Are we that far away on offense?

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Make all the comments you want about Adams but there is no denying the defense was better with him. McDougall and Maye suck.

It's amazing to me how much he was hated. I know he was an ass on his way out but I have a lot of friends that root for other teams and all of them have said he was an elite player the Jets should never have let walk. 

Jet fans hate all of their good players...can't wait to trade them away.  Two things Jet fans seem to completely misunderstand.

1) The purpose of having draft picks is to draft good players.  When you are lucky enough to actually draft someone that becomes a good player - you're supposed to keep him.

2) Cap space is only important if you have good players to pay.  If you refuse to pay whoever you have that is good and then claim signing good players in free agency always fails - then why are we saving all of this cap money?

[rangerous]

50 minutes ago, SAR I said:

This. 

And if Darnold can’t come back in time it’s going to be up to Flacco to give us some insight and who knows what he has left.  

In July, Mims, Crowder, Perriman, V Smith, Herndon, Griffin, and Bell seemed passable, certainly better than last year.  

SAR I

not to mention there's been a bit of a revolving door on the oline.  fant missed some games and becton may be out for a while.

[KINGDIRK]

9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

We have no TEs at all, no rbs, one really  good olinman, a QB the fan base wants to run out of town.  They better hope mims turns out really good.

But other than that....we’re really close

[kdels62]

The offense is close. If we end up with a top 5 pick any of the 3 QBs should be there for us. Right now Darnold is the biggest problem with the offense. 

1) One OL for the interior. Fant and Edoga are good OT depth and Becton is the franchise. Wyatt Davis at the end of the first round or a big signing like Thuney.

2) One change of pace back. A speedy burner/ pass catcher type. Could be had in the 3rd or 4th round.

3) A good receiver. Either use the second rounder on Olave and/or sign Allen Robinson. Mims, Robinson/ Olave, Berrios,  Jeff Smith, Vyncint Smith is pretty solid and we don’t even have to bring back Crowder.

Thats basically it, that’s an offense that competes if they have a competent QB.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, rangerous said:

not to mention there's been a bit of a revolving door on the oline.  fant missed some games and becton may be out for a while.

Yup, agreed.

We learn nothing until we get healthy.  Darnold missing time just exacerbates an already bad situation.  Or maybe it helps.  Maybe Flacco comes in under no pressure and makes the reads that Darnold doesn't and we get those few extra first downs we need to look respectable.  The Cardinal game will certainly be interesting.

SAR I

[Jetster]

Of course it can be done, is happened in many places, including here wîth Parcells & Rex.

1- Gase has to go. I was willing to give him a chance but his play calling has no rhyme or reason to it. Plus he has no balls on 4th down. How Sam doesn't have the ability to switch a play to a sneak with no one over center is a crime within itself. Unacceptable. 

2- You guys are crazy if you think Sam Darnold won't bring a first round pick. Sometimes players need a change of scenery & Tannyhill looks like a completely different player away from Gase. There are a lot of NFC teams that will be in the QB market. Stafford, Foles, Brees, are all aging, Sam will be 24, history has shown falling into the right fit can change a career ala Vinnie T with Parcells. So, whether the Jets are in position to take Trevor Lawrence, Fields or they keep Sam, they'll have the draft ammo & cap dollars to transform the offense. They could be in position to draft the TE Pitts with their 2nd number 1 if they take QB, sign Allen Robinson or Juju Smith, along with a Guard (Thuney, Stanley or Scherff). They also with so many #3s, maneuver up to draft a player like Ettiene & have a combo of Ettienne & Perine. That's so far only two free agent signings. 

With still at least 3/4 higher picks they could get a Center, edge, another WR. And even after signing a free agent WR & Guard, we'd still have a sh*tload of money because Bell will be cut too, Jeff Smith takes Perrimans roster spot, V.Smith will be back & Barrios fills out the end of the WR spots. 

A lineup of Robinson, Mims, Crowder, J.Smith, V.Smith, Ettiene, Perine, Pitts, Herndon, is a pretty good surrounding cast if you draft Trevor or Fields. 

Joe D did most of the things we wanted him to do this last draft. Morgan was the only WTF moment, and watching Sam this year maybe JD wasn't as sold on Sam as we all were. With the injuries, he gets an incomplete until we see more of these rookies but unlike Macc & his many, many WTF moments, JD does seem to have an actual plan. Signing a guy like Clowney who many wanted would be putting a temporary bandaid on a gaping wound. 

