Greg Gabriel: The hot name to the Jets at #3 - Ed Oliver

[PepPep]

On 4/19/2019 at 5:05 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

Sweet. More defense. These sh*tty seasons under Macaggnan have really been paying off.

He traded for a former Pro Bowl OG, he resigned and added a bunch of depth at O-line, he signed T.Mongomery as a versatile RB who can catch and return. He signed an explosive slot receiver in Crowder. He signed possibly one of the top offensive FAs available and top RBs in the league (Bell).  Macc added proven veterans to the offense, investing most of the cap space he had available to fill in holes, give Darnold weapons, upgrade the O-line and add depth. Guys that will start or contribute immediately. The offseason is not over. There is still plenty of time for trades and FA additions as well as the draft. To suggest that if Macc drafts a defensive player #3 overall he is ignoring the defense this offseason is asinine.  

[UnitedWhofans]

With that news that QW may go one, it makes sense if the interest in Oliver is out there trying to swing a trade

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

This would be a very anti-Mac pick, especially in Round 1. He has always gone the safe route. This complete boom or bust. He also doesn’t meet the typical old scout trait standards.

I love his motor. He’s an absolute animals wih a higher ceiling but lower floor than Q Williams. I’d be absolutely shocked and excited and worried all at once if this was the pick.

Ed Oliver is not "complete boom or bust" he's been the most highly touted defensive player in the country for 2+ years. The guy is an absolute lock to be a top 10 pick. Quinnen is a one year starter playing on the best team in the country- I could make the argument that he is a much riskier pick than Oliver. 

[bitonti]

 

 

1

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

 there are typically no leaks from this mccagnan regime.

the leaks are coming from the new coaches not the front office 

He got endless crap but people are going to miss how professional Todd Bowles was compared to Gase and Williams 

those guys stick their dicks out the school bus windows for fun 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the leaks are coming from the new coaches not the front office 

He got endless crap but people are going to miss how professional Todd Bowles was compared to Gase and Williams 

those guys stick their dicks out the school bus windows for fun 

my prediction is still that the jets trade out of 3.  i see them trading with the raiders or tampa, at the very least, and maybe the bengals or broncos.  if they go to 4 or 5 i see them taking oliver, but if they go to 10 or 11 i see them taking jonah williams and starting him at RT this year, with an eye towards making him the LT next season.

[SMC]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i am going on record Ed Oliver is a top 5 pick whether the Jets take him or not 

Aaron Donald was the sack leader this season .

not Garrett or Clowney or some other edge guy. It was an undersized DT, and the league about copycat situations 

by the way that D with Donald and Suh held the Pats to a score of 3-3 and 13 points total in the most recent superbowl. If Goff shows up they win the damn thing. 

Oliver isn't a red herring neither are Williams, they are both better prospects than Allen and maybe even Bosa.  

It cracks me up that because it's a copycat league that if a physically outlier player exceeds his draft position, teams are willing to over draft another outlier in the hopes of catching lightning in a bottle twice.

When a 1-legged WR makes it in the NFL, there is going to be a ton of scouting for 1-legged football players.

[BROOKLYN JET]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nevermind, I take it back.  Shane was right.  You suck, @BROOKLYN JET

 

58 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am vindicated and I'm changing my emoji back.

Screw you guys!

See what I did there.

[bitonti]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

my prediction is still that the jets trade out of 3.  i see them trading with the raiders or tampa, at the very least, and maybe the bengals or broncos.  if they go to 4 or 5 i see them taking oliver, but if they go to 10 or 11 i see them taking jonah williams and starting him at RT this year, with an eye towards making him the LT next season.

Jonah Williams has the same workout metrics as Jeff Allen

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/jonah-williams/

he's not better than Brandon Shell

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bitonti said:

Jonah Williams has the same workout metrics as Jeff Allen

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/jonah-williams/

he's not better than Brandon Shell

i read an interesting article about him on espn over the weekend.  he's an incredible preparer/student of the game.  i believe he'll be a good tackle, the guy spends hours going over opponents' pass rush moves, etc.  

besides the players considered to be top 5 material the other guys the jets brought in for private visits who would be in the 10 or so range, are jonah, dillard and fant.  so yeah i think if the trade back it's an OT.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, SMC said:

It cracks me up that because it's a copycat league that if a physically outlier player exceeds his draft position, teams are willing to over draft another outlier in the hopes of catching lightning in a bottle twice.

When a 1-legged WR makes it in the NFL, there is going to be a ton of scouting for 1-legged football players.

