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12 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Your point is taken.  But mine is getting lost.  QB is the most important position in all of sport.  After 50 years of crap... how can anybody justify trading a player that is demonstrating the potential to be a franchise player for a 2nd or 3rd round pick?   The odds of hitting a decent player in those rounds nowhere near justifies it.  Not even close.

I also don't appreciate having a post being labeled as "mind-numbingly stupid."  I know I am one of the more intelligent posters on the board.   However, I do the same thing to others... so I suppose if I dish it out... I also have to take it.  ;)

So, yes, he looked good and your point isn't lost. However:

- He's coming off a two season injury.

- Darnold is here and he isn't going anywhere.

- You may think he's worth a lot other teams may not and if they don't offer a one than you can't get a one. If you can get a 2 or even a 3 for a guy you just signed as a FA, because you're going to lose him at the end of the season regardless, you take it and run. You want to hold on to him till the trade deadline hoping a QB gets hurt and a team becomes desperate I'm fine with that too. But he's gone at he end of this year he isn't taking a backup deal.

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18 minutes ago, deucebag said:

Realistically - who would want Teddy? Barring an injury. the only potential teams are Kansas City, Jacksonville and Miami.  I am not trading him within the division so that leaves KC and Jax.  At this juncture the best you'll get is a conditional pick  - you have to ponder whether its worth it to give him away like that. 

Is there a rush to start Darnold right away?  This team is simply not good enough to make the playoffs as constructed as well as considering the schedule.  3 games in the first 10 days of the season! 3 of the first 4 on the road!  Then after playing on the road against Jax we come home to seeing Chubb and Miller flying towards the pocket, followed by Indy, Minn and on the road against Chicago and their pass rush?  Logic tells you not to start Darnold just for the sake of his physical well being!

 

No matter who starts at QB, after the first 8 games - at best we are 4-4. Keep Darnold on the bench until at least week 9.

NO Not happening.

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7 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Considering a "great" offer is one thing.

Accepting a lousy 3rd round pick... or even a 2nd... is not worth trading a potential franchise QB when the Jets can't be sure whether Teddy or Sam is the answer until they see some regular season action.

Trading Bridge for a Devin Smith or a Hackenberg, or an Amaro, or a Stephen Hill...etc.  IS JUST F*CKING STUPIDITY!  Tell another team to stick the 2nd round pick up their a$$.

The Jets have plenty of cap space in 2019 to figure something out to buy more time if necessary.  Pun intended.

Plenty of people have already responded, but I can't help myself...

Unless you think the Jets are a legitimate Super Bowl contender this year the maximum value that Teddy Bridgewater can bring to the team is whatever the Jets can get for him in a trade. This team has already hitched its wagon to Sam Darnold. They don't have to wait until they see anyone in the regular season to make that decision. And Bridgewater isn't resigning to be his backup if he thinks he has the opportunity to start somewhere else. 

I'm glad Teddy looked good last night. It potentially raises his trade value. And against your argument that he could possibly be retained, it also raises the probability that teams will be interested in him as a starter in FA next year. 

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8 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Well, to be fair, not many guys have Darnold's talent and upside.  He could be Tony Romo or Aaron Rodgers.  Bridgewater doesn't have that kind of upside.  

That said, Bridgewater is better than Blake Bortles.  He's smart, accurate and still moves around pretty well.  Maybe you trade him for Dante Fowler, who, I think, breaks out this year.

Last I saw Fowler was injured and not playing

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Plenty of people have already responded, but I can't help myself...

Unless you think the Jets are a legitimate Super Bowl contender this year the maximum value that Teddy Bridgewater can bring to the team is whatever the Jets can get for him in a trade. This team has already hitched its wagon to Sam Darnold. They don't have to wait until they see anyone in the regular season to make that decision. And Bridgewater isn't resigning to be his backup if he thinks he has the opportunity to start somewhere else. 

I'm glad Teddy looked good last night. It potentially raises his trade value. And against your argument that he could possibly be retained, it also raises the probability that teams will be interested in him as a starter in FA next year. 

