Zach’s “breakout” game

[slimjasi]

Just now, Warfish said:

You don’t think the QB and system we’re having patience with doesn’t have an effect on the WR? Or his injuries?

Sure 

and I don’t think Davis is a “bust” here or anything like that. And like Wilson, he will be here next year.

but he has had a number of bad drops this year (and a couple of fumbles) that have disappointed me. 
 

the good news is that he never really had a drop issue before this year and also had some nice moments with Wilson earlier in the year, so there is still plenty of hope.

but my larger point was that it makes sense to be more patient with a guy who has played 7 games than you would be with a 5 year vet who just got a big contract.  

[jgb]

Just now, slimjasi said:

the good news is that he never really had a drop issue before this year

Correlation or causation?

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Correlation or causation?

Causation because he’s a jet now 

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Breakout is a stretch but hands down by far the best he's looked at any point this entire season was in the first half of this game.  Night and day difference from everything we've seen since week 1.  He was poised, calm, under control.  His footwork was flawless, he was making great reads and being the most decisive I've seen him by far this season.   His ball placement leaves a lot be desired but baby steps, he was by far the best he's looked to date.

That said, the tale of two halves was drastic.  Right back to sloppy footwork, bad mechanics, bailing on pockets and fluttering balls.  Got to get consistent but at least we saw a half of encouraging Football.  Huge change from the norm. 

Do you think that some of the inaccuracy was a result of the "see it and rip it" mentality he had in the games? Rocket balls were not really his thing in college, he used a lot of different speeds and touch. I think that comes back as he develops

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

There was another swing pass to Moore that he hit him perfectly in stride 

Well that's what he should be doing almost all of the time.  

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Actually not really , Jones is a system QB with physical limitations. It just happens that he's a great system for his skillset. 

Wilson has all the tools to become a great QB , he just needs to evolve with more reps. 

People were gushing over White's play vs. the Bengals which, was very "Jones-like".  If Wilson carved up the Eagles in a similar fashion, we'd be raving about it.  Prove me wrong...

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Well that's what he should be doing almost all of the time.  

Lol, right? One example of him completing a high percentage pass, "See?!!"

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

People were gushing over White's play vs. the Bengals which, was very "Jones-like".  If Wilson carved up the Eagles in a similar fashion, we'd be raving about it.  Prove me wrong...

Contrary to the dink and dunk narrative, Jones has a higher YPA than Mahomes or Brady, a higher Intended Air Yards Per Attempt than Herbert and a higher Completed Air Yards Per Completion than Aaron Rodgers. All while being supported by less YAC Per Completion than all of them -- which may have something to do with Mac Jones' top 2 receivers being UDFAs (no weaponinz!!).

DISCLAIMER: This was as of last week. Too lazy to update.

 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

That's because he has the other tools that Mac Jones doesn't have and can never.

If ZW can play the short game like Mac Jones or close to his level - then he's a top 5 NFL QB.

Whether he does that or not is still a big question.

Zach’s long game sucks too, though

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Without googling it, name one of Mac Jones’ top three receivers.

Troy Brown

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I can go around the NFL for just about every QB every week and find a throws like thatt, high throws etc.  Heck, Pat Mahomes had like 3 or 4 of them last night.

I'm not saying he doesn't need to get better...He absolutely does..I'm not even saying his ball placement has been good.  It hasn't.

But throws like that happen to all of them - just far too many for Zach right now.  He's getting better.  He's still rushing and his footwork isn't where it needs to be - he'll get there.

When Zach wins NFL MVP (or a Superbowl) then I'll be happy to overlook these types of throws.  

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach’s long game sucks too, though

He hands the ball off flawlessly though.

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach’s long game sucks too, though

[56mehl56]

10 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

People were gushing over White's play vs. the Bengals which, was very "Jones-like".  If Wilson carved up the Eagles in a similar fashion, we'd be raving about it.  Prove me wrong...

No arguments , Jones has played very well within that system.  The WCO or the Shanahan/Lafleur version of it has many similar components to the McDaniels/NE system. So yes against Cincy , White did look very Jones like. They want Wilson to move in that direction also for now. When he gets comfortable with quick reads and getting efficient in the short passing game , his physical tool set will hopefully allow the Jets something NE doesn't have in Jones and that is superior arm strength/talent.  Wilson was trying to fly before walking , if he learns to walk the sky is the limit. 

[flgreen]

ANALYTICS

Zach Wilson made enormous progress vs. Eagles in 3 key areas

Zach Wilson took big steps forward against Philadelphia Eagles, as evidenced by his progression in three important areas.

