Opinion: Le'Veon Bell played 10-15 lbs heavier than ideal

[RoadFan]

I was one the strongest supporters of signing Bell.  I have watched him his entire career. There are obviously many reasons why he wasn't successful.  But I decided it's time to offer up my opinion after largely avoiding the topic. 

He definitely did lack the agility and burst that I saw in the past.   But I also believe there is another factor in play, the reason Bell went from a somewhat promising rookie to an all-pro in his second season.  He slimmed down.  I want you to take a look at a piece from 2015 in the link below with Bell photos.  

I believe Bell played 2019 around his Michigan State and rookie year weight.  Still in good shape, but not the slim physique that allowed him to be at his best.   Cimini recently alluded to "concerns in Florham Park about his conditioning."  This kind of confirms my suspicion.  

Disappointing to be sure... but correctable with another off-season if he wants to. 

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2015/07/12/leveon-bells-body-transformation-on-full-display/

 

 

[Jets723]

We did hear that he did gain quite a bit a weight during his year off but the reports said that he got back to his normal wright but clearly that wasn’t the case.  I still think Bell can be a big factor next year.  Obviously he needs to be at his previous weight, needs to be used better, and hopefully after fixing the oline he will have more dove to run. 

[jgb]

Not wrong but @The Crusher would get less than a yard after contact plowing for the buffet behind this OL. Definitely not a question of motivation.

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not wrong but @The Crusher would get less than a yard after contact plowing for the buffet behind this OL. Definitely not a question of motivation.

My servings per visit (spv) speaks for itself. 

[jgb]

24 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My servings per visit (spv) speaks for itself. 

Makes me laugh that the OL woes excuse Darnold not being great but Bell is an overpaid bum who lost a step.

Jet fans just hate players who get paid.

[joewilly12]

44 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not wrong but @The Crusher would get less than a yard after contact plowing for the buffet behind this OL. Definitely not a question of motivation.

 

32 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My servings per visit (spv) speaks for itself. 

@The Crusher  Buffet all you can eat, not you eat all. 

[RoadFan]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Makes me laugh that the OL woes excuse Darnold not being great but Bell is an overpaid bum who lost a step.

Jet fans just hate players who get paid.

I am not convinced he lost a step.  Maybe... but I am curious to see if reports pop up in the spring that Bell is lighter again.  I sure hope so.  Because if they do, I expect to see greatness again.

[RobR]

2 hours ago, RoadFan said:

I was one the strongest supporters of signing Bell.  I have watched him his entire career. There are obviously many reasons why he wasn't successful.  But I decided it's time to offer up my opinion after largely avoiding the topic. 

He definitely did lack the agility and burst that I saw in the past.   But I also believe there is another factor in play, the reason Bell went from a somewhat promising rookie to an all-pro in his second season.  He slimmed down.  I want you to take a look at a piece from 2015 in the link below with Bell photos.  

I believe Bell played 2019 around his Michigan State and rookie year weight.  Still in good shape, but not the slim physique that allowed him to be at his best.   Cimini recently alluded to "concerns in Florham Park about his conditioning."  This kind of confirms my suspicion.  

Disappointing to be sure... but correctable with another off-season if he wants to. 

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2015/07/12/leveon-bells-body-transformation-on-full-display/

 

 

Or could it be that before he decided to sit out an entire season he had already accumulated 1541 touches prior to coming to the Jets?

Pittsburgh worked him into the ground and anybody that thought he would even remotely have a chance at duplicating his Pitt numbers was sorely mistaken and should I say, a tad bit delusional. Giving a big contract to a RB with that many touches in his career never works out because their best years are always behind them. Sure, you can get good production but that window of having career years is already closed. There's a reason we were bidding against ourselves for his services last year. Big Mac strikes again.

[rangerous]

even if he was heavier he had no blocking in front of him.  i don't think he ever had the agility of a guy like barry sanders so he relied on the oline to get him that first couple of yards. the jets were near last in rb's getting hit after crossing the line of scrimmage.  not good.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

If Bell really gives a damn , he will work out with Sam and the Jet offensive weapons in the offseason .

[Greenseed4]

3 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

If Bell really gives a damn , he will work out with Sam and the Jet offensive weapons in the offseason .

Jet offensive weapons? So, you mean sit out the off-season.

[Matt39]

Maybe if the fanbase stopped defending/rationalizing players skipping preseason guys would be in better shape. I know that's apparently bad now, but there's nothing wrong with setting expectations.

[joewilly12]

Draft a RB like Travis Etienne and Bell will STEP up his game and we get a 1-2 punch at RB. 