 

Its hard to think of the Jets as smart or calculating but could Bowles be saying he won’t pick a starter until after the fourth preseason game trying to increase Teddy’s value?   A potential starter might be worth more than a beaten out back up.   I have no doubt that MacCagnan is considering exactly when and for what he would trade Bridgewater- it’s just so obvious that he is going to be an “ extra part”.

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The market is not up to us.  We need two things to happen in order for the asking price for Bridgewater to go up.  Teddy needs to play well (he did that last night) and a contending team needs to have a QB go down which obviously has not happened yet.

Personally I do not see the benefit of trading him just to trade him. If for example a contending team is looking for better depth on their own roster and offers us a 4th or 5th for him then at that price the depth he provides to the Jets is worth more.

So, Teddy is keeping his part of the bargain as of last night and the other thing may or may not happen.  It is out of our hands.

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Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter)

8/12/18, 7:21 PM

Jaguars also suspended Dante Fowler for one week for fighting and violation of team rules, per team official. So no Dante Fowler and no Jalen Ramsey for the next week. Both suspended.

 

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On 8/11/2018 at 7:45 AM, Bowles Movement said:

 

Its hard to think of the Jets as smart or calculating but could Bowles be saying he won’t pick a starter until after the fourth preseason game trying to increase Teddy’s value?   A potential starter might be worth more than a beaten out back up.   I have no doubt that MacCagnan is considering exactly when and for what he would trade Bridgewater- it’s just so obvious that he is going to be an “ extra part”.

I see where you’re going but teams know if Teddy is on the block he isn’t the starter. Good idea though 

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11 minutes ago, jgb said:

I see where you’re going but teams know if Teddy is on the block he isn’t the starter. Good idea though 

I don’t see the Jets calling teams, it would make them appear desperate to deal and weaken their hand.   If they continue the “ competition” as if they are considering him to start the season they can and wait and see who calls them.  In that scenario they haven’t made it clear they don’t need him and can negotiate a better deal

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1 hour ago, Bowles Movement said:

I don’t see the Jets calling teams, it would make them appear desperate to deal and weaken their hand.   If they continue the “ competition” as if they are considering him to start the season they can and wait and see who calls them.  In that scenario they haven’t made it clear they don’t need him and can negotiate a better deal

If a starting QB goes down, the team will call. Everyone will already recognize they are desperate.

I guess what I am saying is that gamesmanship in such matters is overrated. There are only 32 teams and everyone knows everyone else's situation.

Edit: sorry, misread your reply. Thought you said other teams won't call the Jets. I still think the 2nd paragraph applies even to the Jets calling potential suitors. Bridgewater being available isn't even a poorly-kept secret: it's common knowledge. But it's more likely the other team comes calling so we agree there.

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On 8/10/2018 at 10:21 PM, Obrien2Toon said:

Darnold looked good

Bridgewater looked great

Bridgewater looked really really good. He’s obviously more seasoned than Darnold so it’s not surprising. It would be great to keep Teddy as the backup to Darnold next year but he wont stick around for that role. McClown, more than likely, will retire - or should - after this year. So Teddy 100% walks next year. So, it would benefit us to trade him before it’s to late and we get zippo. 

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10 hours ago, neckdemon said:

the problem is.....who do we trade bridgewater to?

there aren't too many teams to trade him to

Until or unless a QB from a contending team goes down then there is no trade partner.  Any team who might be interested in him now as an upgrade at backup QB would not be willing to pay us more than he is worth to have him here with us for a year.

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On 8/10/2018 at 9:42 PM, shuler82 said:

I’ll play.

 

you can keep Bridgewater and start him. Let’s say he’s a top 20 qb. Now he’s worth 18-20M. Do the Jets pay him with Darnold waiting in the wings? No, they do not. So he walks.

 

or you can keep him and start McCown or Darnold. He doesn’t play.and in 2019 he leaves.

so why should we keep him again?

 

 

What's interesting about this post is you don't actually make an argument for why we should get ride of him.

