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Crowell Expected to be Released after the Jets sign a new RB in FA


choon328

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3 hours ago, choon328 said:

The contacts were structured in a way so that they were both basically given 1 year deals. There's no dead money for either player. The one thing Macc does well is structure contracts. 

Maybe that should be his job. Let somebody else put together the roster.

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2 hours ago, varjet said:

I went to Wharton undergrad.  I went through the college process with my son.  I have observed it for my friends kids.  This is far from a true statement.

What is true is that if you are ALUMNUS who contributes generously, you can greatly increase your child's chances of getting into Wharton.   That is a $1 million gift.  But the child needs to be qualified-basically median board scores, which for Wharton is like 32-34 ACT.  

If a legacy's scores are a bit lower with that type of donation, you may be able to get into Arts and Sciences.

If the alumnus has been an active supporter and their child is qualified, that usually gets them in, understanding that Penn rejects plenty of applicants who are qualified.   But Wharton spots are very hard to obtain, even for alumni children.  Only the best student athletes are offered Wharton spots as well.   When I was there it was more generous, but not anymore.  

Put into perspective, out of a class of almost 2500 freshmen at Penn, I think around 300 of them would be children of alumni who contributed, and the vast majority of them would have been qualified.  Out of Wharton, that could be 30-45 of the 300 spots.  

I am also the graduate of a University of California graduate program.  I have seen USC in action.  USC, along with SMU and Duke, are the schools with the reputation of being kindest to its contributors and legacies.  USC has improved tremendously over the last 30 years academically, but it maintains a split personality-the fraternity and sorority crowd who have a great time and take advantage of the connections, and the others, many on scholarship and/or international, who work very, very hard, all the time.  Part of that is to avoid walking around campus and getting killed.  

Who cares???

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16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

That is great news, this was the most signing ever.  You just don't win with low character guys like crowell.  He's a very talented guy but has serious issues preventing him from maximizing his talent.  Good riddance

Ironic, Browns brought in somebody worse.

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3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

well if you are making a snarky (and untrue) claim about an educational institution, it is funny that you misspell a key word in your post.  Maybe it's just me, but your USC pom-poms are getting annoying.  I like that you are a Darnold fan.  Because he is a Jet.  It would be better if you were actually a Jets fan.  At least Villain has some credibility of once being a Jets fan.  You are here for #14 and #14 alone apparently.  Or am I wrong about that?  Are you a Jets fan?  Yes or no?  And being a "Darnold' fan isn't enough to qualify.

Boy, did I ever beg for that one.....I’m man enough to take it, so bring it on!  I’m capable of doing, and posting, dumbass things like the rest of you.

I don’t know about being an NFL fan, period.  I do know I like the Jets, or at least interested since the Broadway Joe days, and you won’t find me lurking around or posting on another NFL message board.  

I’m straight up and honest about going against the grain, just like my nephew, Foe. ?

 

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

No one said you can't bash Macc's bad moves. There are more than enough to go around.

But when you bash signing Long/Cro, you just don't get it. Those deals were fine. We got production this past year and it's not costing us in future years. It's like bashing Macc for trading away too much to get Darnold, but at the same time saying Darnold is going to be great. 

I actually thought like you at one time.

I personally think Maccagnan is the worst GM in the league, incredibly in over his head, but at least I thought it’s good that he can “get out of his mistakes quickly” by the way he structures contracts.  That’s the ONLY thing I gave him credit for.  

That is until I heard another point of view and it’s this.

Maccagnan is WRONG close to 100% of the time.  That’s no exaggeration, not really debatable.  So when he’s wrong and he tosses mistake upon mistake on the trash heap, how is that any way to build a team?

What you have is this revolving door of players saying “hi” and “bye” to each other EVERY single year. 

The continuity argument might be more important for the players on the field, as opposed to management.  I saw a documentary on Troy Aikman and he hit Novochek with a pass and neither of them even saw each other throughout the entire play.  Novochek later in disbelief asked Aikman why he even threw the pass...Aikman...”because I KNEW you’d be there”.

That type of continuity, that’s how great teams are built.

