PFF Grades of Douglas players

[Losmeister]

3 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Would you clean house if the choice was yours? Start completely over.

IMHO, he went bargains on the OL... cos those are "for now" guys, who he will also replace, except Fant/Becton...

we have no idea what Hall, Clark and Mims or even Davis does if he plays more.

[Losmeister]

and why arent CJ, BEll, and Tru and Anderson and the dregs of McCags claculated in here?

fwiw, I give Douglas no grade yet.

 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Kind of absurd to write off the draft class. Mims and Zuniga haven't played yet and Davis has played like 20 snaps.

Frustrating these guys are all injured but I think you need to have a little perspective after four games.

Exactly. Were the Cowboys killed for drafting Jalen Smith in the 2nd round knowing he’d be injured his entire rookie year? I know Mims & Zuniga will be playing soon but injuries happen (especially in this COVID era) and we’re killing these young men over that. We need to support our players. Coaching staff, GM and Owners are fair game. Players being injured is not something they should be criticized for 

[kevinc855]

JD hasn’t really improved the line. Yea he drafted Bechton but he was drafting who ever was the best OL available at 11. 
 

All the other signings have been questionable if not an all out failure (see kalil) Can we get our 10 million back? 

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

For now, like for this season but saying they are "nice pieces" when they will undoubtedly be upgraded is just being untruthful.  They're not nice pieces.   You're not building around any of those players, you're immediately looking to upgrade the second the offseason hits.

And you're right, you cant fix the team in one offseason and nobody was expecting that but when you're this talent depleted but they didnt fix anything other than 1 position,  that's a problem. We came into 2020 with "18" positions to fix, we're going into 2021 with "17" positions to fix.  That's concerning.  Not really sure how you can say otherwise.

Not sure what you are going on about here JiF.

You upgrade every year....you fill in your roster with vets who can get a job done, and you are replacing parts like that ALL the time.

But early returns show we just might have a LT.  We thought we had a QB, but maybe not.  There could be a bunch of players, once they see the field, might show us what we have.  But if you want to do this right, it WILL take 3 years.  And this is year one.  Last year would have counted, but our ownership brought in a guy AFTER free agency and the draft.

This isn't what any Jet fan wants to hear, because we have played this game waaaaaaaay too many times.  But this is how the good ones do it.  The GM gets about three years to put their stamp on a team, and if it works, they keep putting their stamp on it until it doesn't work anymore.  Either trust Douglas until 2023, or jump off the train now because you are in for nothing but aggravation.  

[CanadaSteve]

11 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

and why arent CJ, BEll, and Tru and Anderson and the dregs of McCags claculated in here?

fwiw, I give Douglas no grade yet.

 

Nor should we give him a grade.  We can't!  In 2023, after his third draft, if we are not in the playoffs by then, we can start talking "is Douglas doing enough?"  Same what I said about Maccagnan.  He had to get three years.  I thought I saw hope in year four, but clearly I was mistaken.  I agreed with many that he had to go before the draft.  It didn't happen.  So Douglas is in his first year of drafting, and he gets two more.  Its that simple.

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Nor should we give him a grade.  We can't!  In 2023, after his third draft, if we are not in the playoffs by then, we can start talking "is Douglas doing enough?"  Same what I said about Maccagnan.  He had to get three years.  I thought I saw hope in year four, but clearly I was mistaken.  I agreed with many that he had to go before the draft.  It didn't happen.  So Douglas is in his first year of drafting, and he gets two more.  Its that simple.

Something like that....

[Ohhthepain]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'd love to see what the O line looks like with Cameron Crawford at G instead of Van Roten. I think Crawford has the same mauler attitude of Bectin.  If he does well, then I'd put him on the left side next to Bectin, move Lewis to RG next to Fant and draft the highest rated C in the draft. 

