Off Topic Clubs - Beta: Coming Soon

[thshadow]

I definitely appreciate you trying to do something to support many of us who are looking for an outlet to discuss things.  Though I also remember why the politics forum went away.  It just seems really hard to have civil conversations about some topics on a web forum.  If you watch "Behind the Curve" on Netflix (about flat earthers), you can see that people really like to talk to other people that share their point of view.  Like on sports forums... 

 

[Vudu]

Good move.

[HighPitch]

I think this is a bad idea.

so now, politics is allowed. Just like ji.com. Not sure how “clubs” fits in or how it is so different 

it will create a lot of hostility on the main board. It will spill over for sure.

personally, i think you guys have gotten wayyyyyy too lenient. If it were me id close threads right away. You guys let them go on and on and on. Meanwhile there are a million “in before the lock” type comments but the lock doesnt come until 4 pages later.

just the fact that there are typically 3 or 4 of those type of comments, on page 1, and it doesnt lock until page 5 proves it. 
 

look back to many locked threads. Often times the “in before the lock” or “ this should end well” or “ over under” comments are posts number 2 or 3! So that means most posters recognize the content is off limits right away. And what happens? It gets locked on comment 67.

its you guys. Seriously. Love ya but this club thing seems wrong. You guys just arent clamping down

[Mackman55]

6 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Sounds like a good idea. Personally I wont partake. Like everyone I have strong feelings regarding these things however I didnt become a member here to talk politics or SJ. I admit to being sucked into it on occasion but really do like the concept of keeping it out of here. I  use sports and JN as a healthy diversion from all that but unfortunately sports are no longer free from it all. I get enough of the politics, virtue signalling (ughhhh),  and all the important social issues from every other angle in my life and need a diversion or two to dry out from it. Honestly it is psychologically unhealthy staying immersed in all that 24/7.

This sums up my feelings exactly so I will not be participating. There are plenty of other places, like twitter, to get involved in heated arguments over any issue that "tickles your fancy". I participate on JN because I am a long time Jets fan and because the site is well run. As others have noted, I think in creating these clubs you take a risk that posters will let their hard feelings filter over to the primary Jets message board.

[Maxman]

9 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

I hope this works out. I choose to discuss politics on other forums and will not opt in to the clubs.

The only way that there is any hope of posters being civil and not falling back to canned talking points and accusations (that both sides will state as fact) that will fire both sides up to the boiling point is to  make a zero exceptions rule and absolutely enforce the kick/ban for at least a year.

Who will make the decisions on whether someone stepped over the line? Several mods and posters lean left. Will this be like the Google/Facebook/Twitter fact checkers that are all radical libs? I hope you have the final say because I've found you to be fair and open minded since you started JN.

Final thought on this is I fear that hard feelings from the clubs might follow over to the NFL forums and affect football discussions.

If people carry stuff from the Club to the forum they are going to be banned. That will be a no tolerance kind of thing.

The Clubs aren't our first choice and logistically we have a lot to work out. But the goal is to have them improve the quality of the main forums, not the other way around. 

Thanks.

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Can we create our own clubs?  Can we have a Rich Man’s Club for posters with a net worth of over $5M?  We have issues and concerns that others often find off-putting or unrelatable.  

SAR I

No, user clubs can't be added by members.
 

[Maxman]

12 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

I think this is a bad idea.

so now, politics is allowed. Just like ji.com. Not sure how “clubs” fits in or how it is so different 

it will create a lot of hostility on the main board. It will spill over for sure.

personally, i think you guys have gotten wayyyyyy too lenient. If it were me id close threads right away. You guys let them go on and on and on. Meanwhile there are a million “in before the lock” type comments but the lock doesnt come until 4 pages later.

just the fact that there are typically 3 or 4 of those type of comments, on page 1, and it doesnt lock until page 5 proves it. 
 

look back to many locked threads. Often times the “in before the lock” or “ this should end well” or “ over under” comments are posts number 2 or 3! So that means most posters recognize the content is off limits right away. And what happens? It gets locked on comment 67.

its you guys. Seriously. Love ya but this club thing seems wrong. You guys just arent clamping down

Well and I say this with all due respect, but you - as is typically the case - are clueless.

You have no idea how many posts or threads get deleted. 

This is an opt in method that will allow us to move any of these topics to a club. People want to keep posting about it? Great they can opt in there.

Several posters have already commented on how they have no plans on opting in. I love seeing that because this isn't a political board that we are trying to create. Just the opposite.