Ok Sure but let me ask all the Jets fans who want edge rusher this question: when's the last time we saw TB12 get bothered by edge rush? 

Von Miller probably and that guy runs a 4.4 

I get why the league is trending toward inside pressure - it's all quick hitting passes now no one gets 3 seconds to throw and edge rushers dont get the 2.5 seconds to get there. 

Remember the Jets played Houston last season? They had Clowney in the 0 gap over Harrison all game 

everything is trending toward inside pressure. 

[bitonti]

 

 

 

2

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i read an interesting article about him on espn over the weekend.  he's an incredible preparer/student of the game.   

that's great it won't grow his arms or make his feet faster 

the first round is for instant starter Pro Bowl hopefully gold jacket types

guys who are rare athletes 

there's a whole rest of the draft for incredible preparers 

[HighPitch]

Weird

i cant quote bitonti.

why? Anyone else i can quote but his button doesnt work.

i wanted to say....NOBODY will ever miss ANY aspect of todd bowles. nOBODY!!!!!!

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bitonti said:

that's great it won't grow his arms or make his feet faster 

the first round is for instant starter Pro Bowl hopefully gold jacket types

guys who are rare athletes 

there's a whole rest of the draft for incredible preparers 

this is my opinion.  there is an incredible need for competent tackles in the nfl and you need to start 2 of them every game.  like him or not, jw was quite competent in the SEC against many of the same pass rushers who will be drafted in round 1 this year and in subsequent years.  while i prefer dillard b/c he reminds me brick, i am nevertheless predicting the jets trade out and strongly consider both of these tackles with their first round pick.  not at 3 or 4, they'll still go defense there.  but if they're fortunate enough to get enough of a haul to move back, yeah, i think jw is in play.

[section314]

Just now, bitonti said:

Ok Sure but let me ask all the Jets fans who want edge rusher this question: when's the last time we saw TB12 get bothered by edge rush? 

Von Miller probably and that guy runs a 4.4 

I get why the league is trending toward inside pressure - it's all quick hitting passes now no one gets 3 seconds to throw and edge rushers dont get the 2.5 seconds to get there. 

Remember the Jets played Houston last season? They had Clowney in the 0 gap over Harrison all game 

everything is trending toward inside pressure. 

Along those lines. they have been playing a quote from Gil Brandt on Sirius NFL radio the last few weeks, basically saying" if you have two players rated equally, edge and interior guy, always go with interior. Closer to the ball, and gets to QB quicker if both guys are good pass rushers."

[bitonti]

 

 

 

2

Just now, Augustiniak said:

this is my opinion.  there is an incredible need for competent tackles in the nfl and you need to start 2 of them every game. .

the Jets have 2 competent tackles right now tho. Jonah Williams isn't an instant upgrade over Shell. It's not like the Giants starting Chad Wheeler or whoever is penciled in at Miami (Zach Sterup) 

what happens when the guy the Jets take in rd 1 can't crack the lineup? 

side note Mac has no inclination to do what you are saying, Historically. They sit and wait for value. even after trading up to 3 they got a guy who a month before everyone had at 1. not saying he wouldn't take an OL but he's not going to reach for any player 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bitonti said:

the Jets have 2 competent tackles right now tho. Jonah Williams isn't an instant upgrade over Shell. It's not like the Giants starting Chad Wheeler or whoever is penciled in at Miami (Zach Sterup) 

what happens when the guy the Jets take in rd 1 can't crack the lineup? 

side note Mac has no inclination to do what you are saying, Historically. They sit and wait for value. even after trading up to 3 they got a guy who a month before everyone had at 1. not saying he wouldn't take an OL but he's not going to reach for any player 

if the jets trade back to 10 or 11 and draft a tackle, they will consider it a value pick.  

i think shell sucks.

[derp]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok Sure but let me ask all the Jets fans who want edge rusher this question: when's the last time we saw TB12 get bothered by edge rush? 

Von Miller probably and that guy runs a 4.4 

I get why the league is trending toward inside pressure - it's all quick hitting passes now no one gets 3 seconds to throw and edge rushers dont get the 2.5 seconds to get there. 

Remember the Jets played Houston last season? They had Clowney in the 0 gap over Harrison all game 

everything is trending toward inside pressure. 

I absolutely get this. But we heard it for Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams, and frankly Coples to an extent. This isn’t a new idea. Drafting the elite athlete would be new for the Jets though.

The issue is that the guys who actually can do this are really rare and the Jets historically haven’t been good at identifying those guys. The ones who stay good are even more rare.