Unfortunately we've been hit two years in a row with a ridiculous amount of injuries on an already thin roster but I don't see Joe Douglas as a guy thinking, what am I gonna do now? I'm sure he's got a plan, unlike Macc who never seemed to any plan whatsoever proven by taking a safety when we hadn't had a good QB in ages and put himself in a position of weakening his draft ability to try to get one while passing on guys falling in his lap.

This defense is worse than what the offense will be when guys get healthy, so I'm sure JD knows filling out this offense is imperative this offseason. This seasons over except for seeing what we have in Mims, Davis, Zuniga, Clark, that's really the only thing left to evaluate. Let's hope they can all get healthy. At least we finally filled one of 4 must have positions. LT, CB, QB, Edge. We'll have a QB whether it remains Sam or JD goes with Lawrence or Fields. You could maybe see Daboll with Sam or Lawrence, or maybe Roman with Fields. Any of those scenarios will be light years from what we are experiencing as fans right now. It can be fixed. 

 

 

 

[rangerous]

22 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Of course it can be done, is happened in many places, including here wîth Parcells & Rex.

1- Gase has to go. I was willing to give him a chance but his play calling has no rhyme or reason to it. Plus he has no balls on 4th down. How Sam doesn't have the ability to switch a play to a sneak with no one over center is a crime within itself. Unacceptable. 

2- You guys are crazy if you think Sam Darnold won't bring a first round pick. Sometimes players need a change of scenery & Tannyhill looks like a completely different player away from Gase. There are a lot of NFC teams that will be in the QB market. Stafford, Foles, Brees, are all aging, Sam will be 24, history has shown falling into the right fit can change a career ala Vinnie T with Parcells. So, whether the Jets are in position to take Trevor Lawrence, Fields or they keep Sam, they'll have the draft ammo & cap dollars to transform the offense. They could be in position to draft the TE Pitts with their 2nd number 1 if they take QB, sign Allen Robinson or Juju Smith, along with a Guard (Thuney, Stanley or Scherff). They also with so many #3s, maneuver up to draft a player like Ettiene & have a combo of Ettienne & Perine. That's so far only two free agent signings. 

With still at least 3/4 higher picks they could get a Center, edge, another WR. And even after signing a free agent WR & Guard, we'd still have a sh*tload of money because Bell will be cut too, Jeff Smith takes Perrimans roster spot, V.Smith will be back & Barrios fills out the end of the WR spots. 

A lineup of Robinson, Mims, Crowder, J.Smith, V.Smith, Ettiene, Perine, Pitts, Herndon, is a pretty good surrounding cast if you draft Trevor or Fields. 

Joe D did most of the things we wanted him to do this last draft. Morgan was the only WTF moment, and watching Sam this year maybe JD wasn't as sold on Sam as we all were. With the injuries, he gets an incomplete until we see more of these rookies but unlike Macc & his many, many WTF moments, JD does seem to have an actual plan. Signing a guy like Clowney who many wanted would be putting a temporary bandaid on a gaping wound. 

Unfortunately we've been hit two years in a row with a ridiculous amount of injuries on an already thin roster but I don't see Joe Douglas as a guy thinking, what am I gonna do now? I'm sure he's got a plan, unlike Macc who never seemed to any plan whatsoever proven by taking a safety when we hadn't had a good QB in ages and put himself in a position of weakening his draft ability to try to get one while passing on guys falling in his lap.

This defense is worse than what the offense will be when guys get healthy, so I'm sure JD knows filling out this offense is imperative this offseason. This seasons over except for seeing what we have in Mims, Davis, Zuniga, Clark, that's really the only thing left to evaluate. Let's hope they can all get healthy. At least we finally filled one of 4 must have positions. LT, CB, QB, Edge. We'll have a QB whether it remains Sam or JD goes with Lawrence or Fields. You could maybe see Daboll with Sam or Lawrence, or maybe Roman with Fields. Any of those scenarios will be light years from what we are experiencing as fans right now. It can be fixed. 

 

 

 

we've seen teams turnaround fairly quickly by changing coaching.  but i don't think you can have it both ways.  both parcells and rex inherited teams that had some talented players.  maybe you can make an argument against this but rex inherited guys like harris, revis, brick, mangold, thomas jones, pace, rhodes etc.  there was some similar talent on the team parcells got from kotite.  just how many blue chip players do the jets have right now?  becton? darnold? mosely?  the rest are pretty average (we haven't seen clark or mims play so they can't be counted just yet).  so we can't say a coaching change can turn this team around very quickly and still say the team doesn't have any talent.