You really can’t have that on our Jets...not with this hodge podge of garbage this idiot Maccagnan throws together every year.

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1 hour ago, Dcat said:

you have no idea what you are talking about.  Just try "buying" your way into Wharton.  LOL.  And the word is "acceptance" not "exceptance".  But spelling doesn't count.  Not even at Wharton.

@Lith  Hey Larry, how much money did dad contribute to U Penn to get you into Wharton?   Ahahahahaha.  Too funny if it weren't so stupid.

Not sure if Helen was referrings specifically to this, but our former Basketball coach at Penn, Jerome Allen, plead guilty a couple of months ago to accepting (not excepting) a bribe to list a wealthy Miami businessman's kid as a basketball recruit to improve his chance of acceptance. 

As for me, beyond tuition, my dad did not pay anything extra for me to get in.  I got in all by myself -- 4 years of high school with no life, being a nerd before nerds were fashionable.  With nothing better to do on Friday and Saturday nights than sit home and study, the grades got me in.  And I didn't even have a football team worth rooting for on Sundays back then (1970s) -- I guess some things never change.

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5 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Boy, did I ever beg for that one.....I’m man enough to take it, so bring it on!  I’m capable of doing, and posting, dumbass things like the rest of you.

I don’t know about being an NFL fan, period.  I do know I like the Jets, or at least interested since the Broadway Joe days, and you won’t find me lurking around or posting on another NFL message board.  

I’m straight up and honest about going against the grain, just like my nephew, Foe. ?

 

Good answer!  :good: Thanks.  

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5 minutes ago, Lith said:

Not sure if Helen was referrings specifically to this, but our former Basketball coach at Penn, Jerome Allen, plead guilty a couple of months ago to accepting (not excepting) a bribe to list a wealthy Miami businessman's kid as a basketball recruit to improve his chance of acceptance. 

As for me, beyond tuition, my dad did not pay anything extra for me to get in.  I got in all by myself -- 4 years of high school with no life, being a nerd before nerds were fashionable.  With nothing better to do on Friday and Saturday nights than sit home and study, the grades got me in.  And I didn't even have a football team worth rooting for on Sundays back then (1970s) -- I guess some things never change.

Let me clarify, one last time.  Penn is a prestigious university, elite...USC is not at that level, which makes it surprising that  a sole alumnus has given the quality of that stellar education a black eye.  I’m accustomed to the constant digs about location, the quality of education and how the school buys athletes, we’ve learned to come out swinging.

Sarcastic digs are often lost on social media.  

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11 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Let me clarify, one last time.  Penn is a prestigious university, elite...USC is not at that level, which makes it surprising that  a sole alumnus has given the quality of that stellar education a black eye.  I’m accustomed to the constant digs about location, the quality of education and how the school buys athletes, we’ve learned to come out swinging.

Sarcastic digs are often lost on social media.  

All good, Helen.  I had no problem whatsoever with your original comment. 

Just wasn't sure if you had heard about the basketball coach bribery thing or you were making a comment about another one of our famous alums who has been in the news quite a bit for the past two plus years, but the forum ban on politics prevents me from opining.  And I agree with you, stuff like that goes on everywhere. 

As a Penn grad who went on to grad school at Georgia, I am proud to be a graduate of both.  They are not as different as some might believe.

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11 minutes ago, Lith said:

All good, Helen.  I had no problem whatsoever with your original comment. 

Just wasn't sure if you had heard about the basketball coach bribery thing or you were making a comment about another one of our famous alums who has been in the news quite a bit for the past two plus years, but the forum ban on politics prevents me from opining.  And I agree with you, stuff like that goes on everywhere. 

As a Penn grad who went on to grad school at Georgia, I am proud to be a graduate of both.  They are not as different as some might believe.

No.  Honestly, I don’t pay attention to that stuff, I know all too well that the media and other university fans take pleasure on jumping to conclusions, or outright spreading untruths simply because they want the school to be brought low.

I don’t trust, or respect the NCAA and their gestapo tactics and ruling, either. 

Haha, I know you know who I’m talking about, bigly!  I’ll be good, mods. ?

