Per sources, Jets could offer Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed contract. (Merged Cousins Jets $$$ thread)

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

May 17'

Johnson has made it clear that there will be no playoff mandate for general manager Mike Maccagnan and head coach Todd Bowles in their third season together.

regarding full rebuild

“If you want to go to the promised land, you have to go in a certain direction,” Johnson said. “I think this is a direction we’ve never tried in the 17 years I’ve been associated with the Jets. We’ve never gone this way.”

A 29 year old franchise QB was never staring them in the face in 17 years either. For a franchise WITHOUT a QB, I'd say it's a holy sh*t on the other hand moment.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Imagine living with this brain.

It's not hard. Replace your morning coffee with Sterno and jam a knitting needle into your ear and you're halfway there.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

It's not a glaring admission, it's just....smart. You have a good proven talented QB hitting the open market, you have no answer at QB right now, with a pile of cash. Why in the world wouldn't they go after him? 

It's quite a bit more than nothing but smart, and the over-the-top desire for Kirk Cousins at virtually any cost absolutely is a de facto admission he doesn't believe in his scouting ability. 

There’s nothing wrong with going after Cousins. I disagree with the false equivalence you make between going after him and seemingly going after him regardless of the cost, to the point of maybe a 5 year guarantee that would be the epitome of an admission of failure as a GM, and lack of belief in himself as talent evaluator.

If the only way for him to get a QB here is to just make an offer no one else would think of making, then what value is it he provides as GM? Can he count higher than all the rest? Is he singularly wise in realizing a veteran is more of a sure thing than a prospect? Everyone knows that; the question is if the cost is worth it, and if his presumed ceiling is worth yet again passing up on all other worthwhile prospects. 

His entire m-o has been taking perceived safest/surest things instead of taking the best potential difference makers available. He’s a loser, and stinks at talent evaluation. And frankly, that is the #1 justification for going after Cousins at any cost.

[Larz]

The way this story is trending,  by the end of the week the jets will be offering an ownership stake and 50% of the parking and concessions 

[Larz]

37 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's quite a bit more than nothing but smart, and the over-the-top desire for Kirk Cousins at virtually any cost absolutely is a de facto admission he doesn't believe in his scouting ability. 

There’s nothing wrong with going after Cousins. I disagree with the false equivalence you make between going after him and seemingly going after him regardless of the cost, to the point of maybe a 5 year guarantee that would be the epitome of an admission of failure as a GM, and lack of belief in himself as talent evaluator.

If the only way for him to get a QB here is to just make an offer no one else would think of making, then what value is it he provides as GM? Can he count higher than all the rest? Is he singularly wise in realizing a veteran is more of a sure thing than a prospect? Everyone knows that; the question is if the cost is worth it, and if his presumed ceiling is worth yet again passing up on all other worthwhile prospects. 

His entire m-o has been taking perceived safest/surest things instead of taking the best potential difference makers available. He’s a loser, and stinks at talent evaluation. And frankly, that is the #1 justification for going after Cousins at any cost.

Who do you think leaked this story? 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

Who do you think leaked this story? 

 

The most likely sources?

1. Lower coach/intern with access to the team’s thoughts/desires. 

2. The GM or acting owner, making an amateurish attempt to scare off competing bids. 

[Larz]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The most likely sources?

1. Lower coach/intern with access to the team’s thoughts/desires. 

2. The GM or acting owner, making an amateurish attempt to scare off competing bids. 

Lol

It's the agent 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Larz said:

Lol

It's the agent 

OK, if you say so. You’ve been right about so many things so far I’m sure you’re right about this as well.

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Does anyone think Kirk's beliefs play a role in where he chooses to play?  Or even what teams are willing to accept him?

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/51136/kirk-cousins-on-the-gay-teammate-question

Our owner ordered the GM to trade a draft pick for Tebow I’m sure him and Cousins will get along

[Larz]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK, if you say so. You’ve been right about so many things so far I’m sure you’re right about this as well.

The jets are already being used to drive up the offer for whatever he really wants to go .

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Larz said:

The jets are already being used to drive up the offer for whatever he really wants to go .