Cam Clark? If so I would too. Hope to see him on the field at some point this season. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Nor should we give him a grade.  We can't!  In 2023, after his third draft, if we are not in the playoffs by then, we can start talking "is Douglas doing enough?"  Same what I said about Maccagnan.  He had to get three years.  I thought I saw hope in year four, but clearly I was mistaken.  I agreed with many that he had to go before the draft.  It didn't happen.  So Douglas is in his first year of drafting, and he gets two more.  Its that simple.

I agree that it takes time, but if you have three straight bad years you don't start talking.  You're done talking.  Injuries are an excuse.  That excuse lasts one year.  Three years of injuries is not an excuse, it's a mistake.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

oops. Clark. He's seen the field so little I couldn't remember his name correctly.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, jetophile said:

If there is one position that Jets fans have been spoiled with consistently for years it's Center. Rasmussen (well, Guard), Joe Fields, Jim Sweeney, Joe Klecko,

JOE KLECKO?

Lol

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

JD hasn’t really improved the line. Yea he drafted Bechton but he was drafting who ever was the best OL available at 11. 

Except he had a choice and picked who he wanted for the OL

[SAR I]

7 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Free Agents/Trades

Bradley MacDougald-48

Pierre Desir-56.7

Connor McGovern-44.2

GVR-55.7

Josh Anderws-53.7

George Fant-64.5

Brian Poole-73.6

Alex Lewis-69

Jordan Jenkins-60.9

Frank Gore-62.7

Breshad Perriman-56.3

Chris Hogan-55.7

Draft Picks

Mehki Becton-72.6

Ashtyn Davis-43.7

LaMichael Perine-53.7

Former Jets

Robby Anderson-74.5

Jamal Adams-68

Kelvin Beachum-65.7

Kelechi Osemele-60.6

Brandon Shell-63.6

Brian Winters-46.9

Daryl Roberts-58.1

 

Is like 75 the best score anyone can get?

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Perriman got hot for a couple games last season facing bad defenses like the Lions

Texans, Jags, Colts and Falcons.  

[jetstream23]

7 hours ago, heymangold said:

so Fant and Beachum are basically the same.

Lewis better than Winters and Osemele.

Becton a stud.

need a McGovern to step it up - and get another guard.  go balls to the wall for Thuney.

McGovern has been the only real disappointment to me (excluding injuries to guys like Perriman).  I expected him to be better.

Agree 100% on the interior approach.  Thuney would be a great target at OG.  I also think the Jets should draft a Center on Day 2 of the Draft.

Becton - Lewis - McGovern/Rookie - Thuney - Fant/Edoga would be another positive step forward although RT may become a need depending on Edoga's progression (another damn injury!)

[jetophile]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

JOE KLECKO?

Lol

See later on . . . I was bored, and I was waiting to see who would pick up on it and who wouldn't. That makes two so far. : )

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I agree that it takes time, but if you have three straight bad years you don't start talking.  You're done talking.  Injuries are an excuse.  That excuse lasts one year.  Three years of injuries is not an excuse, it's a mistake.

Well, we shall see.

It might also not be a mistake, but rather a REAL consideration that the field they play on for the majority of their games is crap, as well as the training staff.  This is two years in a row we have been destroyed by injuries.  When do they start getting noticed?

[Ecuadorian Jet]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

FIND A #@$$#$%%$^$&^&%*^*&*(%  CENTER

trade the 1st round pick next year and draft OC Creed Humphrey

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, jetophile said:

See later on . . . I was bored, and I was waiting to see who would pick up on it and who wouldn't. That makes two so far. : )

What two pages later?   After it was pointed out to you.  And before your coverup?

No sir, you got no one.  Sometimes we get others, sometimes they get us.  

[jetophile]

47 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What two pages later?   After it was pointed out to you.  And before your coverup?

No sir, you got no one.  Sometimes we get others, sometimes they get us.  