[New York Mick]

Barry Sanders couldn’t get yards behind that oline 

[Joejet]

40 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Barry Sanders couldn’t get yards behind that oline 

That’s because he’s old!

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Maybe if the fanbase stopped defending/rationalizing players skipping preseason guys would be in better shape. I know that's apparently bad now, but there's nothing wrong with setting expectations.

It's not just the fans, it's the coaches. 

Coaches let star/veteran players do whatever they want in preseason. 

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It's not just the fans, it's the coaches. 

Coaches let star/veteran players do whatever they want in preseason. 

That too. It's the way it is now. Even suggesting that Bell would benefit from participating in minicamp and getting reps in preseason games is met with fury and finger wagging. It's why bringing him in just didnt make any sense. Too much drama connected to a position that isnt all that important and easy to find.

[jetstream23]

Quote

Opinion: Le'Veon Bell played 10-15 lbs heavier than ideal

Well, I was posting while about 10 lbs heavier than ideal all season.

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Maybe if the fanbase stopped defending/rationalizing players skipping preseason guys would be in better shape. I know that's apparently bad now, but there's nothing wrong with setting expectations.

If everybody showed up for offseason workouts, and played in the preseason, this team still would’ve been screwed because the QB went out to every bar in NJ and got mono.

Thats what ruined the season.

[Losmeister]

w/o actual #s... this post is garbage 

[CanadienJetsFan]

So that’s what the problem was.

[Snell41]

I’m pretty sure none of you actually watched Bell in PIT. He was never fast. He’s never been one to break off 50 yard runs. He was the guy who turned 3 yard runs into 6-9 yard runs by patiently waiting for a hole to open and shifting back and forth behind a lineman. He was a huge weapon in the pass game as a receiver, and we did not use him well in that sense I completely agree. But as a RB running the ball Bell was never a huge threat.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Biggs]

Pittsburgh's run game didn't lose a beat without Bell.  

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Pittsburgh's run game didn't lose a beat without Bell.  

I keep reading this, but is it true?  They were 29th in yards and 30th in ypa.  In 2018 they were 31st in yards and 24th in ypa.  Their run game sucks without Bell. 

[RoadFan]

38 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

I’m pretty sure none of you actually watched Bell in PIT. He was never fast. He’s never been one to break off 50 yard runs. He was the guy who turned 3 yard runs into 6-9 yard runs by patiently waiting for a hole to open and shifting back and forth behind a lineman. He was a huge weapon in the pass game as a receiver, and we did not use him well in that sense I completely agree. But as a RB running the ball Bell was never a huge threat.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

He wasn't ever a burner, true.  But he lacked his ability to "dart," his first 2 or 3 steps from stop to go that were sluggish.  His quick feet that let him slash to avoid contact weren't at the level I know.

He played more like a grinder this season,  which we know is not his game.  Much of that falls on the lousy run blocking.  Even though Bell is my favorite player, I cannot excuse that some of the failure falls on him too.

I was just trying to point out something that I don't think has been addressed much.  It looked to me like he wasn't at his optimum weight.  He appeared more like the 230-235 lb Bell, than the 220-225 version.  

Many on the board think he is finished.  Many don't.   Like I said above, just hoping to read reports that he appears  slimmer when camp begins next summer.   I think he still has it. 

 

[CTM]

Do we have any 2019 shirtless pics to compare?

If only the board had an expert on the male physique to provide guidance.

[Villain The Foe]

20 hours ago, Biggs said:

Pittsburgh's run game didn't lose a beat without Bell.  

Yet the Jets run game did without an Oline. 

Bell is also a receiving threat. 

[Paradis]

19 hours ago, RobR said:

Or could it be that before he decided to sit out an entire season he had already accumulated 1541 touches prior to coming to the Jets?

 

I take no pride in being right when projected those ^^ issues translating to an underwhelming season with the Jets. 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this, but is it true?  They were 29th in yards and 30th in ypa.  In 2018 they were 31st in yards and 24th in ypa.  Their run game sucks without Bell. 

In 2017 the ranked 20th in rushing yards and 25th in YPA at 3.8.  In 2018 they ranked 31st in yards and 24th in YPA at 4.2.  In 2019 they averaged 3.7 YPA.

I suspect the only reason YPA went down this year was the QB.  The net yards per passing attempt went down substantially which means they were probably running against more staked boxes this year.

If Roethlisberger is hitting Brown for 3 to 5 chunk plays for game I suspect the YPA would have likely to been right around where it was when Bell was there.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 hours ago, RobR said:

Or could it be that before he decided to sit out an entire season he had already accumulated 1541 touches prior to coming to the Jets?

