The Parcells Drafts

[AFJF]

Because of a chat in another thread with @T0mShane.  We like to pretend we understand the game well enough to identify a quality player but when the Jets had a HoF head coach making the picks, this is what we got.  

Having 4 firsts in 2000 saves Parcells from Idzik/Mac status.

000	1	Shaun Ellis	12	DE	2011	0	2	11	71	184												1	73.5	Tennessee
2000	1	John Abraham	13	DE	2014	2	5	11	91	192												1	133.5	South Carolina
2000	1	Chad Pennington	18	QB	2010	0	0	5	55	89	1632	2471	17823	102	64	180	465	7	0	7	0			Marshall
2000	1	Anthony Becht	27	TE	2011	0	0	9	12	167									188	1537	21			West Virginia
2000	3	Laveranues Coles	78	WR	2009	0	1	9	68	153						37	231	0	674	8609	49			Florida St.
2000	5	Windrell Hayes	143	WR	2001	0	0	0	1	9						1	2	0	6	126	0			USC
2000	6	Tony Scott	179	DB	2001	0	0	0	2	23												1		North Carolina St.
2000	7	Richard Seals	218	DT		0	0	0																Utah
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1999	2	Randy Thomas	57	G	2009	0	0	9	52	143														Mississippi St.
1999	3	David Loverne	90	G	2004	0	0	2	12	63														San Jose St.
1999	4	Jason Wiltz	123	DT	2000	0	0	0	4	27												2	2.0	Nebraska
1999	5	Jermaine Jones	162	DB	2002	0	0	0	0	3														Northwestern St. (LA)
1999	6	Marc Megna	183	LB	2000	0	0	0	0	6														Richmond
1999	6	J.P. Machado	197	G	2003	0	0	1	11	69														Illinois
1999	7	Ryan Young	223	T	2003	0	0	3	21	67														Kansas St.
1999	7	J.J. Syvrud	235	LB	1999	0	0	0	0	1														Jamestown
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1998	2	Dorian Boose	56	DE	2001	0	0	0	5	44														Washington St.
1998	3	Scott Frost	67	DB	2003	0	0	0	5	59						1	1	0	0	0	0	1	1.0	Nebraska
1998	3	Kevin Williams	87	DB	2002	0	0	0	8	43												1		Oklahoma St.
1998	4	Jason Fabini	111	T	2008	0	0	9	53	152														Cincinnati
1998	5	Casey Dailey	134	LB	1999	0	0	0	0	6														Northwestern
1998	5	Doug Karczewski	141	G		0	0	0																Virginia
1998	5	Blake Spence	146	TE	2000	0	0	0	0	18									4	20	1			Oregon
1998	5	Eric Bateman	149	T		0	0	0																BYU
1998	6	Eric Ogbogu	163	DE	2005	0	0	0	11	90													9.0	Maryland
1998	6	Chris Brazzell	174	WR	2000	0	0	0	1	14									7	126	0			Angelo State (TX)
1998	6	Dustin Johnson	183	FB	1999	0	0	0	0	1														BYU
1998	7	Lawrence Hart	195	TE	2001	0	0	0	0	1														Southern
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1997	1	James Farrior	8	LB	2011	1	2	12	95	230												11	35.5	Virginia
1997	2	Rick Terry	31	DT	1999	0	0	0	4	29													4.0	North Carolina
1997	3	Dedric Ward	88	WR	2004	0	0	1	19	103						12	86	0	167	2307	12			Northern Iowa
1997	4	Terry Day	102	DE	1997	0	0	0	0	1														Mississippi St.
1997	4	Leon Johnson	104	RB	2003	0	0	0	12	74	2	4	45	0	1	217	799	9	46	489	2			North Carolina
1997	5	Lamont Burns	131	G	1997	0	0	0	2	4														East Carolina
1997	5	Raymond Austin	145	DB	1999	0	0	0	3	43														Tennessee
1997	6	Tim Scharf	164	LB		0	0	0																Northwestern
1997	6	Chuck Clements	191	QB	1997	0	0	0	0	1						2	-3	0						Houston
1997	7	Steve Rosga	202	DB		0	0	0																Colorado
1997	7	Jason Ferguson	229	DT	2009	0	0	9	50	159													21.5	Georgia

 

 

 

[AFJF]

JFC...you forget nuggets like this.

Dorain Boose played 34 games, zero starts and never had a sack.  I was sure that dude was gone after year one.  Can't recall him making a single play.

[T0mShane]

What the Jets “got” with Parcells was a man who set up the franchise for a decade of success with a nimrod head coach in Herm Edwards.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Parcells was an AWFUL drafter. Holy sh*t!

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What the Jets “got” with Parcells was a man who set up the franchise for a decade of success with a nimrod head coach in Herm Edwards.

You get many things from all people, Thomas.  This is specifically about how Parcells' drafting impacted the team.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

JFC...you forget nuggets like this.t

Dorain Boose played 34 games, zero starts and never had a sack.  I was sure that dude was gone after year one.  Can't recall him making a single play.