[Maxman]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

I didn’t say my net worth is $5M. I said that would be the minimum entry threshold for the Rich Man’s Club.  Per Google, $2.3M qualifies the average American as “rich”.   2x seems right to me.   

Your post, thank you, is an example of why we need such a club.  Second homes, luxury cars, luxury vacations, luxury jewelry, recreational vehicles, nannies, mistresses, cleaning girls, lots of ground to cover in these challenging times for so many (but not us). 

SAR I

So here is the deal. This joke is played out and you won't post about it any more in this thread.

We are trying to talk about a serious subject here so let's stay on topic.

[Maxman]

18 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

This sums up my feelings exactly so I will not be participating. There are plenty of other places, like twitter, to get involved in heated arguments over any issue that "tickles your fancy". I participate on JN because I am a long time Jets fan and because the site is well run. As others have noted, I think in creating these clubs you take a risk that posters will let their hard feelings filter over to the primary Jets message board.

This is already happening though. Because these conversations are going to happen either way to some extent. This lets us take a more aggressive stance in the forums by just moving the topics to the club.

[Mackman55]

3 minutes ago, Maxman said:

This is already happening though. Because these conversations are going to happen either way to some extent. This lets us take a more aggressive stance in the forums by just moving the topics to the club.

Max, thanks for the feedback. I wish you good luck.

[Larz]

3 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Getting my hawk touched up today. Trying to grow out something in the back I can braid. Don’t know if I’ll ever get to Ragnars league lol

[Maxman]

4 hours ago, Mike135 said:

@Maxman Are you saying a certain event that occurs in early November is going to be fair game to "discuss"?

Wow, if so, this should be interesting.

Not sure if it's possible, but some sort of restrictions may be a good idea.

Like anyone who wants to use the clubs should have been a member for a couple months and have a certain rep.

Try to keep out trolls.

 

That is a very good question. I would prefer not to allow that, but we will have to figure it out. There is a lot to be worked out yet so I think we will take it one day at a time and go from there.

4 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Yep, If the moderators are impartial the club forums might be fine, but I seriously doubt it. If the lib leaning mod's control the discussion it'll be just another BS exercise in it's our message or you're banned. 

@Maxmanplease keep a close watch on the known mod's with a political leaning one way or the other.

I'll resist the temptation to watch how fairly the moderation will be carried out.  I hope this does not impact the real football discussion most of us come here for.

These posters who claim they've been censored need to find another outlet, this is a football forum and not a Trump vs Biden, Antifa vs America First forum.

Okay so this post kind of proves my point. I have worked with these moderators for years and I can't even tell you what everyone's political affiliation is. My point is these conversations are already happening that is why the Club makes sense.

We have a lot to work out, but we want the Clubs to be self maintained as much as possible. What that means logistically we will have to work out over time. There will be issues, many issues, I have no doubt about that.

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

@Maxman  I would suggest that you completely disable the positive and negative reputation buttons in all of these clubs.  If you want them to remain insulated from everything else we do, then turn those things off in the clubs.

That is a good point, I am going to see if I can do that technically. Not sure if it is an option but I will try.

4 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

JI was notorious for having posters’ resentments from the political forums spill into every thread.

Best way to insulate the site from the politics while still having a place for it might be to enforce a new user ID for just the political clubs. This way, if poster X goes by “FoxNuuz” in the clubs but uses “JetFanABC“ in the forums, then when he posts in the clubs about how the oompah loompah at 1600 Penn Ave is a great guy, it won’t have any spillover effect in the forums for people who think the oompah loompah at 1600 Penn Ave is a dimwitted manchild.

I have no idea if that’s even feasible on this forum software, but just a thought.

Given the demographics on the site, it’ll be interesting to see. I’ll check it out and probably barely post in it - instead reserving my internet outrage for Gase in 2020.

I disagree on doing that on a global basis and here is why. Anonymity brings out the worst the internet has to offer.

Back on the ji days the webmaster created a fake account called streetballa333 or something like that. He used that account to blast people, his friends, and send messages that he would never send otherwise. So I think the second username would have people fighting more.

2 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Oh yeah and just to add to my idea if you get kicked out of any Clubs, you can only Post in the " Butt Hurt" Club for one whole week. Nowhere else!

So all the instigators, trolls, cry babies,  and righteous lunatics can keep each other company.

The PatsFanTx club. You get kicked out and that is your last resort, you have to talk to him.