Like I don't know Klecko played D, lol. The POINT of including Klecko was having it POINTED OUT TO ME on a no-news day, and guess what? A lot of people didnt. "Cover up", when I said Rasmussen played Guard, who pissed in your Double Skinny Chai Latte? Your "argument" is better suited towards nyjunc.  It was a joke, Sir.

[Jet Nut]

25 minutes ago, jetophile said:

Like I don't know Klecko played D, lol. The POINT of including Klecko was having it POINTED OUT TO ME on a no-news day, and guess what? A lot of people didnt. "Cover up", when I said Rasmussen played Guard, who pissed in your Double Skinny Chai Latte? Your "argument" is better suited towards nyjunc.  It was a joke, Sir.

Yeah, you said Rass in the original post and corrected it in the original post, not two pages later,

Whatever, if its a joke it didnt work as a joke.  Because youre the only one in on it

[jetophile]

38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, you said Rass in the original post and corrected it in the original post, not two pages later,

Whatever, if its a joke it didnt work as a joke.  Because youre the only one in on it

So I went back and added Guard on Rasmussen in the original post 20 seconds after I originally posted it -just so I wouldn't get nyjunced - which I did, so I didn't - but I clearly left Klecko in the original post because I had no idea that he played defense and onward never attempred to remove it but I corrected it two pages later. 

OK. 

Anyway, I do this kind of thing and it's not my fault you're humorless. "No, it's just not funny." Don't worry, bro, I got yer back. 

 

[Jet Nut]

35 minutes ago, jetophile said:

So I went back and added Guard on Rasmussen in the original post 20 seconds after I originally posted it -just so I wouldn't get nyjunced - which I did, so I didn't - but I clearly left Klecko in the original post because I had no idea that he played defense and onward never attempred to remove it but I corrected it two pages later. 

OK. 

Anyway, I do this kind of thing and it's not my fault you're humorless. "No, it's just not funny." Don't worry, bro, I got yer back. 

 

Dude, dont get bent, it just wasn't funny if it was intentional or whatever the point was.  Let go, no one is laughing

Now Lucas and JETS: F, thats funny.

[jetophile]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dude, dont get bent, it just wasn't funny if it was intentional or whatever the point was.  Let go, no one is laughing

I already did that very last part for you. Not sure why you're exerting yourself unnecessarily.

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, jetophile said:

I already did that very last part for you. Not sure why you're exerting yourself unnecessarily.

Read my edit.

Not really exerting

[rangerous]

23 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Free Agents/Trades

Bradley MacDougald-48

Pierre Desir-56.7

Connor McGovern-44.2

GVR-55.7

Josh Anderws-53.7

George Fant-64.5

Brian Poole-73.6

Alex Lewis-69

Jordan Jenkins-60.9

Frank Gore-62.7

Breshad Perriman-56.3

Chris Hogan-55.7

Draft Picks

Mehki Becton-72.6

Ashtyn Davis-43.7

LaMichael Perine-53.7

Former Jets

Robby Anderson-74.5

Jamal Adams-68

Kelvin Beachum-65.7

Kelechi Osemele-60.6

Brandon Shell-63.6

Brian Winters-46.9

Daryl Roberts-58.1

 

are these for just the 4 games so far?  if so they are meaningless.  same thing for all of those stellar former jets.  and having rookie players, especially those who have hardly played, makes all that more meaningless.  and how do these vets compare with their grades from previous seasons and teams.

[Larz]

 

[OilfieldJet]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:35 AM, jetophile said:

If there is one position that Jets fans have been spoiled with consistently for years it's Center. Rasmussen (well, Guard), Joe Fields, Jim Sweeney, Joe Klecko, Kevin Mawae, Nick Mangold, that's a pretty solid run and they all had lengthy careers. I wonder how that happened. Anyway, agreed about Center. It's oddly something that the Jets have done right by and large, which is really probably by accident somehow. : /

Klecko?

[jetophile]

24 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

Klecko?