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13 minutes ago, Lith said:

All good, Helen.  I had no problem whatsoever with your original comment. 

Just wasn't sure if you had heard about the basketball coach bribery thing or you were making a comment about another one of our famous alums who has been in the news quite a bit for the past two plus years, but the forum ban on politics prevents me from opining.  And I agree with you, stuff like that goes on everywhere. 

As a Penn grad who went on to grad school at Georgia, I am proud to be a graduate of both.  They are not as different as some might believe.

Georgia is also a very good school, so is Florida.  Can’t go wrong with either.

Of course, my Vanderbilt Man son-in-law has a very different opinion!  I don’t listen to him on that, though....?

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1 hour ago, Dcat said:

they can talk to players who have been cut.  They can't talk to players still under contract until that contract expires on March 13th at 4 pm. (or a few days before that in the so called "legal tampering period".  (Incredible non sequitor!)

Ok. I was wonder what RB they were so confident in signing that they’d already have plans to sign him and cut Cro. Bell??

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1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

If the Jets don't sign Bell this place is going to go nuts. Every single sign possible has pointed right to Bell in Green & White.

Lol what. 

There’s that whole thing called reality where he still has to actually sign here. The same challenges for Cousins will present themselves here with Bell

 

BELL’S AGENT: Goal —  to net the most money, while also picking the team that will give him the best chance to re-up in two years. 

If you don’t think that last part is going to be a problem, then you never understood what happened with Cousins & MIN. 

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1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I actually thought like you at one time.

I personally think Maccagnan is the worst GM in the league, incredibly in over his head, but at least I thought it’s good that he can “get out of his mistakes quickly” by the way he structures contracts.  That’s the ONLY thing I gave him credit for.  

 That is until I heard another point of view and it’s this.

Maccagnan is WRONG close to 100% of the time.  That’s no exaggeration, not really debatable.  So when he’s wrong and he tosses mistake upon mistake on the trash heap, how is that any way to build a team?

 What you have is this revolving door of players saying “hi” and “bye” to each other EVERY single year. 

 The continuity argument might be more important for the players on the field, as opposed to management.  I saw a documentary on Troy Aikman and he hit Novochek with a pass and neither of them even saw each other throughout the entire play.  Novochek later in disbelief asked Aikman why he even threw the pass...Aikman...”because I KNEW you’d be there”.

That type of continuity, that’s how great teams are built.

You really can’t have that on our Jets...not with this hodge podge of garbage this idiot Maccagnan throws together every year.

Trading up to 3. Miss

Drafting Darnold. Miss. 

Jamal Adams. Miss. 

Herndon. Miss

Robby Anderson. Miss. 

Trading for Anderson. Miss. 

Unloading Sheldon Richardson for a 2nd/Kearse- Miss. 

Trading Calvin Pryor for Demario Davis. Miss. 

Leonard WIlliams. Miss

tons of cap space heading into this year. Miss. 

 

You want to rattle off a bunch of actual misses? Go ahead. There are PLENTY. But just because he has missed a bunch of times doesn't mean you can say he is wrong close to 100pct of the time. 

His trades have actually been hits more often than not. 

And he hasn't strapped this team with terrible contracts (even if you can find 1 or 2 bad ones). Many (not ALL) that haven't panned out weren't deals he couldn't easily get out of after a year. 

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6 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So Spencer Long and Isiah Crowell, both signed to multi-year contracts both dumped after one season.

Why is Mac still employed again?

Because they were deals that allow the jets after a year to get out of them without much cap hits. He structures most deals that way to use as a smoke screen the team having great cap situations, but yet never signing anyone who helps out for any length of time. 

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2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 

And he hasn't strapped this team with terrible contracts (even if you can find 1 or 2 bad ones). Many (not ALL) that haven't panned out weren't deals he couldn't easily get out of after a year. 

True however two counterpoints:

1. Elite players won’t sign on for such deals. It only works on reclaimation projects, older players, JAGs and the like.

2. Sometimes a GM has to have enough confidence in himself to go all-in on a player he truly believes in, consequences and the armchair critics be damned. We saw this in Dorsey picking Mayfield at #1 (and with Andy Reid trading away Alex Smith). Sure now seems a nobrainer but plenty of the “experts” were borderline mocking him with “Browns gonna Browns,” type eye rolls.

