Giving credit where credit is due, regardless of past failures

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

A bunch of failure has brought us to today, which is ironically a good place to be. A young team with a potential franchise QB, a high draft pick, and a lot of cap room for improvements. Granted, it was failure that put us in this position, but it doesn't change the fact that we are where we are. We can lament over the past, but nothing will change the poor decisions that ownership and the front office have made over the past several years. 

You can make a past failures thread if you want, but I'd prefer if we focused on giving credit to ownership and the front office. 

Culture Change -The jury is out on whether or not Gase was the right choice, but with his hire, we immediately changed the culture of the team. If there was any doubt that Gase will have changed the culture, the hire of Gregg Williams removes any doubts. 

No more rookie, defensive head coaches - We not only hired  coaches who will change the culture, but we hired an offensive minded, experienced head coach along with a defensive coordinator who will light a fire under the backsides of the loafers. 

Developing Sam - We hired a head coach specifically to develop our young QB, which is a move in the right direction.

Possible change in convoluted power structure - Not confirmed, but it sounds like Chris Johnson is having the head coach report to the GM. You can argue that Macc doesn't deserve to have a HC report to him, but that is irrelevant. The decision to have your GM have the power of a GM is a move in the right direction, even if for when we hire the next GM. It will easier to sell being the GM of the Jets if the power structure is normal.

All of these moves could end up being a disaster, but at the end of the day, I applaud Chris Johnson for listening to the fans, or at the least, accidentally doing the right thing. 

[southparkcpa]

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anthony Jet]

On 1/17/2019 at 2:14 PM, southparkcpa said:

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed on all accounts, even after all that I’m excited to see what the rest offseason brings, which I know good or bad, I will still look forward for the season as it approaches....

[CrazyCarl40]

I’m old enough to remember when Todd Bowles was going to change the culture of Rex Ryan who was going to change the culture of... blah blah blah. The culture hasn’t changed. Just the name on the head coach door. 

Also, I love this narrative that Gregg Williams is going to be a master motivator and light a fire under the “loafers”. Listen. These are grown men. If they’re loafers that’s not going to change because the coach changed. That’s engrained in who they are. Also, why would this coach or any coach worth a lick want any “loafers” to begin with? That failure is on Macc. Which is a whole other discussion.

The only point you have is that they hired a coach that should help the offense, in theory only though because he hasn’t proven to be the offensive guru as a head coach that many claim him to be. 

[JetsFanatic]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I’m old enough to remember when Todd Bowles was going to change the culture of Rex Ryan who was going to change the culture of... blah blah blah. The culture hasn’t changed. Just the name on the head coach door. 

Also, I love this narrative that Gregg Williams is going to be a master motivator and light a fire under the “loafers”. Listen. These are grown men. If they’re loafers that’s not going to change because the coach changed. That’s engrained in who they are. Also, why would this coach or any coach worth a lick want any “loafers” to begin with? That failure is on Macc. Which is a whole other discussion.

The only point you have is that they hired a coach that should help the offense, in theory only though because he hasn’t proven to be the offensive guru as a head coach that many claim him to be. 

Bill Parcells with virtually the same team Kotite had turned the team from 1-15 to 9-7.  A better coach can light a fire. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I’m old enough to remember when Todd Bowles was going to change the culture of Rex Ryan who was going to change the culture of... blah blah blah. The culture hasn’t changed. Just the name on the head coach door. 

Also, I love this narrative that Gregg Williams is going to be a master motivator and light a fire under the “loafers”. Listen. These are grown men. If they’re loafers that’s not going to change because the coach changed. That’s engrained in who they are. Also, why would this coach or any coach worth a lick want any “loafers” to begin with? That failure is on Macc. Which is a whole other discussion.

The only point you have is that they hired a coach that should help the offense, in theory only though because he hasn’t proven to be the offensive guru as a head coach that many claim him to be. 

these are all good points

and no one cares

the most fun Jets fans are going to have this season is before the season starts when we convince ourselves this time it's different 

the embarrassing stories change but the outcome is never different 

this particular regime with Gase/Williams/Conan the Barbarian is absolutely going to explode probably before the bye week

but don't make that prediction people will say you are an a$$hole 

[Paradis]

Credit... for what? 

Let me take my Jets jersey off for a moment--

The team has been a colossal bust on nearly every level. The few "signature wins" that people wave a flag on, are so trite and lacking intent, that it's baffling.  The ONLY reason why were not the laughing stock of the NFL is because some how, there's even sh*ttier teams like CLE who steal the spotlight. 