By

 Michael Nania

 -

 12/06/2021

Zach Wilson, New York Jets, Getty Images

Zach Wilson continues trending upward with solid outing vs. Eagles

Despite lackluster box-score stats, New York Jets quarterback Zach Wilson took steps forward in important areas during his return start against the Houston Texans, putting together an underrated outing that featured tangible progress.

Wilson continued his upward trajectory with another promising start against the Philadelphia Eagles.

The rookie quarterback continues to show sizable improvement in areas that were his primary weaknesses prior to his four-game absence.

 

1. Overall accuracy

 

Wilson’s accuracy was far from perfect against Philly, as even some of his completions were imperfect balls that required a strong effort from the receiver. There is still a long way for him to go in this area.

Regardless, Wilson made some strides. He had his sharpest day yet from an overall accuracy standpoint.

Wilson officially completed 23 of his 38 pass attempts (60.5%), but five of his incompletions were charted as drops while two were throwaways. Taking those things into account, his adjusted completion percentage was a sterling 77.8%, which is a new career high. His previous best was 73.5%, set in his NFL debut against the Carolina Panthers.

Particularly, Wilson did a much better job at the easy stuff, which has been his weakness this year.

Wilson posted an adjusted completion percentage of 84.6% on short throws (0-9 yards downfield), ranking as his second-best mark of the year following his 87.5% mark against Carolina. That is a solid number for Wilson to shoot for going forward. It is slightly above the current league median out of 34 qualifiers (82.8%) and would sandwich between the current 12th and 13th-ranked short passers.

Wilson’s 75.0% adjusted completion percentage on intermediate throws (10-19 yards downfield) sets a new career high, beating out his 71.4% against Carolina. He went 7-for-12 with two drops. That is a tremendous output. The current median mark among qualifiers is 61.7%, and a 75.0% mark would slide between second-ranked Kirk Cousins and third-ranked Kyler Murray.

To boot, Wilson completed all six of his passes behind the line of scrimmage. That minuscule accomplishment won’t get him a statue built anytime soon, but it’s a step forward considering he threw four inaccuracy-based incompletions behind the line of scrimmage over his first seven starts. Perfection is the goal on passes behind the line.

It may be difficult for Wilson to drastically improve his accuracy in-season – perhaps the leap will not occur until he gets an entire offseason to refine his mechanics and hammer them down over months of practice – but it’s great to see him figuring out ways to stabilize things for the time being.

 

2. Time holding the football

 

Wilson is clearly putting an emphasis on applying the lessons that he learned from watching the offense succeed during his four-game absence. He is making quicker decisions, seeing things better pre-snap, and taking more checkdowns when they are the best option available.

Exemplifying all of these improvements is the average amount of time that Wilson is holding the ball.

Wilson held the ball for an average of 2.66 seconds against Philadelphia, a new career low.

His previous career low? That would be the nearly identical 2.68-second mark that he posted against Houston the previous week.

These last two starts have been a massive step forward for Wilson when it comes to getting the football out on time. Through Week 7, Wilson was holding the ball for a whopping 3.10 seconds, ranking second-highest among all quarterbacks behind only Lamar Jackson.

That was much too long for Wilson considering where he is currently at as a quarterback. The high-2.6 range is a great place for Wilson to be. It’s a perfectly middle-of-the-pack number – right now, 2.68 seconds is dead-even with the league median out of 32 qualifiers.

We do not want Wilson to hold the ball too long, as that likely means he is passing up on easy throws and creating sack opportunities that do not need to happen. But we also do not want his release time to be too low. That would mean his deep passing and off-schedule abilities are not being unleashed.

By settling into a middle ground, Wilson is striking a healthy balance of aggression and caution. He is improvising and taking shots when the time is right, but he is primarily focusing on working within the offense.

 

3. Keeping the offense moving

 

There were no game-breaking plays from the Jets’ offense in this game, but the unit moved the ball efficiently on most of its drives. It was the most fluid and consistent that the offense ever looked under Wilson’s leadership, and that is exemplified by his career-best total of conversions thrown.

Wilson tossed two touchdowns and 13 first downs against Philadelphia. His total of 15 conversions is a new career high, significantly beating out his previous best of 11 against Tennessee.

Wilson averaged only 8.8 conversions per game over his first six fully-played starts. To toss 15 in one contest is a huge step forward for him.

This stat is why Robert Saleh called this game “by far (Wilson’s) best game in terms of just working progression and playing within the scheme.” Sure, he hit a handful of explosive plays against Tennessee, but he was not as solid when it came to commanding the offense and moving the chains. The Eagles game was Wilson’s first performance in which he showed he could consistently move the ball.

Jets fans should be ecstatic with the steps that Wilson is taking.