Pittsburgh worked him into the ground and anybody that thought he would even remotely have a chance at duplicating his Pitt numbers was sorely mistaken and should I say, a tad bit delusional. Giving a big contract to a RB with that many touches in his career never works out because their best years are always behind them. Sure, you can get good production but that window of having career years is already closed. There's a reason we were bidding against ourselves for his services last year. Big Mac strikes again.

Historically the mantra is Pittsburgh lets go of these guys at just the right time, except in this case they offered Bell a larger contract than he got a year later - despite another year of cap inflation - with the Jets.

I wasn't in favor of the move because I thought he'd repeat his Pittsburgh numbers. I remember pretty clearly making this argument when Gato was still here, suggesting the Jets should offer up a 1st rounder in trade for the privilege of then giving Bell such an extension. Also historically I've never been one to subscribe to the mantra that a RB stirs the drink. Maybe in the 50s-80s when half the defensive linemen weren't that much bigger than many RBs, but not in this era of 300-pound defensive linemen. You have a couple rare talents like Peterson, and the rest need an OL. Yes better players will take more advantage of those better lines in front of them, but typical "good" starting RBs - even bigger/stronger ones - were like Thomas Jones, who put up solid numbers behind rock-solid veteran OLs, but was a big nothing otherwise. 

However I wasn't as against signing him as a FA. First off, there was no surrendering of our 1st rounder this time around. But second, because I knew it was overpayment and felt it wasn't that bad as a temporary crutch for our shiny new QB. Not because he would excel behind any OL (see my example of Jones above), but because he was more than just a RB who took handoffs. He was the games top receiving back, and was a veteran who understood his job didn't end when he wasn't the focus of the play (i.e. picking up blitzes, selling himself as a decoy). And yes, unlike other Steeler veteran-dumping, the offered this one a major extension; it just didn't have as many fully-guaranteed seasons as Bell wanted, after they took advantage of having him on year-to-year risks every season before that. 

So I saw him as more of a complete package who could dramatically help our young QB instead of the past history of going with even older has-beens like Forte, and not that I expected 4-5 ypc no matter which line he played behind. Put aside all his hesitation being excessively written off as "patience" whenever a player is successful doing it; beyond that, he just wasn't this slow in Pittsburgh once he'd made his decision and hit his chosen his hole (such that these holes were for the 2019 Jets). Yes he had a lot of prior carries under his belt, but without being injured he further had the whole 2018 season off to get over his 400-touch 2017 season to get fully back to 100%. Also due to other injuries had additional breathers over the years before that; just means his 1500 touches were spread over more years. Plus there are touches and there are touches; receiving touches aren't as punishing as handoff touches, and a few hundred of those 1500 touches were the former. 

Whatever the rationale, it certainly hasn't worked out. 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Historically the mantra is Pittsburgh lets go of these guys at just the right time, except in this case they offered Bell a larger contract than he got a year later - despite another year of cap inflation - with the Jets.

I wasn't in favor of the move because I thought he'd repeat his Pittsburgh numbers. I remember pretty clearly making this argument when Gato was still here, suggesting the Jets should offer up a 1st rounder in trade for the privilege of then giving Bell such an extension. Also historically I've never been one to subscribe to the mantra that a RB stirs the drink. Maybe in the 50s-80s when half the defensive linemen weren't that much bigger than many RBs, but not in this era of 300-pound defensive linemen. You have a couple rare talents like Peterson, and the rest need an OL. Yes better players will take more advantage of those better lines in front of them, but typical "good" starting RBs - even bigger/stronger ones - were like Thomas Jones, who put up solid numbers behind rock-solid veteran OLs, but was a big nothing otherwise. 

However I wasn't as against signing him as a FA. First off, there was no surrendering of our 1st rounder this time around. But second, because I knew it was overpayment and felt it wasn't that bad as a temporary crutch for our shiny new QB. Not because he would excel behind any OL (see my example of Jones above), but because he was more than just a RB who took handoffs. He was the games top receiving back, and was a veteran who understood his job didn't end when he wasn't the focus of the play (i.e. picking up blitzes, selling himself as a decoy). And yes, unlike other Steeler veteran-dumping, the offered this one a major extension; it just didn't have as many fully-guaranteed seasons as Bell wanted, after they took advantage of having him on year-to-year risks every season before that. 