How many defensive tackles in the league would you spend a top 3 pick on and sign to a second contract - and how many of them were actually top three picks? 

[T0mShane]

You know what team has to be ridiculously desperate and has all the pieces in place except for an interior pass rush? The Vikings. Plus, Cousins has them up against the cap. Would you take #18, #50, their 2020 #1 (which should be low), #2, and some change? 18 puts you in prime position to grab the receiver, OL, or corner they need and 50 is where all the centers are projected to start coming off the board.  

[bitonti]

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think shell sucks.

Here's Brandon Shell's workout metrics

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/brandon-shell

Here's Jonah Williams

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jonah-williams

if Shell sucks, Williams blows 

 

[Adoni Beast]

27 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

With that news that QW may go one, it makes sense if the interest in Oliver is out there trying to swing a trade

QW goes 1

Bosa 2

We’d have Oakland, Cincy, and Washington calling off the hook for Murray.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bitonti said:

Here's Brandon Shell's workout metrics

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/brandon-shell

Here's Jonah Williams

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jonah-williams

if Shell sucks, Williams blows 

 

i think jw will be good b/c he allowed virtually no pressures all year in the SEC.  OL is one positional group where you can compensate to a degree for subpar metrics.  

[SR24]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

i am resigning myself to this reality.  at this point my realistic best case is swapping with the raiders and picking up an extra 3rd rounder.

Also making me realize how bad this is looking. Mac couldn't be any more public about his desire to move back and I'm not sure we've received a single offer for #3. Bottom line is we need Murray to somehow be there at 3 or else Im confident we'll be stuck at 3. Oliver/Quinnen/Allen at #3 are all good picks in their own regard going to be interesting. Also really interested to see if Rosen gets moved before the draft, could happen any minute 

[bitonti]

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, derp said:

 

How many defensive tackles in the league would you spend a top 3 pick on and sign to a second contract - and how many of them were actually top three picks? 

asking that question is like asking when's the last time a short QB went high in the draft. Russell Wilson went in the 3rd round! and then Baker goes 1.1 and Kyler in the mix etc.

The league changes fast, and sometimes, being old enough to remember when Makr Gastineau invented the doggie leg lift after a sack, forget how quickly it all changes. 

Also keep in mind the flip side of this conversation, edge rushers go against elite athletes like Lane Johnson. Inside rushers can feast on the Spencer Longs of the world 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, SR24 said:

Also making me realize how bad this is looking. Mac couldn't be any more public about his desire to move back and I'm not sure we've received a single offer for #3. Oliver/Quinnen/Allen at #3 are all good picks in their own regard going to be interesting. Also really interested to see if Rosen gets moved before the draft, could happen any minute 

nothing is going to be done until the jets are on the clock - for all we know murray may still be there.  

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i think jw will be good b/c he allowed virtually no pressures all year in the SEC.  OL is one positional group where you can compensate to a degree for subpar metrics.  

answer honestly, did you even click? 

[SR24]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

nothing is going to be done until the jets are on the clock - for all we know murray may still be there.  

Our only shot at moving back is if Murrays there at 3

[Augustiniak]

Just now, SR24 said:

Our only shot at moving back is if Murrays there at 3

i think our best shot is if murray is there, but not the only one.  teams panic and make bad decisions at drafts.  

[Il Mostro]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok Sure but let me ask all the Jets fans who want edge rusher this question: when's the last time we saw TB12 get bothered by edge rush? 

Von Miller probably and that guy runs a 4.4 

I get why the league is trending toward inside pressure - it's all quick hitting passes now no one gets 3 seconds to throw and edge rushers dont get the 2.5 seconds to get there. 

Remember the Jets played Houston last season? They had Clowney in the 0 gap over Harrison all game 

everything is trending toward inside pressure. 

Bingo.  Successful offenses have become adept of dealing with outside pass rush.  The perceived value of interior lineman who can bring pressure from up the middle is something that is going to continue to grow in the immediate future.   So, Oliver isn't an off the wall idea.  That said, I am still hoping they can get a haul of draft picks for #3.

[SR24]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think our best shot is if murray is there, but not the only one.  teams panic and make bad decisions at drafts.  

My hope is that NYG really is big on Haskins and we can get 6,17 but I’m fairly sure that ship has sailed. Washington is probably the most realistic but to go from 3 to 15 I need their first and second in this year and next years draft. I’m immediately flipping their 2nd rounder for Frank Clark 

[Philc1]

40 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

With that news that QW may go one, it makes sense if the interest in Oliver is out there trying to swing a trade

I’d rather have Allen

[Philc1]

Just now, SR24 said:

My hope is that NYG really is big on Haskins and we can get 6,17 but I’m fairly sure that ship has sailed. Washington is probably the most realistic but to go from 3 to 15 I need their first and second in this year and next years draft.