Re Boose.  He showed up in the CFL for the team I cheer for (Edmonton) after failing in the NFL.  He was just outstanding his 1st yr, like a dominant dlineman.  Really really good player, came back year two, out of shape and with problems, got hurt and that was it.  He ended up with real drug or mental problems and died in Edmonton few years ago.

[AFJF]

6 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Parcells was an AWFUL drafter. Holy sh*t!

Yup.  We pretend it's easy, but Bill took multiple guys with premium picks who went on to be special teams guys for a few years before being unemployed.

[AFJF]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Re Boose.  He showed up in the CFL for the team I cheer for (Edmonton) after failing in the NFL.  He was just outstanding his 1st yr, like a dominant dlineman.  Really really good player, came back year two, out of shape and with problems, got hurt and that was it.  He ended up with real drug or mental problems and died in Edmonton few years ago.

Wow, had no idea.  What a wild ride.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

You get many things from all people, Thomas.  This is specifically about how Parcells' drafting impacted the team.

How did it impact the team? How did Parcells’ eeeeevil GMing hurt the football team? Because the team was good when he was here, and it was good for years after he left, same as he did in New England and Dallas. Contrast that with ya boys Mike Maccagnan and Rex Ryan who turned the Jets into the most talent poor franchise in the sport, so much so that it’s going to take a decade to repair the damage.

[T0mShane]

“If you ignore the good players he drafted and acquired, his drafts were terrible” is a superior Jets fan take.

[AFJF]

Two best picks were probably Fabini and Ferguson.

Random Fabini note.  Walking through the parking lot at MetLife a few years back and I notice Fabini in his street clothes (ie, no Jets gear).  Not sure how many fans recognize long-retired O-linemen taking a walk but the look of shock on his face when I was like "Hey, Jason" as I walked past was pretty telling.

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How did it impact the team? How did Parcells’ eeeeevil GMing hurt the football team? Because the team was good when he was here, and it was good for years after he left, same as he did in New England and Dallas. Contrast that with ya boys Mike Maccagnan and Rex Ryan who turned the Jets into the most talent poor franchise in the sport, so much so that it’s going to take a decade to repair the damage.

Ummm...the team had wasted dozens of draft picks on bad football players?  This is generally viewed as being bad, no?

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

“If you ignore the good players he drafted and acquired, his drafts were terrible” is a superior Jets fan take.

Except nobody said to ignore anything?

[T0mShane]

For reference, here are The Great Ozzie Newsome drafts from those same years. You’ll note that The Great Ozzie Newsome was picking in the Top Ten in each of those years, despite being The Great Ozzie Newsome.

 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Ummm...the team had wasted dozens of draft picks on bad football players?  This is generally viewed as being bad, no?

I would say that a large percentage of draft picks made by every GM in history would be viewed as “wasted” if you believe that every draft pick those GMs make should be long-term NFL contributors. 

[Barton]

Jets fans like to act like their GMs are always the worst at drafting but in general every team kinda sucks at drafting. Every team has huge swings and misses. 

[Rob Moore]

While Eric Ogbogu was a good role player for us, I think he had a more successful post playing career….

 

[Anthony Jet]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For reference, here are The Great Ozzie Newsome drafts from those same years. You’ll note that The Great Ozzie Newsome was picking in the Top Ten in each of those years, despite being The Great Ozzie Newsome.

 

If it’s any consolation your chart is legible on a phone compared to the OPs

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

If it’s any consolation your chart is legible on a phone compared to the OPs

Sorry...I am to posting charts what Bill Parcells was to drafting football players.

[Peace Frog]

My problem with Parcells was his penchant for trading back premium picks and semi-premium picks (Rounds 1-3 and Round 4) then trading back and back again for extra crap picks in Rounds 5-6-7.

Netted us Marc Megan, JP Machado, Ryan Young, JJ Syvrud (wtf?), Casey Dailey, Doug Karczewski, Blake Spence, Eric Bateman, Eric Obogu (but he did well in commercials), Chris Brazzell, Dustin Johnson, Lawrence Hart, Tim Scharf (who?), Steve Rosga (lol). 

The only late round pick that worked out for him was Jason Ferguson but he  should have been a much higher pick but he was on the pot. 

Great coach, changed the culture. Crappy GM. 

[AFJF]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For reference, here are The Great Ozzie Newsome drafts from those same years. You’ll note that The Great Ozzie Newsome was picking in the Top Ten in each of those years, despite being The Great Ozzie Newsome.

 

Ozzie is another great example as to how hard it is to find a QB.  His SB winning QB was the 10th one he drafted.

 

Imagine letting a GM draft 10 QBs today.  We want guys fired after the first one they take has a rough few weeks.

[Scott Dierking]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I would say that a large percentage of draft picks made by every GM in history would be viewed as “wasted” if you believe that every draft pick those GMs make should be long-term NFL contributors. 

