Training Camp Tweets (7/31)

[docdhc]

3 hours ago, Lith said:

 

23 months ago. 

To the day:

 

I’ll take darnold to herndon thank you very much!

[Apache 51]

What'd I miss?

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Apache 51 said:

What'd I miss?

We traded Darnold & Herndon to the Memphis Express in exchange for Hackenberg and Seferian-Jenkins. Douglas making moves.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Teams with good QBs have success going for it on fourth down. The Chargers were 7/8 on fourth down, the saints 13/16, KC 12/15, Seattle 11/14. The outlier were the Cheats, who were only 50% at 7/14. If your team is capable of making 4th downs at a 65+% clip, you should be going for it a lot more often and going for two every time. 

I agree that coaches generally get scared and play not to lose, but we see those trends changing, too. The guys getting the praise nowadays are the guys who put their foot on the gas and don't let up. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/fourthDownConvPct

Quite right.  But the NFL is a hella-Conservative business full of hella-conservative thinkers for the most part.  Metric analysis just hasn't reached them to that degree yet, certainly not enough to overcome old adage football thinking type issues like risk vs. reward.

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

We traded Darnold & Herndon to the Memphis Express in exchange for Hackenberg and Seferian-Jenkins. Douglas making moves.

If Sefarian-Jenkins really caught a pass from Hackenberg, we may have written him off too soon.  That takes a rare blend of catch radius, soft hands, and speed.

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

They didn't cut anybody.  They just didn't sign him to an exorbitant deal.  He also was "all-pro."  He made the pro bowl and missed a bunch of kicks at the end of the year after he was announced to the team.  He sucked in 2017.  He sucked at the end of 2018.  How dare we not pay  him!!!!!

FWIW, I am not a big Catanzaro fan either.  His career stats are very similar to Myers, but he is probably almost 5% better on extra points. 

Well said across the board.  Before last year, Myers was pretty much a complete bum for his NFL career.  He was cut mid-season in 2017 and left on the street the rest of the year, that's how bad he was.  The very same Seahawks who just paid him also had him in their camp last year and cut him in the middle of the preseason, which is when the Jets picked him up (yet continued to desperately look for a replacement for weeks after that, even into the regular season).  He undoubtedly had a good majority of the season, but as you mentioned his play took a serious dive at the end of the year.  He missed 3 XPs last year and it still gave him his best percentage on XPs for his career, which is pretty pathetic.

That said, I agree it doesn't make Catanzaro a good option either, and I must admit I'm baffled for them to still have no competition for him, while feeling the need to have a second punter to compete with Edwards.  Here's hoping they continue to keep an eye out as options become available throughout the next month.

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Darnold led the NFL in 20+ yard TDs last year- but yea he can’t throw deep

Is that in the air?

I'm not even sure where the narrative comes from that he can't throw deep, but I'm curious about the source of this stat.

[Bleedin Green]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Well, we'll see.

If we lose games due to kicks, and Myers plays well again, that's all the evidence I'll need it was a mistake.

Also, honestly, sounds like you want it both ways, support letting Myers go, don't support the new guy,  Playing up the "I'm right either way no matter what happens" angle, eh?

Yes, because as we all know, there are the only two guys in existence who can kick a football.

[Apache 51]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Teams with good QBs have success going for it on fourth down. The Chargers were 7/8 on fourth down, the saints 13/16, KC 12/15, Seattle 11/14. The outlier were the Cheats, who were only 50% at 7/14. If your team is capable of making 4th downs at a 65+% clip, you should be going for it a lot more often and going for two every time. 

I agree that coaches generally get scared and play not to lose, but we see those trends changing, too. The guys getting the praise nowadays are the guys who put their foot on the gas and don't let up. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/fourthDownConvPct

I put 4th downs in the same category as 3points, really hope not to see many unless they are needed to win the game.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I agree it doesn't make Catanzaro a good option either, and I must admit I'm baffled for them to still have no competition for him, while feeling the need to have a second punter to compete with Edwards. 

Have to wonder if that spare punter is there more for punt returner reps than as actual competition for Edwards. 

[Apache 51]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

Is that in the air?

I'm not even sure where the narrative comes from that he can't throw deep, but I'm curious about the source of this stat.

 Right, Darnold has touch. He will throw down the tracks once he gets timing and reps with receivers I have full faith in him to make any throw, when it's available.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Like I said, if Myers has another great year, and our kciker doesn't, that is the evaluation criteria for this decision.  If we lose games because of our kicker, that's the evaluation criteria.  

