Extend Macc and Bowles

[varjet]

Here is a radical concept:

2 Years ago Woody commissioned an exhaustive search to find the GM and HC to take the Jets forward.   His selections were praised, and they received four year contracts.

They were also told to competitively rebuild.  This looked like an OK idea in 2015, but a very bad idea in 2016.  Macc was Executive of the Year in 2015, and Bowles won 10 games.

2016 was marked with some very bad decisions and actions by both Mac and Bowles, but Woody decided to retain them based on the overall picture.  The conclusion of most is that a true rebuild has to happen.

So now since the job has effectively been redefined, and new assistants need to be hired for the next phase, I think the only choices are to extend them (or fire them, which they won't).  Give them an extra year to implement the rebuild.  That way they can attract better assistants and encourage Bowles and Macc to make better decisions.  This last point is important-both Macc and Bowles will be incentivized to make short-term decisions to keep their jobs.

But in a year where we elected a 70 year old President who has filled his cabinet with 70+ year old experienced people, Macc and Bowles need a Coughlin type to guide them.

WIthout that, the Jets are doomed until the team completely hits the bricks.

[section314]

I think you raise some valid points here. However, the biggest obstacle to getting true professionals in here continues to be Woody, and the absolute joke of the way he runs this franchise. This should be a hallmark team in the NFL, a place where "football people" would die to come and work. Instead, he's turned it into the exact opposite, a place where truly competent people run from it like the plague. Until Woody sells this team, or at least puts himself into a "blind trust' as far as decision making goes, this crap will go on forever. If Woody truly was a Jet fan, just like us, he should cash out and get the hell out. Stronger letter to follow.

 

[SAR I]

Maccagnan, yes.

Bowles, no.

Maccagnan has proven himself a good young GM with a strong eye for talent from a scout's point of view.

Bowles is mistake-prone and the way his D laid down this year was disgusting, I don't think I've seen that level of locker room dysfunction since the Kotite days.

SAR I

[PCP63]

Don't see what the POTUS and his staff have to do with the Jets. 

And don't see why in the hell we should keep coddling these guys and making excuses for them. Bowles' job was never redefined. He made many, many, many poor decisions. Too many to be salvaged at this point. Especially when he continued to trot Fitz out there week after week.

Mac, on the other hand, I'm on the fence, and think he should get another year. Sure, he drafted Williams, but that was an obvious pick. Took no talent or evaluation to determine he was the correct pick. Even then, he wasn't even close to our biggest need, especially with Beasley and Ray on the board (hindsight is 20/20, which is why I mentioned Ray).

Sure, he found Marshall and Anderson, but UDFAs are pretty much luck of the draw. That being said, it's rare to hit that good. We'll have to see with Mac.

[Fibonacci]

I wouldn't touch Mac right now. He shows promise as long as he learns not to give big money to old vets. Bowles doesn't deserve an extension at this point. Let him earn it first.  

[Obrien2Toon]

Mac is fine, I think will be our long term GM and bring a lot of success.

Bowles is done, I can't remember a team folding on a coach like that, who ever became successful.

And next year is a lost season, then we hire our coach of the future in 18'

[JetsFanatic]

Just now, Obrien2Toon said:

Mac is fine, I think will be our long term GM and bring a lot of success.

Bowles is done, I can't remember a team folding on a coach like that, who ever became successful.

And next year is a lost season, then we hire our coach of the future in 18'

The 1994 NY Jets folded even worse under Carroll, he turned out pretty good.

[ASH1962]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Maccagnan, yes.

Bowles, no.

Maccagnan has proven himself a good young GM with a strong eye for talent from a scout's point of view.

Bowles is mistake-prone and the way his D laid down this year was disgusting, I don't think I've seen that level of locker room dysfunction since the Kotite days.

SAR I

This plus a million. You have to be kidding me (OP). Extend the moron? Well like I have been saying, how about a 10 year contract with a no termination whatsoever clause built in? I will not live past 58 if they extend Bowltite, or, to stay alive and / or sane, will have to disown my beloved football team until such time as they learn how to run a football organization. This past season took years off of my life watching the NY Quitters. This is the only organization that has this dysfunctional hierarchy, GM & HC are equal under the owner, WTF man? That is not only pathetic but is impossible to succeed.