Attention Tom Shane Shoppers, you are wanted in the "Fire Joe Douglas" thread.

[undertow]

Somewhere along the line people have convinced themselves that you are supposed to draft 5 starters a year....Parcells had one great draft, 2 bad, and one ok.  So now we are saying Parcells was bad at building teams? lol

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Ozzie is another great example as to how hard it is to find a QB.  His SB winning QB was the 10th one he drafted.

 

Imagine letting a GM draft 10 QBs today.  We want guys fired after the first one they take has a rough few weeks.

 

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Attention Tom Shane Shoppers, you are wanted in the "Fire Joe Douglas" thread.

You have to admit, SAR is playing an excellent game of chess/rope-a-dope in that thread. ?

[peebag]

No one could cook a meal with those groceries.

[freestater]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For reference, here are The Great Ozzie Newsome drafts from those same years. You’ll note that The Great Ozzie Newsome was picking in the Top Ten in each of those years, despite being The Great Ozzie Newsome.

 

I don't know how anybody else reads this, but I'm pretty sure you just said @Pac is right and Macc was good. 

[Matt39]

Should have held onto Farrior and Randy Thomas. Never should have let Coles leave either. Leon Johnson was a hell of a 3rd down/special teams guy before he tore his knee to shreds.

[CanadaSteve]

1999 I don't blame him....when you look at our picks, they kinda fall in line with the rest of that draft....it wasn't a good one.  But 1998 and Dorian Boose and Scott Frost going in front of Jeremiah Trotter, Brian Griese and Hines Ward.  And that draft in 1997.  WOW.  Imagine our offense then with Tony Gonzalez as the TE. 

[HawkeyeJet]

40 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For reference, here are The Great Ozzie Newsome drafts from those same years. You’ll note that The Great Ozzie Newsome was picking in the Top Ten in each of those years, despite being The Great Ozzie Newsome.

 

This is an incredibly interesting post to me and might start me down a research path on something I’ve wanted to look into for awhile.

I believe, but haven’t researched yet, that a good portion of GMs who are considered “the greats” either historically or currently have far more stinkers for drafts than acknowledged.  I think fans assume the really good GMS are building teams through great draft year after year with, but I think most modern NFL juggernauts are built off of a singular great draft, then smart FA signings and a few hits in future draft.

This Newsome snapshot makes me think it might be true.  I looked at some Ballard drafts because he is considered a top flight GM, but lots of junk from him too.

[Adoni Beast]

The Parcells haters make me laugh and cringe.

• He was hired to win NOW

• Almost won it all 2 years after a 1-15 record team he inherited.

• Tried setting up the franchise with Bill Belichick as the HC, Charlie Weiss as the OC, Romeo Crennel as the DC, a 1st round QB of the future, and two 1st round pass rushers.

Whatever went wrong with the exit strategy is debatable but he was clearly trying to win a Lombardy and leave a long term franchise of success behind.

The hate is odd considering all of that.

[Klecko73isGod]

3 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Parcells haters make me laugh and cringe.

• He was hired to win NOW

• Almost won it all 2 years after a 1-15 record team he inherited.

• Tried setting up the franchise with Bill Belichick as the HC, Charlie Weiss as the OC, Romeo Crennel as the DC, a 1st round QB of the future, and two 1st round pass rushers.

Whatever went wrong with the exit strategy is debatable but he was clearly trying to win a Lombardy and leave a long term franchise of success behind.

The hate is odd considering all of that.

He totally botched the 99 season by not having a serviceable backup to start the year.

He totally botched the handoff to Belichick and left us in cap hell.

Rex Ryan was better for the Jets than Bill Parcells.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This is an incredibly interesting post to me and might start me down a research path on something I’ve wanted to look into for awhile.

I believe, but haven’t researched yet, that a good portion of GMs who are considered “the greats” either historically or currently have far more stinkers for drafts than acknowledged.  I think fans assume the really good GMS are building teams through great draft year after year with, but I think most modern NFL juggernauts are built off of a singular great draft, then smart FA signings and a few hits in future draft.

This Newsome snapshot makes me think it might be true.  I looked at some Ballard drafts because he is considered a top flight GM, but lots of junk from him too.

What you learn when you read up on a lot of these “great” GMs is that they are all obsessed with “culture” and guys who fit in the locker room, which leads them to make some weird picks along the way where they ignore an exponentially more talented player who profiles as an a-hole. Super Bowls are rarely won by the team with the most pure talent. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

He totally botched the 99 season by not having a serviceable backup to start the year.

He totally botched the handoff to Belichick and left us in cap hell.

Rex Ryan was better for the Jets than Bill Parcells.

BAN THIS TROLL

[Jetsfan80]

At least Parcells never invited Manish on a podcast.  

And yes, Glenn, to answer your question, I’m doing fine and already see a therapist.  

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Jets fans like to act like their GMs are always the worst at drafting but in general every team kinda sucks at drafting. Every team has huge swings and misses. 

Which is why a strategy that focuses on building through the draft is so risky