Some GMs (like Dorsey) general manage to win, Macc is general managing not to lose. He’s the Bowles of GMs. Don’t see how Jets can win it all with him at the helm.

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

True however two counterpoints:

1. Elite players won’t sign on for such deals. It only works on reclaimation projects, older players, JAGs and the like.

2. Sometimes a GM has to have enough confidence in himself to go all-in on a player he truly believes in, consequences and the armchair critics be damned. We saw this in Dorsey picking Mayfield at #1 (and with Andy Reid trading away Alex Smith). Sure now seems a nobrainer but plenty of the “experts” were borderline mocking him with “Browns gonna Browns,” type eye rolls.

Some GMs (like Dorsey) general manage to win, Macc is general managing not to lose. He’s the Bowles of GMs. Don’t see how Jets can win it all with him at the helm.

I'm going to borrow that for a while. 

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Trading up to 3. Miss

Drafting Darnold. Miss. 

Jamal Adams. Miss. 

Herndon. Miss

Robby Anderson. Miss. 

Trading for Anderson. Miss. 

Unloading Sheldon Richardson for a 2nd/Kearse- Miss. 

Trading Calvin Pryor for Demario Davis. Miss. 

Leonard WIlliams. Miss

tons of cap space heading into this year. Miss. 

 

You want to rattle off a bunch of actual misses? Go ahead. There are PLENTY. But just because he has missed a bunch of times doesn't mean you can say he is wrong close to 100pct of the time. 

His trades have actually been hits more often than not. 

And he hasn't strapped this team with terrible contracts (even if you can find 1 or 2 bad ones). Many (not ALL) that haven't panned out weren't deals he couldn't easily get out of after a year. 

If Macc screws up this offseason he really is the worst GM we have ever had.  Yes, worse than Idzik

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9 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So Spencer Long and Isiah Crowell, both signed to multi-year contracts both dumped after one season.

Why is Mac still employed again?

Ummm...I'm no big Mac fan, but I'm pretty sure he couldn't predict that Crowell would wipe his ass with the football in CLE before he signed him.  IOW, Crowell is an idiot.

Personally, I would have held onto Long as an OG and backup OC.

 

But that's just me.

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1 minute ago, greenwave81 said:

Ummm...I'm no big Mac fan, but I'm pretty sure he couldn't predict that Crowell would wipe his ass with the football in CLE before he signed him.  IOW, Crowell is an idiot.

Personally, I would have held onto Long as an OG and backup OC.

 

But that's just me.

Kinda weird Jets fans hate Crowell for that 

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9 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Personally, I would have held onto Long as an OG and backup OC.

In September and December, we are going to look at cutting Long and decide it either worked out or backfired. 

I agree with you-I think we conclude it backfires.

You cut Long if you are strapped with cap space and have backups ready to step up.  And you have recently made the playoffs.

When yoiu are desperate to make the playoffs,  have $100 million in cap space, have 3 OL under contract and your back up OL last year were named Qvale, Harrison and Dozier, you don't cut Spencer Long.

But we shall see.

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6 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

All of those hardened Jets fans want to say signing guys like Long and Crowell are good things where they got out so easily. The problem with that is that the team has a net LOSS in the talent. Mac's not drafting good talent so he's relying on FA. At the end of the day however, the Jets still had stinko players at RB and Center last year and now they have gaping holes that will need to be filled this offseason . This team is so devoid of talent that I doubt 100 million even scratches the surface of all of the Jets needs. This teams problems start and end with the same guy that you're celebrating for being so shrewd in structuring contracts. He MUST start drafting better. He MUST start doing the main priority of his job!

The Jets have 31 players on the roster plus 12 RFA/ERFA. 8 of them were on the 53 man roster last year. So that's at least 39 players on the roster not 31 like people keep suggesting. That means there are 14 spots open on the 53. 7 starting spots and 7 reserve players.