What is so difficult? The owner hires a football GM to run the organization correctly

GM hires a HC (not a Bubba Gump)

HC hires his CS

Is this a new concept? Is this not the way every team in the NFL runs except this mess?

WTF is Woody Johnson thinking? Is he dense?

I do not care about 2017, we will win 3 games at best. Who the OC is, is irrelevant. Let things be so we can get rid of Bubba Gump Bowltite and hopefully get a real HC and CS in here.

[rangerous]

25 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Maccagnan, yes.

Bowles, no.

Maccagnan has proven himself a good young GM with a strong eye for talent from a scout's point of view.

Bowles is mistake-prone and the way his D laid down this year was disgusting, I don't think I've seen that level of locker room dysfunction since the Kotite days.

SAR I

i tend to agree but at the same time if extending bowles helps land a better oc and coaching staff then it should be considered.  And what's the worst thing that can happen?  if bowles gets launched with two years left woody would be out of pocket that money.  at some point he has to determine if he's doing the right thing for the team or for his pocketbook.

[CrazyCarl40]

56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Maccagnan, yes.

Bowles, no.

Maccagnan has proven himself a good young GM with a strong eye for talent from a scout's point of view.

Bowles is mistake-prone and the way his D laid down this year was disgusting, I don't think I've seen that level of locker room dysfunction since the Kotite days.

SAR I

Based on what exactly? I'll give you he has found a little young talent in and out of the draft, but it's obvious he is in way over his head when it comes to contracts, free agency, and what positions actually matter. I think he's done a worse job than Bowles. And that's saying something. Good scout? Sure. Good GM? Each day it looks less and less likely. 

[peebag]

50 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

The 1994 NY Jets folded even worse under Carroll, he turned out pretty good.

after a few years of on the job training - I don't think we can give Bowles 10+ years to get his sh*t together.

[ScarletKnight89]

Both have 2 years on their contracts. There is no need to extend either. Let next season play out and then make a decision.

[Pcola]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

Here is a radical concept:

2 Years ago Woody commissioned an exhaustive search to find the GM and HC to take the Jets forward.   His selections were praised, and they received four year contracts.

They were also told to competitively rebuild.  This looked like an OK idea in 2015, but a very bad idea in 2016.  Macc was Executive of the Year in 2015, and Bowles won 10 games.

2016 was marked with some very bad decisions and actions by both Mac and Bowles, but Woody decided to retain them based on the overall picture.  The conclusion of most is that a true rebuild has to happen.

So now since the job has effectively been redefined, and new assistants need to be hired for the next phase, I think the only choices are to extend them (or fire them, which they won't).  Give them an extra year to implement the rebuild.  That way they can attract better assistants and encourage Bowles and Macc to make better decisions.  This last point is important-both Macc and Bowles will be incentivized to make short-term decisions to keep their jobs.

But in a year where we elected a 70 year old President who has filled his cabinet with 70+ year old experienced people, Macc and Bowles need a Coughlin type to guide them.

WIthout that, the Jets are doomed until the team completely hits the bricks.

I think in order to rebuild correctly, Woody has to do this.  Otherwise, Macc and Bowles aren't going to want to go into what is perceived must win season with a young rebuilding roster.

They are going to overpay a vet QB who is average and reload the roster with over priced, past their prime free agents in order to get back to mediocre to save their jobs.

Lets face it, it's not hard to rebuild a roster in one year if the goal is to win 8 games.  It takes time to rebuild a roster to win 11 or 12.  You have to be able to withstand the growing pains of playing young players so that they can improve.  If the FO or CS, or potential assistants think Woody is one bad season from cleaning house, their mentality changes.  And it makes it impossible to recruit talent.

Same thing with free agents.  If they want to win, then they go elsewhere.  If they want to get paid, then their motives hurt the team chemistry.

[varjet]

38 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

This plus a million. You have to be kidding me (OP). Extend the moron? Well like I have been saying, how about a 10 year contract with a no termination whatsoever clause built in? I will not live past 58 if they extend Bowltite, or, to stay alive and / or sane, will have to disown my beloved football team until such time as they learn how to run a football organization. This past season took years off of my life watching the NY Quitters. This is the only organization that has this dysfunctional hierarchy, GM & HC are equal under the owner, WTF man? That is not only pathetic but is impossible to succeed.