The Mac Era has been a clinic put on for other teams on "How not to run your organization"

[Creepy Lurker]

I get being optimistic but people need to chill out about this team. They need to show something first. Enough with the blind hope/excitement. Anyone that keeps talking themselves into the Jets making all the right decisions and can do no wrong, clearly has not been paying attention.

We all hope for the best but so many around here sound like all of our problems have been solved already and we are FAR from it. Temper expectations and be pleasantly surprised IF things go right. It won’t be easy. 

[FidelioJet]

15 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a HUGE off-season, certainly the most important in recent history.  Considering the importance of Darnold's development - maybe ever.

With this type of cap space, #3 overall and having a legitimate franchise QB , with little talent surrounding him.  This can be a monumental turn around.

I agree, having Mac leading this is VERY disturbing - Like you, I get nauseous just thinking about it.

With that said, Mac has a chance to redeem himself.  

Land a couple of legitimate offensive weapons and an edge in FA (they're out there) trade down and grab a bunch of OL in the early rounds...Not terribly complicated.

This team is immediately a playoff contender.  I have little faith he can pull this off though.

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

these are all good points

and no one cares

the most fun Jets fans are going to have this season is before the season starts when we convince ourselves this time it's different 

the embarrassing stories change but the outcome is never different 

this particular regime with Gase/Williams/Conan the Barbarian is absolutely going to explode probably before the bye week

but don't make that prediction people will say you are an a$$hole 

But, predictions are only as good as the person making the predictions. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

But, predictions are only as good as the person making the predictions. 

I'd rather go through life having people remember bad predictions that didn't come true than to never have the guts to make a prediction at all 

get in the game 

[CrazyCarl40]

11 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Bill Parcells with virtually the same team Kotite had turned the team from 1-15 to 9-7.  A better coach can light a fire. 

Are we really comparing Bill Parcells to Adam Gase?

[Sarge4Tide]

Another thread where somebody posts something positive on JetNation and a bunch of #@%#$@%s  have to jump in and piss on it 

Every...damn...thread 

Some people aren't happy being miserable, they are only happy if they can make other people miserable like them . Misery Vampires 

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'd rather go through life having people remember bad predictions that didn't come true than to never have the guts to make a prediction at all 

get in the game 

I have said it many times here, I am not in the business of making predictions in sports. I am poor at it. Kind of a track record like yours ?.

It doesn't make us bad people, just poor at predictions.

[FidelioJet]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

these are all good points

and no one cares

the most fun Jets fans are going to have this season is before the season starts when we convince ourselves this time it's different 

the embarrassing stories change but the outcome is never different 

this particular regime with Gase/Williams/Conan the Barbarian is absolutely going to explode probably before the bye week

but don't make that prediction people will say you are an a$$hole 

I tend to agree with everything you said - specifically about exploding.  After the first losing streak they're all going to turn on each other.  Everyone will be point fingers and they'll be outward explosions (won't be kept in house like they mostly did with Bowles)

With all of that said, there is one thing that can turn around a shi--y franchise - and it happens very often.  And that is a legitimate franchise QB....If Darnold is real and takes another step - a big step this off-season things can be different.

But anything short of him playing at or near an all-pro level - this team will absolutely implode on itself.

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, bitonti said:

these are all good points

and no one cares

the most fun Jets fans are going to have this season is before the season starts when we convince ourselves this time it's different 

the embarrassing stories change but the outcome is never different 

this particular regime with Gase/Williams/Conan the Barbarian is absolutely going to explode probably before the bye week

but don't make that prediction people will say you are an a$$hole 

Felt the need to cover your ass with that last line, right?  Lol, strong move

[Savage69]

46 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Bill Parcells with virtually the same team Kotite had turned the team from 1-15 to 9-7.  A better coach can light a fire. 

And Tony Sparano took a 1-15 Fin team to 11-5 and won the east in a Brady-less year(2008) by adding Chaddy cakes.. I do agree a good coach can make a huge difference..

[stugotz81]

43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is a HUGE off-season, certainly the most important in recent history.  Considering the importance of Darnold's development - maybe ever.

With this type of cap space, #3 overall and having a legitimate franchise QB , with little talent surrounding him.  This can be a monumental turn around.

I agree, having Mac leading this is VERY disturbing - Like you, I get nauseous just thinking about it.

With that said, Mac has a chance to redeem himself.  

Land a couple of legitimate offensive weapons and an edge in FA (they're out there) trade down and grab a bunch of OL in the early rounds...Not terribly complicated.

This team is immediately a playoff contender.  I have little faith he can pull this off though.

IF Mac does pull off the above and we make playoffs next season, all but a few guys on this board will be on the Mac wagon.  