Starting positions open:

HB, WR, LG, C

DE (x2), CB

 

The Jets could easily sign 7 role players at around $10-$15 million total. That leaves, conservatively $70 million for those other 7 spots after your deduct the draft pick salaries (Roughly $9 million). The Jets will have plenty of money to bring in 3-4 really big time players at HB, LG, C, DE. And then good to very good players at the other starting spots. 

This idea that they won't have enough money to address every issue on the team this off-season is just not true.

 

EDIT

I also forgot that probably 4 or 5 of the draft picks will be on the 53 as well. Conservatively you say 2 of those draft picks would be starters and the other 3 would be reserves. Now you're looking for 5 starters and 4 reserves with around $85 million in cap space. They can bring in Bell, Paradise, Saffold and one of the big edge rusher easily and that would transform the entire offense.

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

True however two counterpoints:

1. Elite players won’t sign on for such deals. It only works on reclaimation projects, older players, JAGs and the like.

2. Sometimes a GM has to have enough confidence in himself to go all-in on a player he truly believes in, consequences and the armchair critics be damned. We saw this in Dorsey picking Mayfield at #1 (and with Andy Reid trading away Alex Smith). Sure now seems a nobrainer but plenty of the “experts” were borderline mocking him with “Browns gonna Browns,” type eye rolls.

Some GMs (like Dorsey) general manage to win, Macc is general managing not to lose. He’s the Bowles of GMs. Don’t see how Jets can win it all with him at the helm.

So what you're saying is you'd give him more credit if he gave Crowell a fully guaranteed contract rather than the 1 guaranteed year that he was about to get out of bc he went all in on it? That makes no sense.

Every contract should have an out early on depending on the amount of years. That's why roster bonuses are used so often bc it makes it seem like there is more guaranteed money than there is. It gives the agent and the player the perception win when in reality it's a lot of fluff. Every team does that.

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39 minutes ago, choon328 said:

So what you're saying is you'd give him more credit if he gave Crowell a fully guaranteed contract rather than the 1 guaranteed year that he was about to get out of bc he went all in on it? That makes no sense.

Every contract should have an out early on depending on the amount of years. That's why roster bonuses are used so often bc it makes it seem like there is more guaranteed money than there is. It gives the agent and the player the perception win when in reality it's a lot of fluff. Every team does that.

No. I'd give him credit if instead of always bargain shopping and giving himself an out, he took and won a big gamble or two and got us some elite players.

He does get some credit from me for moving up to three, although it's not really an example of showing confidence in his eval of a specific prospect since he didn't know who'd be there at three. But credit where credit is due nonetheless.

He just seems to be managing tight/scared. Afraid to push the chips in. Worried what the reactions will be. So take whoever falls to him rather than go out on a limb. In other words, he trusts the consensus evals  over his own. I can't see Macc pounding the table for anyone. Especially after Hack. I think that shook his confidence and he's starting to worry if he belongs. Look at a guy like Dorsey.... that dude knows he belongs. And if ESPN laughs at one of his moves, he grunts and flushes twice. That's what I want.

 

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24 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Ummm...I'm no big Mac fan, but I'm pretty sure he couldn't predict that Crowell would wipe his ass with the football in CLE before he signed him.  IOW, Crowell is an idiot.

Personally, I would have held onto Long as an OG and backup OC.

 

But that's just me.

$6.5 million is a lot for a backup. That would've made him the 13th highest paid Center in the NFL as a backup. He wasn't very good at all. Something like the 37th rated Center. And that's not including his bad snaps. I expect that Dozier and Harrison will be back as depth players on the line each at about half that $6.5 million number.

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2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

$6.5 million is a lot for a backup. That would've made him the 13th highest paid Center in the NFL as a backup. He wasn't very good at all. Something like the 37th rated Center. And that's not including his bad snaps. I expect that Dozier and Harrison will be back as depth players on the line each at about half that $6.5 million number.

That is probably right for Dozier and Harrison, but way too much money for either of them.  That is why you trade down to get more draft picks.  

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2 minutes ago, varjet said:

That is probably right for Dozier and Harrison, but way too much money for either of them.  That is why you trade down to get more draft picks.  

