Marcus Maye is 26

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Savage.

I did stare at that for like a solid minute before posting, wondering whether that might be going a step too far, but then I remembered that I'm a terrible person, so... ya know.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

I did stare at that for like a solid minute before posting, wondering whether that might be going a step too far, but then I remembered that I'm a terrible person, so... ya know.

 

 

[Bleedin Green]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Our grandkids will let us know 

Great post yet fans crush tanny for taking his shot... that’s what you have to do

Yeah, Tanny deserved to be fired by the time it happened, but he was never as bad as some currently try to act, and you only need to look at the track records of his successors to see that.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, Stark said:

How would this change with Todd Bowles as HC? lol

We didn't draft great and we had a bad HC. Factor in the Idzik debacle previous to this we were in a sh*t spot to begin with. This is a "fair" plan above we just had some really bad circumstances compounding with others. 

Mac should have been fired with Bowles this is a crucial draft/remainder of offseason for him. 

I’m not sure what you mean about Bowles. I mentioned him in another post so I think I know what you mean but please clarify. Otherwise I agree. 

[roscoeword]

Isnt Maye number 26? 

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's a shame Sanchez was such a dud.

 

18 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yeah, Tanny deserved to be fired by the time it happened, but he was never as bad as some currently try to act, and you only need to look at the track records of his successors to see that.

Definitely earned it with the Sanchez extension but that’s what this league is for anyone who doesn’t have Brady playing for below market while getting paid under table. Build affordable talent and when you have a window go all in, and deal with the cap hell afterwards.

[Jetsfan80]

36 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yeah, Tanny deserved to be fired by the time it happened, but he was never as bad as some currently try to act, and you only need to look at the track records of his successors to see that.

Yep, and we'd be all buying Macc coffee if he ever produced a draft like this (regardless of how much influence Mangini had on the picks):

 

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2006	1	D'Brickashaw Ferguson	4	T	2015	0	3	10	56	160														Virginia
2006	1	Nick Mangold	29	C	2016	2	7	11	66	164									1	-3	0			Ohio St.
2006	2	Kellen Clemens	49	QB	2017	0	0	2	10	64	350	638	4053	16	21	85	227	3	0	0	0			Oregon
2006	3	Anthony Schlegel	76	LB	2007	0	0	0	2	17														Ohio St.
2006	3	Eric Smith	97	DB	2012	0	0	1	16	96									1	27	0	6	3.5	Michigan St.
2006	4	Brad Smith	103	QB	2014	0	0	1	17	127	4	10	51	1	2	134	972	4	104	987	5			Missouri
2006	4	Leon Washington	117	RB	2014	1	2	1	30	126	1	1	36	0	0	487	2271	16	168	1286	4			Florida St.
2006	5	Jason Pociask	150	TE	2007	0	0	0	0	4									1	7	0			Wisconsin
2006	6	Drew Coleman	189	DB	2011	0	0	0	9	83												4	8.0	TCU
2006	7	Titus Adams	220	DT	2009	0	0	0	0	2														Nebraska

[Stark]

25 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I’m not sure what you mean about Bowles. I mentioned him in another post so I think I know what you mean but please clarify. Otherwise I agree. 

Bowles was not able to "coach up" any players IMO. Seemed like he had a hard time getting the team to play with any intensity. I was essentially saying with your 3 year premise that when you factor in the Idzik debacle, plus bad drafting for almost a decade it is tough to have a 3 year plan. Bowles was more of a shot at his seeming lack of ability to get the talent out of the guys we drafted (whether or not the player was a Bowles pick, which we won't truly know).

 

[Scott Dierking]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

19th.  We should be 30-32. 

"facts"

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

"facts"

Ok guy.

[Creepy Lurker]

17 minutes ago, Stark said:

Bowles was not able to "coach up" any players IMO. Seemed like he had a hard time getting the team to play with any intensity. I was essentially saying with your 3 year premise that when you factor in the Idzik debacle, plus bad drafting for almost a decade it is tough to have a 3 year plan. Bowles was more of a shot at his seeming lack of ability to get the talent out of the guys we drafted (whether or not the player was a Bowles pick, which we won't truly know).

 

Gotcha. Yeah Bowles was an abomination. Who knows. I still feel Mac has terrible roster management and foresight. That’s another story though. 