Oh

Really smart an necessary. It’s totally necessary to do this, instead of knowing the reality is that any/all interested teams are going to put in bids up to the point they’re no longer interested, and then Kirk makes his choice among the top bids from each team.

Good to know none of that matters; it’s all about make-believe Jets interest that gets his dollars up for another team. Tell us more about #theprocess. 

[Larz]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Oh

Really smart an necessary. It’s totally necessary to do this, instead of knowing the reality is that any/all interested teams are going to put in bids up to the point they’re no longer interested, and then Kirk makes his choice among the top bids from each team.

Good to know none of that matters; it’s all about make-believe Jets interest that gets his dollars up for another team. Tell us more about #theprocess. 

It shortens the process and weeds out the wannabes. 

Everybody's first offer is higher,  and they are forced to realign how high they will go before the bidding even actually begins 

This happens every off season 

My favorite agent leaks are the ones that say"player is close to signing "

It could also be total made up bullsh*t 

The jets have nothing to gain by starting at their highest offer,  the agent does 

Tell me more about the rogue intern

 

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, Larz said:

It shortens the process and weeds out the wannabes. 

Everybody's first offer is higher,  and they are forced to realign how high they will go before the bidding even actually begins 

This happens every off season 

My favorite agent leaks are the ones that say"player is close to signing "

It could also be total made up bullsh*t 

The jets have nothing to gain by starting at their highest offer,  the agent does 

Tell me more about the rogue intern

 

Lol

Some people talk. Some people like to talk. I didn’t squarely say a rogue intern, but go with that if that’s what it takes for you to score a point. 

If you belive this is going to drive up the offer, go ahead and belive it. Teams are going to offer what they feel he’s worth, and maybe if they feel they’re that close they might go over that a little at the time. All the leaking in the world isn’t going to get teams to massively overbid like that. Just like we heard the price for Decker could fetch $10m - without links to any specific team willing to pay that - then he settles with the Jets for $7m. That one’s far more likely an agent.

Nobody’s backing out and nobody’s bidding more than they have to based on any leaks in February. They’re still going to try their first offers, which won’t necessarily be their top offers, and Cousins is going to shop that number around to see who’ll one-up it, and so on. It’s not happening in February before the combine, which is the time it makes the least sense for an agent to hint the Jets are going to one-up anybody. 

It’s likely got some truth to it (as being leaked from the Jets). Whether the leak holds any truth, or whether this is an attempt by the Jets to try & scare off others, remains to be seen. The only way you’ll know if it was all by an agent is if the Jets don’t put in a serious bid. 

[Lupz27]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

Some people talk. Some people like to talk. I didn’t squarely say a rogue intern, but go with that if that’s what it takes for you to score a point. 

If you belive this is going to drive up the offer, go ahead and belive it. Teams are going to offer what they feel he’s worth, and maybe if they feel they’re that close they might go over that a little at the time. All the leaking in the world isn’t going to get teams to massively overbid like that. Just like we heard the price for Decker could fetch $10m - without links to any specific team willing to pay that - then he settles with the Jets for $7m. That one’s far more likely an agent.

Nobody’s backing out and nobody’s bidding more than they have to based on any leaks in February. They’re still going to try their first offers, which won’t necessarily be their top offers, and Cousins is going to shop that number around to see who’ll one-up it, and so on. It’s not happening in February before the combine, which is the time it makes the least sense for an agent to hint the Jets are going to one-up anybody. 

It’s likely got some truth to it (as being leaked from the Jets). Whether the leak holds any truth, or whether this is an attempt by the Jets to try & scare off others, remains to be seen. The only way you’ll know if it was all by an agent is if the Jets don’t put in a serious bid. 

