PFF on Quinnen Williams

[Losmeister]

27 minutes ago, Eaton Beaver said:

I was in favor of picking Josh Allen if Bosa wasn't available,

ME too. I think there are at least 6-12 posters here who felt that way...

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, Eaton Beaver said:

Darnold just won 3 games in a row, where the offense scored 34 points in each game. Why all the hate for him, what has Williams done at all this season. Time for all the delusional people to think before they post, it is getting ridiculous.

the defense got the ball back for the offense about 100 times in the Bengals game 

they gave up 22 total points 

Sam Darnold was just outplayed by Andy Dalton 

I don't hate anyone by the way just saying the defense isn't the problem in fact they've been professionals all season, QW included

But it's hard to have any faith in the offense after Cinci shut them down. That was bad, dude 

 

[RobR]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Look at Ed Oliver's game by game log 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OlivEd00.htm

he hasn't started the last 5 games

the opposite is true of QW

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillQu00.htm

 

You also said he missed a game which is false.

Sprinkled in also doesn't equal the most snaps on his team at the DT position.

The truth is you looked at some stats and made assumptions. Assumptions that were wrong.

[phill1c]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I apologize. Allow me to make the point in a less inflammatory manner.

ahem

ok

Quinnen Williams over the last four games: 148 snaps, 4 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 QB hits, 1 TFL.

 

Your stats might be more persuasive--to those outside of your echo chamber--if you pointed out the stats of some other players you've compared him to. Because I've seen that stat line from lots of guys who are actually impactful. And not rookies without a large enough body of work.

You're like a pit bull with a chew toy on a guy just trying to find himself.

But since we're bringing up stat lines:

4 TDs, 8 INTs, an average rating 63.

So, should we be shopping him? No, we shouldn't.

You can whip yourself up into a frenzy (as if you're not already) but you have nothing but cherry picked anecdotal evidence, which tends to be unpersuasive to people not predisposed to your opinion. You want him to be a dud, more power to you...but you're not being persuasive with what you've laid out.

 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

the stats of some other players you've compared him to

I’ve never compared Quinnen Williams to anyone. He’s a disappointment on his own merits.

[jetscrazey]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

how about maybe dont compare Defensive tackle to Edge rush using sack stats 

the defense honestly isn't the problem with this Jets team and we all know it

that last game the D gave the offense the ball back time after time after time... they were only down 2 scores couldn't even get a garbage time TD 

the offense should be able to score 23 points against Cinci, bottom line 

everyone who complains about Quinnen Williams needs to focus on the offense. Williams, for the record, will be fine. 

we can't say the same about the fraud at HC or the Capitrano Beach native who missed a month with the kissing disease 

 

It's very simple: You don't draft interior d-line in the top 5.  You always draft the edge guy in that situation.  No interior lineman is worth a top 5 pick unless it's Aaron Donald or JJ Watt, whom Quinnen Williams has never been mistaken for.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Tons of us here did.  And thus far, we were right.

A handful.  The mythical tons of us.  Tons of us who wanted Watson.  Tons of us who wanted Mahomes.  Used to be tons of us who wanted Carr, until he went downhill, now no one does.  LOL

[ZachEY]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

A handful.  The mythical tons of us.  Tons of us who wanted Watson.  Tons of us who wanted Mahomes.  Used to be tons of us who wanted Carr, until he went downhill, now no one does.  LOL

Is your argument now that there weren't a lot of posters pulling for Ed Oliver pre-draft?

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

A handful.  The mythical tons of us.  Tons of us who wanted Watson.  Tons of us who wanted Mahomes.  Used to be tons of us who wanted Carr, until he went downhill, now no one does.  LOL

This took like 3 minutes... Here's the first one I found.  You may know Mogglez, your son..  Part of of the "mythical tons of us"...

On 12/25/2018 at 1:38 AM, Mogglez said:

The 49ers and Arizona hold those picks and both have QBs.  I'd be stunned if they took either one of those players.  I don't think they trade out either.  The value isn't there.