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, David Harris said:

Just a poor utilization of assets.

poor use of syllables

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep, and we'd be all buying Macc coffee if he ever produced a draft like this (regardless of how much influence Mangini had on the picks):

 

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2006	1	D'Brickashaw Ferguson	4	T	2015	0	3	10	56	160														Virginia
2006	1	Nick Mangold	29	C	2016	2	7	11	66	164									1	-3	0			Ohio St.
2006	2	Kellen Clemens	49	QB	2017	0	0	2	10	64	350	638	4053	16	21	85	227	3	0	0	0			Oregon
2006	3	Anthony Schlegel	76	LB	2007	0	0	0	2	17														Ohio St.
2006	3	Eric Smith	97	DB	2012	0	0	1	16	96									1	27	0	6	3.5	Michigan St.
2006	4	Brad Smith	103	QB	2014	0	0	1	17	127	4	10	51	1	2	134	972	4	104	987	5			Missouri
2006	4	Leon Washington	117	RB	2014	1	2	1	30	126	1	1	36	0	0	487	2271	16	168	1286	4			Florida St.
2006	5	Jason Pociask	150	TE	2007	0	0	0	0	4									1	7	0			Wisconsin
2006	6	Drew Coleman	189	DB	2011	0	0	0	9	83												4	8.0	TCU
2006	7	Titus Adams	220	DT	2009	0	0	0	0	2														Nebraska

Yeah, it really is crazy.  Assuming Darnold becomes what we all think he can be, he is the sole exception to the rule.

Beyond that, both Brick and Mangold were better than any other Maccagnan draft pick, Clemens better than either of Mac's first 2 QBs, Brad Smith better than any WR he drafted (although URFA Anderson is better), Washington better than any RB drafted, and even Coleman better than any CBs drafted.

I guess Mac has at least found better players than Schlegel, so I guess he's got that going for him.  I refuse to acknowledge the existence of that other third round pick whose name shall not be mentioned.

[Bleedin Green]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

Bowles was not able to "coach up" any players IMO. Seemed like he had a hard time getting the team to play with any intensity. I was essentially saying with your 3 year premise that when you factor in the Idzik debacle, plus bad drafting for almost a decade it is tough to have a 3 year plan. Bowles was more of a shot at his seeming lack of ability to get the talent out of the guys we drafted (whether or not the player was a Bowles pick, which we won't truly know).

 

I'm absolutely no fan of Bowles, and he certainly deserved to be fired, but there's literally no evidence that yet exists to support claims that he's at fault for individual players' struggles, other than attempted excuse-making for Maccagnan.

While having more than his own fair share of flaws, Bowles still actually managed to get career years out of multiple of his players, most recently the likes of Henry Anderson, Brandon Copeland, and Josh McCown.  Meanwhile, there has yet to be one single player acquired by Maccagnan that has gone on to have any greater success in their post-Jets/Bowles careers, regardless of where they went or by whom they were coached.

Point being, the evidence far more heavily points in the direction of the Jets' failed players lacking any talent to ever be gotten out of them.

[The Gooch]

8 hours ago, nico002 said:

What the ****?

I think he is younger!

[southparkcpa]

8 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Yet Darnold and Leo were only 20. Young?  Old?  What does it all mean???  

It means in general MAC sucks 

[southparkcpa]

6 hours ago, David Harris said:

Maye is very good when on the field.  However drafting older players is a bad because they have very little upside from when they start their careers, a good starting safety floor is where Maye was drafted and has fit.  Wish he could stay in the field more but that's always hard for me to knock a GM for.  I like Maye the player a lot and he's a good guy but the positional value of safeties is just so low when using a very high second round pick, I mean we passed on Dalvin Cook for an older safety.  As we've seen safeties are falling out of the sky in free agency and this draft.  Just a poor utilization of assets.

Sort of like saying my boat looks great when it’s docked.  

[GREENBEAN]

7 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

It means in general MAC sucks 

What? No way man. Not possible.  I think youre way out of line. 

[Stark]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

I'm absolutely no fan of Bowles, and he certainly deserved to be fired, but there's literally no evidence that yet exists to support claims that he's at fault for individual players' struggles, other than attempted excuse-making for Maccagnan.

While having more than his own fair share of flaws, Bowles still actually managed to get career years out of multiple of his players, most recently the likes of Henry Anderson, Brandon Copeland, and Josh McCown.  Meanwhile, there has yet to be one single player acquired by Maccagnan that has gone on to have any greater success in their post-Jets/Bowles careers, regardless of where they went or by whom they were coached.

Point being, the evidence far more heavily points in the direction of the Jets' failed players lacking any talent to ever be gotten out of them.

