Beer; Justin Fields over analysis reminds me of J Herbert.

[Charlie Brown]

13 hours ago, nycdan said:

I'm a Fields guy but I agree with this.  Wilson does throw a very nice ball.  In a perfect world, he might be the most accurate, although I've seen stats showing Fields to have been more accurate in certain situations.  But I don't think we've seen enough of Wilson throwing under duress to really know how he'll translate to a league where the likes of Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack and Quinnen Williams are consistently coming to separate his head from his body.  He just hasn't seen anything remotely like that and it changes things.  That, to me, is the big red flag that some of his proponents seem to be deliberately avoiding.

I agree...

For example, I don't get it,Wilson was awful last year his own team said he stunk and BYU made it a QB competition at the beginning of the year because Wilson was previously so bad.  
 

Common sense tells me that this was the real reason why Zack wasn’t named a Captain at the beginning of the year, it was because his own team hardly a juggernaut thought that Wilson wasn’t any good. 
 

HUGE RED FLAG!! ? 

Now in an odd season, impacted by COVID , lockdowns and strange protocals with much of college football not playing, Wilson looks great against weaker competition!

Well that is a REAL risk and not the fantasy island stuff we’ve been hearing and talking about with Justin Fields!

And don’t get me wrong I like Wilson, I do, but he is a gamble just as it is with any QB coming out of college.  

[Matt39]

Bob McGinn notes

Zach Wilson, Brigham Young (6-foot-2, 210 pounds): Three-star recruit. “He will not be the first pick in the draft, but he should be,” one scout said. “Love him. He’s just a natural. He just has the movement, the looseness, the throwing from all angles, the jumping around in the pocket. His release is quick as hell. He can throw the ball. He is a nifty, elusive type in the pocket. He can run a little bit.” Battled injuries as the starter in 2018 and ’19, and underwent surgeries to repair a labrum and hand. Vastly improved in 2020 with an NFL passer rating of 138.2, up from 84.9 in 2019.

Some scouts worry that his slight frame might lead to durability issues. “How big is he?” asked one. “He’s only going to be like 205 (pounds). He may be only 6-(foot)-1. He’s been spoiled a little bit, too.” A fourth scout described him as a combination of Kyler Murray and Patrick Mahomes. Retorted another scout: “There’s a vast difference (to Mahomes). The physical skills of throwing the football, he’s not even close to humming the ball like Patrick. I don’t know if he’s innately competitive and tough as Patrick. Patrick’s probably smarter, too.”

Justin Fields, Ohio State (6-foot-3, 228 pounds): Spent his freshman season at Georgia before transferring and becoming a two-year starter. “He’s a modern-day RPO quarterback,” said one scout. “He’s a naturally accurate ball thrower and the ball gets out of his hands, too. He’s not a runner like Lamar (Jackson), but he’s way better than Jalen Hurts was. He will have to learn progressions. Very athletic. Very cool demeanor. Plus, he’s sturdy.”

Led the Buckeyes to a 1-2 record in the College Football Playoff. “Love his makeup, the playmaking, his competitiveness, the movement,” a second scout said. “He’s poised. He stepped up in the big games. He’s just not a quick processor in the pocket. He’s more methodical. That’s a worry. He had the streak in the Indiana game: ‘What is this guy doing?’” Passed for 67 TDs and ran for another 19. “He is one of the top athletes (at quarterback) of all time,” a third scout said. “Best thing Fields does is throw the deep ball. But is he Jameis Winston? That’s who I see. I see the best quarterback in the draft on one play, and on the next play, I see a guy that makes stupid mistakes. Throws off his back foot a lot. Has a lot of balls tipped. He’s a first-rounder, but I wouldn’t take him until the bottom (of the round).”

Passer rating was 127.6. “He played his worst game in the Big Ten Championship (game) against Northwestern, yet they still found a way to win,” said a fourth scout. “People are saying they don’t even belong there (in the playoff), and he plays a damn near perfect game against Clemson. In the national championship, he carried them. What would be ideal for him would be to go somewhere and not have to play the first year. But the physical talent is so wow, they’re going to see that in practice and say, ‘This guy has to play.’ There needs to be a tremendous amount of growth, which I think he is capable of.”

