So... Wilson went off-script and won. Did Lafleur earn any credit?

[ryu79]

It seemed to finally click for him that he needs to threaten the defense deep to see fewer eight man fronts - and it worked. 

I don't buy the premise of the thread because listening to Wilson explain those plays, they weren't random instinctual moments - he felt comfortable making those throws because of how he knew the secondary would react to the routes his team was putting out - he seemed much better prepared this week end used his abilities to our benefit but to hear him describe it, those moments worked because of the system rather than in spite. 

Two things I don't understand:

- Why don't we have ANY QB draws given Zach has wheels and hasn't done a single one all year? I couldn't understand why we didn't do this in the red zone yesterday. Give the defense something to think about...

- Why is Lafleur on the sideline? He has been vocal about being more comfortable in the booth. I wonder if that's impacting stuff, and he doesn't see the field as well. I'm gonna guess he wants to be closer to Zach and they are missing Knapp on sideline (which was probably the plan) but we need a solve there if it's an issue for him.

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

 

- Why don't we have ANY QB draws given Zach has wheels and hasn't done a single one all year? I couldn't understand why we didn't do this in the red zone yesterday. Give the defense something to think about...

 

no thank you.

i forget the game it was maybe Thursday night where they did the QB sneak at the goaline. the defense stop him but the OL started pushing and this QB got his body all twisted. i dont know how they didnt break his spine. no way i want to risk Zach doing that.

now somewhere else down the field it you want to call a draw where he could slide before he gets hit then thats fine.

i know you seen Sam do it but someone's going to light him up on that goaline. 

[92ShaunEllis92]

22 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The clowns have come out of hiding. 

Takes a clown to know a clown. Lol

 

22 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

 

Mike Lafleur is one of the brightest, young offensive minds in the game and we are extremely lucky to have him.  Cant wait to see what he cooks up for the Falcons this Sunday.

Lol!!!!?

Now THAT’s a funny and ridiculous statement NOT based on truth. 
 

I hope I’m proven wrong, but the incumbent OC has shown to be a moron (press conferences & playcalling) and the same should apply to those who believe otherwise based on the first 4 games. 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

13 more games before this topic is worth all the sturm und drang.

Personally, I'll evaluate how I feel about Coach L. on the totality of the 2021 season and the improvement shown over the course of the season.

Not just the first 2, 3 or 4 games.

We are literally in no rush.  Absolutely nothing is going to change in re: Coach L. during this season.

So why not wait, and see what the whole picture looks like, not just one small corner?

 

The whole rush to demonize LaFleur is weird, even for Jets fans.

[92ShaunEllis92]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

The whole rush to demonize LeFleur is weird, even for Jets fans.

If you’ve been a fan long enough and have some knowledge of football, the lack of offensive production, the routes and plays that have been designed and called, the players who are active/inactive IN ADDITION to his amateur hour press conferences all seem too familiar of previous clueless and/or stubborn coaches. 
 

It’s not to demonize, but some homers here need to be more realistic about this ‘21 team offense while others need to vent their frustrations that they’ve seen this bad movie before. 
 

it’s a work in progress as the season progresses along, but there have been some troubling signs on the offense. 

[Action Zachtion]

3 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Zach left wide open receivers all over the field and Davis decided he’d start the game with Stone hands and ice skates. Nothing about the flaws of this week’s game was on LaFleur. The offense left a ton of plays on the field that were there for the taking


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

It's not  4th grade playground football where the QB drops back and scans back and forth across the field lol. 

[batman10023]

5 hours ago, nj meadowlands said:

Anyone else who was at the game notice where LaFleur stands when the Jets have the ball?  He literally stands on the opposite 30 yard line, by himself.  It makes no sense to me.

Gase2.0?

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, Paradis said:

I can't say any of this makes sense to me. This isn't Burger King. He's in a leadership role, and there's accountability.

The Jets won because Wilson said "fck this" and rolled out and wound up doubling the stat sheet... how you can dismiss the point being made. Count the number of 2nd down draw plays that went for a loss or 2 yards or less., or the routes ran falling short of 1st downs.