That is a total possibility.

Bowles blunders cannot be denied though. The biggest unknown yet-Is Bowles just that bad of a HC that he couldn't do anything with the players or did Mac just get "garbage" players? The other unknown is how much of drafting for "Bowles Preference". Mentioning the "career years" for those players is nice, but those career best are still not very good in general. McCown basically had Sam's rookie year, but sam played less games. McCown also was playing under Morton who got screwed IMO, by Bowles... Henry Anderson played the most games of his career, same for Copeland. Just being on the field more and getting to play more snaps increases the opportunity to increase stats and raise the probability of having a career season over small sample size of stats from previous years. Anderson and Copeland both had much improved sack numbers which was nice. The key factor for me will be seeing how certain players perform without Bowles, I am and would be willing to bet that we see on the field/in game improvements for most hold overs.

I am not a Mac defender. I think they both (mac and bowles) deserved to be fired, but I thought Bowles should have been fired after 2017 and the "waiving the white flag game".  If he bombs this draft I'm still on board getting  new GM. 

This year will be telling. That is for sure.

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Drafting older rookies consistently is a terrible idea. Not enough room to grow. Since 2015, we have drafted a ton of players that were at least 24 years old as rookies:

Maye,Stewart,Donahue,Shepherd,Shell, Simon, Harrison, Peake, Nickerson and Cannon were all older rookies coming out. These players were at least 24 years old as rookies. I didn’t count our Punter Edwards because that position is completely different than offense and defense.

We also drafted a TON of 23 year olds which is still borderline old and odd for developmental prospects. Limited upside jags or complete busts. I’m all for player development and taking flyers but older rookies that have reached their physical ceilings already, are starting off on the wrong foot and is a terrible strategy. 

yep and lee and darnold are both underage.  i see what you're getting at but it's probably a lot more even than you might think.

[Bleedin Green]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

That is a total possibility.

Bowles blunders cannot be denied though. The biggest unknown yet-Is Bowles just that bad of a HC that he couldn't do anything with the players or did Mac just get "garbage" players? The other unknown is how much of drafting for "Bowles Preference". Mentioning the "career years" for those players is nice, but those career best are still not very good in general. McCown basically had Sam's rookie year, but sam played less games. McCown also was playing under Morton who got screwed IMO, by Bowles... Henry Anderson played the most games of his career, same for Copeland. Just being on the field more and getting to play more snaps increases the opportunity to increase stats and raise the probability of having a career season over small sample size of stats from previous years. Anderson and Copeland both had much improved sack numbers which was nice. The key factor for me will be seeing how certain players perform without Bowles, I am and would be willing to bet that we see on the field/in game improvements for most hold overs.

I am not a Mac defender. I think they both (mac and bowles) deserved to be fired, but I thought Bowles should have been fired after 2017 and the "waiving the white flag game".  If he bombs this draft I'm still on board getting  new GM. 

This year will be telling. That is for sure.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I agree that Bowles deserves no great praise for the examples I mentioned, but simply pointing out that any attempts to suggest that Maccagnan's horrific draft history is related to any supposed under-performance of players under Bowles has quite literally no evidence available to support it.  Maccagnan has a very large number of his draft picks that are off this team, and still not a single one of them has had the slightest bit of success elsewhere, showing that their issues go well beyond coaching.

I also would have been fine with the firings happening earlier than they did, but my position from the moment it even came up is that there would never be the slightest bit of justification for either one of Mac or Bowles to be given more opportunities than the other.  Actually, the only reason I was somewhat ok with Bowles getting another year after 2017, was to ensure that both him and Maccagnan stayed or left together.  There is still nothing that has happened to this point to suggest they had any reason to have done otherwise, despite the decision being made, and I find it to be quite literally the dumbest decision they could have made.  As much as we always want there to just be one guy to be to blame for it all, it never really works out that way.  Unfortunately, for all of us Jets fans, the list of people who ruin this team is usually far too long.

As far as improvements, I fully expect the likes of Darnold and Herndon to show continued improvement, as its a near guarantee if for no other reason than moving on from their rookie years (and they both already progressed over the course of that year, too).  But the next poorly performing player under Bowles to have success either with any other team or coach will be the very first, so I'm not as convinced as others it's such a sure thing.  Keep in mind, proper game-planning to best utilize all of your talents for team success, is a very different thing than individual player performance.  Bowles was unquestionably terrible at the former, but that in no way means he's responsible for the constant failure of the latter for Mac's acquisitions.  After all, there have been plenty of players in the NFL who have had tons of personal success, from Pro Bowls to All Pros to HOF careers, despite being on terrible teams.

