Greg Gabriel: The hot name to the Jets at #3 - Ed Oliver

[bitonti]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

workout metrics lol

15th percentile of height

12th percentile of weight

26th percentile in arm length 

30th percentile in 3 cone

42nd in bench press 

 except for a decent 40 yard dash (5.12, 77th percentile), Jonah Williams is below average by every measurement

 

If the jets drafted this player I honestly don't think he'd play year 1. Unless he knows how to snap. 

[bitonti]

 

 

 

1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

 

Oliver has drawn comparisons to Rams All-Pro Aaron Donald, who played for new Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.  

physically he's a purer comp to Geno Atkins and Sheldon Rankins than Aaron Donald. But still it's the general trend 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

15th percentile of height

12th percentile of weight

26th percentile in arm length 

30th percentile in 3 cone

42nd in bench press 

 except for a decent 40 yard dash (5.12, 77th percentile), Jonah Williams is below average by every measurement

 

If the jets drafted this player I honestly don't think he'd play year 1. Unless he knows how to snap. 

But offense c’mon yo

[choon328]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

15th percentile of height

12th percentile of weight

26th percentile in arm length 

30th percentile in 3 cone

42nd in bench press 

 except for a decent 40 yard dash (5.12, 77th percentile), Jonah Williams is below average by every measurement

 

If the jets drafted this player I honestly don't think he'd play year 1. Unless he knows how to snap. 

Alabama wanted him to play at Center this past year but were forced to play him at tackle. He's built like a Center as well.

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Alabama wanted him to play at Center this past year but were forced to play him at tackle. He's built like a Center as well.

So let’s use the third pick of the draft on a Center

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Alabama wanted him to play at Center this past year but were forced to play him at tackle. He's built like a Center as well.

fair but even Centers need physical gifts

1st team All pro Jason Kelce was like 97th percentile in 3 cone and he's known for getting outside and lead blocking. A guy like that would be great for Darnold's rollouts or whatever. Williams isn't that guy either. He's a finesse guard maybe and if he gets picked in the top 20 it's a reach. Robert Gallery part deux 

[Philc1]

Oliver’s natural position in the nfl is 4-3 DE or DT.  

 

Thats not our scheme.  He doesn’t fit what we are doing at all he’s going to have to play in a 4-3

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

10 hours ago, cant wait said:

I’m smelling a conspiracy theory on this...

Here is the basic problem. A whole lot of good information just sort of becomes common knowledge out of nowhere during the exact same time that teams are blowing smoke. People are terrible at distinguishing between the two so feelings always prevail.

This shouldn't be hard. You've known all along that Ed Oliver wasn't the ninth-best prospect in this draft, right? So why is the fact that everybody has stopped acting like he is necessarily some indication of ****ery? 

[SMC]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Ok Sure but let me ask all the Jets fans who want edge rusher this question: when's the last time we saw TB12 get bothered by edge rush? 

Von Miller probably and that guy runs a 4.4 

I get why the league is trending toward inside pressure - it's all quick hitting passes now no one gets 3 seconds to throw and edge rushers dont get the 2.5 seconds to get there. 

Remember the Jets played Houston last season? They had Clowney in the 0 gap over Harrison all game 

everything is trending toward inside pressure. 

I'm not against an inside rusher.  I find an undersized, T-Rex armed DT with attitude and coachability problems to be problematic.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, SMC said:

I'm not against an inside rusher.  I find an undersized, T-Rex armed DT with attitude and coachability problems to be problematic.

what's to coach? See gap, shoot gap. find the ball.

It's not rocket science 

[section314]

1 hour ago, SR24 said:

Our only shot at moving back is if Murrays there at 3

Totally disagree. Think we will have better offers if Q. Williams is on the board at #3. Have yet to hear anyone refer to Murray as the best player in the draft or a generational player.

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

what's to coach? See gap, shoot gap. find the ball.