It’s not as if Wilson is just making some flashy plays with his raw talent while crucial issues persist. Rather, he is improving in the fundamental areas where proficiency is absolutely necessary for a quarterback to achieve sustained long-term success. Even more impressively, it appears he has placed a concerted focus on fixing those weaknesses, showcasing the self-evaluation ability that is integral to long-term development.

Wilson is slowly mastering the “boring” aspects of quarterbacking. Once he completes this mission, then his physical gifts can put him over the top.

Audio Version available to members only. Learn more here.

[JustInFudge]

20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Do you think that some of the inaccuracy was a result of the "see it and rip it" mentality he had in the games? Rocket balls were not really his thing in college, he used a lot of different speeds and touch. I think that comes back as he develops

No because that was his 2nd best game in terms of completion percentage, so I think that mentality helped him, especially when they had a rhythm in the first half.  I think he's just not very accurate.  Not to rehash our preseason debates but he struggled with ball placement in college but got away with it because of level competition.  Just part of the game you hope he develops.  I think a continued focused on his footwork and fundamentals will help his accuracy.  IMO all his issues start with this footwork and drop backs.  They're such a mess and so inconsistent that it throws the timing off and I think also throws off the type of ball he can throw.  When you're late on everything, you kind of have to throw a rocket ball for it to get to the receiver. 

 

 

 

[Barton]

He looked better. Lets be happy about it.

Kid needs a legit #1 WR or star tight end though. Davis is a #2 at best and his hands are not reliable. Might just be a good #3.

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 Mike White would have gotten CJ Mosley to run faster on defense also. 

[flgreen]

OFF TOPIC, NO PLACE ELSE TO PUT IT.   

 

Snap Count Analysis

Snap Count Analysis | Which Jets Played the Most Snaps in Loss to Eagles?

Five on Offense; Four on Defense Logged Most Playing Time

Dec 06, 2021 at 11:00 AM

 

Ethan Greenberg

Team Reporter

The Jets (3-9) lost to the Eagles, 33-18, at MetLife Stadium on Sunday. Here's a look at the snap count and how playing time was distributed.

OFFENSE
Five Jets played all 59 snaps on offense – QB Zach Wilson, LT George Fant, LG Alijah Vera-Tucker, C Connor McGovern and RT Morgan Moses. RG Laurent Duvernay-Tardif took 33 snaps (56%) before sustaining an ankle injury. Greg Van Roten, who started the first nine games of the season at right guard, took the remaining 26 (44%). Dan Feeney checked in as an eligible lineman on 5 plays (8%).

WR Elijah Moore 51 (86%) was the only other player to take more than 50 snaps. He led the offense with 6 catches, 77 yards and he also scored his fifth touchdown in as many games. Jamison Crowder 46 (78%) was next, followed by Corey Davis 25 (42%), who re-aggravated his groin injury; Denzel Mims 21 (36%); Braxton Berrios 19 (32%); and Jeff Smith 15 (25%).

Ty Johnson 28 (47%) led the running backs even though Tevin Coleman 23 (39%) led the group with 11 rushes and 58 yards. Austin Walter 8 (14%) rounded out the unit and FB Nick Bawden appeared in 6 plays (10%). 

Ryan Griffin 32 (54%) once again led the tight ends and scored his first touchdown of the season. Rookie Kenny Yeboah 14 (24%) saw his first action on offense in his fifth NFL game -- he's been limited to special-teams snaps until Sunday. Dan Brown took 2 snaps (3%) in his first game back with the Green & White after joining the practice squad on Nov. 3

DEFENSE
Four Green & White defenders took all 71 snaps – LB C.J. Mosley, S Ashtyn Davis, and CBs Bryce Hall and Javelin Guidry. LB Quincy Williams 68 (96%), who tied with Mosley for a team-leading 13 tackles, and former Eagles S Elijah Riley 63 (89%) were the only other players to take more than 60 snaps. Riley had the team's only sack of the day, which was his first in the NFL.

Michael Carter II 40 (56%) started at nickel but sustained a head injury and fellow rookie Isaiah Dunn 28 (39%) took the remaining snaps, with Guidry shifting inside to nickel. Sharrod Neasman and Jason Pinnock rounded out the secondary with 4 snaps each (6%). 

Other than Mosley and Williams, Jarrad Davis 6 (8%) was the only other linebacker to take snaps on defense.

Quinnen Williams 49 (69%) led the defensive line, followed by John Franklin-Myers 45 (63%). Folorunso Fatukasi and Shaq Lawson each took 42 snaps (59%). Ronnie Blair 32 (45%) was next, followed by Kyle Phillips 31 (44%), Nathan Shepherd 24 (34%) and rookie Jonathan Marshall 19 (27%).