If that is they way you want to look at it, fine, but you also have to consider what it would take to keep the guy.  He got a fairly big money deal and he has been a sh*tty kicker up until now.  I don't think Catanzaro is any better, but they are comparable.   You are in love with Myers for one pro bowl?  When he missed 2 extra points and a field goal after he got that honor?  Besides, the 2018 Jets weren't exactly a pressure cooker.  

Quote

Explain why when the $2M is currently sitting unspent.  Was it your personal $2M?  Or do you value unspent cap space so much that you're ok with a worse player because he's cheaper for Woody to pay?  The saving is irrelevant to anyone other than Woody.  We don't get a bonus win for saving that $2M, but we certainly might lose games because we didn't spent it.

This one is even easier.  It isn't 2001.  Unused cap carries over.  IMO, $2M or $8-9M extra over 4 years on a kicker is wasted.  I don't think the kicker they have will necessarily be worse.  I believe there will be guys that are waived at final cut down that will also be comparable.  

I don't care enough about kickers to discuss this much more, but you asked the question.  It is interesting to me that so many people are worried about an inconsistent sh*tty kicker who lost his job in 2017 to Josh Lambo and was beaten out by geriatric Sebastian Janikowski.  This isn't the 2009 - 2010 Jets that have to fight for every game and an inch may mean the super bowl.   This is a team looking to find pieces.  You guys cry about losing guys like Woodhead?  Carrying two kickers is why you lose guys like that.  The time to dump Woodhead is when his sh*tty play on coverage teams are going to cost you a game (and almost the playoffs).  This year?  Who cares?  Get the pieces together and see what you have.  I'd rather the $2M goes toward that in 2020 than a kicker in 2019.

[UnknownJetFan]

5 hours ago, Lith said:

 

Is Hines working for Jets as a coach?. He has been coaching WR Anderson and is now working with TEs during drills. Seems like he is coaching for us one way or the other whether he is getting paid for it or not is the question. Excellent having him around no matter how you slice it due to his greatness. Can only rub off on our guys.

[docdhc]

Hines is a coaching intern. Only around for training camp. 

[Lith]

5 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Is Hines working for Jets as a coach?. He has been coaching WR Anderson and is now working with TEs during drills. Seems like he is coaching for us one way or the other whether he is getting paid for it or not is the question. Excellent having him around no matter how you slice it due to his greatness. Can only rub off on our guys.

Coaching intern brought in for camp.  Seems like a good guy to have around with a young receiving group.

[HelenOfTroy]

4 minutes ago, Lith said:

Coaching intern brought in for camp.  Seems like a good guy to have around with a young receiving group.

Good.  Let him teach the receivers to knock the snot out of mouthy defensive players.  ?

[Warfish]

55 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yes, because as we all know, there are the only two guys in existence who can kick a football.

 

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

I would have paid Myers long before Can't-izarro started having his predictably horrible camp.

It seems such an odd decision, to cut an all-pro kicker going into our first real year of possibility for winning, over cap space we didn't end up spending far as I know.  What did we save, exactly?  I know what we could lose, multiple games, but what did we gain by letting go?

Just a Little while ago I was pilloried for this very same observation and it is just another reason why Mac should have been fired prior to him doing STUPID things like this!!!!

[thshadow]

2 hours ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

That’s because Brady and Mahomes got the ball out on time to the right guys. Darnold vacated the pocket too quickly leaving him more difficult throws. 

Except that in those last 4 weeks (which is when that stat was from), he was the highest rated QB in the NFL.  And I don't have to look up whether or not he had the highest rated OL in the NFL.

So I have no clue what you're drawing that conclusion from, but if you're saying he was wrong, then I don't want him to be right.

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, Lith said:

 

This report DESERVES THIS!!!!

 

[BurnleyJet]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Is that Robbie off shot with the nut job..

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

Darnold led the NFL in 20+ yard TDs last year- but yea he can’t throw deep

 

[BurnleyJet]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I read that Myers is 22-23 in FG attempts so far this TC. 

Specials don’t often win you games, but they sure often lose you them. MacCoffee seemed to underrate them, along with the Oline.

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Specials don’t often win you games, but they sure often lose you them. MacCoffee seemed to underrate them, along with the Oline.