It's not rocket science 

Instincts and technique are a big part of interior DL.  Watt is a very smart player on top of an athletic freak

 

That’s why I love Quinnen

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Instincts and technique

MOAR DERPTALK PLAZ

[SR24]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

Totally disagree. Think we will have better offers if Q. Williams is on the board at #3. Have yet to hear anyone refer to Murray as the best player in the draft or a generational player.

I agree with your logic, Quinnens a stud and people will want him however getting the haul we'd require is more likely to happen with a QB on the board.

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

But nobody wants to trade up. 

Doesn't matter do it. Lol

[SMC]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

what's to coach? See gap, shoot gap. find the ball.

It's not rocket science 

Unfortunately for Oliver, he only did that 13.5 times in college.

 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Instincts and technique are a big part of interior DL.  Watt is a very smart player on top of an athletic freak

 

That’s why I love Quinnen

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, SMC said:

Unfortunately for Oliver, he only did that 13.5 times in college.

 

QW has better technique than Oliver it's true. Williams is known for his violent hand placement

Oliver has an overall suddenness that can't be coached however

his first step is deadly

again this assumes both are on the board and there's some sort of luxury pick between the 2 

they could both be gone and the Jets get Bosa 

however you slice it, i feel like Josh Allen is the 4th best player behind those 3 

 

[choon328]

24 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

So let’s use the third pick of the draft on a Center

That's not what I said but I could easily argue a Center would have way more impact on wins and losses next year than a DT. Especially since the NFL is a much more offensive favoring league right now. Average offenses don't make it to the playoffs but average defenses can make it to the Super Bowl. 

 

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, SMC said:

Unfortunately for Oliver, he only did that 13.5 times in college.

 

Novel observation changes much.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

That's not what I said but I could easily argue a Center would have way more impact on wins and losses next year than a DT. Especially since the NFL is a much more offensive favoring league right now. Average offenses don't make it to the playoffs but average defenses can make it to the Super Bowl. 

 

 

Harrison was fine at Center.   As good as Mangold was in retrospect we would have been better off keeping Abe and giving theCenter job to Goodwin who also had a good career with the saints

[choon328]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Harrison was fine at Center.   As good as Mangold was in retrospect we would have been better off keeping Abe and giving the job to Goodwin who also had a good career with the saints

Haha, okay  Scout Phil

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

 

QW has better technique than Oliver it's true. Williams is known for his violent hand placement

Oliver has an overall suddenness that can't be coached however

his first step is deadly

again this assumes both are on the board and there's some sort of luxury pick between the 2 

they could both be gone and the Jets get Bosa 

however you slice it, i feel like Josh Allen is the 4th best player behind those 3 

 

I think Oliver is going to be tremendous in the nfl but he’s a 4-3 DE if we draft him that needs to be our scheme

[derp]

37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

asking that question is like asking when's the last time a short QB went high in the draft. Russell Wilson went in the 3rd round! and then Baker goes 1.1 and Kyler in the mix etc.

The league changes fast, and sometimes, being old enough to remember when Makr Gastineau invented the doggie leg lift after a sack, forget how quickly it all changes. 

Also keep in mind the flip side of this conversation, edge rushers go against elite athletes like Lane Johnson. Inside rushers can feast on the Spencer Longs of the world 

I know you’re a smart guy and you know the draft. Short quarterbacks are legitimately a change in philosophy. Teams have wanted interior pressure forever. It goes back to trying to find the next Sapp in my memory of the draft and I’m sure in reality it goes back farther. Finding interior pressure to mimic Donald isn’t being open to short QB’s. It’s been happening forever.

The dominant guys are awesome when you can find them but they’re super, super rare. That’s why I asked the question about who would be worth that pick among guys in the league now. There are very few game wrecking interior DL in the NFL and it’s not like teams aren’t looking for them. They get drafted in the first round all the time, high in the first round too.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, derp said:

I know you’re a smart guy and you know the draft. Short quarterbacks are legitimately a change in philosophy. Teams have wanted interior pressure forever. It goes back to trying to find the next Sapp in my memory of the draft and I’m sure in reality it goes back farther. Finding interior pressure to mimic Donald isn’t being open to short QB’s. It’s been happening forever.

