Beer; Justin Fields over analysis reminds me of J Herbert.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Wasn't he a big Zach Wilson supporter pre draft?

Not sure but he wouldnt own if he did, pretty sure he was super bold and was all about Generational Lawrence. 

All I can remember, is he was super duper loud about how terrible Fields was and just like last week, disappeared after he whipped the floor with Lawrence in the playoffs, only to rear his hater head during draft season again to give his hot take of Fields isnt worthy of a 1st round grade.  

[Morrissey]

On 9/16/2022 at 12:48 PM, Obrien2Toon said:

Wilson over Fields

Becton over Wirfs

were 2 layups that jd missed and will set us back 5 years 

Explain what you've seen from Fields that makes you say not taken him was missed layup?

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Fields is bad.  And that has nothing to do with Zach Wilson.

It shouldn't have anything to do with Wilson, you're right. Yet, here you are sunshines and rainbows for two straight years about a player who is even worse than Fields, and that's where the two tie in.

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

It shouldn't have anything to do with Wilson, you're right. Yet, here you are sunshines and rainbows for two straight years about a player who is even worse than Fields, and that's where the two tie in.

He hasn't been worse than fields.  Fields seems lost when I watch him play.

Zach was mostly bad his rookie year (no sunshine and rainbows) but he showed progress and growth throughout his rookie year.  Didn't see that from Fields.  

But honestly, I don't care about Fields and probably shouldn't have even commented.  I apologize.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

It shouldn't have anything to do with Wilson, you're right. Yet, here you are sunshines and rainbows for two straight years about a player who is even worse than Fields, and that's where the two tie in.

Worse than Fields at creating?

Yes.

Worse than Fields at running an offense?

No. 

All Fields can do is scramble around until someone breaks open.  Almost every good play he has stems from this.  

Fyi, I was pro Fields and anti Wilson pre-draft. 

[Morrissey]

3 hours ago, JiFapono said:

No where to be found last week but feeling vindicated this week?  Because the Bears lost to Green Bay in Green Bay? lmfao.   Looking forward to your weekly rollercoaster ride! 

 

anyone taken away anything good or bad about someones performance from that week 1 game in Chicago is lost.

[JustInFudge]

32 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

anyone taken away anything good or bad about someones performance from that week 1 game in Chicago is lost.

If you say so, but if I were fan of either team, I would have preferred how Fields performed vs. Lance, who was taken 8 picks ahead of him and is now out for the season.  I'd also prefer Justin Fields performance vs. that of Zach Wilson's first 2 weeks as well but sure, things count when they count and dont when they dont.

 

 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Fields is bad.  And that has nothing to do with Zach Wilson.

In 12 Game starts he still has a higher QBR than Zach Wilson over 13 game starts.   While Fields has sucked, he has sucked slightly less than Zach Wilson over a very comparable sample size.  

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In 12 Game starts he still has a higher QBR than Zach Wilson over 13 game starts.   While Fields has sucked, he has sucked slightly less than Zach Wilson over a very comparable sample size.  

I imagine there are posts such as this on Bears messageboards:

“No QB could succeed in this dysfunctional environment and with these weaponz.”

 

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

I imagine there are posts such as this on Bears messageboards:

“No QB could succeed in this dysfunctional environment and with these weaponz.”

 

I'm not ready to write off either Fields or Zach at this point.  Fields at least has the physical freekish ability going for him.  

[jvill 51]

I was as big a fan of Fields coming out of the draft as anyone, but he was mostly awful last year and has been awful this year. This slap fight over whether Wilson or Fields has been better thus far is sad. I still would have selected Fields over Wilson in the draft, but that is based entirely on the college film; neither of them has done anything on an NFL field to move the needle in any direction other than down.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Yet Fields won the same amount of games on a team who fired their entire coaching staff and an offense completely devoid of talent. And now he’s playing on somehow a worse offense.

If you want to count injuries against Fields, have a gander at Wilson.

 

The Bears were the better team. 
Not the point, wasn’t comparing the teams, was saying that ZW didn’t play play fewer games.  You want to makes Fields better I get it 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

He hasn't been worse than fields.  Fields seems lost when I watch him play.

Zach was mostly bad his rookie year (no sunshine and rainbows) but he showed progress and growth throughout his rookie year.  Didn't see that from Fields.  

But honestly, I don't care about Fields and probably shouldn't have even commented.  I apologize.

Fair enough. Here's what I think:

I think Fields seems lost because he has to learn two playbooks from two coaching staffs in two years, while playing with absolute garbage everywhere on the field. We've seem the same from Wilson when he was down players due to injury last year.