...and WRs.  And Special Teams.  

[flgreen]

2 hours ago, rammagen said:

that is not true there were several more players including vets that did not like him. it was more the three players including vets that would surprise you

https://www.thephinsider.com/2018/12/31/18162804/former-miami-dolphins-players-taking-shots-at-adam-gase-firing-head-coach-nfl-fired-twitter

What a surprise.  Malcontent players who were crap canned after one season bad mouthing the HC who fired them.  And reporters blowing it all out of proportion.  

Adam Gase's rapport with players a major part of building Dolphins' new culture

Jun 27, 2017

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  James WalkerESPN Staff Writer

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DAVIE, Fla. -- Although the incident happened months ago, Miami Dolphins coach Adam Gase gave a public mea culpa recently during mandatory minicamp.

Gase was asked about one of his biggest miscalculations during his first head-coaching season, when most things went right. The coaching staff decided to limit playing time for perennial Pro Bowl defensive end Cameron Wake during the first five games because he was coming off an Achilles injury. Miami went 1-4 in that span before Gase changed course.

 

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“I made a mistake. I should have been playing him more early,” Gase said in retrospect. “We were trying to think long term. ... We thought we were being smart and it backfired on us. What we should have done was just let him play.”

Wake, who finished the year with a team-high 11.5 sacks and his fifth Pro Bowl nod, appreciated the public apology from his coach.

“Well, we’re all human, right? We all make mistakes,” Wake said last week. “Players make them on the field. Coaches make them off the field. As a man in this game, you’ve got to be able to admit when that happens. I think there are probably other coaches who don’t do that, and obviously with him being a different kind of guy, I think that’s part of the reason why guys respect him, why guys relate to him and why guys love him.”

Heading into his second season as head coach, Adam Gase has the Dolphins' full attention. Photo by Rich Barnes/Getty Images

Gase’s rapport and open communication with his players are major building blocks in Miami's new culture. Although players won’t say it publicly, Gase’s ability to relate with players is a significant upgrade over former coach Joe Philbin, who is 16 years older and doesn’t have the same charisma and presence.

Receiver Kenny Stills was Miami’s biggest in-house free agent this offseason. He received serious interest from three teams, including the Dolphins. Stills, who signed a four-year, $32 million extension in March, reportedly took less money to return to Miami and cited his rapport with Gase as a big reason.

When Stills and several teammates decided to take a knee during the national anthem for every game last year to protest social injustice against minorities, Gase and the Dolphins offered their support. These are the kinds of situations that build loyalty and trust among players.

“Our relationship is unique, because of him, and he allows that with this team and with the guys on this team,” Stills explained. “I feel like that’s a part of this building being special. He really, genuinely cares about us and is looking out for us and wants what’s in our best interest. So it makes it easy to play for a guy like that.”

Dolphins backup running back Damien Williams was a restricted free agent who visited with the rival New England Patriots in the spring. Because of his respect for Gase, Williams kept Miami’s coach up-to-date throughout the process before re-signing.

“Me and Coach Gase never stopped talking from the moment we ended our last game until now,” Williams said. “We always kept in contact. We always talked. He loves what we’re building here and I love what we’re building here, so there was no point in leaving.”

The culture starts at the top, with Gase and Dolphins owner Stephen Ross setting the tone. As an organization, Miami has made a point of investing in the totality of the player, not just what happens on the field.

Ross, for example, hosted a “business combine” in February for 16 of his players to learn about various aspects of the financial world and help with life after football. Director of player engagement Kaleb Thornhill also has done a great job with additional programs and handling day-to-day issues, according to Gase.

“When we’re in the building, it’s not always football,” Gase said. “Our coaches do a good job investing in what our players enjoy doing outside of the building -- their families and kids. I think that’s something to be said for our coaching staff, because our players know that we actually are invested in them, not only as a player but as a person.”

Tight end Julius Thomas was acquired this offseason in a trade with the Jacksonville Jaguars and is new to Miami’s culture. But Thomas spent four seasons with Gase when they were with the Denver Broncos, so Thomas knew the kind of coach and leader he was rejoining.

“Not only is he a guy that I think is one of the best football minds -- he’s really good at teaching and instructing -- but he’s also somebody that I consider a friend and somebody that I trust in this game,” Thomas said of Gase. “To have that marriage is pretty good.”