The dominant guys are awesome when you can find them but they’re super, super rare. That’s why I asked the question about who would be worth that pick among guys in the league now. There are very few game wrecking interior DL in the NFL and it’s not like teams aren’t looking for them. They get drafted in the first round all the time, high in the first round too.

the reality is that it's much easier to draft a DT at 3 who has elite measurables and the media/draft pundits love, than take an OL who has unimpressive metrics.  b/c if the DT becomes ordinary, like leonard williams, well, hey, everyone said it was a great pick so there's that.  

[derp]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

the reality is that it's much easier to draft a DT at 3 who has elite measurables and the media/draft pundits love, than take an OL who has unimpressive metrics.  b/c if the DT becomes ordinary, like leonard williams, well, hey, everyone said it was a great pick so there's that.  

Who cares what everyone says? At the end of the day Williams is a borderline guy to re-sign despite being drafted sixth overall. Repeating that would not be a good thing.

[hmhertz]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the reality is that it's much easier to draft a DT at 3 who has elite measurables and the media/draft pundits love, than take an OL who has unimpressive metrics.  b/c if the DT becomes ordinary, like leonard williams, well, hey, everyone said it was a great pick so there's that.  

Pussy Williams had below average measurables

[section314]

9 minutes ago, SR24 said:

I agree with your logic, Quinnens a stud and people will want him however getting the haul we'd require is more likely to happen with a QB on the board.

In a normal draft, 100% agree with you. Just don't think this is a normal year.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

15th percentile of height

12th percentile of weight

26th percentile in arm length 

30th percentile in 3 cone

42nd in bench press 

 except for a decent 40 yard dash (5.12, 77th percentile), Jonah Williams is below average by every measurement

 

If the jets drafted this player I honestly don't think he'd play year 1. Unless he knows how to snap. 

it will be interesting to see if the jets' use of analytics factors into who they draft.  if they choose oliver over some of these other top defensive players that would say a lot.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, PepPep said:

He traded for a former Pro Bowl OG, he resigned and added a bunch of depth at O-line, he signed T.Mongomery as a versatile RB who can catch and return. He signed an explosive slot receiver in Crowder. He signed possibly one of the top offensive FAs available and top RBs in the league (Bell).  Macc added proven veterans to the offense, investing most of the cap space he had available to fill in holes, give Darnold weapons, upgrade the O-line and add depth. Guys that will start or contribute immediately. The offseason is not over. There is still plenty of time for trades and FA additions as well as the draft. To suggest that if Macc drafts a defensive player #3 overall he is ignoring the defense this offseason is asinine.  

And why exactly did he have to do all of those things again?

[BigRy56]

Ed Oliver has no ceiling. It would be a little bit of a surprise of a pick because of the 3 guys we've heard about all draft season (QW, Bosa, and Allen), but Oliver is a great prospect and could easily be the best of the bunch.

[southtown24th]

SMOKE SCREENS

[UnitedWhofans]

THE SMOKE

[Jet Nut]

36 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

Pussy Williams had below average measurables

Sure he did.

[TheGoose]

1 hour ago, SMC said:

I'm not against an inside rusher.  I find an undersized, T-Rex armed DT with attitude and coachability problems to be problematic.

That wingspan though.

[cant wait]

2 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Here is the basic problem. A whole lot of good information just sort of becomes common knowledge out of nowhere during the exact same time that teams are blowing smoke. People are terrible at distinguishing between the two so feelings always prevail.

This shouldn't be hard. You've known all along that Ed Oliver wasn't the ninth-best prospect in this draft, right? So why is the fact that everybody has stopped acting like he is necessarily some indication of ****ery? 

I don’t disagree necessarily but it’s fun to speculate while we wait