I'm sorry, but your reply is overtly dismissing a valid concern. 

it's not that it isn't a valid concern just like it was for loggins or schitty or gailey or any other oc the jets have had.  but what it is is more than a little premature.  and to say wilson was simply rolling out to double the stat sheet is foolish.  where were the receivers going?  they weren't going "off script".  and, as other have pointed out he did make quite a few good throws from the pocket.

[Dunnie]

LaFleur is still clueless
he should have built an entire offense around the deep passing game and Wilson’s strengths
 

Meh.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Like Favre and Schotty Jr all over again.

Ymmm .no

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Gase2.0?

Ummm no.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

It's not  4th grade playground football where the QB drops back and scans back and forth across the field lol. 

If you watch really good OLs it is exactly that.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

The disdain for LaFleur is childish tripe.

Guy is a rookie OC. The same guys calling fornhis head now would be complaining if he was let go and succeeded elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[BP]

13 hours ago, Claymation said:

I read somewhere that LaFleur decided to open up the game. The defense was loading the box to stop the run and felt they could get chunk plays through the air. The running game won't get going until the defense starts respecting Zach's arm.

They were daring Wilson to throw the ball in the first half. And lafleur continued running into a stacked line on first and second down. It was only in the second half after hitting some deep passes that the running game got going. 
 

now let’s see if lafleur learns from this or continues with the dunce cap until we’re down 2 scores.

[Scott Dierking]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Considering he didn't call any of the plays that actually won the game, no.

He thinks we can run the ball.  Clueless.

SAR I

What about the plays that Wilson missed (3rd down in the flat, tight end at the 4) that were first reads, that if made, would have won the game where OT was not even needed? 

The stubborn agendas of some (along with the trolling), are just ridiculous here sometimes.

The idea that the OC gets blame on losses and no credit when they win is ridiculously stupid. 

[FidelioJet]

10 hours ago, Lith said:

It is not just about one play.  Has been a trend through 4 games.  We have a total of 23 1st quarter passing yards through 4 games.  23 total, not average, but total passing yards.  4 for 15, 23 yards and 2 picks in Q1 through 4 games. 

Week one, it took us 2 1/2 quarters to get going.  Week 2 and 3, we never got going.  Yesterday was one and a half quarters.  We have to get off to better starts if we expectt to play competitive football the rest of the season.

This was the first week he had even a semblance of time inthe pocket.    When the kid has had time he's making throws.  

He's learning under fire and will continue to settle him.  At some point this OL is going to better and give him real time, consistently and watch him tear things up.

Please don't look at stats in a vacuum, it's unfair and I'm sure you know not an accurate depiction of the situation

[Dunnie]

They were daring Wilson to throw the ball in the first half. And lafleur continued running into a stacked line on first and second down. It was only in the second half after hitting some deep passes that the running game got going. 
 
now let’s see if lafleur learns from this or continues with the dunce cap until we’re down 2 scores.

Pass to setup the run ... or run to setup the pass ...

Who would have thunk it ...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Scott Dierking]

10 hours ago, Lith said:

It is not just about one play.  Has been a trend through 4 games.  We have a total of 23 1st quarter passing yards through 4 games.  23 total, not average, but total passing yards.  4 for 15, 23 yards and 2 picks in Q1 through 4 games. 

Week one, it took us 2 1/2 quarters to get going.  Week 2 and 3, we never got going.  Yesterday was one and a half quarters.  We have to get off to better starts if we expectt to play competitive football the rest of the season.

Or is this a good job of making adjustments by the coaching staff? Or, is this a case of a young qb having nerves and needing to assimilate in a game?

These are tough things to arm chair guess at.

[Copernicus]

12 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Zach left wide open receivers all over the field and Davis decided he’d start the game with Stone hands and ice skates. Nothing about the flaws of this week’s game was on LaFleur. The offense left a ton of plays on the field that were there for the taking


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Interesting take. I cant say I totally disagree

[Copernicus]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

What about the plays that Wilson missed (3rd down in the flat, tight end at the 4) that were first reads, that if made, would have won the game where OT was not even needed? 