In just a short time, Gase has been able to build strong bonds and command the respect of players throughout his locker room, a factor that cannot be overlooked as he attempts to lead the Dolphins to back-to-back playoff appearances for the first time since Miami made the playoffs five straight years after the 1997-2001 seasons.

 

 

However, when questioned about veterans on the roster standing up to Gase this season, receiver Kenny Stills replied in a tweet, “I don’t know who your source is, but this is completely false. I’ve never publicly or privately “disavowed” Coach Gase. Nothing but love for the Gase family.”

Fellow receiver Albert Wilson, who has been out most of the season following a hip injury, tweeted, “a full year I could of shown how much of a genius he was!”https://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/20181231/player-reactions-vary-after-adam-gase-fired-by-dolphins

Adam Gase likes having players come in to help

Posted by Darin Gantt on July 7, 2017, 6:34 AM EDT

Getty Images

Dolphins coach Adam Gase has quickly earned a reputation as a player’s coach.

Part of that could be for his willingness to turn to former players for help.

Via Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, the latest to drop in was longtime NFL cornerback Dre Bly.

Bly spent a week working with the Dolphins’ defensive backs, “bouncing knowledge to guys” on the field and the meeting room, according to defensive back Jordan Lucas.

Bly and Gase crossed paths in Detroit, when Gase was a scouting assistant and coaching assistant with the Lions.

The two-time Pro Bowl corner joined a list of guest instructors which includes Wes Welker, Chris Chambers and others who have spent time there this offseason.

While many coaches will treat their meeting rooms and sideline access as sacred, Gase’s openness to others is an interesting approach, and perhaps part of the reason players have responded so well to him.

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, flgreen said:

What a surprise.  Malcontent players who were crap canned after one season bad mouthing the HC who fired them.  And reporters blowing it all out of proportion.  

You're not even a little concerned that the list includes Ajayi, Gore and Drake?  When the Jets locked a fortune up for a #1 back that isn't shy?  

[thshadow]

For all of the kicker conversations in this thread.  Not sure if you noticed in the KRL report, but he was 3 for 3 when Lachlan Edwards held, and 1 for 3 when the other punter Darr held.  Not sure if this is a constant with his other misses, but there's a possibility that his problems are holder related...

 

[jetsons]

7 hours ago, kdels62 said:

 

Personally that's not something I want to see... I don't want Crowder returning kicks, I prefer Dortch or Cannon doing that.

[#27TheDominator]

56 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Specials don’t often win you games, but they sure often lose you them. MacCoffee seemed to underrate them, along with the Oline.

I hated Maccagnan as much as the next guy, but he found an all pro returner and pro bowl kicker and you are still bashing him for underrating special teams?  WTF? 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I hated Maccagnan as much as the next guy, but he found an all pro returner and pro bowl kicker and you are still bashing him for underrating special teams?  WTF? 

Maybe because after finding them, he let them both walk out the door after one season.  I can live with the Roberts decision but the K situation is concerning.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, jetsons said:

Personally that's not something I want to see... I don't want Crowder returning kicks, I prefer Dortch or Cannon doing that.

Crowder returns punts, not kicks.  I think you should get used to it.  It is pretty likely that Crowder is going to be our primary punt returner.  He returned basically every punt the Redskins saw for his first 3 years, and they had Andre Roberts. He has over 80 career punt returns.

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, kdels62 said:

@T0mShane

 

 

This is what a tool posts when given a press pass.

[Bleedin Green]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I hated Maccagnan as much as the next guy, but he found an all pro returner and pro bowl kicker and you are still bashing him for underrating special teams?  WTF? 

He definitely deserves credit for the Roberts signing, but when you pick a kicker up off the scrap heap late in the preseason who's kicked in the 70s the prior 2 years and been cut twice since then, the season that followed is more a matter of blind luck than any great deal of prioritization being given for the position.

[jetsons]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Crowder returns punts, not kicks.  I think you should get used to it.  It is pretty likely that Crowder is going to be our primary punt returner.  He returned basically every punt the Redskins saw for his first 3 years, and they had Andre Roberts. He has over 80 career punt returns.

kicks... meaning punts/kickoffs... I thought that was obvious. 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, jetsons said:

kicks... meaning punts/kickoffs... I thought that was obvious. 

I get that, but Crowder is a punt returner.  Having him return punts is not surprising.  I think he has one kick return in his career.  I'd be concerned if he were doing that, but returning punts is standard operating procedure for Crowder.