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

 

Bingo.  I have absolutely no interest in these clubs, but really don't have issue with anyone who does... in theory.  With that said, there is no question this will quickly spread throughout the entire board in the blink of an eye, with streams of grudges and endless thinly veiled references to these topics infesting every thread and quickly making things intolerable.  I mean, these realities already exist to a certain extent just for football topics and the 0.0000001% of politics that manages to slip through today, so there's no reason to think it will be any different with this.

I'd be thrilled to be wrong about that, but odds are extremely high this will escalate quickly and at some point it'll be a question of how far it's willing to be taken before completely changing the entire image of what JN is really all about.

This is a good point and it is a very real fear. That being said it won't happen because the entire Club structure will be shut down long before we let that happen.

This either makes the quality of the NFL forum better or it goes away. We are only doing this right now because the quality in the NFL forum is taking a hit with some partisan politics stuff.

I had BETA in the first post, I just added it to the thread title as well.  We definitely want to make it clear that this is an experiment.



Thanks everyone!

[Maxman]

12 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

Max, thanks for the feedback. I wish you good luck.

Thank you. And make no mistake about it, we know that we will need the luck. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

41 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

This sums up my feelings exactly so I will not be participating. There are plenty of other places, like twitter, to get involved in heated arguments over any issue that "tickles your fancy". I participate on JN because I am a long time Jets fan and because the site is well run. As others have noted, I think in creating these clubs you take a risk that posters will let their hard feelings filter over to the primary Jets message board.

I'm skeptical that it will work, but the difference w.ith Twitter is that we hopefully won't be arguing with bots or Russian trolls. On the other hand, that might make things even dicier

[HighPitch]

48 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Well and I say this with all due respect, but you - as is typically the case - are clueless.

You have no idea how many posts or threads get deleted. 

 

I am not clueless. In fact i am so spot on it stinks.

For example, in the most recent locked thread titled “The NFL Caved” ( by the way the title alone is lock worthy):

post #2 states “ this will probably be locked before i can hit send”

and when does it lock? Post 180!

so immediately, in fact the first response, a poster recognizes it is off limits but it is allowed to go on for 5 more pages.

180 posts later.

and i am clueless? 
 

look i know im a dick and annoying at times but be fair. I am right on this and i provided data. I can go to most locked threads and it will be the same pattern. Its not stuff i am making up. And if you delete posts and threads without me being able to see them .....great but dont hold what i cant see against me.

i stand by what my original post claims: you guys have slacked off on politics and let them go on for too long.

and im not looking to fight or be argumentative. Im just pointing out an opinion to try to shed some light so no need to say im clueless. Quite frankly, it was rude of you

[PS17]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

I think this is a bad idea.

so now, politics is allowed. Just like ji.com. Not sure how “clubs” fits in or how it is so different 

it will create a lot of hostility on the main board. It will spill over for sure.

personally, i think you guys have gotten wayyyyyy too lenient. If it were me id close threads right away. You guys let them go on and on and on. Meanwhile there are a million “in before the lock” type comments but the lock doesnt come until 4 pages later.

just the fact that there are typically 3 or 4 of those type of comments, on page 1, and it doesnt lock until page 5 proves it. 
 

look back to many locked threads. Often times the “in before the lock” or “ this should end well” or “ over under” comments are posts number 2 or 3! So that means most posters recognize the content is off limits right away. And what happens? It gets locked on comment 67.

its you guys. Seriously. Love ya but this club thing seems wrong. You guys just arent clamping down

I agree with this. I flamed out on TGG a few years ago, got perma banned. Political discussion was allowed and I got so heated at some of the vile cretins on that board. Name calling, personal attacks, you name it. I couldn’t control myself and wound up hating so many posters I otherwise wouldn't have cared about. I see a similar dynamic happening here. We have a healthy forum for the most part. This idea could ruin that, @Maxman.

[thshadow]

Maybe the clubs won't be as necessary once there's, you know, actual football to talk about it.

[greenwichjetfan]

51 minutes ago, Maxman said:

 

I disagree on doing that on a global basis and here is why. Anonymity brings out the worst the internet has to offer.

Back on the ji days the webmaster created a fake account called streetballa333 or something like that. He used that account to blast people, his friends, and send messages that he would never send otherwise. So I think the second username would have people fighting more.

 

Fair enough!

[14 in Green]

@Maxman

I give you credit for being willing to change your policy. This site is so much bigger than other sports related sites I’ve browsed since joining here. This is a big step you’re taking here. Good luck with it.

Please don’t take this as a criticism, it’s just an observation. From what I’ve seen in other places, these off topic type clubs have a sort of Wild West aspect to them. 