We aren’t getting two first round picks for Haskins

[NYs Stepchild]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You know what team has to be ridiculously desperate and has all the pieces in place except for an interior pass rush? The Vikings. Plus, Cousins has them up against the cap. Would you take #18, #50, their 2020 #1 (which should be low), #2, and some change? 18 puts you in prime position to grab the receiver, OL, or corner they need and 50 is where all the centers are projected to start coming off the board.  

Giving up the 3rd pick would be stupid, and other teams would never be dumb enough to trade up for the 3rd pick. 

 

 

[Philc1]

Jets need to draft one of Bosa, Allen or QW this is too frickin easy

[Barry McCockinner]

workout metrics lol

[peekskill68]

Manish has spoken...

--------------------------------------

Jets in love with Houston defensive tackle Ed Oliver, per sources: “He’s an alien.”

By Manish Mehta

| New York Daily News |

Apr 22, 2019 | 10:44 AM

The Jets’ desire to acquire more picks by trading down in the first round of NFL Draft Thursday night might not be fulfilled, setting up a potentially intriguing scenario.

Who should they select at No. 3?

Although I’ve been told that the Jets believe that Alabama defensive lineman Quinnen Williams is destined for stardom, folks in the building are infatuated with Houston defensive lineman Ed Oliver’s otherwordly skills.

“He’s an alien,” one team source told me about Oliver.

Oliver has strong support in the organization from those who believe that he has the tools to wear a gold jacket one day. There are, however, fair criticisms about him that have sparked a healthy debate on One Jets Drive.

The general sentiment is that Williams and Oliver can be instant game-wreckers and are on a higher plane than Kentucky’s Josh Allen, who would be the popular pick among a fanbase starving for an edge pass rusher.

My understanding is that general manager Mike Maccagnan also likes Allen, whose production (17 sacks in the SEC) is extremely impressive. Maccagnan has contractual control over the 53-man roster, so his opinion ultimately matters most.

Oliver is easily the most intriguing option for Gang Green. There are some folks on One Jets Drive enamored by his rare explosiveness and suddenness. He moves like a linebacker.

There are others who have questioned why those supreme athletic qualities didn’t result in better raw numbers in college.

Oliver only had 13 ½ sacks in 32 career games, but an eye-opening 53 tackles for loss. Houston played him an inordinate percentage of snaps at nose tackle in their 3-4 scheme, resulting in consistent double teams.

The 6-2, 7/8, 287-pound Oliver’s lack of size and length have prompted concern from some scouts across the league, but I’ve been told in no uncertain terms that the Jets, frankly, believe that is overblown. (My understanding is that Oliver actually played most of his career closer to 280 pounds.)

Oliver has drawn comparisons to Rams All-Pro Aaron Donald, who played for new Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. Truth be told, the Jets believe that comparison is fair even if Oliver isn’t as refined as a pass rusher coming out of college as Donald was coming out of the University of Pittsburgh.

Oliver’s relatively short arms (31 3/4 inches) prompted me to check his wingspan: It’s 77 3/8 inches.

Donald’s wingspan: 77 3/8 inches.

There’s also this fallacy that Oliver would not be a good scheme fit in Williams’ defense. Oliver would be perfect as a three-technique tackle (lining up on the outside shoulder of the guard) in Williams’ 3-4 penetrating one-gap scheme, as he’s a one-gap penetrator who moves like a linebacker -- and he was lining up at nose tackle.

Here’s another interesting element to the Oliver research: My understanding is that former Houston head coach Major Applewhite wasn’t the biggest fan of the player.

The player and coach had a notable public heated sideline exchange last season when an injured Oliver – gasp! – was wearing a jacket reserved only for active players on the sideline.

Applewhite was in line for a job on Adam Gase’s staff before an eleventh-hour change to accept a job as an analyst at Alabama. Applewhite has conveyed that Oliver might not be the easiest player to handle.

Regardless, the player’s prodigious gifts have gotten some on One Jets Drive wondering how many great things he could do for Gang Green.

Meanwhile, there’s a feeling inside the building that Allen might take more time to ultimately realize his potential.

Maccagnan has repeatedly said that he believes in taking the best player available. However, there are some on One Jets Drive who believe that he might actually address the team’s glaring need at edge pass rusher over a more highly rated player this time.

We’ll find out in a few days.