The one thing that is gonna be weird is McCown, and Cousins share the same agent, McCown has made it clear he wants to come back here for one more go at it, and whatever it is he don’t care.  Now that agent knows he will get the most money for McCown from the Jets, TBH without the Jets McCown might have no other place to go, so if the money isn’t far off I see the agent steering Cousins elsewhere, obviously if the Jets outbid themselves, and offer a stupid number the agent will be like F McCown, but if they are only in the same ball park just a touch higher then others Cousins will get push to go elsewhere, one can hope anyways.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

The one thing that is gonna be weird is McCown, and Cousins share the same agent, McCown has made it clear he wants to come back here for one more go at it, and whatever it is he don’t care.  Now that agent knows he will get the most money for McCown from the Jets, TBH without the Jets McCown might have no other place to go, so if the money isn’t far off I see the agent steering Cousins elsewhere, obviously if the Jets outbid themselves, and offer a stupid number the agent will be like F McCown, but if they are only in the same ball park just a touch higher then others Cousins will get push to go elsewhere, one can hope anyways.

I think McCown would have other places to go, since he’s still a top backup, so long as he doesn’t price himself out of a job. Barring an injury to a teammate, his starting days are over. I could see a contender with trash behind their starter - particularly if that starter has injury concerns of his own - who don’t want their season to be in the toilet because the backup’s useless. Green Bay comes to mind, and maybe Arizona. 

I understand the concern with the same agent thing, but those 2 are in totally different market levels and really it should have no impact.

[Lupz27]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think McCown would have other places to go, since he’s still a top backup, so long as he doesn’t price himself out of a job. Barring an injury to a teammate, his starting days are over. I could see a contender with trash behind their starter - particularly if that starter has injury concerns of his own - who don’t want their season to be in the toilet because the backup’s useless. Green Bay comes to mind, and maybe Arizona. 

I understand the concern with the same agent thing, but those 2 are in totally different market levels and really it should have no impact.

Last season McCown has one other offer, and I have no proof of this, BUT I assume the Jets initially offered McCown something in the 2-4 million range, while the only other offer he had was for 2 million from the Browns to be their QB coach, and when he walked out of Flo Pa unsigned the Jets panicked, and upped their offer to the one he came back, and signed for.  Don’t think if the Jets get left out in the cold the agent for McCown, and Cousins doesn’t think he can get that offer to the 10 million area from the Jets after watching the Fitzpatrick fiasco.

[JoJoTownsell1]

36 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

Some people talk. Some people like to talk. I didn’t squarely say a rogue intern, but go with that if that’s what it takes for you to score a point. 

If you belive this is going to drive up the offer, go ahead and belive it. Teams are going to offer what they feel he’s worth, and maybe if they feel they’re that close they might go over that a little at the time. All the leaking in the world isn’t going to get teams to massively overbid like that. Just like we heard the price for Decker could fetch $10m - without links to any specific team willing to pay that - then he settles with the Jets for $7m. That one’s far more likely an agent.

Nobody’s backing out and nobody’s bidding more than they have to based on any leaks in February. They’re still going to try their first offers, which won’t necessarily be their top offers, and Cousins is going to shop that number around to see who’ll one-up it, and so on. It’s not happening in February before the combine, which is the time it makes the least sense for an agent to hint the Jets are going to one-up anybody. 

It’s likely got some truth to it (as being leaked from the Jets). Whether the leak holds any truth, or whether this is an attempt by the Jets to try & scare off others, remains to be seen. The only way you’ll know if it was all by an agent is if the Jets don’t put in a serious bid. 

Have any articles indicated that they got their info from Jets sources? Normally when there is a rumor like that, they would say, an unnamed Jets source has stated X or Y. All I've seen is a constant stream of rumors without named or unnamed sources from the Jets. 

Last season, the Bears signed Glennon and there wasn't a single rumor about the Bears going hard after Trubisky. Turns out, they traded up to get Trubisky. Rumors and speculation, this time of year could turn out to be truth, could turn out to be zero (Manish style fantasy) or could turn out to be lies from Agents who want their players to get big contracts or lies from teams trying to fool other teams. 

In the end, this is what makes the NFL offseason fun. No one knows for sure how this will play out. 

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Last season McCown has one other offer, and I have no proof of this, BUT I assume the Jets initially offered McCown something in the 2-4 million range, while the only other offer he had was for 2 million from the Browns to be their QB coach, and when he walked out of Flo Pa unsigned the Jets panicked, and upped their offer to the one he came back, and signed for.  Don’t think if the Jets get left out in the cold the agent for McCown, and Cousins doesn’t think he can get that offer to the 10 million area from the Jets after watching the Fitzpatrick fiasco.