[Irish Jet]

Fields shouldn't be going in the first round.

His mechanics are absolutely disgusting. The velocity on his passes is so inconsistent, especially towards the side-lines. Add that to abysmal pocket awareness which gets exposed every time there's a decent rush on his and it's obvious he's going to be eaten alive the NFL. People look at the physical tools and how pretty he looks behind perfect protection instead of how he reacts in certain situations. He's total trash. Out of the league in 6 years. 

[Tranquilo]

Zach Wilson's size shouldn't be an issue. Kyler Murray is 5'7 190, and he's doing well.

[QB1]

21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Bob McGinn notes

Zach Wilson, Brigham Young (6-foot-2, 210 pounds): Three-star recruit. “He will not be the first pick in the draft, but he should be,” one scout said. “Love him. He’s just a natural. He just has the movement, the looseness, the throwing from all angles, the jumping around in the pocket. His release is quick as hell. He can throw the ball. He is a nifty, elusive type in the pocket. He can run a little bit.” Battled injuries as the starter in 2018 and ’19, and underwent surgeries to repair a labrum and hand. Vastly improved in 2020 with an NFL passer rating of 138.2, up from 84.9 in 2019.

Some scouts worry that his slight frame might lead to durability issues. “How big is he?” asked one. “He’s only going to be like 205 (pounds). He may be only 6-(foot)-1. He’s been spoiled a little bit, too.” A fourth scout described him as a combination of Kyler Murray and Patrick Mahomes. Retorted another scout: “There’s a vast difference (to Mahomes). The physical skills of throwing the football, he’s not even close to humming the ball like Patrick. I don’t know if he’s innately competitive and tough as Patrick. Patrick’s probably smarter, too.”

Justin Fields, Ohio State (6-foot-3, 228 pounds): Spent his freshman season at Georgia before transferring and becoming a two-year starter. “He’s a modern-day RPO quarterback,” said one scout. “He’s a naturally accurate ball thrower and the ball gets out of his hands, too. He’s not a runner like Lamar (Jackson), but he’s way better than Jalen Hurts was. He will have to learn progressions. Very athletic. Very cool demeanor. Plus, he’s sturdy.”

Led the Buckeyes to a 1-2 record in the College Football Playoff. “Love his makeup, the playmaking, his competitiveness, the movement,” a second scout said. “He’s poised. He stepped up in the big games. He’s just not a quick processor in the pocket. He’s more methodical. That’s a worry. He had the streak in the Indiana game: ‘What is this guy doing?’” Passed for 67 TDs and ran for another 19. “He is one of the top athletes (at quarterback) of all time,” a third scout said. “Best thing Fields does is throw the deep ball. But is he Jameis Winston? That’s who I see. I see the best quarterback in the draft on one play, and on the next play, I see a guy that makes stupid mistakes. Throws off his back foot a lot. Has a lot of balls tipped. He’s a first-rounder, but I wouldn’t take him until the bottom (of the round).”

Passer rating was 127.6. “He played his worst game in the Big Ten Championship (game) against Northwestern, yet they still found a way to win,” said a fourth scout. “People are saying they don’t even belong there (in the playoff), and he plays a damn near perfect game against Clemson. In the national championship, he carried them. What would be ideal for him would be to go somewhere and not have to play the first year. But the physical talent is so wow, they’re going to see that in practice and say, ‘This guy has to play.’ There needs to be a tremendous amount of growth, which I think he is capable of.”

That description of Wilson is literally why some NFL people love Darnold. I think the difference may be that Wilson plays with supreme confidence and is better at understanding X Os pre snap and reading coverage. He also has much better mechanics than Sam so it appears that his arm is stronger. 

[Jet Nut]

17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

The biggest knock is he sucks

You might want to stop with the over the top nonsense.

 

[FTL Jet Fan]

17 hours ago, Ben Had said:

LOL...it's not over for Tua yet. Let's see how this year turns out.?