If Bridge is a "Top 20" QB and is starting at least part of 2018, that's of value.  Darnold gets time to not be rushed if not ready, and learn a wee bit at least by watching.  

If Bridge is a backup behind Darnold, and doesn't play, great!  Darnold stayed healthy and played well and risk was mitigated.  Value.

If Bridge is a backup behind Darnold, and Darnold gets hurt or plays horribly, and Bridge has to play, value.

All good things if winning matters to you.

If we trade Bridge to be someone else's backup.....we get what, a 6th round pick in the real world?  Value, sure, but weighed against the value above I (personally) find it wanting.  

We also don't know that Bridge wouldn't be willing to resign (it IS doubtful, I admit).  

If someone is crazy enough or desperate enough to offer us a #1 or #2, ok, it has to be considered certainly (value!).  But we sure as sh*t better get another QB prospect in here behind Darnold because Coach McCown must never see an NFL field again wearing Jets green.  He has no value playing and no future playing as is the clear-cut worst QB on our roster today.

We trade Bridge, we're almost assuredly investing a pick next year in his future backup after McCown goes into coaching.

Trade Bridge for a #2, find another prospect in the castoff pile, fine, I can live with that. 

Keep Bridge, stat him a few games (hopefully winning them) till Darnold is truly ready to take over, I can live with that.

Trading him for a 6th.....well, I don't favor that, but I know many here do because they do not want competition against Darnold, IMO they want Darnold anointed with Holy Oils as the Savior.  I prefer to see him earn that title first.

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3 hours ago, EM31 said:

Until or unless a QB from a contending team goes down then there is no trade partner.  Any team who might be interested in him now as an upgrade at backup QB would not be willing to pay us more than he is worth to have him here with us for a year.

Depends on what you think he's worth vs. what the team can get. If the Jets can get a fourth rounder (that would be my minimum) or, say, an OL who could potentially start for the team from a team that wants him as their backup or maybe to compete with their underwhelming starter, that would be worth it to me. Plus, the Jets add another $5.5M in cap space. Teddy maintains his level of play from Friday and stays healthy thru the preseason, he's going to get some kind of starting shot somewhere next year even if he doesn't play a down in the regular season, and the Jets will get nothing in return. 

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Trading him for a 6th.....well, I don't favor that, but I know many here do because they do not want competition against Darnold, IMO they want Darnold anointed with Holy Oils as the Savior.  I prefer to see him earn that title first.

The "many" who favor trading him for a sixth-round pick are the strawmen that forever live in your mind to help prop up your weak arguments. No one who actually posts here has made such a proposal. 

It's not about wanting a competition or wanting him to earn it by whatever parameters you, personally, feel he should pass, it's much more about what's obviously going on at One Jets Drive - that the team is doing absolutely everything they can to prepare Darnold to be the starter and that Teddy Bridgewater is an afterthought. That's the reality of the situation in which people who would like to see Teddy win the job -or have a chance to win the job- are failing to see. Darnold is being prepared to start and Bridgewater is being showcased. That's what's happening. 

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49 minutes ago, slats said:

Depends on what you think he's worth vs. what the team can get. If the Jets can get a fourth rounder (that would be my minimum) or, say, an OL who could potentially start for the team from a team that wants him as their backup or maybe to compete with their underwhelming starter, that would be worth it to me. Plus, the Jets add another $5.5M in cap space. Teddy maintains his level of play from Friday and stays healthy thru the preseason, he's going to get some kind of starting shot somewhere next year even if he doesn't play a down in the regular season, and the Jets will get nothing in return. 

I believe our OLine is porous enough to where you might be legitimately worried about the health of the QB that this franchise has staked so much on  To my mind Teddy Bridgewater is another layer of protection for Sam Darnold and $5.5 million is peanuts to pay for such a policy.

At this point I will stick with idea that he is worth more to us in that role than the marginal value that a 4th would bring us.  My break even point is a 2nd or a solid OLine upgrade who can be plugged in right away.  Like most conversations of this kind, draft day trades for example, there are way more conversations about them than there are deals that actually get consummated.  I expect this will be another one of those.