Bosa and Ed Oliver go 1 & 2, IMO.

Or JiF

On 12/11/2018 at 9:47 AM, JiF said:

If I'm the Jets, this is how my draft looks hypothetically. 

1st: Ed Oliver or BAP pass rusher- sucks going DL that early but that will be the value picking top 5 (I'd look for a trade back but doubt Mac pulls it off).

 2nd: if there is a skillz prospect you love, considering using assets to move up but I personally, would not.  I love some of what I think will be 3rd round value though it's very subject to change

3rd: Deebo Samuel and Bennie Snell Jr. 

4th: Tyree Brady or Emanuel Hall should be available.   Big play burners.

5th: OL

6th: OL

7th: OL

And I'm buying OL in FA.  The learning curve for OL in the new NFL has been brutal.  I'd prefer to find plug and play guys in FA to ensure Sam is protected and we're not gambling on a draft pick.  I'd also probably look at add a FA WR, Jamison Crowder.  Someone to get open underneath and move the chains.  I'm also buying Bell if he'll come here but he wont.

Boom!  Offense fixed.

Paradis:

On 12/3/2018 at 3:44 PM, Paradis said:

As disgusting as i feel saying this, I'd rather take Ed Oliver, a DT (hahaha) or maybe more pointedly, OLB Josh Allen, then reach on a LT... I haven't heard anyone fall out of their chairs yet for any of these guys, only that's it is a reasonably strong class... and i ain't no good at grading them on film. 

RobR

On 1/4/2019 at 11:23 PM, RobR said:

Top three....Ok maybe four:

Oliver

Bosa

Haskins/  Quennin Williams.

Jonah Williams is close to cracking that top three with a dominant performance Monday.

And then next month will happen.

Paradis, again:

On 1/5/2019 at 12:58 PM, Paradis said:

1 - bosa (i guess)

2 - Allen

3 - Oliver

4 - williams 

The variation (Lack of) in these replies says it all.  We should have a top 3 people you want to see make it on the team outside of rnd 1. that would be more interesting and fun to track in 4 months.

sec101row23:

On 1/29/2019 at 9:31 AM, sec101row23 said:

I tend to agree.  His value is pretty inflated right now.  I don’t think he is some special rare talent.  He has one year of production, I’d be very careful with him.  Ed Oliver is a better interior prospect.  

Shane:

On 3/19/2019 at 9:34 PM, T0mShane said:

The fear with drafting Quinnen Williams, too, is that someone is going to draft Ed Oliver ten picks later and he’s probably the better player. 

RobR, again:

On 3/6/2019 at 9:22 PM, RobR said:

That guy is Ed Oliver, not QW.

Dearly departed Miss Lonelyhearts:

On 3/29/2019 at 1:21 PM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

DT fatigue and Leonard Williams are not good reasons to avoid taking Quinnen Williams.

Ed Oliver and Nick Saban are good reasons to avoid taking Quinnen Williams.

And, of course, yours truly:

 

[JTJet]

7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This took like 3 minutes... Here's the first one I found.  You may know Mogglez, your son..  Part of of the "mythical tons of us"...

Or JiF

Paradis:

RobR

Paradis, again:

sec101row23:

Shane:

RobR, again:

Dearly departed Miss Lonelyhearts:

And, of course, yours truly:

 

Let's just leave him alone lol. We have more than proven our point with actual facts to someone who cant admit he is wrong and leave it at that. 

He is a "Flat-Earther", Kyrie Irving would be proud. 

 

[ZachEY]

Just now, JTJet said:

Let's just leave him alone lol. We have more than proven our point with actual facts to someone who cant admit he is wrong and leave it at that. 

He is a "Flat-Earther", Kyrie Irving would be proud. 

 

Oh come on, you have to admit, you can't stop before you point out that the guy's own son is someone who he just said essentially doesn't exist.

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This took like 3 minutes... Here's the first one I found.  You may know Mogglez, your son..  Part of of the "mythical tons of us"...