Hahaha, yay, #3! It was a plant. Read through.

[football guy]

On 10/8/2020 at 9:13 AM, GreekJet said:

Free Agents/Trades

Bradley MacDougald-48

Pierre Desir-56.7

Connor McGovern-44.2

GVR-55.7

Josh Anderws-53.7

George Fant-64.5

Brian Poole-73.6

Alex Lewis-69

Jordan Jenkins-60.9

Frank Gore-62.7

Breshad Perriman-56.3

Chris Hogan-55.7

Draft Picks

Mehki Becton-72.6

Ashtyn Davis-43.7

LaMichael Perine-53.7

Former Jets

Robby Anderson-74.5

Jamal Adams-68

Kelvin Beachum-65.7

Kelechi Osemele-60.6

Brandon Shell-63.6

Brian Winters-46.9

Daryl Roberts-58.1

 

I have PFF as well, but thanks for compiling this. Here's what I'll say about PFF: it's a strong tool, but like any other stat its a flawed one because it doesn't account for scheme and coaching. They grade players based on what they think they should be doing, not what the coaching staff or the scheme is asking for that player to do. Best way to use it is as a factor in the overall picture that includes production and the eye test. 

I think most of there grades are an accurate depiction of how players have played. McDougal, Desir, McGovern, and GVR have been very underwhelming. I'm sure there's a number of "excuses" that can be used: new team, new scheme, limited offseason, no time to gel.

I think it's unfair to judge Hogan, Perriman, Andrews, Davis, Perine on these grades alone. Hogan hasn't made any glaring mistakes, has been asked to come in with no experience in the offense and become a #1b/#2 WR. Perriman has been banged up. Andrews has been asked to play out of position. Davis too has been banged up, and again, it's hard for a rookie to come in and perform well on a short offseason. That's not to say no rookies have been good, but many on defense have struggled (see CB Okudah-29.3; DL Brown-58.6; LB Simmons-32.3...). Perine has barely played, and RB is a position that I think PFF misses the most on. 

Lewis seems high to me, and that's likely because he's had a lot of help with Becton next to him (don't think its a coincidence that Lewis has graded in the 80s when Becton is on the field). He's let up a lot of pressures. 

Fant has been stellar. He had a few hiccups week 1 but otherwise, his grade (which is a good one) feels well below than what he's shown on the field. He's been impressive. I think its easier for talented OTs to shine in a condensed offseason like this because much like DEs or perimeter CBs, they work on an island. It's the interior lines that have to communicate a lot more and make the right reads. 

I hate to come off as a know-it-all, but I never doubted Becton would be this good. I wrote about him in here a few times prior to the draft. Humans simply aren't supposed to be as big, strong, and athletic as he is. He was my favorite prospect in the past 3 years, and I'm glad he's showing early on that he has the goods. 

 

 

I hate what I'm seeing with this team just as much as any other Jets fan. But I do think the team has found a few extremely important pieces in Becton and Fant. Finding guards is far less daunting, and I think McGovern will level out as the OL gels and they add talent.  

We still have yet to see what we have in Mims, Zuniga, Clark, or Hall. Best thing for the Jets is to accept this season is lost, make sure the players are taking it upon themselves to develop, hire a new coach, and plan for lift-off in 2021. 

[#27TheDominator]

 

Quote

 

nyjetsgameplan

@george_fant44 is putting together a really impressive season. ?? #Jets #GeorgeFant #NYJGP

1h

How easily impressed is this ******* guy?  I like Fant and he hasn't been horrible, but really impressive?  C'mon.

14 minutes ago, jetophile said:

Hahaha, yay, #3! It was a plant. Read through.

Not nice.  Do we not like this person?

[jetophile]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

How easily impressed is this ******* guy?  I like Fant and he hasn't been horrible, but really impressive?  C'mon.

Not nice.  Do we not like this person?

