every season level headed football fans say, "don't take too much out of these practice games" but every year the threads are this one sucks, that one sucks, Bowles & Gailey are in over their heads.

Relax people. Did anyone here believe that we could change the coaching staff, bring in a slew of FAs & come out of the gate firing on all cylinders? Our starting QB got his face busted up just a short time ago. You know, the guy that just got ALL the 1st team reps. Instead of just trying to look at the negative how about some positives?

Marshall & Decker are pretty beastly together, Kerley was coming around before the concussion, Ivory/Powell/Stacy look like a SOLID RB threesome, Leonard Williams is the REAL DEAL man, the dude just turned 21 years old! Wait until you see him play with Mo & Sheldon after the 4th game! Mauldin looks like a player. At some point I'm sure we'll have Amaro & Smith back.

Petty looks like a real QB that Gailey can nurture & bring along slowly. I can't remember when I've seen a Jet QB at 230 LBs that could throw, run and do it all with a smile on his face, this kid loves to play the game, he's got a chance if we don't ruin him.

There are a lot of positives to look at. How about we wait & see if Bowles can help the get BETTER week to week, unlike Rex who won every other game and the team got worse & worse the longer he was here.

GO JETS!

 

The main problem is the Jets, and no NFL team has, or will win with Fitzpatrick, dude is a backup QB who should never be asked to play more than 2 games if you plan on getting to the playoffs.

[Larz]

bowles has been holding sheldumb back in the first quarter, obviously to get used to playing without him.  he hasn't blitzed really at all.  the safeties suck and the LB's are slow.  I fear it will be like the good old days on defense, revis holds his guy to 4 for 40, but the TE goes for 110 and a TD and the slot WR goes for 90 and a TD so who cares

 

the offense actually looks much better to me.  once they get devin smith back, it will look even better.  I think they will have many fewer 3 and outs and a better redzone TD rate.  the TE's suck but petty looks much further along than expected

they desperately need kick returners. powell is hot garbage and kerley looks like he is just trying to stay healthy

[Ex-Rex]

Fitz arm is weaker than I imagined.  I'm now officially worried. We also underwhelm at TE.  At OG I hope J. Harrison works out because our depth looks like jags.  No Mo, no Sheldon, so not time to panic.  Still a big question ??? at safety, this isn't the team I thought we were getting.

Richardson has been playing with the second team defense. Those are the only guys you need to watch in the preseason and the second and third team both look good. Impressed with Bryce Petty...he came a long way in one week.

[joewilly12]

The defense seems slow off the ball a lot of times they also look confused in what scheme they should be playing. 

[Jetlife33]

The defense seems slow off the ball a lot of times they also look confused in what scheme they should be playing. 

The starting defense really needs to work on their communication with each other. It seems they have no idea where their teammates are supposed to be. 

[Flushing Roots]

I seem to recall years we went 4-0 in the PS and were horrible in the RS.

The opposite is true as well.  Not worried.... for now.

[bostonmajet]

A couple of points:

1. Yes the O-Line doesn't look fantastic, but ask RGIII which line protected their QB better against Detroit.  Yeah, Brick and Mangold each blew coverage, but it is still early

2. Fitz doesn't look great, but remember his leg isn't 100% yet, he will get better, but he is what he is; that's why Geno had an edge; I think Geno is done here and this is what it is.  Pats scored no points in the first 28 minutes in the half; should they panic.  Atlanta is playing the starting O that has been before; Jets were playing the starting O with a backup QB (it is what it is) they are trying out new packages and people (why the hell else is Kerley not in the starting O).

3. Defense blows big plays, but they did that all last year as well.  Hopefully some of the confusion will be resolved soon, and they will play better.  Williams looks like he is going to be a monster (yeah his Safety was on a blown play against backup QB, but Ryan couldn't have gotten out of that - he is not Golston) and is showing some promise.

4. Petty looks great so far; much further along as we could have expected.  I would not rush him in, however; would rather sacrifice the season than sacrifice his future (or another QBs future)

[UnitedWhofans]

Honestly, Giants Jets will be very interesting. Neither club's first team has looked impressive. Watched the Giants last night. Eli was off on a lot of throws. Defense was bend and not break like ours. 