 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

 

Defending Zack means trashing the OL, weapoinz, coaches, OC, training staff, JD, ownership. But we're the sad sack pessimistic losers, right?

See above.

It doesn't mean doing any of that. Why can't he just be a rookie QB who has played 7.5 games and needs time to develop? 

[Grandy]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach’s long game sucks too, though

Interestingly enough, I saw a chart up to last game about this. Even though his overall accuracy blows, he was actually graded as the 4th most accurate deep thrower in the NFL.

[Irish Jet]

There were not 5 drops. At all.

They're actually including those throws where he wildly missed Moore but Moore managed to get a hand on it, including that one in the end zone.

?

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

There were not 5 drops. At all.

Easily 6.  They weren't all perfect throws - but NFL drops for sure.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

I mean he had 3 TDs yesterday, Trevor Lawrence has 3 TDs in the last 8 weeks. Zach played very well

Funny how facts put things into perspective

[65 Toss Power Trap]

4 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

We are now rooting for Wilson to become Mac Jones...

What's interesting is, Zac can definitely work on things that Mac Jones (or other QBs) do well. Like any of us. But Mac can't work on "superior arm talent." 

[Darnold's Forehead]

13 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Interestingly enough, I saw a chart up to last game about this. Even though his overall accuracy blows, he was actually graded as the 4th most accurate deep thrower in the NFL.

I think Zach’s deep ball can be accurate when he wants it to/when he focuses, but half the time he just launches it downfield like a chicken with his head cut off after narrowly escaping pressure.

[jgb]

18 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

It doesn't mean doing any of that. Why can't he just be a rookie QB who has played 7.5 games and needs time to develop? 

He can. And why can't we just be fans with an opinion?

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

What's interesting is, Zac can definitely work on things that Mac Jones (or other QBs) do well. Like any of us. But Mac can't work on "superior arm talent." 

Au contraire.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

4 hours ago, Gen X Jet said:

Give the kid a true #1 to pair with Moore and let's see how he does.  Stone Hands Corey Davis is probably the worst thing for a rookie QB.  A confidence killer.

And give the kid, at least, an average defense.

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

There were not 5 drops. At all.

They're actually including those throws where he wildly missed Moore but Moore managed to get a hand on it, including that one in the end zone.

?

Did you watch a different game? Moore's drop is at the  3:31 mark and was a critical play in the game (it was the play before the interception). Moore makes that catch, we are set up with 1st and 10 inside the 25 yard line and have a legit chance to cut it to a one score game. Please explain how Wilson "wildly missed" Moore on this throw. It hit him in the hands (not "hand"). Also, the one in the endzone also hit him in the hands (not "hand") - the announcers pointed out that Moore probably lost it in the sun. 

I get that you have some weird vendetta against the rookie QB, but you aren't being objective at all. 

 

 

[Smashmouth]

5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

great to see him make such a huge leap yesterday, let’s see him finish this season on a high note ??

That was a break out game ? He played good in the first half terrible in the second half when he could have kept us in the game he folded. The only reason I gave him a "good" grade in the first half and not a great one was because receivers still have to adjust to catch his passes taking them out of their stride therefore losing yards in the process. he has to become more accurate or this offense will continue to suffer with him at the helm. Part of that is that he never throws the ball with any touch at all everything seems to have too much zip on it and in the short passing game that's not giving the receiver time to adjust hence a few drops. 

[BallinPB]

4 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

I mean he had 3 TDs yesterday, Trevor Lawrence has 3 TDs in the last 8 weeks. Zach played very well

 

Just now, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Funny how facts put things into perspective

Trevor Lawrence is playing like crap.  We don't need to compare the two just because they are the #1 and #2 pick.  They both suck right now.  

[ScarletKnight89]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

He can. And why can't we just be fans with an opinion?

You can. But i'm not blaming the entire organization for ZW's struggles. 

[jgb]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

You can. But i'm not blaming the entire organization for ZW's struggles. 

100 internet points. I'll add you to the "do not purge" list.

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Did you watch a different game? Moore's drop is at the  3:31 mark and was a critical play in the game (it was the play before the interception). Moore makes that catch, we are set up with 1st and 10 inside the 25 yard line and have a legit chance to cut it to a one score game. Please explain how Wilson "wildly missed" Moore on this throw. It hit him in the hands (not "hand"). Also, the one in the endzone also hit him in the hands (not "hand") - the announcers pointed out that Moore probably lost it in the sun. 

I get that you have some weird vendetta against the rookie QB, but you aren't be objective at all. 

 

 

Did you see Moore totally stretched out trying to make that catch ? That's hardly accurate and those type of catches are pretty rare trying to make a diving catch on a ball thrown 4 feet off the mark.