$3 million is backup money. That's not too much. I would expect it to be a 2-3 year deal with only the 1st year guaranteed at like $2-$3 million. Kind of like what they did with Long but for less money. Dozier and Harrison are solid backups. Unless you're using a 1st or 2nd day pick on an offensive lineman it's really hard to go into a season with a few late round picks as your backups. You need veteran backups otherwise you're in a world of crap if multiple starters go down. Ideal scenario is the Jets trade down and pick up a 2nd and 3rd this year. That way they can address the offensive line in a meaningful way. The chances of picks from rounds 4-7 becoming a starter is something like 14%. Those are not great odds at all. You want to acquire as many top 3 round picks as possible. Those are the ones that have the most impact on your team.

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Doesn't make much sense.  He's only a $5M cap hit, and we only save $3M by cutting him ($4M if we wait until after June 1).  The only reason to let him go would be if we get a significant upgrade at the position. 

Why not at least try to float him in a trade offer somewhere?

We save $4MM off the cap because we won't be paying him $4MM.

The $2MM is a sunk cost because it's 2/3 of a signing bonus that had already been paid. Whether it hits all in 2019 or spread from 2019-2020 is irrelevant because (1) the Jets aren't going to need that last $1MM this year (2) they could put it off if they wanted to (3) they could always clear another $1MM by converting $2MM of someone else's (e.g. Winters) 2019 salary to a $2MM signing bonus and spread that over 2 years instead so it hits 1 & 1 instead of 2 & 0. In the end it's the same thing. 

It was a year-to-year $4MM/year contract. That there's this dead cap amount is irrelevant because his salary was only $1MM last year, so the extra space leftover by this setup was pushed forward anyway. 

 

Agree it'd be better if we could get a pick in return. Don't know what trade value he has, though these things are often eye of the beholder.

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9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We save $4MM off the cap because we won't be paying him $4MM.

The $2MM is a sunk cost because it's 2/3 of a signing bonus that had already been paid. Whether it hits all in 2019 or spread from 2019-2020 is irrelevant because (1) the Jets aren't going to need that last $1MM this year (2) they could put it off if they wanted to (3) they could always clear another $1MM by converting $2MM of someone else's (e.g. Winters) 2019 salary to a $2MM signing bonus and spread that over 2 years instead so it hits 1 & 1 instead of 2 & 0. In the end it's the same thing. 

It was a year-to-year $4MM/year contract. That there's this dead cap amount is irrelevant because his salary was only $1MM last year, so the extra space leftover by this setup was pushed forward anyway. 

 

Agree it'd be better if we could get a pick in return. Don't know what trade value he has, though these things are often eye of the beholder.

There is no dead money for Crowell. The $2 million bonus is a roster bonus, not the signing bonus. As long as they release or trade him prior to the 3rd day of the new season the Jets won't be on the hook for anything. Macc doesn't give out a lot of signing bonuses in general for this exact reason. He usually guarantees the first year and then has roster bonuses for the additional years. 

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7 hours ago, varjet said:

Getting back to the real football topic...

I think there is an important shift going on with Long and Crowell.

Neither player is great, and both were and are overpaid, but they are both better than anything else the Jets have on the roster.  So they were rebuilding, but did not want to win zero games and get fired. 

I think Mac last year was overpaying somewhat to have warm bodies on the team to make up for his bad draft picks.

The Jets seem more confident this year that they could sign players who are better, for likely more money (which they have).

The Jets would have been better off scouring practice squads and trading players for draft picks (any round) to fill the roster with super cheap players that way, rather than sign guys like Crowell and Long.  

Not really disagreeing with you, but other than 5th-7th rounder RBs that come with a single-digit starter percentage rate at the position, he hasn't made any serious picks at these positions. He was too busy going with his gut that he could look brilliant by re-signing Wesley Johnson in 2017 after presuming Mangold would play for 10 more years. Also why bother drafting RBs when you've already locked the team into multi-year guarantees for the Forte/Powell tandem?

All the smart GMs wait until there's a hole at the position, and then guarantee starter money at the position with mediocre/lower level players in FA: just enough to ensure there's no pressing need to draft the position a month later. 

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