As for us, hell, we scored only 3 points against Detroit's backups so this is clearly an improvement on the previous week. 

People are worried about checking down too much when just a few months ago Tom Brady checked his way down to a title. Now Ryan Fitzpatrick is not Tom Brady, but the same system still applies. This is what the spread is.

[Larz]

Honestly, Giants Jets will be very interesting. Neither club's first team has looked impressive. Watched the Giants last night. Eli was off on a lot of throws. Defense was bend and not break like ours. 

As for us, hell, we scored only 3 points against Detroit's backups so this is clearly an improvement on the previous week. 

People are worried about checking down too much when just a few months ago Tom Brady checked his way down to a title. Now Ryan Fitzpatrick is not Tom Brady, but the same system still applies. This is what the spread is.

this fan base is traumatized by check downs, but they love teddy bridgewater, lol.    it makes for long drives and moves the chains

[UnitedWhofans]

this fan base is traumatized by check downs, but they love teddy bridgewater, lol.    it makes for long drives and moves the chains

It's amazing when the two quarterbacks in the modern era, Brady and Montana threw checkdowns ALL THE TIME. Yet the fanbase complains about checkdowns

[UnitedWhofans]

In American football, a checkdown pass is when the quarterback attempts to complete a short, accurate pass to a running back or tight end as a last option when the wide receivers are covered. The term means that the quarterback has "checked down" his list of receivers. Because the quarterback does not look for the checkdown pass until after he has scanned for open wide receivers down the field for about 3–4 seconds, the defensive line has had time to enter the backfield and so a checkdown pass is often thrown in the face of pressure from the defensive line. Alternatively, if the defensive team has sent a blitz, with linebackers and/or defensive backs also looking to sack the quarterback, the checkdown may also turn out to be the quarterback's second or even first look. For this reason, the ability to complete checkdown passes, while not as dramatic as longer completions, is often seen as a key sign of an effective and efficient quarterback. These plays often result in significant yardage gain, because most of the defensive players are either in the backfield in pursuit of the quarterback, or deeper in the secondary covering receivers.

[Larz]

It's amazing when the two quarterbacks in the modern era, Brady and Montana threw checkdowns ALL THE TIME. Yet the fanbase complains about checkdowns

no doubt.  its a stupid macho thing.  fitz had a sweet completion vs the falcons where he waited for the LB to rush, changed his arm angle, and threw it right bye him to a TE or RB that the LB abandoned to rush, who then got maybe 5 yards.   haven't seen a QB do that here in years. not a highlight reel play, but keeps the O moving

[drdetroit]

Such a negative fan base.  

[Charlie Brown]

Preseason games EVERY YEAR send fans on tumultuous highs & lows for no good reason. Injuries are the ONLY thing you should be concerned with. Every season level headed football fans say, "don't take too much out of these practice games" but every year the threads are this one sucks, that one sucks, Bowles & Gailey are in over their heads.

Relax people. Did anyone here believe that we could change the coaching staff, bring in a slew of FAs & come out of the gate firing on all cylinders? Our starting QB got his face busted up just a short time ago. You know, the guy that just got ALL the 1st team reps. Instead of just trying to look at the negative how about some positives?

Marshall & Decker are pretty beastly together, Kerley was coming around before the concussion, Ivory/Powell/Stacy look like a SOLID RB threesome, Leonard Williams is the REAL DEAL man, the dude just turned 21 years old! Wait until you see him play with Mo & Sheldon after the 4th game! Mauldin looks like a player. At some point I'm sure we'll have Amaro & Smith back.

Petty looks like a real QB that Gailey can nurture & bring along slowly. I can't remember when I've seen a Jet QB at 230 LBs that could throw, run and do it all with a smile on his face, this kid loves to play the game, he's got a chance if we don't ruin him.

There are a lot of positives to look at. How about we wait & see if Bowles can help the get BETTER week to week, unlike Rex who won every other game and the team got worse & worse the longer he was here.

GO JETS!

 

Wow a sane Post!!!

I am not quite sure that you are a real Jets fan????

[NJ]

Looked to me like Fitz wasn't checking down as much as he was intentionally throwing quick slants - as he was probably directed to.