In any event, the market changes substantially if a QB for a contending team goes down and if that team sees Teddy as a means to keep their 2018 season alive.  At that point the asking price goes up to where I would consider a trade.  Otherwise Teddy is a cheap insurance policy against any one of a number of problematic things.

 

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14 minutes ago, EM31 said:

I believe out OLine is porous enough to where you might be legitimately worried about the health of the QB that this franchise has staked so much on  To my mind Teddy Bridgewater is another layer of protection for Sam Darnold and $5.5 million is peanuts to pay for such a policy.

I don't see how Bridgewater is another layer of protection for Sam unless you plan on starting him - and I definitely don't believe that's what the Jets are planning. And I don't see the value in an additional one-year quality backup when Josh McCown can fill that role, himself. 

For me, it's between getting something for him or getting nothing. Those are my choices. I'd rather get something. 

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On 8/10/2018 at 11:57 PM, Lupz27 said:

Regarding Bridgewater IF Brees shows his age this season the Saints have a team option, and can let him walk with no cap hit, and Bridgewater would be a perfect fit for Sean Payton, and the Saints they wouldn’t miss much of a beat IMO, I could definitely see Bridgewater the starting QB for New Orleans next season.  I have no interest in wishing injury on any player, BUT IF something happened to Brees early the Saints have a roster ready to win a Super Bowl, and the Saints have a history of not being afraid to trade away future draft capital if it’s what they feel is needed to win, and they would probably pay the most in this kind of situation, probably a conditional 3rd that could become a 1st if Saints won Super Bowl, and/or 2nd should TBW take 75% of the offensive snaps, make playoffs, pro bowl type conditions.

So just to be clear, you think Teddy Bridgewater is right now as good as Drew Brees, and is a possible Super Bowl winning QB...

...and you support trading him.

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So just to be clear, you think Teddy Bridgewater is right now as good as Drew Brees, and is a possible Super Bowl winning QB...

...and you support trading him.

If Darnold is the starting QB for the next 10-15 years and Bridgewater is a FA after this season, why would we not trade him?

What would be your plan for Teddy? Hang on to him as our backup/3rd string all year? Franchise him after the year because we have zero reason to give him the long term contract he would want. Even if you think we can just franchise him, that would be a 23 million cap hit for a backup. 

Once the front office is confident that Darnold is ready to be a starting NFL QB, they have to trade him. Granted, I am not trading him for a 6th round pick. But if a team offers us a 2nd or even a 3rd, I think it would be foolish not to trade him. 

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30 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If Darnold is the starting QB for the next 10-15 years and Bridgewater is a FA after this season, why would we not trade him?

What would be your plan for Teddy? Hang on to him as our backup/3rd string all year? Franchise him after the year because we have zero reason to give him the long term contract he would want. Even if you think we can just franchise him, that would be a 23 million cap hit for a backup. 

Once the front office is confident that Darnold is ready to be a starting NFL QB, they have to trade him. Granted, I am not trading him for a 6th round pick. But if a team offers us a 2nd or even a 3rd, I think it would be foolish not to trade him. 

Forum crashed on me due to advert spam and ate my post.

So TLDR Version:  

My plan is what it has always been. 

--Start TB Week 1 if he is materially the best QB on the roster. 

--When/if Darnold is better, replace TB with Darnold.  TB is our backup in case injury.

Try and win games every week. 

Worry about next off-season after THIS Season is over, alot can change in a year.

In the unlikely circumstances where TB lights up the NFL, wins 12+ games and throws for 4,500 yards, yes, I franchise him for another year.

Otherwise, best of luck to him.

If someone offers us a #1 or #2, I consider trading him now.  But no one will (IMO).

 

 

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On 8/11/2018 at 5:59 AM, slats said:

Plenty of people have already responded, but I can't help myself...