Or JiF

Paradis:

RobR

Paradis, again:

sec101row23:

Shane:

RobR, again:

Dearly departed Miss Lonelyhearts:

And, of course, yours truly:

 

The better example to use from me would be:

 

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This took like 3 minutes... Here's the first one I found.  You may know Mogglez, your son..  Part of of the "mythical tons of us"...

Or JiF

Paradis:

RobR

Paradis, again:

sec101row23:

Shane:

RobR, again:

Dearly departed Miss Lonelyhearts:

And, of course, yours truly:

 

Boy oh boy.  I don't rate. 

Though, for the record, I wasn't particularly banging the drum for Watson or Mahomes.  I just thought they made more sense. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, JiF said:

The better example to use from me would be:

 

I spent like 3 minutes on this, and only looked at "Ed Oliver."  Meaning, any posts that just said "Oliver" weren't even in the search.

But, that's a good post.  I'd hire you:

Quinnen Williams - one year wonder that disappeared on the biggest stage in the college playoffs.  While Quinnen was ok at rushing the passer at Alabama surrounded by all world talent, he's not going to be a pass rusher in the NFL.  He'll be a run stuffer and that's not the type of DT you take at #3 overall.  Quinnen might end up being a good to great player in the NFL but more in the mold of a clog in the line and ingulf the ball carrier rather than an attacking and pursuing the QB, which is what the Jets need and the real value of having the #3 overall pick.

[ZachEY]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Boy oh boy.  I don't rate. 

Though, for the record, I wasn't particularly banging the drum for Watson or Mahomes.  I just thought they made more sense. 

Again, not an anthology, I'm sure there were plenty more.  I just grabbed a bunch until I found one of mine.  You're welcome to join the "mythical tons of us."  I'm getting t-shirts made up.

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I spent like 3 minutes on this, and only looked at "Ed Oliver."  Meaning, any posts that just said "Oliver" weren't even in the search.

But, that's a good post.  I'd hire you:

Quinnen Williams - one year wonder that disappeared on the biggest stage in the college playoffs.  While Quinnen was ok at rushing the passer at Alabama surrounded by all world talent, he's not going to be a pass rusher in the NFL.  He'll be a run stuffer and that's not the type of DT you take at #3 overall.  Quinnen might end up being a good to great player in the NFL but more in the mold of a clog in the line and ingulf the ball carrier rather than an attacking and pursuing the QB, which is what the Jets need and the real value of having the #3 overall pick.

Thank you.  If you hired me 3 years ago, we'd be watching Deshaun Watson handing off to Dalvin Cook and throwing to Chris Godwin on the New York Jets.  Then add Ed Oliver to the mix.  How groovy would that be? 

If you want to get real spooky with it and do the domino effect from there; we would have had the two 2nd round picks necessary to pick Deebo Samuel and Ben Banogu who has more sacks than Q. Will.   We'd also have Mike McGlinchey and Christian Kirk instead of Sammy D in that scenario but all good...

I'm still holding out hope that Sammy and Joe Douglas can turn this around! 

 

[RobR]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

The better example to use from me would be:

 

Can you find the one where Jetnut says he wants the Jets to draft Josh Allen?

[Tony The Wiz]

On 12/1/2019 at 10:20 PM, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

DI Quinnen Williams, New York Jets

This may be the most surprising rookie performance of the 2019 season. After recording the highest single-season grade of any defensive player we have graded in the PFF College era at 96.0, Quinnen Williams was getting a lot of attention and was even being considered by some to be a better prospect than the second overall pick Nick Bosa. Williams ended up going third overall to the New York Jets and everyone thought they got the safest pick in the Draft. Thus far in 2019, that’s not even remotely close to being the case.

Williams has produced an overall grade of 67.4, ranking 46th among 76 interior defensive linemen. He has made a few plays in run defense and made his way to the 37th best run-defense grade at 70.5. However, Williams’ run-defense isn’t the issue – it’s his pass-rushing. Williams drops all the way down to 60th in PFF pass-rush grade at 57.2, has produced pressure at an astronomically low rate of 4.7% and has won on just 7.3% of his reps. 