Petty looked pretty damn good for his 2nd appearance in the NFL

[addage]

The more sanguine view--that this is preseason with lots of new players and a new coaching staff--is very reasonable and may be right.

Otoh, the D is supposed to be the strength of the team.  They have not been.  And the individual play of the veterans has been average or worse.  So maybe we will see them gel and excel--but it may not happen.  We may well be overestimating the talent of the younger players and the "proven" vets may be in decline.  If so, another long season is in store.

Normally, I gibe at the SOJ mentality.  But Idzik was so bad as a GM that its hard to recover--or think that all his harm can be undone in one off season.

[JetBlue]

i think what we're realizing is that it takes some time for a team to become proficient with a new offense and defense, even with a veteran qb who knows the system and even with guys like revis and cro in the secondary.  they have 3 weeks before the real season starts, and there are some key guys out like amaro and devin smith on offense and mo and yes pryor on defense.  i'm actually encouraged by the offense, it will be nice to have a veteran qb who can go through reads quicker.  

Sorry, no intelligent posts allowed!!!  Don't you realize it is the second preseason game? Don't you understand how important the results of this game is going to be 5 or 6 weeks from now?   

 

[JetBlue]

Fitzpatrick the starting QB looked horrible again Bryce Petty sparked the offense Fitzpatrick showed zero emotion and nothing that warrants being a starting QB on the team. 

 

Id like to see Petty work with the starters next week.

Not happening. Again, the impatience of the fanbase.  Fitz needs all the first team reps he can get.  Petty will get his chance; let Gailey and the QB coach continue to mold and develop him.  We might really have something here but lets not rush like we did Sanchez and Geno.   

[Beerfish]

Ex season is pretty meaningless for the most part as far as what happens in the reg season unless it is also paired up with what is happening in camp.  For example, there should be legit worry about Cromartie.  He's getting abuse each time he steps on the field and with Revis on the other side he is going to be seeing the ball a lot.  I hope one of our other CB's shows enough  to be able to step in quickly if Cro is as lousy as he seems be through camp.

[JetBlue]

 http://turnonthejets.com/2015/08/picksix-game-review-jets-vs-falcons/#more-28337

 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick’s arm strength severely limits this offense.
When Devin Smith was drafted, the belief was that he’d help stretch the field for an offense that hasn’t had many players do that in recent memory. This was before Geno Smith got hurt. With Fitzpatrick at the helm, the Jets offense is going to have to be methodical and utilize slants and bubble screens to get the ball into the hands of their playmakers. Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker excel at getting yards after the catch, so this benefits them the most. However, Fitzpatrick physically cannot throw deep so you’d hope Chan Gailey can come up with creative ways to create big plays because Fitzpatrick’s arm doesn’t allow them to be create the old fashioned way with 9 routes to your WR with deep speed.

Yesterday it was reported that Fitz threw a 45 yard bomb to Marshall. Not sure how far the ball traveled in the air but I think we may be over emphasizing this whole arm strength thing.  No doesn't have Geno or Petty's arm but he can get the ball down field.  I think it has been more a issue of him working to get comfortable with the first team offense. 

[Sperm Edwards]

 

Did we watch a different game? I saw one big play from Ryan the one where couples missed a pass deflection and it turned into a big gain. Aside from that I think they held Ryan to something like 20 yards and the run game to something like 6...The thing that killed us was the flags (Revis holding flag on Jones turned a field goal into a TD). We were also much improved from the game vs the Lions, yes they still have to work on some things but we also still have 2 pre season games left.

There is a huge problem with this line of thinking, as much as I'm sympathetic.

Eliminating that 60-yard play doesn't merely look at everything else other than that play. It does something more, however inadvertent: it effectively credits them with a stop they didn't actually make by "deleting" it from the drives by which we are "permitted" to judge them. 

[Gas2No99]

Not time to panic. It's the midway point until the games really matter. We have incredible depth on both sides of the ball which is exponentially better than last year's sorry lot.

Cro is showing what all of us knew back in 2006: exceptional physical specimen for the position who will have to rely on perfecting technique once father time begins to call; Cro refuses to pick up the phone. It is disconcerting that he's the same player we had in 2013, but my hope belies on the fact that our defense will begin to blitz once the games count which exposes Cro less to covering WRs and being able to ballhawk more. If he doesn't, Skrine will go outside and Cro to the pine.