[Jetsfan80]

8 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Due to further cut backs, the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.

That is all.

"The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train...."

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

If JD believed in Sam (or was even unsure about him), he would've started setting him up this year. JD has made his decision not to throw good money after bad. He's already incorporated sucking this year into his plan. Next step, new QB in draft.

 

We'll all be amazed (well, SOME of us will be amazed) to see how quickly this offense will become competent when we finally get a quality HC/QB combo here, IF that ever happens.

Seemingly overnight, the pass protection will look a lot better, receivers will be open or getting "thrown open", and lanes will be opening up for the RB's.  

Granted, there's a pretty big gulf between "competent" and "great" on offense, and that's where adding a solid WR and TE, a starting-caliber RB and fixing the right side of the line will make the difference there.

[slimjasi]

To add some perspective to this thread:

In 4 games, the Jets have scored 65 points.

By my count, 13 teams have scored 100 or more points (this number will likely be 15 after tonight) and 29 teams have scored 80 or more. 

Only the NY Giants have scored fewer points than us so far this season. 

 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

We'll all be amazed (well, SOME of us will be amazed) to see how quickly this offense will become competent when we finally get a quality HC/QB combo here, IF that ever happens.

Seemingly overnight, the pass protection will look a lot better, receivers will be open or getting "thrown open", and lanes will be opening up for the RB's.  

Granted, there's a pretty big gulf between "competent" and "great" on offense, and that's where adding a solid WR and TE, a starting-caliber RB and fixing the right side of the line will make the difference there.

Absolutely. Amazing what competent-to-good QB play can do for his supporting cast.

[Mogglez]

13 hours ago, pointman said:

Sam is running for his life. The pocket collapses. Thats 100% on the offensive line. 

Perriman is not a top 2 receiver on any team. Crowder is a slow slot. We can improve there. Berrios is not good. Even Juju isn't enough. We need 2 more receivers.

Herndon has proven he has no hands. Griffin is Henry Anderson. Got his check and took the rest of his career off.

Perine, so far in his limited touches, has shown nothing to say he is our feature back.. or even our back up. He so far does not deserve to be compared to Bilal. 

What we have is bad. Very bad. It can be reformed in major fashion in one off season. We can be competitive in one off season. "Rebuild".. years.. maybe to be a championship team but certainly not to compete. 

If you watch the film, Sam is feeling phantom pressure a ton of the time and leaving the pocket well before he should.  Michael Nania did a very good write up with All-22 film to back it up and explain why this is especially concerning.  The line has not played nearly as awful as people think.

Crowder is not slow by any means, I have no idea where you got that, nevertheless, a slot receiver isn’t typically a burner anyway.  He’s been excellent in that role. Perriman, once again, is a goner.  You ignored Jeff Smith and Mims.  Berrios should be kept for ST purposes. Yes I would sign JuJu or ARob and draft a guy, that’s 2 more receivers.

Impossible to say what’s going on with the TEs because Gase is allergic to using them.

You would have said the same things you said about Perine about Bilal Powell years ago when he was a rookie.  If the coach doesn’t use them, we don’t know how they’ll fare.

What we have, when injured is bad.  When healthy it’s mediocre.  It’s not far off.  Especially when you factor in how much of a change in coaching and scheme will help.

[Greensleeves]

14 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This. We have the worst offense in the league.

Ugh. He's talking about when Mims, Perriman and Bell come back. Our line needs time to gel and get healthy. Once they are all in place they will be much better. Add to them a #1 receiver and a top flight free agent guard, another top FA receiver and draft a center. You can grab another TE in the draft and we're pretty close. Of course we need a smart offense to run, so that requires a coach as well.

[Jetster]

We all might look like a bunch of morons over the last 10 games if guys get & stay healthy each week. 
I am interested in seeing Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith, Herndon, Bell & the entire Oline for a few games in a row. 
That actually might catch a few teams resting on their Laurels that the Jets are a complete dumpster fire. Seeing a player like Smith become a #4 option will change how opposing secondaries match up with the Jets. 
Mims might be raw but he’s still a physical specimen that needs to be checked. 
That domino affect gives everyone else just a little more room to work with. 
 

[56mehl56]

15 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

They've scored 5 offensive TDs in 4 games - they're pretty far away.