If he is still on the team.

[FTL Jet Fan]

17 hours ago, section314 said:

Said this a few times before in other threads..........I would make it even $ that Miami takes either Fields /Wilson at #3. They know they blew it with Tua.

I would throw in some $, would not surprise me at all. Hopefully we make the right choice.

[Chrebetfan80]

4 hours ago, Jdub03 said:

How much stock do you put into Justin being #2 to Lawrence from High School on? It may be nothing, but I like a player with something to prove.  

in terms of him as a draft prospect?  I don't really factor a ton of high school into my draft decisions.  If you want to say it gives him more intrinsic motivation to be better than lawrence because he's always been second to him? ehhh I guess that could be the case, but I dont know, maybe in a head to head matchup like we had in the playoff this year that gives some juice, but in the grand scheme of things I dont think so. 

A player with something to prove is not quantifiable really so its hard to say to what extent something like that plays a role in success. Fields could fall out of the top 10 and have a chip on his shoulder, but to what extent that plays into his success in the NFL?  no clue. 

[Matt39]

Wilson does not have the arm of Rodgers or Mahomes. Maybe Murray but just off eye test that seems like a stretch too. 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You might want to stop with the over the top nonsense.

 

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, nycdan said:

He talks about Fields being a 'one-read' thrower who runs if the first look isn't there.  We've all seen (at least those of us who watched tape) countless examples disproving that narrative.  I'm really surprised to see Simms spouting it because it just is patently false.  There are legitimate criticisms you can make, but that is so not true that it makes me question the whole segment.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/02/nfl-draft-justin-fields-one-read-quarterback-report if you're too lazy to look for one on your own.

So one has to wonder....does Simms just not see what is clearly on film, or is he trying too hard to stake out a position different from the crowd?

You guys are looking through some expensive ruby quartz glasses when watching Fields.  Everything Simms said about Fields was exactly right

[nycdan]

Just now, Philc1 said:

You guys are looking through some expensive ruby quartz glasses when watching Fields.  Everything Simms said about Fields was exactly right

You keep saying it out loud and maybe exactly nobody but you and the other Wilson fanboys will believe it.  it's been clearly refuted many, many times by many analysts with tape to back it up.  The smart ones understand how the Ohio State system can make it look that way to people who don't look past the first few plays and see what they want to see. But the Wilsonettes just keep on keepin' on.

Fields is a great QB prospect with flaws like every other one but he is not a one-read guy.  That is not his flaw.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You keep saying it out loud and maybe exactly nobody but you and the other Wilson fanboys will believe it.  it's been clearly refuted many, many times by many analysts with tape to back it up.  The smart ones understand how the Ohio State system can make it look that way to people who don't look past the first few plays and see what they want to see. But the Wilsonettes just keep on keepin' on.

Fields is a great QB prospect with flaws like every other one but he is not a one-read guy.  That is not his flaw.

A “great Qb prospect”?

 

Jesus H Jesus 

 

And I don’t want Wilson either he’s Sam Bradford 2.0

[Warfish]

I strongly prefer Watson (just like I did the year he was drafted).  I believe he can be had for #2, a 2022 #1 and other lesser picks.  I do not believe that will "cripple" us as some think.

Of the draft class, I prefer Fields over Wilson.  But I prefer Mac Jones or Trask in a later round pick to any of the prospects likely at #2.  I don't believe Fields is ready to play at the NFL level, and I (as I've said repeatedly) do not believe that Wilson, a small school, weak opponents, undersized QB is legit, despite all the hype to the contrary.  

1. Trade for Watson, best QB in Jets history the second he takes the field in Jets Green.  Our first real franchise QB since Namath, will set every Jets passing record.  Trade Darnold.

2. Trade down, get an elite WR at wherever we wind up (say #6), and draft Mac Jones at #23.  Bonus points if we get both Alabama WR and QB.  Trade Darnold.

3. Trade down, draft Sewell (presuming trade ups are for QB's), draft a WR at #23, draft Trask in the 2nd/3rd round, let him compete with Darnold.

