Trevor Lawrence Not the answer: MERGED

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Paradis said:

Zero acknowledgement from many on his average at best performance last year in the playoffs. 

I know, I've had people laughing at Fields performance vs. Clemson (he out played Lawrence that game too) but literally dodging the question when I throw that game back at them but whatevs.  He showed it vs. Miami too, he's got some accuracy/ball placement issues but I know its more fun to just look at his stat line.

Again, not saying he's not going #1, I'm not saying dont draft, I'm not saying he's not the best QB prospect (though I'm very intrigued to see Fields this year), I'm just saying he's far from perfect. 

[rangerous]

6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Seriously, for what he's done, re-signing Sam is not going to break the bank.

It’s obviously not going to be a Mahomes deal but he’ll probably grab low 20’s per year. And who knows, he force a trade or opt for free agency.

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Played pretty well as a freshman in the playoffs and beat Alabama.

Indeed - otherwise we wouldn't be fcking talking about him at all, would we? 

But a deeper dive shows defensively clemson was a different team that year IMO, Ross & Higgins were playing on top of their heads and Alabama's secondary that year was nowhere near as dynamic as LSU's was last year. It's not a black or white thing - there's just a more tempered conversation that should be happening. 

[HOF19]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

And Darnold wasnt very good at USC either. He was propelled by the northeast media complex who watched the Rose Bowl and nothing else.

Colts fan here .....Was just listening to John Clayton on WFAN Indianapolis (Colts flagship radio station ) suggesting the horrifying...HORRIFYING idea of the Colts trading for Darnold ...........Add this  >>>>>I am a lifetime USC Trojan fan and want NO PART of Darnold !.......I hope you guys get it turned around !!!!!

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

EDIT: Shane got the joke, lol.

In that case I'm glad I didn't..

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Played pretty well as a freshman in the playoffs and beat Alabama.

He did but that team was one of the better college Football teams ever assembled, he really didnt have to do much and if you remeber that game, while he was awesome on 3rd down, a lot of his yards/stats came when they had pretty much won the game  Clemson's D shut Bama down and gave him a ton of possessions and his WR's made some of the most ridiculous catches I've ever seen on really bad balls.  For as much love LSU had for last year, that Clemson team produced 5 (will 7 or 8 ) 1st round picks, 3 to 4 2nd Rd picks, and a dozen more pros.  Pretty ridiculous.  IDK - it was like watching guys like Trask and Mac Jones.  I dont think either are good but because they're so ridiculously loaded, they put up stupid stats. 

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Indeed - otherwise we wouldn't be fcking talking about him at all, would we? 

But a deeper dive shows defensively clemson was a different team that year IMO, Ross & Higgins were playing on top of their heads and Alabama's secondary that year was nowhere near as dynamic as LSU's was last year. It's not a black or white thing - there's just a more tempered conversation that should be happening. 

 

Just now, JiF said:

He did but that team was one of the better college Football teams ever assembled, he really didnt have to do much and if you remeber that game, while he was awesome on 3rd down, a lot of his yards/stats came when they had pretty much won the game  Clemson's D shut Bama down and gave him a ton of possessions and his WR's made some of the most ridiculous catches I've ever seen on really bad balls.  For as much love LSU had for last year, that Clemson team produced 5 (will 7 or 8 ) 1st round picks, 3 to 4 2nd Rd picks, and a dozen more pros.  Pretty ridiculous.  IDK - it was like watching guys like Trask and Mack.  I dont think either are good but because they're so ridiculously loaded, they put up stupid stats. 

 

[Scoop24]

No thinks the roster will be the same next year or thinks gase will be here. So i dont really care about what he could do with the current jets. 

[Paradis]

5 minutes ago, HOF19 said:

Colts fan here .....Was just listening to John Clayton on WFAN Indianapolis (Colts flagship radio station ) suggesting the horrifying...HORRIFYING idea of the Colts trading for Darnold ...........Add this  >>>>>I am a lifetime USC Trojan fan and want NO PART of Darnold !.......I hope you guys get it turned around !!!!!

this post--

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

 

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Indeed - otherwise we wouldn't be fcking talking about him at all, would we? 

 

I mean he's still a top 3 pick if he had bombed against Bama....as a freshman.

[peebag]

Right about now I'd love me some Paxton Lynch.....

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

I mean he's still a top 3 pick if he had bombed against Bama....as a freshman.

That kind of thinking is how you end up with Quinnen Williams 

[Spoot-Face]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Zero acknowledgement from many on his average at best performance last year in the playoffs. 

A lesser performance against stronger competition would normally be worrying to me, but I thought the same about Josh Allen coming out. When playing lesser competition he looked good, but when he faced Power-5 teams he was dreadful. That was the main reason I didn't want him, but now I'm eating crow on that one.

It's gonna take more than that to scare me away from T-Law.