So I saw him as more of a complete package who could dramatically help our young QB instead of the past history of going with even older has-beens like Forte, and not that I expected 4-5 ypc no matter which line he played behind. Put aside all his hesitation being excessively written off as "patience" whenever a player is successful doing it; beyond that, he just wasn't this slow in Pittsburgh once he'd made his decision and hit his chosen his hole (such that these holes were for the 2019 Jets). Yes he had a lot of prior carries under his belt, but without being injured he further had the whole 2018 season off to get over his 400-touch 2017 season to get fully back to 100%. Also due to other injuries had additional breathers over the years before that; just means his 1500 touches were spread over more years. Plus there are touches and there are touches; receiving touches aren't as punishing as handoff touches, and a few hundred of those 1500 touches were the former. 

Whatever the rationale, it certainly hasn't worked out. 

you're making way too much sense.  bell's steeler average was 4.3 ypc.  since the steeler line probably blocked downfield about a yard more than the current jets line it's pretty easy to see where the better stats came from.  bell has never been one of those backs who will get those monster games.  he's always been more of a very good all purpose type who can run, catch and pass protect.  in a way he's a lot like curtis martin.

i do think he will do better next season assuming the oline gets addressed and coached properly.  but even there i wouldn't expect monster running games.  imo he'll get around 120 ypg running and pass catching.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

you're making way too much sense.  bell's steeler average was 4.3 ypc.  since the steeler line probably blocked downfield about a yard more than the current jets line it's pretty easy to see where the better stats came from.  bell has never been one of those backs who will get those monster games.  he's always been more of a very good all purpose type who can run, catch and pass protect.  in a way he's a lot like curtis martin.

i do think he will do better next season assuming the oline gets addressed and coached properly.  but even there i wouldn't expect monster running games.  imo he'll get around 120 ypg running and pass catching.

I'd only say what's different is he was closer to a 5 ypc back at his very best, between his rookie season (when Pittsburgh's line was suspect; don't get fooled by names of players who were weaker run blockers, or better in other/later years) until he was used as a 400-touch back in 2017, which itself was after he held out of all workouts/camp/etc until September. 

Also he did have "monster" games (if you want to measure them by yardage).

• He had 120+ rushing yards in half his starts in 2016, and 4 of those other 6 he had 120 combined rushing/receiving yards. 
• He's got a couple games >200 rushing yards, another half dozen with a mere 144+ rushing yards, etc.
• I can't find fault with the guy for having "only" 95 rushing yards in a game where he also had 159 receiving yards.
• In 34 starts from 2014-2017 (that low number being a weakness in his resume) he had about a dozen games with ~120 or more on the ground independent of his receiving yards, as well as 70+ receiving yards in a dozen games in that same span.

I think he was better than a "very good" all purpose back; he was the game's premiere all-purpose back at one time. The ability to create gobs of yards that way, in particular when the ground game isn't working, is the very point -- that's what made him so valuable. A merely "very good all purpose type" to me sounds like Staley or Byner (or this year/more recently, Breida, Mixon, or Ronald Jones types) than the game's premiere all-purpose back for a few years in a row, which is what he was. Now that throne has clearly passed to McCaffrey, after it was briefly held by Gurley, and it sure doesn't look like Bell's going to retake that title. 

I don't think Martin is a good comparison to Bell, but to each his own. However we agree on the (alleged) added value that either back would have for a young pocket passer who has enough on his plate. With the 2019 Jets' OL, I'm not sure it mattered so much, though.

[Creepy Lurker]

Hopefully in a few years, we’ll have a great OL and not enough money to afford a star running back since we have to pay our great OL. Then we can just churn and burn RBs on their rookie deals and let them walk for comp picks. Anyone would look good behind a great OL. I can dream. 

[rangerous]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd only say what's different is he was closer to a 5 ypc back at his very best, between his rookie season (when Pittsburgh's line was suspect; don't get fooled by names of players who were weaker run blockers, or better in other/later years) until he was used as a 400-touch back in 2017, which itself was after he held out of all workouts/camp/etc until September. 

Also he did have "monster" games (if you want to measure them by yardage).

• He had 120+ rushing yards in half his starts in 2016, and 4 of those other 6 he had 120 combined rushing/receiving yards. 
• He's got a couple games >200 rushing yards, another half dozen with a mere 144+ rushing yards, etc.
• I can't find fault with the guy for having "only" 95 rushing yards in a game where he also had 159 receiving yards.
• In 34 starts from 2014-2017 (that low number being a weakness in his resume) he had about a dozen games with ~120 or more on the ground independent of his receiving yards, as well as 70+ receiving yards in a dozen games in that same span.