Injury had gotten to Williams early on, but he’s been healthy as of late and has still made little to no impact plays. There’s more optimism with Williams than any other rookie in PFF’s stock down report, but his play thus far is certainly cause for concern.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-stock-up-stock-down-nfl-rookies-week-13-2019

 

Defensive tackle takes awhile in the NFL. Yeah you get players like Aaron Donald who takes the NFL by storm. This kid is young and he will progress. Is he another Donald?!  No.  But he will get way better.  

[Beerfish]

Dislikes:

Quinnen Williams

DK Metcalfe

Rashan Gary

Jachai Polite

Greedy Williams

All Quarterbacks

 

Metcalfe has been pretty good, i think greedy has done all right.  Asshat mccagnan of course picked two of my dislikes much like he did with darron lee and hackenburg.

[T0mShane]

32 minutes ago, JiF said:

The better example to use from me would be:

 

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

That was a very nice response to my topic echoing what I was saying in more colorful manner. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Is your argument now that there weren't a lot of posters pulling for Ed Oliver pre-draft?

Not a “sh*t ton”, yes that’s the argument.  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

This took like 3 minutes... Here's the first one I found.  You may know Mogglez, your son..  Part of of the "mythical tons of us"...

Or JiF

Paradis:

RobR

Paradis, again:

sec101row23:

Shane:

RobR, again:

Dearly departed Miss Lonelyhearts:

And, of course, yours truly:

 

You do realize things like “because of Saban etc” isn’t I want Oliver.  Or that pre draft people mention everyone?  I wanted Allen, went back and forth more than a few times between him, Allen & Williams.   Bosa, Allen, Oliver Williams or the variation of these says it all isn’t I want Oliver.  

And not close to a shlt ton

[sirlancemehlot]

On 12/2/2019 at 12:21 AM, Wonderboy said:

What offer????

They were going to trade us back Jachai Polite and a conditional 7th.

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

A handful.  The mythical tons of us.  Tons of us who wanted Watson.  Tons of us who wanted Mahomes.  Used to be tons of us who wanted Carr, until he went downhill, now no one does.  LOL

I remember being called a retard because I wanted Allen.  “he has no moves”

[ZachEY]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You do realize things like “because of Saban etc” isn’t I want Oliver.  Or that pre draft people mention everyone?

And not close to a shlt ton

Oh give it up... How many would it take for you to admit you’re wrong?  Is there a specific number?

And the mention of Saban came from Lonelyharts, who banged the drum louder than anyone for Oliver.

Have a modicum of integrity and just admit you’re wrong.

[CTM]

47 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Oh give it up... How many would it take for you to admit you’re wrong?  Is there a specific number?

And the mention of Saban came from Lonelyharts, who banged the drum louder than anyone for Oliver.

Have a modicum of integrity and just admit you’re wrong.

I didnt want Oliver because I didnt want defense but he was by far my favorite of the lot. There definitely was a strong contigent of people saying Oliver was the better prospect. In fact I think 80 started a Q thread and it quickly become Oliver focused so much so that he edited the title.

[Barkus]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

ME too. I think there are at least 6,012 posters here who felt that way...

Fixed your typo

[ZachEY]

19 minutes ago, CTM said:

I didnt want Oliver because I didnt want defense but he was by far my favorite of the lot. There definitely was a strong contigent of people saying Oliver was the better prospect. In fact I think 80 started a Q thread and it quickly become Oliver focused do kich do that he edited the title.

In the abstract, I didn't want defense either.  But there was no offensive player to be taken there, so Oliver was the pick.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

In the abstract, I didn't want defense either.  But there was no offensive player to be taken there, so Oliver was the pick.

True, was hoping for the trade back.