I would not draft Wilson or Lance.  

JMO.

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Now you might want to think a little.  #5 by one talking head equals sucks to you.  Got it, and hes Geno Smith.  

[UntouchableCrew]

I absolutely think there is a parallel and the recent success of Herbert (and Allen, although that's a little different) is part of why I like Fields. You can't teach athletic traits like these guys have. 

[nycdan]

59 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

A “great Qb prospect”?

 

Jesus H Jesus 

 

And I don’t want Wilson either he’s Sam Bradford 2.0

I hope you like Chris Simms because you and he are pretty much Population: 2 on the Island of "Justin Fields isn't a great prospect"

[RichardTodd27]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

You guys are looking through some expensive ruby quartz glasses when watching Fields.  Everything Simms said about Fields was exactly right

Can you tell me the last mobile (and athletic) QB taken in the 1st round that was a bust? Fields fits that profile of recent 1st round QB success stories like Allen, Watson, Kyler, Lamar......

 

[Jetsfan80]

36 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I hope you like Chris Simms because you and he are pretty much Population: 2 on the Island of "Justin Fields isn't a great prospect"

Don't forget @Irish Jet

[JTJet]

21 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Justin will be a stud it’s just the popular thing to do right now and that’s bash Fields. Sad to say most people in this age are mindless sheep that do nothing but regurgitate talking points from the idiot box. And most are scared to stand alone against the crowd, hive mind zombie, sheep. 
 

Just the world we live in unfortunately ?

Wtf

You think the "popular" thing is to bash Fields?? Show me the 20+ threads bashing his religion, looks, dating choices, or parents and we'll talk. 

The zombie hive mind is to bash Wilson and it's not even close. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

A “great Qb prospect”?

 

Jesus H Jesus 

 

And I don’t want Wilson either he’s Sam Bradford 2.0

Youre a difficult person to relate to. 

[greenwichjetfan]

Love Fields and think he has every right to be the #2 pick. I think his ceiling is higher than Lawrence's as well, but his floor is far lower which is why Trevor is definitely the #1 pick. I'm worried sick about Wilson and Lance. Wouldn't mind Jones but he's a mid to late 1st for me and I know he'll go much higher than that. 

Right now is silly season. It's relatively quiet so this is when all of the other guys' teams get a chance to hype, whereas the known commodities are quiet. Lawrence and Fields' teams have both respectively given very little to the media. Starting in April, you'll start to see a lot more commotion about these two guys.

[nycdan]

16 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Wtf

You think the "popular" thing is to bash Fields?? Show me the 20+ threads bashing his religion, looks, dating choices, or parents and we'll talk. 

The zombie hive mind is to bash Wilson and it's not even close. 

I think the 'bashing' as you call it, of Wilson is in proportion to the equally fervent praise he gets here and in the media, which some people find a bit unwarranted.  Comments like 'WHEN the Jets draft Zach Wilson' and the like are like some kind of chew toy for some posters here.  You don't see (or at least I don't) anyone saying "WHEN the Jets draft Justin Fields".  There's a level of irrationality that seems to demand people bash the other guy so that Joe Douglas will magically read it and say "OH SNAP!  I NEVER KNEW THAT!  I NEED TO CHANGE MY DRAFT BOARD TO [Insert Name]".  

I'd say it was worse for a while and it seems to have largely leveled off now, which is a very good thing.  I'd love to see it continue to stay in that pattern.  It's fine to have a preference.  It's even fine to critique other players.  But the bombastic comments like "Everyone thinks player xxx sucks" when clearly that's untrue are tiresome for many here, whoever you prefer.  We could probably all tone it down a bit.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

A “great Qb prospect”?

 

Jesus H Jesus 

 

And I don’t want Wilson either he’s Sam Bradford 2.0

I thought he was Pennington 2.0? Make up your mind!

[RedBeardedSavage]

28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don't forget @Irish Jet

 

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I hope you like Chris Simms because you and he are pretty much Population: 2 on the Island of "Justin Fields isn't a great prospect"

I would like to be included in said “hater” group. 