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you feel like a nut. I mean, I'm just riveted to my seat with this barnburner of a season that far be it from me to be a little bored. As in bored stiff, stiff as a board, rigor mortis, corpse like. Ya ever beside yaself? "Oh, my God, I'm just beside myself!" 

Well, I thought long and hard about this, and during the Denver game I had the sensation that I was beside myself. Disgusted with what was on the TV screen, I turned to my right, and there I was, sitting beside me. I had to get up and pace around the living room a little bit to shake it off. I stretched and sat back down, but nope, the game was so bad I was still beside myself.

[Irish Jet]

30 minutes ago, football guy said:

I hate to come off as a know-it-all, but I never doubted Becton would be this good. I wrote about him in here a few times prior to the draft. Humans simply aren't supposed to be as big, strong, and athletic as he is. He was my favorite prospect in the past 3 years, and I'm glad he's showing early on that he has the goods. 

Jesus. You weren't kidding. Absolutely f*cking nailed it. 

That Mims/Hill comparison though. Plz no.

[BettyBoop]

On 10/8/2020 at 9:13 AM, GreekJet said:

Free Agents/Trades

Bradley MacDougald-48

Pierre Desir-56.7

Connor McGovern-44.2

GVR-55.7

Josh Anderws-53.7

George Fant-64.5

Brian Poole-73.6

Alex Lewis-69

Jordan Jenkins-60.9

Frank Gore-62.7

Breshad Perriman-56.3

Chris Hogan-55.7

Draft Picks

Mehki Becton-72.6

Ashtyn Davis-43.7

LaMichael Perine-53.7

Former Jets

Robby Anderson-74.5

Jamal Adams-68

Kelvin Beachum-65.7

Kelechi Osemele-60.6

Brandon Shell-63.6

Brian Winters-46.9

Daryl Roberts-58.1

 

That's harsh!

 

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

Jesus. You weren't kidding. Absolutely f*cking nailed it. 

That Mims/Hill comparison though. Plz no.

Not off to a great start. I hope I'm wrong. One thing I'll say was Hill had some commitment issues and didn't love the game so much. Like Darron Lee, he was a smart guy that knew how to "manipulate" the team into believing they had great character. Showed up to his pre-draft visit in a suit, well spoken, etc. - but also was a partier, liked psychedelic drugs, and wasn't giving 100% in his rehab. When you're a raw player and you don't put in 100% on the little things- you'll always remain raw. 

I want Mims to be good and we need him to be good but I'm just not all that confident. He turns 23 tomorrow. Due to the pandemic and injury he's missed tremendous amounts of valuable time. He's probably going to be limited to 10-12 games this year, barring further injury. When you consider that only 45% of 2nd round receivers end up panning out, the odds were already stacked against him. 

Obviously this is a bit of sampling bias, but the glimmer of hope the Jets have is that his peers are dealing with the same...  

• Tee Higgins: 4-of-4 games, 12 receptions, 152 yards, 2 TDs - missed time in TC with hamstring injury, has seen an uptick in production
• Michael Pittman: 3-of-4 games, 9 receptions, 73 yards - on IR with calf injury, wasn't playing great prior to injury 
• Laviska Shenault: 4-of-4 games, 16 receptions, 191 yards, 1 TD - no injures and has been a true playmaker as a rusher and receiver
• KJ Hamler: 3-of-4 games, 6 receptions, 78 yards - missed time throughout training camp with hamstring injuries 
• Chase Claypool: 3-of-3 games, 6 receptions, 151 yards, 1 TD - big time playmaker in a reserve role
• Van Jefferson: 4-of-4 games, 5 receptions, 76 yards - has seen his snaps decrease each week and has only played 11 in the past 2 games.  

 

Bottom-line: Jets need to get this guy on the field and give him a fair evaluation. You can't expect him to become a stud overnight, but you want to be sure that at the very least you can count on him as a major part of your offense in 2021.