Don't get me wrong, given that this is the situation we're in, I'd love to be wrong about this and have the Jets see great success, as Maccagnan shows to have found countless unrealized talents over the past few years, but there's unfortunately nothing we've seen to date to support that, so he deserves no benefit-of-the-doubt until proven otherwise.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

The only time drafting old rookies matters is when the player isn't good. The same goes with drafting young rookies who aren't good. In other words, age is irrelevant if the player is good. 

[freestater]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Leveon trying to buy his #...

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, freestater said:

I thought this was going to be a thread about Leveon trying to buy his #...

I clearly didn’t haha. Until it was too late. 

[joewilly12]

20 hours ago, roscoeword said:

Isnt Maye number 26? 

Yes figured by now we would have word on the situation. 

[Wonderboy]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 8:44 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Despite the fact that we're in the middle of our 3rd or 4th rebuild under Macc, we're currently something like the 10th oldest roster in the NFL.

Big Macccccc

3rd 4th Rebuild? Macc is more like a Cabbage Patch GM. 

 

[static14]

11 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

3rd 4th Rebuild? Macc is more like a Cabbage Patch GM. 

 

he's a sweet orphan that just need's someone to believe in him and love him?

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, roscoeword said:

Isnt Maye number 26? 

No that’s the number of injuries he’s had last 2 years

[Sperm Edwards]

On 3/26/2019 at 8:45 AM, #27TheDominator said:

Why does this ******* matter?  Marcus Maye is signed through 2020.  He will be 27.  Do you guys think his performance will suffer at that age? Shepherd will be 28 in the last year of his deal.  They will still be in their primes.  If you can get a discount on a guy because of age, take it.  The problem is that a bunch of you guys think you draft guys to have on the team for 10 years.  You don't 

This. 

On a veteran contract, we only really look at the guaranteed money, figuring there's at least a 50/50 chance he lasts only that long (90% chance with our GM, but I digest ). If he's less money because he'll be a 28 year old UFA that's fine with me, especially at a position that isn't reliant upon pure track star speed.

We should be far more concerned with us getting the pick right in the first place, and seeing him on the field during his rookie deal. Once he's past his rookie deal the wonderful bargain is over anyway, and with it the competitive advantage in building a contender. FFS Quincy Enunwa is now a $9MM/year player, and that's about half what we just gave Mosely. The time they're most valuable is on their cheap rookie deals - Mosely's deal was barely over $2MM/year; Enunwa's deal was 1/4 of that - not the expensive ones they sign after that, where the pair is ~$26MM rather than ~$3MM/year. 

Worrying if the second contract will commence at age 28 instead of age 27 is way down on the priority list. It's nice, but let's see if this is even an issue in 3 years when it's time for Macc to make his typical last-minute extension offer.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 3/26/2019 at 2:13 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep, and we'd be all buying Macc coffee if he ever produced a draft like this (regardless of how much influence Mangini had on the picks):

 

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2006	1	D'Brickashaw Ferguson	4	T	2015	0	3	10	56	160														Virginia
2006	1	Nick Mangold	29	C	2016	2	7	11	66	164									1	-3	0			Ohio St.
2006	2	Kellen Clemens	49	QB	2017	0	0	2	10	64	350	638	4053	16	21	85	227	3	0	0	0			Oregon
2006	3	Anthony Schlegel	76	LB	2007	0	0	0	2	17														Ohio St.
2006	3	Eric Smith	97	DB	2012	0	0	1	16	96									1	27	0	6	3.5	Michigan St.
2006	4	Brad Smith	103	QB	2014	0	0	1	17	127	4	10	51	1	2	134	972	4	104	987	5			Missouri
2006	4	Leon Washington	117	RB	2014	1	2	1	30	126	1	1	36	0	0	487	2271	16	168	1286	4			Florida St.
2006	5	Jason Pociask	150	TE	2007	0	0	0	0	4									1	7	0			Wisconsin
2006	6	Drew Coleman	189	DB	2011	0	0	0	9	83												4	8.0	TCU
2006	7	Titus Adams	220	DT	2009	0	0	0	0	2														Nebraska

Yeah I know he was just a 7th rounder, but Titus Adams not panning out was a bummer -- guy had a great name for a 300+ pound lineman.