I think last year the difference was the other offer was to be the backup, where the Jets were offering him a serious shot at starting. 

Nobody’s giving McCown $10m. Maybe I shouldn’t say nobody, since every year I’m amazed by some of the contracts handed out (not just by the Jets). But at his age, I don’t see it. If he’d finished the season healthy then maybe, but he didn’t and it’d still be a longshot.

There are just too many new QB opportunities out there for some team to think they’re painted into a corner and have to go with McCown as their starter. 5+ 1st round QBs, 3+ veteran FAs (not counting 2 teams - Washington & SF - already filled their QB holes).

I don’t see a reason anyone would offer McCown $10m. Quite possibly he won’t get half that. JMO

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Have any articles indicated that they got their info from Jets sources? Normally when there is a rumor like that, they would say, an unnamed Jets source has stated X or Y. All I've seen is a constant stream of rumors without named or unnamed sources from the Jets. 

Last season, the Bears signed Glennon and there wasn't a single rumor about the Bears going hard after Trubisky. Turns out, they traded up to get Trubisky. Rumors and speculation, this time of year could turn out to be truth, could turn out to be zero (Manish style fantasy) or could turn out to be lies from Agents who want their players to get big contracts or lies from teams trying to fool other teams. 

In the end, this is what makes the NFL offseason fun. No one knows for sure how this will play out. 

I fail to see how that matters. The incidence of named sources, in discussing future team interest, always hovers around 0% for every rumor. Especially while a player - like Cousins - belongs to another team and such team-attributed comments would constitute tampering. 

I also don’t see what the Bears’ situation last year has to do with another team this year. Two different teams with two different GMs and two different staffs in two different situations. Especially since the Bears’ actions with regard to Trubisky was unusual to say the least. But showing interest before the draft isn’t the same as showing interest with an upcoming FA, since teams don’t know who they’ll have opportunities to acquire in the draft; in FA everyone has equal opportunity. So it’s different. 

All agents want big contracts for all their players. The ones that sound more like planted agent leaks are the ones that don’t link interest of any team in particular, but do suggest the going rate for the player (I brought up Decker’s upcoming availability, back when we signed him). 

It’s hardly a rarity, when a team is rumored to have interest in a player, that we find out that’s the case. How often, in the prior 3 offseasons, did you hear the Jets were really hot for a FA and they ulimately showed no interest and didn’t so much as meet with the player if available? 

It appears that 2 teams have the most interest, and they’re doing their own different ways of showing interest without tampering. One is at least not-discouraging solicitations from players, and the other could be using leaks from sauces (unnamed, but again, they’re always unnamed). No I don’t know for sure, but that doesn’t therefore make agent lies - which fool nobody once real bidding begins - the most likely source.

Lastly, I didn’t say it wasn’t fun to follow or speculate. I agree it is, which is why we’re all commenting now, and yes it’ll then be fun to see how it plays out. The Jets won’t be sitting on their hands after another 5-11 season with all this $$$ to spend. Hopefully they spend it wisely; they certainly haven’t in some time.

[Larz]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol

Some people talk. Some people like to talk. I didn’t squarely say a rogue intern, but go with that if that’s what it takes for you to score a point. 

If you belive this is going to drive up the offer, go ahead and belive it. Teams are going to offer what they feel he’s worth, and maybe if they feel they’re that close they might go over that a little at the time. All the leaking in the world isn’t going to get teams to massively overbid like that. Just like we heard the price for Decker could fetch $10m - without links to any specific team willing to pay that - then he settles with the Jets for $7m. That one’s far more likely an agent.

Nobody’s backing out and nobody’s bidding more than they have to based on any leaks in February. They’re still going to try their first offers, which won’t necessarily be their top offers, and Cousins is going to shop that number around to see who’ll one-up it, and so on. It’s not happening in February before the combine, which is the time it makes the least sense for an agent to hint the Jets are going to one-up anybody. 

It’s likely got some truth to it (as being leaked from the Jets). Whether the leak holds any truth, or whether this is an attempt by the Jets to try & scare off others, remains to be seen. The only way you’ll know if it was all by an agent is if the Jets don’t put in a serious bid. 