I think you saw progress because LaFleur is a very good OC and the talent around Wilson started to play better as the season went on.

What bothers me about Wilson is the fact that his progress was so limited. I would have liked to have seen him ball out a bit more, and the fact that he didn't is why I'm so super down on him. Well, that and the fact that he's either always got a hurt body part or hurt psyche.

I did a whole analysis on this about a month ago, but his TD% even during that "good stretch to close the season" was absolutely abysmal. So sure:

• give him marks for progress in efficiency (throwing less passes which means less chances to be intercepted and throwing shorter passes which means higher completion percentage even after accounting for all of the swing/screen passes falling to the ground),
• but then we also have to take away marks for the fact that his productivity didn't increase at all despite better coaching/playcalling and better gamescripts because the Jets weren't being blown away

[greenwichjetfan]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The Bears were the better team. 
Not the point, wasn’t comparing the teams, was saying that ZW didn’t play play fewer games.  You want to makes Fields better I get it 

I'm not making anyone better, pal. If I had that ability, Zach wouldn't be the worst QB in the league - when he actually plays.

The facts are what they are. Choose to turn a blind eye to them when they don't fit your narrative. You have that right and have exercised it plenty over the years.

[jgb]

28 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm not ready to write off either Fields or Zach at this point.  Fields at least has the physical freekish ability going for him.  

Draft the freak is my new QB draft strategy ripped off from @Jetsfan80.

 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Draft the freak is my new QB draft strategy ripped off from @Jetsfan80.

That wasn't my idea though.  Pretty sure it was Brandon Beane's (Buffalo GM and UNCW graduate).  Or maybe even the Carolina Panthers' in 2011 when they drafted Cam Newton. 

Which, come to think of it, Beane was the Director of Football Operations for the Panthers at that time (he later got promoted to Carolina's Assistant GM job in 2015 before getting the Bills' job in '17).  Never really considered that connection there until right now, even though Allen ended up being a rich man's Cam.  

Oh, and know where fired Panther OC Joe Brady ended up?  QB Coach for....the Bills.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The Bears were the better team. 
Not the point, wasn’t comparing the teams, was saying that ZW didn’t play play fewer games.  You want to makes Fields better I get it 

Offensively?

How were the Bears a better team?

Allen Robinson dogged it all year.  Basically preserved his body and health for FA.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Offensively?

How were the Bears a better team?

Allen Robinson dogged it all year.  Basically preserved his body and health for FA.

And what did Davis do?  Robinso dogged it?  Because he didn’t put up his usual numbers with a rookie QB?  Then earned himself $18 mil per?   
And defense does help an offense.  

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That wasn't my idea though.  Pretty sure it was Brandon Beane's (Buffalo GM and UNCW graduate).  Or maybe even the Carolina Panthers' in 2011 when they drafted Cam Newton. 

Which, come to think of it, Beane was the Director of Football Operations for the Panthers at that time (he later got promoted to Carolina's Assistant GM job in 2015 before getting the Bills' job in '17).  Never really considered that connection there until right now, even though Allen ended up being a rich man's Cam.  

Oh, and know where fired Panther OC Joe Brady ended up?  QB Coach for....the Bills.

You’re like Kevin Bacon but instead it’s “7 degrees of Wilmington.”

[slimjasi]

8 hours ago, Biggs said:

I'm not ready to write off either Fields or Zach at this point.  Fields at least has the physical freekish ability going for him.  

On the flip side, we have already seen Fields play two games in year 2, while Wilson hasn’t played yet. 
 

if the year 2 jump for fields is coming, it hasn’t come yet. 

8 hours ago, Biggs said:

In 12 Game starts he still has a higher QBR than Zach Wilson over 13 game starts.   While Fields has sucked, he has sucked slightly less than Zach Wilson over a very comparable sample size.  

I’m always fascinated to see people use QBR, or any single metric, like this. FYI, Joe Flacco has a lower QBR than Trey Lance this year. Give me Joe’s two games over Lance’s two games, any day of the week. Josh Allen had the sixth best QBR last season - he was easily one of the 2 or 3 best QBs I saw last year. 
 

There is no single metric that perfectly summarizes a QB’s performance, so something like QBR really can’t be used to say things like “QB X was better than QB Y” - you can only say that “QB X had a higher QBR than QB Y”

Btw, if you compare apples to apples: Zach Wilson had a slightly higher QBR LAST season (33.4) than Justin Fields did LAST season (31.4). We haven’t seen Wilson in year 2 yet. 