What is so difficult? The owner hires a football GM to run the organization correctly

GM hires a HC (not a Bubba Gump)

HC hires his CS

Is this a new concept? Is this not the way every team in the NFL runs except this mess?

WTF is Woody Johnson thinking? Is he dense?

I do not care about 2017, we will win 3 games at best. Who the OC is, is irrelevant. Let things be so we can get rid of Bubba Gump Bowltite and hopefully get a real HC and CS in here.

My point was that after the last 2 years staying the course did not appear to be a good option.  

I agree that Bowles has looked bad, to some extent inexplicably.  In 2015 he looked decent with the change to improve (like Carroll and others did).  His decisions in 2016, including managing the coaching staff, have looked pathetic.  

I would have really considered firing Bowles now, but I can see the point of not because of the other ramifications.

But my bigger concerns is how players develop, and what other decisions are made, when Bowles and Macc are basically on one year prove it deals.

But given that there are many good teams out there with franchise QBs who got there because they stunk, maybe that is the real plan.  But Woody as Director of Football Operations makes sure there is a coach focusing on QB development.

 

 

 

[varjet]

5 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I think in order to rebuild correctly, Woody has to do this.  Otherwise, Macc and Bowles aren't going to want to go into what is perceived must win season with a young rebuilding roster.

They are going to overpay a vet QB who is average and reload the roster with over priced, past their prime free agents in order to get back to mediocre to save their jobs.

Lets face it, it's not hard to rebuild a roster in one year if the goal is to win 8 games.  It takes time to rebuild a roster to win 11 or 12.  You have to be able to withstand the growing pains of playing young players so that they can improve.  If the FO or CS, or potential assistants think Woody is one bad season from cleaning house, their mentality changes.  And it makes it impossible to recruit talent.

Same thing with free agents.  If they want to win, then they go elsewhere.  If they want to get paid, then their motives hurt the team chemistry.

This is exactly the reason why the Jets have had so many 7-9, 8-8 and 9-7 seasons.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Maccagnan, yes.

Bowles, no.

Maccagnan has proven himself a good young GM with a strong eye for talent from a scout's point of view.

Bowles is mistake-prone and the way his D laid down this year was disgusting, I don't think I've seen that level of locker room dysfunction since the Kotite days.

SAR I

This.

[SAR I]

50 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i tend to agree but at the same time if extending bowles helps land a better oc and coaching staff then it should be considered.  And what's the worst thing that can happen?  if bowles gets launched with two years left woody would be out of pocket that money.  at some point he has to determine if he's doing the right thing for the team or for his pocketbook.

I like the "park Bill O'Brien" strategy.

Maccagnan convinces O'Brien to take the Jets OC job, parks him there for a year, let's him work with Hackenberg and Petty, makes him HC for the 2018 season.

Next year is a lost cause.  Point the ship towards 2018 with Hackenberg a year older, O'Brien used to New York and having good ideas on which coaches to keep, giving input on two drafts.

SAR I

[slats]

As unpopular as it would be, and as counter-intuitive that it is, this really isn't a bad idea. None of these guys ever enter the final season of their deals, so this year is shaping up as a "show me" season - which is bad news for the Jets' long term. Adding a year gives them one more to build thru the draft and develop the young players on the team, and then do the "show me" a year later. It would also make the OC opening a lot more attractive than the completely undesirable position it is today. And if they really crap the bed again, you fire them at the end of the season anyway at the cost of one more year's salary, but with a young team and a lot of cap money in reserve for the next regime. 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I like the "park Bill O'Brien" strategy.

Maccagnan convinces O'Brien to take the Jets OC job, parks him there for a year, let's him work with Hackenberg and Petty, makes him HC for the 2018 season.

Next year is a lost cause.  Point the ship towards 2018 with Hackenberg a year older, O'Brien used to New York and having good ideas on which coaches to keep, giving input on two drafts.

SAR I

 

O'Brien is probably too close to Belichick to ever work for the Jets. 

[SAR I]

22 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Based on what exactly? I'll give you he has found a little young talent in and out of the draft, but it's obvious he is in way over his head when it comes to contracts, free agency, and what positions actually matter. I think he's done a worse job than Bowles. And that's saying something. Good scout? Sure. Good GM? Each day it looks less and less likely. 