Fitzy clearly lacks the zip on the ball we desire, but the last time this team won a Division Title we had a mortal arm lobbing the way with smart QB play and taking what the defense gave him: Chadwick Pennington.

Too early to panic, but never to complain; that's a Jets fan's God-given right!

[56mehl56]

Yesterday it was reported that Fitz threw a 45 yard bomb to Marshall. Not sure how far the ball traveled in the air but I think we may be over emphasizing this whole arm strength thing.  No doesn't have Geno or Petty's arm but he can get the ball down field.  I think it has been more a issue of him working to get comfortable with the first team offense. 

Arm strength ( or being able to stretch the field) is crucial for Gailey's offense to run efficiently. A lot of the quick slants, screens which are staples of Gailey's system become a lot less effective when there's 8 men stacking the box. We've seen this horror show before when we had QB's who couldn't stretch the field its not a good thing.

And any QB should be able to throw a 45 yard pass downfield in practice where there's no "real" pass rush. If he couldn't even do that he should be retired from the NFL.

[bealeb319]

There is a huge problem with this line of thinking, as much as I'm sympathetic.

Eliminating that 60-yard play doesn't merely look at everything else other than that play. It does something more, however inadvertent: it effectively credits them with a stop they didn't actually make by "deleting" it from the drives by which we are "permitted" to judge them. 

Nah, the play happened and the coverage was bad there is no deleting it. Lets hope they will learn from that play and fix the problem whether it be a communication issue as they claim or if they need to move Couples out of the position. the point I was trying to make though is most of the game they looked alright, largely improved from the previous week. We are certainly in better shape that a majority of posters on this forum would make you think if you weren't able to see the games for yourself.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Nah, the play happened and the coverage was bad there is no deleting it. Lets hope they will learn from that play and fix the problem whether it be a communication issue as they claim or if they need to move Couples out of the position. the point I was trying to make though is most of the game they looked alright, largely improved from the previous week. We are certainly in better shape that a majority of posters on this forum would make you think if you weren't able to see the games for yourself.

 

Understood, but by saying "the rest of the game except for ___" you're removing all the other (potentially) bad plays they'd have made if the pass was a mere completion. At the rate they were going, they weren't stopping Atlanta even if they weren't spotted 60 yards to a freaking FB.

What I'm saying is there's every likelihood they'd have still given up all 60 of those yards. It's just too convenient to look at only the other plays.

I don't at all think they'll look like this all season long, but the delta is a lot larger than I figured it would be.

[Jet Nut]

There is a huge problem with this line of thinking, as much as I'm sympathetic.

Eliminating that 60-yard play doesn't merely look at everything else other than that play. It does something more, however inadvertent: it effectively credits them with a stop they didn't actually make by "deleting" it from the drives by which we are "permitted" to judge them. 

Cant eliminate the play.  But it was responsible for 62 of the 84 yards they had on that drive.  One play is easier to fix than a 10 play drive.  And after that drive the Falcons had 1 yard over the rest of the half.

[Jetmech]

The more sanguine view--that this is preseason with lots of new players and a new coaching staff--is very reasonable and may be right.

Otoh, the D is supposed to be the strength of the team.  They have not been.  And the individual play of the veterans has been average or worse.  So maybe we will see them gel and excel--but it may not happen.  We may well be overestimating the talent of the younger players and the "proven" vets may be in decline.  If so, another long season is in store.

Normally, I gibe at the SOJ mentality.  But Idzik was so bad as a GM that its hard to recover--or think that all his harm can be undone in one off season.

PS aside the DL missing two of their top players has shown up. Can't deny it has effected the performance..

[Larz]

I wonder how much of this is related to kacy rodgers running an NFL defense for the first time with guys he is just getting to know

bowles has said he will let rodgers call the defense

 

[Tinstar]

Nothing to see here. What you have is an offense playing without it's starting QB and WRs getting to know the replacement. The OL is more of an issue than the rest of the offense, because just like last year and the year before, we still can't pass protect worth a darn.  On the defensive side of the ball, we have a Defensive line missing the 2 starting ends and 2 OLBers who should be doing something else.