They get very heated, the language used, and subject matter pushes limits. I think it’s like a Pandora’s box. Once you open it, it’s hard to control what’s inside. 

The idea of selectively eliminating someone from these type of clubs is a tight line to straddle for the admin and mods. I hope I’m wrong, and it ends up working out well, but I think it’s the type of thing which needs to be regulated a lot differently than a football forum in order to keep people participating.

Im not saying that a good thing, but these are going to be hot topics, and emotions will get high. Buckle up....

 

[14 in Green]

Just a few more words on the subject @Maxmanbecause I hadn’t read the thread, just your OP.

This site, and the mods who run it, bend over backwards to be fair, and give people like me (I know I annoy people with my view on a certain player) every chance to voice an opinion, as long as we don’t get personal and/ or use foul language. 

I truely appreciate that.

I’ve learned in life to “never say never”, but even though I appreciate you allowing this opportunity to those who want it, I don’t see myself participating in the clubs, other than to maybe read what some have to say in them.

 

[14 in Green]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

Can we create our own clubs?  Can we have a Rich Man’s Club for posters with a net worth of over $5M?  We have issues and concerns that others often find off-putting or unrelatable.  

SAR I

Edit.

comment removed, just saw Max’s comment on the subject.

[slats]

1 hour ago, PS17 said:

I agree with this. I flamed out on TGG a few years ago, got perma banned. Political discussion was allowed and I got so heated at some of the vile cretins on that board. Name calling, personal attacks, you name it. I couldn’t control myself and wound up hating so many posters I otherwise wouldn't have cared about. I see a similar dynamic happening here. We have a healthy forum for the most part. This idea could ruin that, @Maxman.

This is what the no politics rule was all about trying to prevent. And since that rule went in place, the country's only become that much more partisan and divided. Your concern here is a very real concern for us, and one we discussed at length before @Maxman made this announcement. It's only because so much of the real world right now is spilling into the NFL. The virus, BLM, the president, all effecting the league. We recognize that you guys see each other as some sort of friends and want to discuss this stuff, too. So this is a trial balloon. 

As Max said, we kinda want those clubs to run themselves in a generally unmoderated way. Right now, I don't intend to participate in these clubs at all. However, we also do not want that kind of vitriol in bold going on anywhere on the site (with the exception of the Mafia forum). We don't want that nastiness. The tools to report posts are available in the clubs, and if you're participating in one, and see something you feel is over the top, you should hit that report button. We'll see how things transpire from there. 

[Irish Jet]

Who threatens to beat the sh*t out of EY first?

[Spoot-Face]

13 hours ago, PS17 said:

Will there be a Jamal Adams Club

*T0mShane leaves the chat room*

[Spoot-Face]

10 hours ago, 82nd Airborne said:

Suggestion: The Fight Club- a place to kick each other's ass virtually, 

*RutgersJetFan enters the chat room*

[ljr]

excellent idea 

hope there is there is a reasonable way to stop the rabble-rousers from still acting the same way on the main board even with having a separate board to debate social and political issues on.

 

thx!

 

[Spoot-Face]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

This is already happening though. Because these conversations are going to happen either way to some extent. This lets us take a more aggressive stance in the forums by just moving the topics to the club.

^^This.

You're not going to stop people from wanting to talk about certain current events. We've already seen how well this worked over the last few months here. If anyone was complaining about how long it took to lock certain threads, then that's just a testament to how many there were and how often they popped up. This is all about realizing that these conversations are going to happen and creating a separate space for them so they don't intersect with the main forums.

I was always one who never cared much for controversial topics and conversations on here, and more often than not, took to relentlessly trolling the thread with the express purpose of getting it locked, because I'm a funny f*** like that. But now I've genuinely gotten interested in talking about certain things, because I think they're bigger than my apathy, and I thank Phil for setting this up.

Like many, I'm not sure how well this will go, and how long it will last (when the idea for this first came up, I was certain it wouldn't) but now I'm a bit more optimistic. We'll see. I sincerely doubt this will have any long-term negative effect here with stuff "carrying over" because, as we've already seen, these conversations have come up anyway and a significant amount of people have not been shy about vocalizing where they stand. If anything, the hope is that people will be able to express varying viewpoints in a thoughtful and respectful atmosphere. and the expectation of that will calm people's nerves.

[Charlie Brown]

13 hours ago, Maxman said:

One person surviving this experiment is the actual best case scenario. The reality here will be much worse lol.