If your old enough to remember Troy Aikman's rookie season , I bet a lot of Cowboys fans were saying the same kind of things . Then Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin helped to turn that team around. It takes a good Oline (being built) , a quality RB (Bell ?) and a very good WR (Mims) and things can trend upwards quickly. 

[Jet2020]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Make all the comments you want about Adams but there is no denying the defense was better with him. McDougall and Maye suck.

It's amazing to me how much he was hated. I know he was an ass on his way out but I have a lot of friends that root for other teams and all of them have said he was an elite player the Jets should never have let walk. 

I was making fun of Adams. I hated trading him away. You don’t trade away known all-pro commodity for an unknown commodity. Hated his antics though but you gotta pay good players. Can’t just keep the salary cap. It’s there so take advantage of it. 

[Skeet Ulrich]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

If your old enough to remember Troy Aikman's rookie season , I bet a lot of Cowboys fans were saying the same kind of things . Then Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin helped to turn that team around. It takes a good Oline (being built) , a quality RB (Bell ?) and a very good WR (Mims) and things can trend upwards quickly. 

QB still sucks.

 

[56mehl56]

Just now, Skeet Ulrich said:

QB still sucks.

 

The Qb sucked that 1st year in Dallas and it turned out to be just fine. 

[Skeet Ulrich]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

The Qb sucked that 1st year in Dallas and it turned out to be just fine. 

It's funny how we can make every excuse and apology for Darnold, yet still do not give that same grace for other players(notably Josh Allen who has played TEN times better than Darnold).

 

The offense sucks. It doesn't have a lot of talent but Darnold's also a part of the reason it sucks. It's harsh to come to terms with that realization but it's the truth.

 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

We all might look like a bunch of morons over the last 10 games if guys get & stay healthy each week. 
I am interested in seeing Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Smith, Herndon, Bell & the entire Oline for a few games in a row. 
That actually might catch a few teams resting on their Laurels that the Jets are a complete dumpster fire. Seeing a player like Smith become a #4 option will change how opposing secondaries match up with the Jets. 
Mims might be raw but he’s still a physical specimen that needs to be checked. 
That domino affect gives everyone else just a little more room to work with. 
 

Last year, I predicted the strong second half because of the weak schedule. 

But this schedule is just brutal and I also have to wonder if Gase can keep this locker room together after starting 0-4 for a second year in a row. 

I'd be shocked if this team had any kind of appreciable turnaround. 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

It's funny how we can make every excuse and apology for Darnold, yet still do not give that same grace for other players(notably Josh Allen who has played TEN times better than Darnold).

 

The offense sucks. It doesn't have a lot of talent but Darnold's also a part of the reason it sucks. It's harsh to come to terms with that realization but it's the truth.

 

I'm on record pre-draft that year that I preferred Allen over Darnold. My main reasons were his mobility and the fact he played in a cold climate. 

But prior to this season everyone laughed at the notion Allen might be better.  His step forward has a lot to do with the supporting cast in Buffalo which at the moment is markedly better than the Jets. Let's see what Darnold looks like when he has NFL capable skill players around him and a solidified Oline. The same people here would have bailed on Allen before he was able to prove his worth. 

[Skeet Ulrich]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'm on record pre-draft that year that I preferred Allen over Darnold. My main reasons were his mobility and the fact he played in a cold climate. 

But prior to this season everyone laughed at the notion Allen might be better.  His step forward has a lot to do with the supporting cast in Buffalo which at the moment is markedly better than the Jets. Let's see what Darnold looks like when he has NFL capable skill players around him and a solidified Oline. The same people here would have bailed on Allen before he was able to prove his worth. 

Burrow has a sh*tty OL and looks like a top 10 QB. Darnold just doesn't have 'it', unfortunately. Can he be an OK QB if all the variables around him are in his direction? Probably, but why is OK good enough? 

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Last year, I predicted the strong second half because of the weak schedule. 

But this schedule is just brutal and I also have to wonder if Gase can keep this locker room together after starting 0-4 for a second year in a row. 

I'd be shocked if this team had any kind of appreciable turnaround. 

Oh, I’m not predicting some huge turn around, especially since the defense is so lousy but we just might see a few shoot outs if we have the Oline together & all of Sams weapons on the field at the same time. We just don’t know? Mims could turn out to be a terror & Jeff Smith looked really smooth, V.Smith was coming on last year. Maybe the Smith boys become a household name here as 3/4/5 WRs? Like Cotchery when we had Braylon & Santonio? 