Isn't that tampering? 

That seems a little risky. 

Sometimes your beef with maccagnan seems personal 

[Bugg]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's quite a bit more than nothing but smart, and the over-the-top desire for Kirk Cousins at virtually any cost absolutely is a de facto admission he doesn't believe in his scouting ability. 

There’s nothing wrong with going after Cousins. I disagree with the false equivalence you make between going after him and seemingly going after him regardless of the cost, to the point of maybe a 5 year guarantee that would be the epitome of an admission of failure as a GM, and lack of belief in himself as talent evaluator.

If the only way for him to get a QB here is to just make an offer no one else would think of making, then what value is it he provides as GM? Can he count higher than all the rest? Is he singularly wise in realizing a veteran is more of a sure thing than a prospect? Everyone knows that; the question is if the cost is worth it, and if his presumed ceiling is worth yet again passing up on all other worthwhile prospects. 

His entire m-o has been taking perceived safest/surest things instead of taking the best potential difference makers available. He’s a loser, and stinks at talent evaluation. And frankly, that is the #1 justification for going after Cousins at any cost.

The Cousins signing, were it to happen, would be an admission that nobody in the Jets organization trusts the talent evaluation to pick the right QB going on 5 years, nor develop him if they did draft such a player. Babble about BAP all you want, taking a safety last year with 2 QBs and a solid edge at least still on the board was criminal.They don't trust anyone at Florham Park to get it right this year either.  Basically it's a giant white flag giving up the ghost that Maccagnan and Bowles are both terrible at their jobs.

In a well-run organization they would not be here.

And if the do take the plunge on Cousins, know you then have a 2-3 year window before his insane cap number makes fielding a  decent team highly unlikely. If you take a young QB and develop him, you at least get a few cheap years to fill other holes.Plus if he is that good, you now have a long term franchise QB who is your partner for a decade or so.  That's not an option with Cousins. 

[bla bla bla]

I would like Cousins but I hope we are just being used to drive up the Broncos price or so Kirk can get an extra year guaranteed from them. I think it would be a mistake if we were outbid but would be fine if Kirk picked another team. I love the idea lf going with a rookie but I understand the very small chance that any of these rookies will live up to what Kirk has already done. It's more about the pure excitement and youth of the rookie that I find fun.

[BCJet]

10 hours ago, Larz said:

Who do you think leaked this story? 

 

Why does it have to be a leaked story?

Have you glanced at any "articles" or social media the last 3 years, especially with the Jets beat guys?  You can make up whatever you want to get clicks, use the words "anonymous sources" and hit publish.  Not only that, but you can do what a lot of posters here do and put together a narrative that fits a prior opinion of yours and have your own article back up your previous opinion, all with no facts whatsoever.

There are guys like Bill Polian spewing nonsense all over the TV and internet in an attempt to stay relevant and keep cashing checks from ESPN or NFL Network.  Polian actually went so far as to call Lamar Jackson "short" when he is 6'3 - and all of a sudden we should take this article about what we are gonna offer Cousins as gospel and actually claim to have knowledge of who leaked it?  

As for what we should or shouldnt offer cousins, the salary cap in 2018 is significantly less relevant then it was prior to the rookie cap.  There are simply not enough players for us to pay, unless we want to go the Buster Skrine route and pay marginal players as good players and hope some of them outperform their contracts, which rarely happens.  Instead, we can "overpay" (which is subjective) a QB who we know cares about football, puts in the work, is proven on the field, and then use the draft to fill in other spots at lower prices and reduce the risk of paying FAs who mail it in once they get paid.

 

[Augustiniak]

FWIW Boomer Esiason said today on his radio show that based on what he's heard from his sources, Cousins to the Jets is a 'done deal'

[ChuckkieB]

2 hours ago, Bugg said:

The Cousins signing, were it to happen, would be an admission that nobody in the Jets organization trusts the talent evaluation to pick the right QB going on 5 years, nor develop him if they did draft such a player. Babble about BAP all you want, taking a safety last year with 2 QBs and a solid edge at least still on the board was criminal.They don't trust anyone at Florham Park to get it right this year either.  Basically it's a giant white flag giving up the ghost that Maccagnan and Bowles are both terrible at their jobs.