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

No thinks the roster will be the same next year or thinks gase will be here. So i dont really care about what he could do with the current jets. 

the point of that part of the argument is to say that Sam Darnold could still be the guy.  a new coach and much more talent and darnold might be good as well no?  See Ryan Tannehill

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

No thinks the roster will be the same next year or thinks gase will be here. So i dont really care about what he could do with the current jets. 

This is a pretty critical point that a lot of the "put Lawrence on the Jets and he sucks" people seem to be missing.

Adam Gase, Dowell Loggains, and Gregg Williams will all be gone next year. We have two first round picks next year, are picking at the top of every round. Two first rounders in 2022. Lots of cap space, aren't tied up with bad contracts.

Yes, we suck right now. If Douglas is worth his keep there's a great opportunity to BOTH draft TL and overhaul this roster with a new coaching staff.

[Jetluv58]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So does Trent Dilfer.

Dilfer didn’t make many mental mistakes or turnovers. Unremarkable, maybe. But he did what he needed to do in the moment and yes, he has a ring.

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Keyshawn Johnson is sticking up for his USC buddy if Sam Darnold was the QB throwing the ball to Keyshawn he would think differently. 

If Sam was throwing to Key, we would think differently of Sam. 

[Paradis]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

A lesser performance against stronger competition would normally be worrying to me, but I thought the same about Josh Allen coming out. When playing lesser competition he looked good, but when he faced Power-5 teams he was dreadful. That was the main reason I didn't want him, but now I'm eating crow on that one.

It's gonna take more than that to scare me away from T-Law.

Nothing wrong with settling on TL as the next move for the Jets... it's comes down "what's the plan"... BUF had a plan, and a regime to support Allen. He's been successful because Brass & co. have intent behind their decisions... something completely alien to this organization at the moment. 

[kevinc855]

He is a great qb. But without weapons he will

be nothing. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

A lesser performance against stronger competition would normally be worrying to me, but I thought the same about Josh Allen coming out. When playing lesser competition he looked good, but when he faced Power-5 teams he was dreadful. That was the main reason I didn't want him, but now I'm eating crow on that one.

It's gonna take more than that to scare me away from T-Law.

Herbert looks to be the best QB from this years class (by a lot imo) and didnt have really a marquee game against a better opponent.

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, Paradis said:

Nothing wrong with settling on TL as the next move for the Jets... it's comes down "what's the plan"... BUF had a plan, and a regime to support Allen. He's been successful because Brass & co. have intent behind their decisions... something completely alien to this organization at the moment. 

Very true. I believe if Allen and Darnold were switched, neither team would look very different from what they look like now. Buff has been building a very strong team, and for us to compete, with or without T-Law, Joey D is gonna have to do the same.

Like someone said earlier, it starts with Trevor Lawrence, but it doesn't end there.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Nothing wrong with settling on TL as the next move for the Jets... it's comes down "what's the plan"... BUF had a plan, and a regime to support Allen. He's been successful because Brass & co. have intent behind their decisions... something completely alien to this organization at the moment. 

Is anyone saying that though? Clearly Joe Douglas needs to start nailing draft picks and improving the overall talent on this team. Clearly Lawrence isn't going to set the world on fire with Chris Hogan and Braxton Berrios.

But it really isn't that hard to overhaul an NFL roster and the Jets are in excellent position to do so -- not to mention the second Gase is gone I suspect a lot of things on this team will change dramatically for the positive.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

I’m fcking livid with the Jets for not giving us a proper 3 year assessment period with Darnold. Look at this sh*t on the field. A disasterpiece. Total nightmare. We're supposed to evaluate his development with the last 2 years under Gase?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME... Look at Tannehill for Christ sakes.... "quick, lets go find a new toy and break it" 

I don't know if I'm ready to call TL generational. Too much Hyperbole in college evaluation these days.  Is it crazy to try something different and trade the #1 pick for 2-3 top 50 picks this year and next year and actually move the needle at WR/RB/Olne/secondary?

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This is a pretty critical point that a lot of the "put Lawrence on the Jets and he sucks" people seem to be missing.

Adam Gase, Dowell Loggains, and Gregg Williams will all be gone next year. We have two first round picks next year, are picking at the top of every round. Two first rounders in 2022. Lots of cap space, aren't tied up with bad contracts.

Yes, we suck right now. If Douglas is worth his keep there's a great opportunity to BOTH draft TL and overhaul this roster with a new coaching staff.

yes, definitely. I don't think this early you can be so completely settled on anything yet. It comes back to getting the GM and his new HC (sure af hope he gets to pick his HC) sit down and break down a strategy and plan. Is the plan to draft TL and focus on skill players while addressing Def through FA in the short term? etc etc.

There was NO plan with Darnold - and look at how that turned out. Conversely i do think they should play devils advocate (as any good GM should do) and say - what if we trade out of #1 and spend the next 2 drafts refueling this roster with top 40 picks. like 6-7 of them. What if Sam can pull a Tannehill - who looks great right now.