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Burrow has a sh*tty OL and looks like a top 10 QB. Darnold just doesn't have 'it', unfortunately. Can he be an OK QB if all the variables around him are in his direction? Probably, but why is OK good enough? 

Burrow has Joe Mixon, AJ green , Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins as his skill position players. The Jets right now have Frank Gore, Jamison Crowder, Hogan and either Jeff Smith/ Josh Malone . That's comparing apples to rotting trash. 

[pdxgreen]

We have Chris Herndon.  That is all.

[Losmeister]

11 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Burrow has a sh*tty OL and looks like a top 10 QB. Darnold just doesn't have 'it', unfortunately. Can he be an OK QB if all the variables around him are in his direction? Probably, but why is OK good enough? 

This. If you have "it" it leaps off the screen at you no matter your surroundings...

you dont have to LOOK, cajole and make excsues.......cos  "it" is in your face....

Its not just a river in Egypt,,,

[Losmeister]

7 hours ago, kdels62 said:

The offense is close. If we end up with a top 5 pick any of the 3 QBs should be there for us. Right now Darnold is the biggest problem with the offense. 

1) One OL for the interior. Fant and Edoga are good OT depth and Becton is the franchise. Wyatt Davis at the end of the first round or a big signing like Thuney.

2) One change of pace back. A speedy burner/ pass catcher type. Could be had in the 3rd or 4th round.

3) A good receiver. Either use the second rounder on Olave and/or sign Allen Robinson. Mims, Robinson/ Olave, Berrios,  Jeff Smith, Vyncint Smith is pretty solid and we don’t even have to bring back Crowder.

Thats basically it, that’s an offense that competes if they have a competent QB.

Only thing I'd say... is that I would hesitate to think we can simply plug in Berrios for Crowder.

I dont claim to know how to evalu8 the route running or anything...   but Crowder is pretty damned solid.

[Jetluv58]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

This. 

And if Darnold can’t come back in time it’s going to be up to Flacco to give us some insight and who knows what he has left.  

In July, Mims, Crowder, Perriman, V Smith, Herndon, Griffin, and Bell seemed passable, certainly better than last year.  

SAR I

Why Flacco and not Morgan? Why Gore and not Perine? What good does it do to trot out these old guys when the season is already toast? 

[Wonderboy]

17 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

 

[Embrace the Suck]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

[LIJetsFan]

17 hours ago, pointman said:

We need 3 or 4 linemen. 1 or 2 tight ends. 3 or 4 wide receivers, depending on if Mims is a player or not. A running back that does more than slowly plod down the A gap and get 2.5 yards as a starter. And a quarterback. We are far far away from having a good offense. 

Wouldn't it be easier to say we keep Becton and otherwise we need 10 new started on offense.   

[NYJ1]

Honestly,  there's no way of knowing until we get some players back. We're just too injured right now. The two weakest areas on the team, WR and OL, just so happen to be the most carved up by injury also.  It's really the 2019 season the sequel. But I think it's pretty safe to say that OL and WR are probably the biggest NEED of all 32 teams. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

I was making fun of Adams. I hated trading him away. You don’t trade away known all-pro commodity for an unknown commodity. Hated his antics though but you gotta pay good players. Can’t just keep the salary cap. It’s there so take advantage of it. 

He didn't want to be here.  People somehow like to forget that part ever happened.  

This thread is about how far our offense has to go to become good, and yet people are STILL talking about how we should have paid the Box Safety, who was shooting his way out of town at the time, and foregone the two 1sts and a 3rd.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

This. If you have "it" it leaps off the screen at you no matter your surroundings...

you dont have to LOOK, cajole and make excsues.......cos  "it" is in your face....

Its not just a river in Egypt,,,

 

Exactly.  It wouldn't be a matter of "SHOULD we keep and pay Darnold?"  It would be "When is this guy going to get paid, and how much will he get?"  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

Only thing I'd say... is that I would hesitate to think we can simply plug in Berrios for Crowder.

I dont claim to know how to evalu8 the route running or anything...   but Crowder is pretty damned solid.

 

I like Crowder a lot and want him back.  But not at his 2021 cap number ($11.5M) if we can avoid it.  If we can cut him and then re-sign him to a 2 or 3-year deal at a lower number, that would be ideal.

I know we have tons of cap space, but saving a couple million dollars here and there is a big part of how you build a contender over time, regardless of how much space you have.