In a well-run organization they would not be here.

 

Spot on.  Couldn't agree more.  It's crazy to think that ownership would let the clowns that put us in this position of desperation in the first place throw a ridiculous amount of money at the QB problem to make it go away for only a few years instead of hiring capable people that could actually build a team to achieve sustained success.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

FWIW Boomer Esiason said today on his radio show that based on what he's heard from his sources, Cousins to the Jets is a 'done deal'

Obviously Esiason is just another shill acting on behalf of Cousins and his agent, spreading lies to get Denver to up their offer. I was lol'ed yesterday for thinking otherwise, so it must be true. 

[Paradis]

18 hours ago, Warfish said:

Why would you "much rather" draft a QB, specially?  What are the advantages of that decision, as you see it?  Clearly "cap savings" is one.

Do you think the draft pick at #6 will be better than/equal to Cousins over the next five years?

Do you think we need to trade up and pick #1/#2 and that THAT draft pick will be better than/equal to Cousins over the next five years?

I think most are concerned about the price of a Cousins investment.  However, I think most also see that we are extremely cap flush, especially in 2018, and posses the flexibility to create a contract that exploits this advantage without hamstringing the franchise in 2021, 2022, etc.

As for "60 million a year" and "fully guaranteed", I would again remind that these are New York Sports "Media" reporting, i.e. they are source-free speculation designed to drive website hits and sell newspapers and otherwise inspire reaction, reaction that helps profit the "media" agency.

As I said, till we see an actual offer from an actual Jets Franchise employee, I would not put ANY weight behind these reports.

I'm having trouble understanding the "4 First Round Picks" cost.  Signing Cousins will cost ~30 mil a year for 4-6 years.  Cap wise, likely more up front, less in the future when we'll have less space available (i.e. front loaded).

Where is this four first rounder cost you're seeing?  

I don't think we'll get even 50% of reasonably predictable Cousins performance from any of this cycles picks at #6 in years one or two, and likely not for any of the five year period.

I personally do not think either Rosen nor Darnold will ever be a top 10-12 NFL QB.  Darnold is IMO simply the next overhyped USC sunshine surfer boy to bust at the pro level.  Rosen will be making too many political statements planning his future running for the Senate to make the NFL his priority.  Allen simply isn't that good.  Mayfield......too risky.  20% chance he's Drew Brees, 80% chance he's all hot air, little pro performance.

Hyperbole to some degree, but not by much.  I think it likely that three of these four will disappoint at the pro level and never reach Top 10 status.  I simply can't say with any certainty which one will surprise and make it.  And frankly, I don't trust Macc to know either.

More importantly, I reject the loss of starter-level assets that a trade up would cost us.  I will not trade a starting Guard, RB and WR to move up for Sam f'in Darnold, the 2nd Comming of Mark "Boy Does He Look Great in that Magazine Article" Sanchez.

I may not like it, as I almost always favor the draft route.....but Cousins is by far the least risky choice for this franchise to make.  The one most likely to return us to postseason contention the fastest.  The one with the least likely chance to bust.  He is the conservative choice, despite his high salary cap cost.  And he retains all those picks to build around him.

If not him, I stand pat, draft BAP QB if one falls to us at #6, I refuse to trade up and sell off three other starters for Darnold/Rosen.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, it won't be proven till well into the future, because neither Rosen nor Darnold have shown themselves to-date to be worth 2 #1's and 2 #2's it would take us to get them.

Aren't we all my friend.

Gotta get to work here, so quickly--

I see success in multiple draft-QBs this year. In fact, the only one I don't believe in is Josh Allen. So, if you entertain that headspace, then it makes sense to value drafting one instead. I don't see the NYJ turning their culture/luck/ways around by shoehorning a FA QB like Cousins into the fold. I just don't. I don't need to explain that any deeper than it's a bandaide for a franchise that has become morose and downtrodden. To turn our team into a respectable, perennial winner, it's going to happen through the draft, through player development. Ps. I hate our coaching staff presently. 