I think he was better than a "very good" all purpose back; he was the game's premiere all-purpose back at one time. The ability to create gobs of yards that way, in particular when the ground game isn't working, is the very point -- that's what made him so valuable. A merely "very good all purpose type" to me sounds like Staley or Byner (or this year/more recently, Breida, Mixon, or Ronald Jones types) than the game's premiere all-purpose back for a few years in a row, which is what he was. Now that throne has clearly passed to McCaffrey, after it was briefly held by Gurley, and it sure doesn't look like Bell's going to retake that title. 

I don't think Martin is a good comparison to Bell, but to each his own. However we agree on the (alleged) added value that either back would have for a young pocket passer who has enough on his plate. With the 2019 Jets' OL, I'm not sure it mattered so much, though.

i mentioned martin because he also had good pass catching and could stick it in pass blocking.  he was a bit lower in ypc. though. maybe walter payton is a good comparison. my idea of a monster game by a back is when they go above 150 rushing.  peterson was plenty amazing as were earl campbell or dickerson. i don't believe bell was ever that kind of back.

the bottom line is bell is one of the better backs in the nfl.  like you said, i'll take 95 yds rushing an 100+ pass receiving any day.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

i mentioned martin because he also had good pass catching and could stick it in pass blocking.  he was a bit lower in ypc. though. maybe walter payton is a good comparison. my idea of a monster game by a back is when they go above 150 rushing.  peterson was plenty amazing as were earl campbell or dickerson. i don't believe bell was ever that kind of back.

the bottom line is bell is one of the better backs in the nfl.  like you said, i'll take 95 yds rushing an 100+ pass receiving any day.

I just think they were different types of backs.

Martin was more of a 1-cut runner who hit whichever thing opened up first, and didn't typically whiff on an opportunity to hit a hole, even if it was smaller. Bell is more of a wait & see what opens up, even though he misses some opportunities in doing so.

Bell has (or had) a bit more power as I have few memories of Martin breaking a bunch of tackles with "wow" runs, especially in proportion to how many carries he had.

Neither were particular speed demons (though Bell looked like a sloth in 2019 compared to his old self).

Neither were make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t types if the OL wasn't doing its job, so that's simlar.

Bell is/was a more dangerous receiver (both had plenty good hands).

Martin was far more durable; 

• Bell missed many games, including most of the team's playoff games while he was with Pittsburgh: played fully in just 2 postseason games from the 2016 season and 1 from the 2017 season; he missed most of the last game in 2016, and completely missed the playoffs entirely in 2015 (2 games) and 2014 (1 game). Maybe if he was more durable Pittsburgh would have another SB appearance and/or win (or more), or more playoff wins anyway; you don't just delete your best or 2nd-best playmaker on offense and presume it has no direct and/or domino effect, otherwise for all his stats what is he really worth? 
• Martin, on the other hand, pretty much never missed a game (though he should have voluntarily sat at times, since that idiot Edwards was never going to sit him no matter how hurt he was, nor would Parcells no matter how ineffective he was. Mega points for toughness and pain threshold and carer durability, but no points during those down times for team-first-ness, not unlike career Captain Selfish Cal Ripken through every/any slump and injury he had for years). Still, he played at an effective level for an impossibly-long time for the position, though, in a way few others did. Bell won't make it to nearly 3500 carries.

Both are and were cap-destroyers, which is to say fans love the signings and extensions, but there's poor value in return. Martin's deals were worse for the team, though, from the 1st + 3rd round draft picks that went to a division rival, after already agreeing to surrender a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th for Parcells, to a contract that'd be the equivalent of I guess $23MM on today's $200MM cap (he got $6MM/year from Parcells when the cap was just $52MM; luckily Belichick pounded the table for Testaverde so we at least got really close once, or maybe we'd have just gone with Tuna's choice Foley for all of 1998. But I digest ). 

1. If I needed a player for one game in his prime, knowing he's healthy at kickoff, it'd be younger Bell 10x out of 10.
2. If I needed one for a 3-year run it's hard to say because, while Bell was both the more dangerous runner and receiver, odds are at least 50/50 he'd be watching the playoffs from the sideline after a season of punishment; he'll also miss a decent chunk of one regular season and most of another, but when he is in there before getting hurt he'll be the more dangerous player.
3. For a longer career, if that's what's important to you - especially if $ is not a factor - there's no question it's Martin. However I would question the veteran contract value of either of these two in the salary cap era, since neither was one to overcome a bad OL, and multiple others were more dangerous (handoff-wise) in every year of each one's career even if the superiority of those other backs was shorter-lived. Truth is neither of them has reached a superbowl (let alone won one), for all the accolades each made it to exactly one AFCCG, and each was quite forgettable in his championship game opportunity, where a great game from either definitely could/would have caused the game to go the other way.