Respect the kid for his toughness but not a believer he’ll succeed in the NFL. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

A “great Qb prospect”?

 

Jesus H Jesus 

Jesus H Jesus, Liberty University, he truly was one saintly prospect, no question.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

I would like to be included in said “hater” group. 

Respect the kid for his toughness but not a believer he’ll succeed in the NFL. 

statistically, you are probably right (most guys don't succeed), but I like him. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

statistically, you are probably right (most guys don't succeed), but I like him. 

I’m a total hypocrite when it comes to my Fields assessment. I think his flaws are the same as Darnold - does not see the field well. 

Yet I want to RE-roll with Sam and there’s a huge crossover between Fields beleivers/Dump Darnold’ers. None of it makes sense.

The smartest guys on the site just sh*t on every move. It’s the safest play for a Jets fan. They’re also cowards, though :). 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’m a total hypocrite when it comes to my Fields assessment. I think his flaws are the same as Darnold - does not see the field well. 

Yet I want to RE-roll with Sam and there’s a huge crossover between Fields beleivers/Dump Darnold’ers. None of it makes sense.

The smartest guys on the site just sh*t on every move. It’s the safest play for a Jets fan. They’re also cowards, though :). 

That's fair. The only point I would make is that we have seen Darnold struggle in the NFL for 38 games, while Fields has the advantage of being an unknown. 

But, at the end of the day, we are all guessing. 

Almost all of these guys have the physical tools to succeed or even maybe be great, but no one knows how any of these guys will be able to process information in real time under the duress of an NFL pass rush at the next level. No one knows anything. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

That's fair. The only point I would make is that we have seen Darnold struggle in the NFL for 38 games, while Fields has the advantage of being an unknown. 

But, at the end of the day, we are all guessing. 

Almost all of these guys have the physical tools to succeed or even maybe be great, but no one knows how any of these guys will be able to process information in real time under the duress of an NFL pass rush at the next level. No one knows anything. 

I think that’s a fair point. The argument to reload on another rookie deal and take another shot at a quarterback with high upside and hope for a better outcome with better coaching/supporting cast.

It’s certainly a reasonable position.

I think at this point I’d prefer Wilson. At least, from my amateur assessment, he’s got the best natural passing ability. But I worry about his ability to hold up under NFL hits and I can’t deny the dude benefitted from amazing protection college. 

All I can say for sure is; this is a huge year for Joe Douglas and his choices this offseason will likely define his career.

[Jetsfan80]

58 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Youre a difficult person to relate to. 

Don't even try and instead use the ignore feature.  It's all the rage!

[nycdan]

28 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’m a total hypocrite when it comes to my Fields assessment. I think his flaws are the same as Darnold - does not see the field well. 

Yet I want to RE-roll with Sam and there’s a huge crossover between Fields beleivers/Dump Darnold’ers. None of it makes sense.

The smartest guys on the site just sh*t on every move. It’s the safest play for a Jets fan. They’re also cowards, though :). 

I'm okay with Sam as well.  For me, it comes down to what the potential windfall for the #2 pick is.  If no team ponies up a really good offer, then I can see taking Fields.  If we get some crazy haul to move down somewhere inside the top-8 then I'm good with that as well because that's where my list of guys I think I'd be happy to come away with at the top of the draft ends.

Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Sewell, Chase, Waddle, Pitts, Smith.  If we move down, get tons more picks or players to do so, and come away with one of those guys, I think it could be a great outcome.  If we move down and still come away with a QB, that's even cooler maybe.

I also love the Watson move if it's reasonable enough.

The only path I'm not super keen on is taking Wilson at #2 since I think Fields is the better prospect.  But I'm prepared for even that potential outcome.  Whatever happens, we'll be a better team than we are today.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

I'm okay with Sam as well.  

[adb280z]

10 hours ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Can you tell me the last mobile (and athletic) QB taken in the 1st round that was a bust? Fields fits that profile of recent 1st round QB success stories like Allen, Watson, Kyler, Lamar......

 

Mariotta?