Secondly, the 4 first round picks isn't a direct translatable commodity to salary cap, yes i was exaggerating, but not by much. You have 2 ways to address needs and build a roster. You spend the kind of money Kirk commands, that's money that could be used elsewhere to fill needs in FA/extensions. Just like trading away early picks in the draft for years to come. This isn't a complicated analogy, so don't make it one.

 

This part makes me scratch my head:

If not him, I stand pat, draft BAP QB if one falls to us at #6, I refuse to trade up and sell off three other starters for Darnold/Rosen.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, it won't be proven till well into the future, because neither Rosen nor Darnold have shown themselves to-date to be worth 2 #1's and 2 #2's it would take us to get them.

 

Yes, they are worth it. They're always worth it. Who are you waiting for? Andrew Luck? You've said yourself if i'm not mistaken, that you don't watch a lot of college ball. Don't let some BS narratives, highlights and couple bad games sway you that much. There's very very very very good reasons why these guys are all going to go in the top 5... and we better god damn well move up to be a part of it. Staying pat is not option. Absolutely NOT an option.  

 

 

[Bugg]

58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Obviously Esiason is just another shill acting on behalf of Cousins and his agent, spreading lies to get Denver to up their offer. I was lol'ed yesterday for thinking otherwise, so it must be true. 

It may be true. But if not costs Esiason nothing if he his wrong and he has 4 hours of radio to fill every weekday morning. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

Gotta get to work here, so quickly--

Appreciate that you took the time.

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I see success in multiple draft-QBs this year. In fact, the only one I don't believe in is Josh Allen. So, if you entertain that headspace, then it makes sense to value drafting one instead.

Ah, I see where some of our fundamental disagreement then lies.  If you think Darnold, Rosen, or others will be Top 10 Franchise QB's within say, a year of their being drafted, I can understand a preference to drafting (I don't agree this will happen, obviously).

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I don't see the NYJ turning their culture/luck/ways around by shoehorning a FA QB like Cousins into the fold. I just don't. I don't need to explain that any deeper than it's a bandaide for a franchise that has become morose and downtrodden. To turn our team into a respectable, perennial winner, it's going to happen through the draft, through player development.

I don't see the difference between "showhorning in a FA veteran" and "shoehorning in a greehorn rookie freshfaced from being big fish in small pond to being the hope and dreams of a beleagured franchise" tbqh.  If anything, the Vet has already faced down that pressure and survived to BE a big $$ FA, the rookie....well, they had fun at being BMOC at college so far.

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Ps. I hate our coaching staff presently. 

Agreed.  I'm on record I would have fired the staff after last offseason.

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Secondly, the 4 first round picks isn't a direct translatable commodity to salary cap, yes i was exaggerating, but not by much. You have 2 ways to address needs and build a roster. You spend the kind of money Kirk commands, that's money that could be used elsewhere to fill needs in FA/extensions. Just like trading away early picks in the draft for years to come. This isn't a complicated analogy, so don't make it one.

I still don;t see the loss you're seeing.  Our options:

A. Sign Cousins, sign multiple FA's, draft 1st round, 2 2nd Round, + rest of draft

B. Draft a QB #1 (with a trade up likely required), draft a few late round camp fodder picks after you lose your #1 and both #2's, sign multiple FA's.

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This part makes me scratch my head:

If not him, I stand pat, draft BAP QB if one falls to us at #6, I refuse to trade up and sell off three other starters for Darnold/Rosen.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, it won't be proven till well into the future, because neither Rosen nor Darnold have shown themselves to-date to be worth 2 #1's and 2 #2's it would take us to get them.

Yes, they are worth it. They're always worth it. Who are you waiting for? Andrew Luck?

Well, I'd have been quite happy with Deshaun Watson, if you recall.  I think Watson is and was materially superior prospect to any of these top 4 2018 prospects.  Darnold is a USC bust-to-be, USC QB's simply do not succed at the pro level and haven't since Carson Palmer.  Rosen isn't focused enough and is seriously injury risk.  Mayfield is a 20% success/80% failure longshot at the pro level.  Allen, yeah, no.  I'm simply not spending two #1's and two #2's to get these guys.  Not with this roster, we need the players more than longshot QB prospects.