[SuicidalSince98]

Fields has not shown any improvement in year 2

Wilsons improvement is TBD

[Irish Jet]

20 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Even after losing to the defending 4 time mvp and a team thats gone to the NFCCG the past two years, Fields has a better record than Wilson while (1) playing in fewer games, (2) playing on less talented teams, and (3) under 2 entirely different coaching staffs.

Meanwhile, Fields shouldn’t have even been drafted, but the excuses and baseless praise for Wilson is endless.

Not suspect at all.

Who in the world mentioned Zach Wilson?

[Irish Jet]

19 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Not sure but he wouldnt own if he did, pretty sure he was super bold and was all about Generational Lawrence. 

All I can remember, is he was super duper loud about how terrible Fields was and just like last week, disappeared after he whipped the floor with Lawrence in the playoffs, only to rear his hater head during draft season again to give his hot take of Fields isnt worthy of a 1st round grade.  

Never happened.

[Irish Jet]

21 hours ago, maury77 said:

Wasn't he a big Zach Wilson supporter pre draft?

I liked Wilson as the next best QB after Lawrence. He has been trash. Probably will continue to be trash.

I don't know how any of that makes Justin Fields better?

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

@Irish Jet

 

[JohnnyLV]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@Irish Jet

 

Well Fields can't play the position so this is hardly surprising. He put up one of the worst performance by a QB in a win I have ever seen Sunday. 

[slimjasi]

Justin Fields in year 2 is somehow worse than he was in year 1, so far. Lower yards/attempt, lower completion percentage, higher INT percentage, worse TD:INT ratio, lower QBR. It's only been three games, but that's hard to imagine. 

[GreenFish]

I’ve watched Fields play a couple of times this year. He’s not good. Cant call him a bust just yet. But it’s highly likely that year 2 bump is not coming. He doesnt see the field well.

Right now, Lawrence has separated himself. He’s the only one that has shown to be a FQB.

Jones and Mills look serviceable. Likely starters but not difference makers.

Zach and Lance are TBD. We need a bigger sample size on both. Over the next three games we should have a good idea what Zach is. The 49ers wont know what they have in Lance until next year.

[Jetsfan80]

20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Well Fields can't play the position so this is hardly surprising. He put up one of the worst performance by a QB in a win I have ever seen Sunday. 

Sure but you still need to let him drop back.  He’s “their guy” this year for better or worse.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

As far as learning from mistakes - how does one go about scouting for quarterbacks that 'see the field well' first?

There's a floor of arm strength that matters, as well as a bonus of athletic traits, but the common denominator in nearly every bust is that a dude just cannot get past his first read. 

I'm just curious as to how they scout for this? 

[FootballLove]

Any chance the 2021 QB class suffers the same fate as the 2018 class??? If you had to bet your house RIGHT NOW on a 2021 QB to save the entire class from another historic low, who would that QB be? Lance? Fields? Zack? Or maybe that long hair skinny QB in Jacksonville?

If you had the power to swap 2021 QBs around anyway you wish, who is our QB going forward? Your answer will be our starting QB for the next decade, win lose or draw.

GO!

and who would you stick in NE? Mac? Fields? Zack?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

I really wanted the Jets to draft Fields over Wilson, largely because I thought his athleticism would get him through the rookie learning curve better than Wilson.  So far neither looks like they will be a legit QB, but they are both still young enough that hopefully they can get it

[SuicidalSince98]

6 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I really wanted the Jets to draft Fields over Wilson, largely because I thought his athleticism would get him through the rookie learning curve better than Wilson.  So far neither looks like they will be a legit QB, but they are both still young enough that hopefully they can get it

Fields has played in year 2 and regressed, which seems impossible.

Wilsons 2nd year is still unknown, advantage Wilson 

[JohnnyLV]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure but you still need to let him drop back.  He’s “their guy” this year for better or worse.  

Oh not suggesting otherwise. But with a solid run blocking OL it makes sense they will run as much as possible. Interestingly Fields is struggling despite the Bears having the best pass blocking OL in the NFL so far. Some of this of course is because they pass so little that defenses are more keying run but still that's not good for Fields.

Interestingly Carolina has one of the best overall OL in the NFL yet Mayfield has been one of the worst QBs in the NFL and not surprisingly the Jets OL is below average in both pass and run blocking. Flacco does bring down the PBWR though

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

17 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Fields has played in year 2 and regressed, which seems impossible.

Wilsons 2nd year is still unknown, advantage Wilson 

agree to a point, I have not given up on Wilson yet, but the fact that he hasnt played yet is becuase of injuries which does seem to be a problem with him, and is a definite concern.