Unless you think the Jets are a legitimate Super Bowl contender this year the maximum value that Teddy Bridgewater can bring to the team is whatever the Jets can get for him in a trade. This team has already hitched its wagon to Sam Darnold. They don't have to wait until they see anyone in the regular season to make that decision. And Bridgewater isn't resigning to be his backup if he thinks he has the opportunity to start somewhere else. 

I'm glad Teddy looked good last night. It potentially raises his trade value. And against your argument that he could possibly be retained, it also raises the probability that teams will be interested in him as a starter in FA next year. 

This.

I don't see how this is a contradictory position to take than the OP. We have 2 good young QBs on the roster. It's also true that the Jets are all-in on one of them, unless he shows he is or looks like massive bust this year (and he already doesn't), or unless he suffers a Bridgewater-like injury. In theory they could the go RGIII/Kirk Cousins route, but in practical terms they cannot; unlike Cousins, the Jets don't control Bridgewater for 4 seasons. 

It's good we have 2 of them. One of them sticks and the other should be traded, but it's great that the latter looks good because it means he'll be worth more in trade.

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Hard to know what to trade him for this summer. On or just prior to October 30th I generally agree with most, which is whatever's the top offer is what we take (or at least if it's a 4th rounder or better).

However if there are no significant QB injuries on contender teams, or there aren't teams that decide in the next 3-4 weeks that their QB of the future isn't their QB of the future, what to do if the offer is only a 5th or 6th rounder and we don't look like a contender ourselves?

Typically one could find a trade partner, even for a good backup-with-promise for that compensation midseason because there are enough contenders with banged-up starters who don't want to get knocked out of contention because said starter needed a couple weeks on the DL in December. Never mind the glaring example of the most recent Super Bowl champs showing how valuable it was to have Nick Foles instead of a mid-round rookie as the #2. The problem is they only get to rent him for half a season before he becomes a UFA, so unless there's a current starter injury (from someone who doesn't want to put its current #2 on the field) it might be tough to get enough for him.

Complicating the decision is that a healthy Teddy would surely qualify as a compensatory pick level "loss" in the absence of an offsetting acquisition, so a 6th/7th rounder at the trade deadline isn't better than nothing; it would likely be a pick downgrade from just keeping him on the bench, so it could be worth his remaining $2.5m to "buy" a better draft pick a year later. Yes we're going to be FA players in 2019, but we're also scheduled to lose enough UFAs with expiring contracts that we should be in line for multiple comp picks; I'd rather the last qualifying Jets UFA-added cancels out a 6th-7th round pick for an Ijalana/Powell type loss than the 3rd-5th round pick we might recover for Teddy.

If we get offered a 4th rounder or better by the end of the summer I'd take it instead of gambling on a serious injury to a contender's starting QB during weeks 1-8 netting another round or two in trade (never mind Teddy doesn't exactly carry no injury risk himself). If a 6th/7th is the top offer I'd roll the dice on such an injury happening elsewhere. A 5th rounder on/around September 1st is harder to say. Likely I'd still grudgingly take it if that's truly the best offer: it's actually a higher trade value than a compensatory 4th a year later (which we might offset with pickups of our own), plus we'd save the full $5m of TB's 2018 salary to use towards someone with a future here. So long as Sam is healthy, Teddy's future lies elsewhere.

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On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:31 PM, RoadFan said:

Not if the Jets trade Bridge like some around here seem to think is a good idea.

Waited 50 years for a serious, young QB prospect.  The Jets have two and some can't wait to unload one.   smh

because teddy is signed to a 1 year deal. he will leave for a starting spot after season. why not get something for him?

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2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

because teddy is signed to a 1 year deal. he will leave for a starting spot after season. why not get something for him?

Gee... nobody has mentioned that before?!?! #sarcasm

Seriously though...  When you are a franchise that has sifted through nearly 50 years of sh*t at the QB position, no 2nd or 3rd round draft pick is worth the security of having a backup plan in place for a franchise player. 

If Darnold shows he is the man by the trade deadline this season... by all means, move Teddy. 