[JetsFanatic]

41 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Are we really comparing Bill Parcells to Adam Gase?

Just pointing out that it's possible for better coaching to get more out of players.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

these are all good points

and no one cares

the most fun Jets fans are going to have this season is before the season starts when we convince ourselves this time it's different 

the embarrassing stories change but the outcome is never different 

this particular regime with Gase/Williams/Conan the Barbarian is absolutely going to explode probably before the bye week

but don't make that prediction people will say you are an a$$hole 

To be fair I prefer explosions to things just fizzing out.

[JustInFudge]

Joe Philbin won as many games as Adam Gase in Miami. 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

Bill Parcells with virtually the same team Kotite had turned the team from 1-15 to 9-7.  A better coach can light a fire. 

 

12 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

And Tony Sparano took a 1-15 Fin team to 11-5 and won the east in a Brady-less year(2008) by adding Chaddy cakes.. I do agree a good coach can make a huge difference..

I think that is indisputable.

Todd Bowles lost , IMO, 1.5 games each year on decisions he made.

We watched teams beat us in the last 5 minutes with strategy coming from the bench.

Good coaches make a difference..... Vrable got 2-3 wins in 2018 that Bowles couldn't get in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[Losmeister]

49 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

this team will absolutely implode on itself.

we dont know whose even ON the team yet...

safe bet to say we'll suck

understandable

me? i have no ideaa wtf is gonna happen. never surprised when its bad. glad when its decent...  

last time was toard end of 2015, before that was 2011 before i knew theyd suck

in between i watch redzone

[varjet]

I honestly believe that the combination of new coaching, new schemes (surprise!), developed Sam and new players and last place schedule will result in a better season in 2019, very similar to what happened in 2015.

But just like in 2015, whether the Jets are better in 2020 will depend on the players that Mac procures this year.

If we see alot of short term fixes this year, we know we are in long-term trouble.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You didn't read a word of my original post before chiming in with your NPC response. MACC BAD! MACC DRAFT HACKENBERG!

[UnknownJetFan]

16 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

A bunch of failure has brought us to today, which is ironically a good place to be. A young team with a potential franchise QB, a high draft pick, and a lot of cap room for improvements. Granted, it was failure that put us in this position, but it doesn't change the fact that we are where we are. We can lament over the past, but nothing will change the poor decisions that ownership and the front office have made over the past several years. 

You can make a past failures thread if you want, but I'd prefer if we focused on giving credit to ownership and the front office. 

Culture Change -The jury is out on whether or not Gase was the right choice, but with his hire, we immediately changed the culture of the team. If there was any doubt that Gase will have changed the culture, the hire of Gregg Williams removes any doubts. 

No more rookie, defensive head coaches - We not only hired  coaches who will change the culture, but we hired an offensive minded, experienced head coach along with a defensive coordinator who will light a fire under the backsides of the loafers. 

Developing Sam - We hired a head coach specifically to develop our young QB, which is a move in the right direction.

Possible change in convoluted power structure - Not confirmed, but it sounds like Chris Johnson is having the head coach report to the GM. You can argue that Macc doesn't deserve to have a HC report to him, but that is irrelevant. The decision to have your GM have the power of a GM is a move in the right direction, even if for when we hire the next GM. It will easier to sell being the GM of the Jets if the power structure is normal.

All of these moves could end up being a disaster, but at the end of the day, I applaud Chris Johnson for listening to the fans, or at the least, accidentally doing the right thing. 

I also regardless of anything said go by what occurs on your watch. When Woody did stupid things like the Revis 2.0, Tebow acquisition that had his name written on it, etc. these were driven by him interfacing with GMs. Again on his watch mistakes like those and others caused many of our setbacks with even domino affects of those. Now for some of Chris John's areas he would have had interfacing with the GM (Mac) on they are below:

1) Trade of Sheldon for Kearse and a 2nd round pick - Outcome: 2nd round pick helped net us Darnold and we saved 8M on Sheldon, Kearse worked for 1 year.  This would be considered a good decsion and overall a win.

2) Putting a stop to a potential FA addition of Suh. - Outcome: better for the team a Suh up to that point was bad news and considered dirty wherever he played.

3) Approving the T. Johnson CB large contract - Jury's still out on this, but Williams was his DC in Rams and should get him back there in the new 4-3 D, plus even though this guys struggled in coverage and with penalties he did have 4 INT and a fumble recovery so he has big play capability. Outcome: Stated above, but we'll see if this gets better going forward.

4) Trade up to last years 3rd overall pick for 3 second rounders and then the Darnold selection - Outcome: This looks like our FQB.