You are a very Good man Sir!

Thank you!

[batman10023]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

I didn’t say my net worth is $5M. I said that would be the minimum entry threshold for the Rich Man’s Club.  Per Google, $2.3M qualifies the average American as “rich”.   2x seems right to me.   

Your post, thank you, is an example of why we need such a club.  Second homes, luxury cars, luxury vacations, luxury jewelry, recreational vehicles, nannies, mistresses, cleaning girls, lots of ground to cover in these challenging times for so many (but not us). 

SAR I

Having a nanny and a cleaning lady is for the rich?

[82nd Airborne]

5 hours ago, Maxman said:

Well and I say this with all due respect, but you - as is typically the case - are clueless.

You have no idea how many posts or threads get deleted. 

This is an opt in method that will allow us to move any of these topics to a club. People want to keep posting about it? Great they can opt in there.

Several posters have already commented on how they have no plans on opting in. I love seeing that because this isn't a political board that we are trying to create. Just the opposite.

Fight club material right there! 

[Barry McCockinner]

I'm just going to come right out and put a stake in the ground here. If any of you believe that it's even remotely reasonable to stand by the idea that a square shaped pizza is still considered pizza, just unfriend me right now.

[Embrace the Suck]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm just going to come right out and put a stake in the ground here. If any of you believe that it's even remotely reasonable to stand by the idea that a square shaped pizza is still considered pizza, just unfriend me right now.

[jetspenguin]

So.....naked girl pics are back?

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.

[kelticwizard]

15 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

JI was notorious for having posters’ resentments from the political forums spill into every thread.

Best way to insulate the site from the politics while still having a place for it might be to enforce a new user ID for just the political clubs. This way, if poster X goes by “FoxNuuz” in the clubs but uses “JetFanABC“ in the forums, then when he posts in the clubs about how the oompah loompah at 1600 Penn Ave is a great guy, it won’t have any spillover effect in the forums for people who think the oompah loompah at 1600 Penn Ave is a dimwitted manchild.

 

11 hours ago, Maxman said:

I disagree on doing that on a global basis and here is why. Anonymity brings out the worst the internet has to offer.

Back on the ji days the webmaster created a fake account called streetballa333 or something like that. He used that account to blast people, his friends, and send messages that he would never send otherwise. So I think the second username would have people fighting more.

Max, I would hope you would reconsider greenwichjetfan's idea.  If you need to be a member already, (hopefully with some time already in), to join a club and you select another screen name for the club which the mods already know about, then the posters know that vicious or outlandish behavior in the clubs can get the poster banned from both the main website and the clubs.  This still leaves the site with the option of just kicking the member out of the club only for lesser offenses.

 

I think this will prevent the club posters thinking they are home-free to be disruptive.

[Spoot-Face]

16 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

 

Max, I would hope you would reconsider greenwichjetfan's idea.  If you need to be a member already, (hopefully with some time already in), to join a club and you select another screen name for the club which the mods already know about, then the posters know that vicious or outlandish behavior in the clubs can get the poster banned from both the main website and the clubs.  This still leaves the site with the option of just kicking the member out of the club only for lesser offenses.

 

I think this will prevent the club posters thinking they are home-free to be disruptive.

I think Max has the right idea. Anonymity would encourage users to be more inflammatory because there'd be no real risk of consequence to them.

Just my 2 cents.

[Maxman]

11 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I am not clueless. In fact i am so spot on it stinks.

For example, in the most recent locked thread titled “The NFL Caved” ( by the way the title alone is lock worthy):

post #2 states “ this will probably be locked before i can hit send”

and when does it lock? Post 180!

so immediately, in fact the first response, a poster recognizes it is off limits but it is allowed to go on for 5 more pages.

180 posts later.

and i am clueless? 
 

look i know im a dick and annoying at times but be fair. I am right on this and i provided data. I can go to most locked threads and it will be the same pattern. Its not stuff i am making up. And if you delete posts and threads without me being able to see them .....great but dont hold what i cant see against me.

i stand by what my original post claims: you guys have slacked off on politics and let them go on for too long.

and im not looking to fight or be argumentative. Im just pointing out an opinion to try to shed some light so no need to say im clueless. Quite frankly, it was rude of you

It was extremely rude of me.

Doesn't mean you are right. The mods haven't slacked off, you are clueless as to mod activities because you can only see what remains public. So to be clear if you are rude to the mods who are doing a great job, during a pandemic, in a thankless job -- you will get rude returned to you.