I like (most of) our draft picks, I respect how he is trying to patiently go after a franchise quarterback in a different way (best player from a non-pro system), his free agent picks were strong enough in 2015 to get us to 10 wins.  He was highly regarded by Caserly and Wolf, his peers elected him NFL Executive of the Year, that's not small potatoes.

The stink of the Bowles pick is not on him, Woody did that.  Let Maccagnan have Bowles as a fall guy in a lousy 2017 year, bring in his own guy next year.  Judge Maccagnan starting in 2018 if Petty and Hackenberg bust and if his HC choice doesn't meet expectations.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

O'Brien is probably too close to Belichick to ever work for the Jets. 

Perhaps, but he needs a job and having a GM and a QB who worship him with a lame duck head coach a moment away from being fired doesn't suck.

SAR I

[Joe W. Namath]

Mac's number 1 job when he was hired was to find a qb.  2 years later, hes come up w/ fitz, petty, hack.

Good riddence.

[JetsFanatic]

8 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Mac's number 1 job when he was hired was to find a qb.  2 years later, hes come up w/ fitz, petty, hack.

Good riddence.

His job was to rebuild a 4-12 team, it takes time.  I think he has added some nice talent and obviously a QB is the most important piece. Lets see what he does this year, and there is still a chance Hackenberg may be the guy in the long run.

[munchmemory]

Extend?  I'll agree that we extend them an invitation to leave this franchise this afternoon and hire two competent people.

[joewilly12]

Here's the only extending they should be being offered................

[Ex-Rex]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

Here is a radical concept:

2 Years ago Woody commissioned an exhaustive search to find the GM and HC to take the Jets forward.   His selections were praised, and they received four year contracts.

They were also told to competitively rebuild.  This looked like an OK idea in 2015, but a very bad idea in 2016.  Macc was Executive of the Year in 2015, and Bowles won 10 games.

2016 was marked with some very bad decisions and actions by both Mac and Bowles, but Woody decided to retain them based on the overall picture.  The conclusion of most is that a true rebuild has to happen.

So now since the job has effectively been redefined, and new assistants need to be hired for the next phase, I think the only choices are to extend them (or fire them, which they won't).  Give them an extra year to implement the rebuild.  That way they can attract better assistants and encourage Bowles and Macc to make better decisions.  This last point is important-both Macc and Bowles will be incentivized to make short-term decisions to keep their jobs.

But in a year where we elected a 70 year old President who has filled his cabinet with 70+ year old experienced people, Macc and Bowles need a Coughlin type to guide them.

WIthout that, the Jets are doomed until the team completely hits the bricks.

I believe you are totally correct. After next season Woody will have to make a decision on Bowles and Maccagnan since he wouldn't want them as "lame ducks" in the final year of their respective contracts. Already two potential candidates have backed out or been forbidden to interview. Studsville decided to stay in Denver rather than risk losing out on what he already had. I think if Woody extends each man's contract by one year it would give a better impression of stability.

[Joe W. Namath]

I say we extend them, then we kill them.

[CrazyCarl40]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I like (most of) our draft picks, I respect how he is trying to patiently go after a franchise quarterback in a different way (best player from a non-pro system), his free agent picks were strong enough in 2015 to get us to 10 wins.  He was highly regarded by Caserly and Wolf, his peers elected him NFL Executive of the Year, that's not small potatoes.

The stink of the Bowles pick is not on him, Woody did that.  Let Maccagnan have Bowles as a fall guy in a lousy 2017 year, bring in his own guy next year.  Judge Maccagnan starting in 2018 if Petty and Hackenberg bust and if his HC choice doesn't meet expectations.

SAR I

His roster construction is poor, his draft picks are overrated, and he obviously doesn't know what to do with cap space. You're reaching here. He's been bad. This roster is devoid of talent in the key areas of a team. The major question marks two years ago are still question marks. Name one unit that has gotten better since two years ago.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

His roster construction is poor, his draft picks are overrated, and he obviously doesn't know what to do with cap space. You're reaching here. He's been bad. This roster is devoid of talent in the key areas of a team. The major question marks two years ago are still question marks. Name one unit that has gotten better since two years ago.