5) Hiring Gase as HC and potentially having him report to GM (Mac) - Outcome:  Probably the best HC chosen out of the pool for us and our situation. Many of us wanted McCarthy, but in the end McCarthy underachieved in many ways the past 2-3 years with GB having a HOF QB, while Gase overachieved in Miami with little at QB while he had to also handle GM personnel duties that he didn't even request. We will see about the HC to GM reporting in the structure if we definitively get that info.

Conclusion: All of above again are on Chis Johnson's watch and I am not even including how he handled the whole Anthem issue since that was not decisions like 1-5 above where interfacing with the GM were of the essence. All were decisions not to grab headlines like he even said that he is not trying to win twitter. These seem like sound decisions and hopefully we see as many of 1-5 have shown that they help the Jets move in the right direction for some sustained success. I for one as a Senior manager with an MBA knows that every decision doesn't always work out for the best, and then you must learn from it and in that area make better ones moving forward. Right now based on above and what I have seen, I really hope that once Woody comes home he goes into the background and leaves this job to his brother Chris who appears to already be better at it then he is and still may get even better then he himself is. Just what I would choose, but hey, I am not the billionaire pulling the strings.   

 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

we dont know whose even ON the team yet...

safe bet to say we'll suck

understandable

me? i have no ideaa wtf is gonna happen. never surprised when its bad. glad when its decent...  

last time was toard end of 2015, before that was 2011 before i knew theyd suck

in between i watch redzone

My position is pretty clear though - this is a volatile coaching staff - with a wounded GM.  If Darnold is playing at a high-level all will be fine.

If Darnold looks bad and the team starts to string together a few losses - it will get ugly.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Credit... for what? 

 

Read the post. It has the answer to that question.

[peebag]

Go Jets!

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

it will get ugly

HERE? Sure. It's already ugly here. Independant of the team. 

You make it sound like a post apocalyptic scene where strangers are fighting for food and firearms...

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I’m old enough to remember when Todd Bowles was going to change the culture of Rex Ryan who was going to change the culture of... blah blah blah. The culture hasn’t changed. Just the name on the head coach door. 

Also, I love this narrative that Gregg Williams is going to be a master motivator and light a fire under the “loafers”. Listen. These are grown men. If they’re loafers that’s not going to change because the coach changed. That’s engrained in who they are. Also, why would this coach or any coach worth a lick want any “loafers” to begin with? That failure is on Macc. Which is a whole other discussion.

The only point you have is that they hired a coach that should help the offense, in theory only though because he hasn’t proven to be the offensive guru as a head coach that many claim him to be. 

no you dont understand this time is different

[Spoot-Face]

Three more years of this sh*t.

[Skeptable]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

I will first state I want Mac gone too... And I don't think he has been a good GM. BUT....

Point By Point...

- Draft record is poor but it has improved from the first 2 years, and this past draft looks to have a lot of actually good players.

- Again you are making the mistake that his past failure as a first time GM in his first 2 years of failure proves that he will fail in the future.

- Marcus Maye is not a failure and when healthy is one of the best players on the Jets, last year they didn't have a second round.

- He has gotten better every year with contracts and most of the mid-level contracts he has given out have turned into successes.  He has also removed almost all dead money off the books and many players can be cut with no future cap hits.  He has done an excellent job of not causing larger financial problems that would impede the building of the organization

- Because he has improved year over year... Hopefully that doesn't plateau.

- Umm Ok

- And the 3rd time is the charm... Was his first 2 drafts absolute disasters... It seems that way... have the last 2 been vast improvements,... Absolutely.

The point here is that he wasn't great at anything his first 2 years in the office, but there has been improvement in each year every year. 

Another factor to point out is that Bowles had a say in certain personnel decisions, which may have caused problems and indecision ending up in bad drafts... There were multiple reports that stated as much and there was even a report 2 years ago about how Mac was going to have more control over who was going to be drafted.

[southparkcpa]

36 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You didn't read a word of my original post before chiming in with your NPC response. MACC BAD! MACC DRAFT HACKENBERG!

I read the WHOLE thing.  Optimism is great.... I like the Gase hire, the Williams Hire no question.

But I haven't seen MAC do much right and now he is in charge?  So im hesitantly optimistic.

 

BTW... MAC is Bad. 

[CrazyCarl40]

58 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Just pointing out that it's possible for better coaching to get more out of players.

You’d first have to convince we that Gase is a better head coach than Todd Bowles. Bowles got career seasons out of Fitzpatrick and McCown and saw marked improvement throughout the season from Darnold. And he was awful. There’s nothing evidence wise that shows me Gase is a better coach than Bowles.