 

Pace should be coaching high school football somewhere and Coples should be chasing QBs instead of covering RBs .

It's what you do in training camp folks, you experiment so you find out what people can and can't do. 

[Sperm Edwards]

There is a huge problem with this line of thinking, as much as I'm sympathetic.

Eliminating that 60-yard play doesn't merely look at everything else other than that play. It does something more, however inadvertent: it effectively credits them with a stop they didn't actually make by "deleting" it from the drives by which we are "permitted" to judge them. 

Cant eliminate the play.  But it was responsible for 62 of the 84 yards they had on that drive.  One play is easier to fix than a 10 play drive.  And after that drive the Falcons had 1 yard over the rest of the half.

My very point is they're being absolved of not giving up a 10 play drive because they gave up so much in 1 play (one short pass play to a fullback at that). If the 60 yarder came as the result of a deep pass where someone was out-leaped or slipped and allowed the WR to get an extra 1-2 yards of separation, then such a nothing-to-worry-about claim could be made.

If not for giving up a full 60 yards, the pass still would have been completed for an easy first down, on their way to marching down the field.

As to what happened on subsequent drives, well on the next drive they needed one yard and got 1 yard with Ryan still in there. On the one hand, one can say the glass is half full because we only gave up 1 more yard on the ensuing drive (also greatly impacting Ryan's ypc/ypa despite his perfect success on the drive). On the other hand, 1 yard was Ryan's best-case scenario, since it was a 1 yard TD pass.

Beyond that, I take for granted Matt Ryan is their only starter-worthy QB so judging them positively against Yates QB'ing is not really reassuring.

[section314]

Nothing to see here. What you have is an offense playing without it's starting QB and WRs getting to know the replacement. The OL is more of an issue than the rest of the offense, because just like last year and the year before, we still can't pass protect worth a darn.  On the defensive side of the ball, we have a Defensive line missing the 2 starting ends and 2 OLBers who should be doing something else.

 

Pace should be coaching high school football somewhere and Coples should be chasing QBs instead of covering RBs .

It's what you do in training camp folks, you experiment so you find out what people can and can't do. 

Excellent post!  Nailed it. 

[JustInFudge]

Ex season is pretty meaningless for the most part as far as what happens in the reg season unless it is also paired up with what is happening in camp.  For example, there should be legit worry about Cromartie.  He's getting abuse each time he steps on the field and with Revis on the other side he is going to be seeing the ball a lot.  I hope one of our other CB's shows enough  to be able to step in quickly if Cro is as lousy as he seems be through camp.

Marcus Williams looks significantly better than Cro.  I really hope they dont pull some veteran bull sh*t and keep his shot ass out there.  He literally looks done.

[Jet Nut]

My very point is they're being absolved of not giving up a 10 play drive because they gave up so much in 1 play (one short pass play to a fullback at that). If the 60 yarder came as the result of a deep pass where someone was out-leaped or slipped and allowed the WR to get an extra 1-2 yards of separation, then such a nothing-to-worry-about claim could be made.

If not for giving up a full 60 yards, the pass still would have been completed for an easy first down, on their way to marching down the field.

As to what happened on subsequent drives, well on the next drive they needed one yard and got 1 yard with Ryan still in there. On the one hand, one can say the glass is half full because we only gave up 1 more yard on the ensuing drive (also greatly impacting Ryan's ypc/ypa despite his perfect success on the drive). On the other hand, 1 yard was Ryan's best-case scenario, since it was a 1 yard TD pass.

Beyond that, I take for granted Matt Ryan is their only starter-worthy QB so judging them positively against Yates QB'ing is not really reassuring.

Again, not absolving them of giving up the TD.  But not because a 1 play drive is excusable.  But you have to admit if the Falcons didn't hit on that play there is no certainty that the Falcons would have scored.  Just as if they don't hit on that broken play where not only is Q caught in coverage he has no help, theres no guarantee they score.  But they did and we can't sub one drive for another. If they give up a 10 play drive thats another issue to deal with.  

My real point was that after the opening drive they got it together.  There was an argument going on that the D sucked and my reply was they gave up 84 on the first drive, 62 on one play and 1 yard after that.  Not a bad half on its own, would take it every game right now.