The stubborn agendas of some (along with the trolling), are just ridiculous here sometimes.

The idea that the OC gets blame on losses and no credit when they win is ridiculously stupid. 

excellent post. I'm not surprised .I think we are asking a lot for La Fluer and Wilson to be on the same page right out the gate. Rookie head coach, Qb, offensive coordinator , multiple rookie starters on both offense and defense is going to take more than a couple of games to be on track. It is no surprise to me that Mac Jones is looking so efficient as compared to the rest of the rookie class. The difference is stability of the same system for over 20 years . Hopefully we get there .

 

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

What about the plays that Wilson missed (3rd down in the flat, tight end at the 4) that were first reads, that if made, would have won the game where OT was not even needed? 

The stubborn agendas of some (along with the trolling), are just ridiculous here sometimes.

The idea that the OC gets blame on losses and no credit when they win is ridiculously stupid. 

Of course.  LeFleur did a fine and he's doing a nice job of ramping up these young and new guys learning this complicated system.  No one can tell me the WR's and OL don't look better.  They look crisper, following assignments - they simply seem to be playing faster.  

This team is getting better, ML does a fine job making half-time adjustments (which in and of itself is a huge upgrade to anything we've had in a very long time) and his play calling has been solid, under the circumstance..  He's in a really tough situation.  We needed to see progress and that's exactly what we saw last week.

Sure he can be better, but under the circumstances, with the talent and youth he has I'm actually rather bullish on him.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, BP said:

They were daring Wilson to throw the ball in the first half. And lafleur continued running into a stacked line on first and second down. It was only in the second half after hitting some deep passes that the running game got going. 
 

now let’s see if lafleur learns from this or continues with the dunce cap until we’re down 2 scores.

Wilson said during the 1st TD drive in the 2nd Quarter, they started to open it up.

[BP]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Wilson said during the 1st TD drive in the 2nd Quarter, they started to open it up.

Right, only after they were down by two scores.

[carlito1171]

14 hours ago, nj meadowlands said:

Anyone else who was at the game notice where LaFleur stands when the Jets have the ball?  He literally stands on the opposite 30 yard line, by himself.  It makes no sense to me.

Saleh needs to just send him up to the booth already. Let Cavanaugh be Zach’s sideline therapist.....

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, BP said:

They were daring Wilson to throw the ball in the first half. And lafleur continued running into a stacked line on first and second down. It was only in the second half after hitting some deep passes that the running game got going. 
 

now let’s see if lafleur learns from this or continues with the dunce cap until we’re down 2 scores.

This is all that really matters in this discussion. Does LaFleur take this and use it to make the offense better? It’s what good coaches do, they learn of the job. 

[GreenFish]

Yes, both should get credit. LaFleur called more roll outs. This allowed Zach to have more time and see the field better.

If we can establish and good running game and Zach can be more consistent with his throws from the pocket, this offense will start cooking. Not sure all this will happen this year but we saw the blueprint.

[sec101row23]

So I got a last minute invite to go the game on Sunday.  Nice day, so I decided to go.  My buddy has seats in section 113 in the coaches club.  So during halftime were out on the patio section behind the Jets bench and stayed there for a few drives of the second half.   So after the Jets first drive of the second half where they went 3 and out and had that 2nd down run play absolutely blown up, the offense comes back the bench and the entire O-line is right in front of us and O-line coach Benton is yelling at the line, specifically AVT and GVR.  This goes on for a minute or two and then little LaFleur comes over and starts yelling at Benton and the O-line for maybe 30 seconds and leaves.  As soon as LaFleur turns his back Benton waves his hand and dismisses LaFleur and says “get the f**k out of here”  Lol…he was clearly not a fan of the play calls during that drive.  Then Feeney comes over and says something and the entire O-line starts cracking up.  Couldn’t tell what he said, but it amused the guys on the O-line.  
 