You have to have those conversations.

[Scoop24]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

the point of that part of the argument is to say that Sam Darnold could still be the guy.  a new coach and much more talent and darnold might be good as well no?  See Ryan Tannehill

Whats missing in this take Tannehill was actually competent QB under Gase. Sam has not shown one bit of consistency to date. 

[Icer]

1 minute ago, Scoop24 said:

Whats missing in this take Tannehill was actually competent QB under Gase. Sam has not shown one bit of consistency to date. 

The most consistent thing about Darnold so far is turning the ball over and missing games

[shevys]

39 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

He’s not a savior...no one is

Whether it’s TL, Darnold, Flacco’s Ghost, or some other jerkoff we draft under center, none of it matters unless JD can draft some legit players and build a core that can grow into a formidable football team

With that being said, if TL is a top 3 prospect all time, or the best prospect since Luck, or just the best QB in this draft...if you land #1 you take him and don’t think twice about it....If you’re JD you don’t look at the history of Jet blunders. You believe your the one that can build this team into a powerhouse over time....drafting TL Starts that process but it doesn’t finish it...

Agreed. While I don't think Darnold was a bad pick or a blunder, if Lawrence is available you have to grab him. Look at what the Cards did a year after drafting Rosen when they thought Kyler Murray was the guy for them. Sh*t happens.

[Paradis]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Herbert looks to be the best QB from this years class (by a lot imo) and didnt have really a marquee game against a better opponent.

I don't know how to explain that one. Befuddling to say the least... he lacked any big spot moments - yet scouts remained enamored. Maybe he was just a better fit for the pro game... 

[ZachEY]

53 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I'm a Trevor Lawrence fan, and he may wind up being the direction we go in, but some of you - the same majority blowing Sam before we drafted him, are completely out of control right now. 

Trevor in Green and White right now, isn't going to look all that different from Sam or anyone else with this organization and roster. Take a deep breath.

 

Has anyone actually taken the position that drafting Lawrence is the only thing this team needs to be competitive?

[Icer]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Trevor Lawrence is not winning anything if he was on this team this year.

Trevor is never playing with Gase as HC and the team as currently constructed so it's a meaningless comparison. The benefits of drafting Lawrence over Darnold is starting over on a new timeline with a new coach and a GM that drafted him, plus a ton of other draft picks and cap space to give him what he needs to succeed. If you stick with Darnold you are gambling that hes worth an extension and that a coach out there wants to come here and work with him in Year 4 where he has thus far shown a propensity to be skittish in the pocket, turn the ball over, and get injured or miss games.

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Whats missing in this take Tannehill was actually competent QB under Gase. Sam has not shown one bit of consistency to date. 

no he wasn't... that's ignorant to ignore his prior develop under the regime pre-Gase... Adam got his hands on Ryan after he'd be playing for 3 or so seasons, he proceeded to flash for a FEW GAMES... before Gase metastasized across the whole roster and ruined him and every other semblance of talent. 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

yes, definitely. I don't think this early you can be so completely settled on anything yet. It comes back to getting the GM and his new HC (sure af hope he gets to pick his HC) sit down and break down a strategy and plan. Is the plan to draft TL and focus on skill players while addressing Def through FA in the short term? etc etc.

There was NO plan with Darnold - and look at how that turned out. Conversely i do think they should play devils advocate (as any good GM should do) and say - what if we trade out of #1 and spend the next 2 drafts refueling this roster with top 40 picks. like 6-7 of them. What if Sam can pull a Tannehill - who looks great right now.

You have to have those conversations.

Completely agree on the plan stuff -- the fact that Maccagnan and Bowles were desperate in year four when Darnold was picked (combined with whiffing on the Gase hire) is why his career has been so badly mismanaged.

It's part of why Douglas hiring the coach, and drafting Lawrence makes so much sense -- get all three guys on the same page to start this this anew.

I don't agree on the devil's advocate stuff, personally. If you have the top pick and Lawrence is there you take him. 

[flgreen]

Who do you think they are talking about here?  Game stats are agains Iowa State, not exactly a power house.

 Here are the numbers: 18 of 36 for 219 yards, one touchdown, two interceptions and two rushes for negative-2 yards in a 66-10 loss to a team whose other wins came against San Jose State and Kansas.

 

 

Mahomes

C'mon folks lets give Lawrence at least 1 game before we start talking about him being a bust LOL

 

[Paradis]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't agree on the devil's advocate stuff, personally. If you have the top pick and Lawrence is there you take him. 

Disagree. That's how you end up with Quinnen Williams. Any GM worth their salt should be trying to poke holes on anything that seems that slam dunk. Get to know the prospects/plans intimately. What the risks are...  It seems juvenile not to entertain plans B and C and make an educated decision.