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You've said yourself if i'm not mistaken, that you don't watch a lot of college ball. Don't let some BS narratives, highlights and couple bad games sway you that much. There's very very very very good reasons why these guys are all going to go in the top 5... and we better god damn well move up to be a part of it. Staying pat is not option. Absolutely NOT an option.  

Well, I respect your view, but fundamentally disagree.  Trading up, given the likely cost, is a suicidal move for an underwhelming prospect class.  It removes assets (likely three of them this year at least) than should be starting players, and replaces them with a single QB we'd be tied to for five years, better or worse, and I predict worse if it's Darnold or Rosen.

Signing Cousins is high (but market value) cost, low risk.  He is a proven Top 10 QB, a 4,000 yard QB right now, no waiting needed.  It saves #6 and both 2nd Rounders to build around him AND still leaves us with plenty of FA dollars to spend on what limited appropriate FA's will shake loose and actually hit the market.

I'll stress again, had the Jets done what I wanted, we'd have Deshaun Watson and Connor Cook as our #1/#2 QB's this year, Mangold would still e our Center, and our Head Coach would not be Bowles.  Take of that what you will, lol.

[dcJet]

7 hours ago, Bugg said:

The Cousins signing, were it to happen, would be an admission that nobody in the Jets organization trusts the talent evaluation to pick the right QB going on 5 years, nor develop him if they did draft such a player. Babble about BAP all you want, taking a safety last year with 2 QBs and a solid edge at least still on the board was criminal.They don't trust anyone at Florham Park to get it right this year either.  Basically it's a giant white flag giving up the ghost that Maccagnan and Bowles are both terrible at their jobs.

In a well-run organization they would not be here.

And if the do take the plunge on Cousins, know you then have a 2-3 year window before his insane cap number makes fielding a  decent team highly unlikely. If you take a young QB and develop him, you at least get a few cheap years to fill other holes.Plus if he is that good, you now have a long term franchise QB who is your partner for a decade or so.  That's not an option with Cousins. 

Not true.  Not picking a QB is an evaluation of that QB.  Mac passed on Lynch, Watson and Mahomes so far.  

And development?  Gimme a break.  Petty and Hack are Geno are un-develop-able.  

[dcJet]

Question for you guys... how does the bidding process go for a top player?   

Say the Jets bid high for Cousins and his agent says I have a higher bid from Cleveland.   How do the Jets know that the agent isn't telling a lie?  Is it ethics that keeps the bidding honest?
 

[dcJet]

Did some research on my question.  This was interesting.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/07/league-reminds-teams-of-rules-for-three-day-negotiating-period/

 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, dcJet said:

Question for you guys... how does the bidding process go for a top player?   

Say the Jets bid high for Cousins and his agent says I have a higher bid from Cleveland.   How do the Jets know that the agent isn't telling a lie?  Is it ethics that keeps the bidding honest?
 

That's the agent's job.  To make you bid against other teams and then against your self.

The GM's job is to not do that.

[SMC]

18 hours ago, Larz said:

Lol

It's the agent 

Note, it could also be the Jets.  Because of the tampering rules the Jets can't yet negotiate with Cousins camp.  Yes, an agent would want to increase demand but a team might want to make it unequivocal to a player in demand that they'll do anything to get him.

All players are a bit narcissistic. They want to be loved and appreciated by teams and one way they believe that is through money. If Cousins is open to the Jets (and by all reports he is) then knowing that the Jets will break the bank for him gives him extra incentive to consider them. 

[SMC]

4 minutes ago, chirorob said:

That's the agent's job.  To make you bid against other teams and then against your self.

The GM's job is to not do that.

But also note there's a bit of an unwritten rule here.  The agent wants the highest offer, but doesn't want to burn bridges with teams. He also doesn't want to bluff his way out of a deal because he'll get a bad rep quick among players. 

So an agent isn't going to going to make crazy statements in his negotiate with teams.  He'll stretch, but will stay in the ballpark. It's a matter of self preservation.