[Bugg]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

How come Sam Darnold gets the "he's only 22 treatment" but guys like Quinnen Williams (at 21 years of age) are insta-busts

Problem is Coffee Boy sold him as the impact DT along the lines of Ngata and Donald. He isn't that strong nor fast. I don't put much stock in the combine, but he begged off the bench; that should have been a huge red flag. He's getting singled most plays by a center who is coming out of his crouch. To repeat; he's being singled by a  lineman  who by position is at a disadvantage for a split second starting every play. If you're going to be  top end DT, you have to live in the weight room, and by eyeballs , and Q does not. He was a good college guy playing on a superior defense which was ahead a lot in most games; wasn't like he much worried about nor developed any technique. The guys he's going against now are bigger and stronger, and he has no answer. 

Q appears to be a nice kid, but if he wants to have an NFL career he needs to start lifting, a lot, right now. And how this doesn't appear to have happened, hold out or not. That's on him and on the organization.  

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

(If we remember I was making posts pre draft like Ed Oliver no matter what) 

but funny thing about Ed Oliver: he got all his sack stats in the last month... 

WHEN HES BEEN COMING OFF THE BENCH 

they started him the first like 9 weeks and he had 1 sack maybe. He missed a week then he's been sprinkled in i.e. not a starter for weeks 11, 12 and 13. They are not using Ed Oliver on obvious run downs as much and keeping him fresh for pass rush situations.  The Jets are using Q differently (and he did miss a few weeks with an injury)

the point of this? Quinnen came from a rotation at Bama he's going to be a rotation player and when the Jets get a better rotation (like Buffalo) they could get more production from Q. Ed Oliver had to be an every down NT for Houston but he is a rotation player as well.   Both of these guys will likely be really good. 

Is he perfect no, but there are about 99 problems worse and more troubling on this team than the development of Quinnen Williams. 

Every DL guy in the NFL is part of a rotation. It's how things are ; almost nobody plays every down. What was shocking Sunday was Q was not part of the jets' short yard/goalline package. 

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Tony The Wiz said:

Defensive tackle takes awhile in the NFL. Yeah you get players like Aaron Donald who takes the NFL by storm. This kid is young and he will progress. Is he another Donald?!  No.  But he will get way better.  

Ones who do not spend their days bench pressing Hondas never amount to anything. The specific example of a DT who "took a while"-Leo Williams? 

[JTJet]

13 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Problem is Coffee Boy sold him as the impact DT along the lines of Ngata and Donald. He isn't that strong nor fast. I don't put much stock in the combine, but he begged off the bench; that should have been a huge red flag. He's getting singled most plays by a center who is coming out of his crouch. To repeat; he's being singled by a  lineman  who by position is at a disadvantage for a split second starting every play. If you're going to be  top end DT, you have to live in the weight room, and by eyeballs , and Q does not. He was a good college guy playing on a superior defense which was ahead a lot in most games; wasn't like he much worried about nor developed any technique. The guys he's going against now are bigger and stronger, and he has no answer. 

Q appears to be a nice kid, but if he wants to have an NFL career he needs to start lifting, a lot, right now. And how this doesn't appear to have happened, hold out or not. That's on him and on the organization.  

Let's not forget that the competition he faced in the SEC isnt exactly known for pumping out offensive lineman specifically. 

If he played against Big10/Big12 O-Lines, I would be curious how his production would have been. Those conferences churn out lineman like a well oiled factories.  

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

are we talking about Williams or Darnold? 

please be more specific about which 3rd overall pick is under performing worse 

Darnold was just the HIghest Rated QB in the NFL for the Month of November.

Darnold was the HIghest Rated QB in the NFL over the final quarter of 2018.

He has shown way more than just Flashes.  Does he have have leaks in his game at this point while playing the most difficult position in all of pro sports?  Absolutely.

I just want to see more "bang for the buck" out of Q Williams.  I realize you can't expect double digit sacks from a DT along with game changing plays....but that is why you DO NOT draft that position unless you KNOW you're getting Reggie White or Aaron Donald.