Anyway, that’s my little tidbit from the sidelines on Sunday.  

[redlichtie]

13 hours ago, kdels62 said:

You’re not wrong but there was progress. Wilson missed 2 passes to win the game that were well schemed. The first drive to score was well called and featured shorter throws. Work in progress but better from LeFleur and much better from Wilson. 

Agree here, I also thought the drive at the end of the 2nd quarter that ended with the Carter TD run showed some promise. Once Zach finally got over the hump and hit CD for that initial first down(what a roar by the crowd btw, it was ironic but definitely energised everyone) then the play calling on that drive was much sharper and we kept them guessing and on their heels…the Berrios reverse etc being case in point…to me that drive showed a glimps of competent play-calling…but it was still just a glimpse.

LaFleur needs to be cut some slack, he’s a rookie too and far too many times in the first 3 weeks the team was ill-disciplined or unprepared (which is only partly on coaching)

so much of this game is about rhythm and momentum and only once you get that does good play-calling get a chance, players have to execute early to get us rolling

all that being said there were way too many vanilla 2nd down run plays that got stuffed at the line or behind thus forcing Zach into 3rd and long. Those plays just seemed way too conservative and telegraphed. LaFleur needs to show he can scheme easy, high percentage plays that get those chunks of yardage early, the great teams don’t take all 3 downs to get a first therefor saving their creative plays for those key moments when you need a 3rd down conversion.

anyway, how nice is it to know we might have a 22 year old QB who can bail out his OC?

[sec101row23]

Getting Cole and Crowder involved was encouraging.  Cole needs to play opposite Davis 75% of the time.  The WR group with Davis, Cole , Crowder is by far their most effective grouping.  Been begging for Cole to get more reps and Sunday showed why he needs to be out there.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Getting Cole and Crowder involved was encouraging.  Cole needs to play opposite Davis 75% of the time.  The WR group with Davis, Cole , Crowder is by far their most effective grouping.  Been begging for Cole to get more reps and Sunday showed why he needs to be out there.  

agree.  crowder is underrated, the offense flowed better with him.  he's still better than moore right now.  i think the coaches fell in love too hard with moore and are too harsh with mims.  davis, crowder and cole should get the most reps, and it would also be nice if they could design some easy hits to the TEs too.  just get easy quick completions, and then fire away deep.

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Getting Cole and Crowder involved was encouraging.  Cole needs to play opposite Davis 75% of the time.  The WR group with Davis, Cole , Crowder is by far their most effective grouping.  Been begging for Cole to get more reps and Sunday showed why he needs to be out there.  

Don’t forget Mims, his blocking was essential. 

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Don’t forget Mims, his blocking was essential. 

Of course, that goes without saying.  I even documented Mims being dressed for the game during Pre-game, not sure if we will see this again.  
 

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Of course, that goes without saying.  I even documented Mims being dressed for the game during Pre-game, not sure if we will see this again.  
 

 

looks good but yeah if moore can go he's inactive again.

[The Crusher]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Of course, that goes without saying.  I even documented Mims being dressed for the game during Pre-game, not sure if we will see this again.  
 

 

I’m hoping he has one of those games at some point were it all clicks for him. Maybe big catch for winnnf  touchdown. I mean honestly? They put him out another game or so and don’t target him then nobody will expect it when they do. “ Shhhhh, Mims the word” Best kept secret I’m the NFL! 

[sec101row23]

18 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

agree.  crowder is underrated, the offense flowed better with him.  he's still better than moore right now.  i think the coaches fell in love too hard with moore and are too harsh with mims.  davis, crowder and cole should get the most reps, and it would also be nice if they could design some easy hits to the TEs too.  just get easy quick completions, and then fire away deep.

It looks like teams are looking to take away the easy stuff right now, I’d actually open up with throwing downfield to loosen up the shorter stuff.  Teams are sitting on the those TEs and RBs.  I’d also love to see Carter on a deeper wheel route, I don’t think they have exploited that enough.