If Darnold looks just OK.  Teddy remains an extremely valuable asset.  Possibly priceless.  Even if the Jets have to offer Teddy 16M next season on a 1 year to hold a clip board...  they have plenty of cap space to make it work.   Sam Darnold is a confident enough kid that he won't be rattled by the "looking over his shoulder" shtick some will present.  And yes, Bridge might decline and go elsewhere seeking a starting job.  But that is a risk you take, and accept whatever compensatory pick comes back.  Like I said, no 2nd or 3rd is worth a potential franchise QB.

But you don't let go of a potential franchise QB until you are sure you already have one.  Period.

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9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

Complicating the decision is that a healthy Teddy would surely qualify as a compensatory pick level "loss" in the absence of an offsetting acquisition, so a 6th/7th rounder at the trade deadline isn't better than nothing; it would likely be a pick downgrade from just keeping him on the bench, so it could be worth his remaining $2.5m to "buy" a better draft pick a year later. Yes we're going to be FA players in 2019, but we're also scheduled to lose enough UFAs with expiring contracts that we should be in line for multiple comp picks; I'd rather the last qualifying Jets UFA-added cancels out a 6th-7th round pick for an Ijalana/Powell type loss than the 3rd-5th round pick we might recover for Teddy.

If we get offered a 4th rounder or better by the end of the summer I'd take it instead of gambling on a serious injury to a contender's starting QB during weeks 1-8 netting another round or two in trade (never mind Teddy doesn't exactly carry no injury risk himself). If a 6th/7th is the top offer I'd roll the dice on such an injury happening elsewhere.

Should just make this a sticky until he gets traded lol

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20 hours ago, slats said:

I don't see how Bridgewater is another layer of protection for Sam unless you plan on starting him - and I definitely don't believe that's what the Jets are planning. And I don't see the value in an additional one-year quality backup when Josh McCown can fill that role, himself. 

For me, it's between getting something for him or getting nothing. Those are my choices. I'd rather get something. 

First of all I generally find myself very much in agreement with most of what you have to say but I think you are a bit off on this one.  Perhaps there has been some hardening of positions because of the back and forth with Warfish.

Working backwards, $5.5 million dollars is truly peanuts in the current world for any player capable of starting NFL games at the QB position.  So not a lot to pay for whatever level of insurance that may become necessary. Not a lot to pay if your team has plenty of cap dollars as we do unless we are planning to lock up some of our own stars early (Williams?) but we never do that unfortunately.

The current problem with really knowing where we stand at QB and what "plans" the current organization may have is that we have one data point to go on at this time.  Parts of one preseason game and the first one at that.  Some will view it as proof positive that "pow" Sam is going straight to the moon and others that Teddy Bridgewater should be looked at as a viable long term solution as if the organization has not already committed the treasury to Sam Darnold once we drafted him.  Here are some scenarios under which a $5.5 million dollars for a non-joke QB would be prudent.

1) Perhaps Sam Darnold while he flashes plenty of positive signs is simply not ready t o play on Day-1.

2) While "worst to first" in one year never really happens in the NFL, worst to contender does happen fairly often.  I do not think this Jets team will show that kind of improvement but maybe it does.  Maybe Tom Brady finally shows his age and maybe the Bills and Dolphins are still bad.  Maybe the Jets defense is good enough to carry this team to a record that none of us are predicting.

3) Maybe the OLine is as bad as many of us fear it might be.  Maybe 3-deep at QB ends up being thin and we need a credible starter half way through game-1.

If any of the above are true then a 4th round pick is simply not enough in my mind to get back for a cheap, credible QB option who we have on the roster.  If the market is a 4th then keep him and use him however you feel is best for the organization.  I would not go less than a 2nd round pick which is not where the market is today.  The only things that change this equation IMO is if Teddy Bridgewater continues to show marketable skills and more importantly, if some other team becomes desperate.  The latter has not happened yet.

If on the other hand Sam is ready then we owe Teddy nothing.  He is a one year rental and he plays if we need him and he sits if we do not.  Pretty much a perfect situation.

  

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