Nothing has gotten better we may have depth at some positions but we lack talent at all positions. Macc is masquerading as a GM here and many NY fans,media agencies and Woody Johnson are dumb enough to believe his smoke and mirrors. This team was the worst in the NFL this season with no improvements in our immediate future. 

[Happy Clouds]

52 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I like the "park Bill O'Brien" strategy.

Maccagnan convinces O'Brien to take the Jets OC job, parks him there for a year, let's him work with Hackenberg and Petty, makes him HC for the 2018 season.

Next year is a lost cause.  Point the ship towards 2018 with Hackenberg a year older, O'Brien used to New York and having good ideas on which coaches to keep, giving input on two drafts.

SAR I

 I like your idea. The problem with that though, is that Bowles is the one who has final say in selecting the coaches. Would Bowles want to bring aboard someone who is an immediate threat to his own job?

Maccagnan can try to convince O'Brien to take the OC job, if by some chance he were ever made available. But, I can't see Bowles ever signing off on it.

[joewilly12]

 

mo·ron

ˈmôrˌän/

noun

informal

 

1. a stupid person.

   synonyms:

   fool, idiot, ass, blockhead, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, imbecile, cretin, dullard, simpleton, clod;

    

   

    

   id·i·ot

   ˈidēət/

   noun

   informal

    

   1. a stupid person.

      synonyms:

      fool, ass, halfwit, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, cretin, moron, imbecile, simpleton

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, PCP63 said:

Don't see what the POTUS and his staff have to do with the Jets. 

And don't see why in the hell we should keep coddling these guys and making excuses for them. Bowles' job was never redefined. He made many, many, many poor decisions. Too many to be salvaged at this point. Especially when he continued to trot Fitz out there week after week.

Mac, on the other hand, I'm on the fence, and think he should get another year. Sure, he drafted Williams, but that was an obvious pick. Took no talent or evaluation to determine he was the correct pick. Even then, he wasn't even close to our biggest need, especially with Beasley and Ray on the board (hindsight is 20/20, which is why I mentioned Ray).

Sure, he found Marshall and Anderson, but UDFAs are pretty much luck of the draw. That being said, it's rare to hit that good. We'll have to see with Mac.

We need a DC who can build a wall around opposing offenses.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Mac's number 1 job when he was hired was to find a qb.  2 years later, hes come up w/ fitz, petty, hack.

Good riddence.

It's every GM's #1 job.  A lot of that comes down to luck though (e.g. having a bad season in the year when there's a franchise QB available).  Yes, Dak was available to us but we haven't even seen him play in the post-season yet so let's not get carried away about him just yet.  Regardless, it seemed more luck than anything.  He was a 4th rounder and supposedly Dallas wanted Connor Cook (but he was taken by the Raiders). 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's every GM's #1 job.  A lot of that comes down to luck though (e.g. having a bad season in the year when there's a franchise QB available).  Yes, Dak was available to us but we haven't even seen him play in the post-season yet so let's not get carried away about him just yet.  Regardless, it seemed more luck than anything.  He was a 4th rounder and supposedly Dallas wanted Connor Cook (but he was taken by the Raiders). 

Macc carried 4 QB's on the roster none NFL worthy epic fail. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Maccagnan, yes.

Bowles, no.

Maccagnan has proven himself a good young GM with a strong eye for talent from a scout's point of view.

Bowles is mistake-prone and the way his D laid down this year was disgusting, I don't think I've seen that level of locker room dysfunction since the Kotite days.

SAR I

I'm higher on Macc than Bowles right now but I vote no on extensions for either.  I agree that, so far, Macc seems to have a decent (not great but decent) eye for talent.  I'm okay with him being our GM for another year and hopeful he can hit a home run in the draft. 

As for Bowles, it was disturbing how he (at least seemingly) lost the locker room but I'm okay with him coming back another year.  I read the Giants almost fired Parcells after he went 3-12-1 in his first year.  He said something along the lines of "after that year, I decided I was going to completely do things my way".  Maybe there is potential in Bowles that we haven't seen yet and he will grow as a coach. 

That said, if Bill O'Brien is available to us, I'd take him over Bowles without a second thought.  It's not a shot against Bowles but rather a guy with a far better (IMO) risk/reward.  The NFL is about coaching and QBs.  Many have covered this but there are certain coaches you don't pass up if you have a chance on.