One day the Braxton Berrios type of player will not be on this team

[y2k8]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah, I wouldn't really count Hill since he's one of the game's best WR's who also happens to be an excellent returner as well.  Gotta be thought of as a KR/PR first to be memorable in that sense.  

Yeah, I can't remember that Raven either!  

He returned 2 punts for TDs in that disasterous Christmas eve game that we lost by 14. I believe he also returned a KO for a TD in the SB. He was huge for them considering how bad the offense was.

Lewis was his last name. Still can't get to his first.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Outside of Tyreek Hill? 

The guy on the Ravens 2000 SB team. Forget his name.

 

Jermaine Lewis. 

[Hex]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah, I wouldn't really count Hill since he's one of the game's best WR's who also happens to be an excellent returner as well.  Gotta be thought of as a KR/PR first to be memorable in that sense.  

Yeah, I can't remember that Raven either!  

Brandon Stokely?

Edit: Nevermind, I don't think that's right

[#27TheDominator]

Bunch of special teams TDs in the super bowl.  Harvin, Tim Dwight.  Jacoby Jones.  Ron Dixon scored one for the Giants in 2000 right before Lewis.  I think they were back to back.

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't necessarily have a problem with other grown men wearing jerseys, its just folks who wear jerseys tend to be much more likely to be a toolbag/jerk than the average population, lol.  And I don't just mean that they're jerks when drunk in a stadium.  Negative experiences with folks in jerseys made me not want to wear a jersey ever again.  

In short, the jerkoffs ruined it for me, otherwise I'd still probably rock a jersey from time to time when I felt like it.  

Sorry to hear that, although I'd suggest it wasn't the Jersey that made the Toolbag, but just Toolbags being Toolbags. 

Sadly, the world it far too full of them, especially at sporting events.  Drunk and/or violent people.

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Berrios as kickoff returner:

2nd in average for returners with 10 or more returns - 28.9

10th in total yards - 520

Berrios as punt returner:

5th in average for punt returns - 13.6 (9 returns)

3rd in fair catches - 18

Zero fumbles

Is Berrios the TOP returner? No, but he is ONE of the top returners. He is better at kickoff returns than punt returns. His combined numbers as a kick and punt returner still leaves him in the top 15, which makes him a top returner in the league. 

I don't see a single person agreeing with you about Berrios, so let's agree that none of us agree with you and move on.

Hahaha well that is very true some disagree. At least you admit he is not the best as others have said but again more yards that other just because you got to do more returns does not make you better. But sure agree to disagree!

[BornJetsFan1983]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Go look at his stats. His punt return and KO return averages are at the near top.

https://www.google.com/search?q=punt+return+average+2021&oq=punt+return+ave&aqs=chrome.2.0i512j69i57j0i512l2j0i22i30l5.12921j0j7&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/kickoff-returns/2021/REG/all/kickreturnsaverageyards/desc

I'm going to add this. On a team with not a lot of talent, complaining about a guy that is ranking not in the top 10 as I said but the top 5 for what we actually acquired him for is about silliest thing I have seen on this site, and that is quite a statement 

You do understand that I was just saying it will be nice when we have a talented roster and guys like berries will be on the practice squad where they belong..

For someone calling me low IQ in another thread it certainly seems like you didn't even understand the very first post.

[BornJetsFan1983]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Hes top 5 in both KR and PR.  Leads the league in KR Yardage I believe.  

Thinking the roster will be better the day we dont have Berrios on it is where you went wrong.  Its any number of scrubs but hes not one of them

 

Maybe I am wrong on this but he has more yard because he has more returns not that he has done great with them just volumn?? Right? So the idea he just has more yards doesn't really make me think he is good. You seen him return for us right? He look average at best. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Hahaha well that is very true some disagree. At least you admit he is not the best as others have said but again more yards that other just because you got to do more returns does not make you better. But sure agree to disagree!

Most, if not all disagree with you. Make a list of the people who agree, and then I'll give you the list of people who disagree. We'll see whose list is bigger. 

I never said that more returns was better. Having the fifth best average for returns makes my point stronger, and yours weaker. Having a higher average with more returns than all but four other returners makes Berrios look even better now. Thank you for bringing up that up.

The longer this goes on, the deeper the hole gets. I am amazed how you chose to die on this hill when there is a much better hill (like JD not securing a kicker) to die on. 

[ZachEY]

The irony of this whole thing is that Elijah Moore is probably the only WR currently on the roster who will be around longer than Braxton Berrios.

[More Cowbell]

27 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

You do understand that I was just saying it will be nice when we have a talented roster and guys like berries will be on the practice squad where they belong..

For someone calling me low IQ in another thread it certainly seems like you didn't even understand the very first post.

OMG, are you really this obtuse. The guy ranks in top 5 at an important position. Why in Gods name would you put him on the practice squad? I mean a returner only sets up where your offenses  field position starts each time they get the ball. We don't  need a top 5 guy at that. Let our O start at the 20 or deeper and drive 80 yards or more each possession.  

And yes, if you think a top 5 return man should be on your practice squad and not the active roster, you do have a low football IQ. 

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Maybe I am wrong on this but he has more yard because he has more returns not that he has done great with them just volumn?? Right? So the idea he just has more yards doesn't really make me think he is good. You seen him return for us right? He look average at best. 

No, its not a padded stat, its he is that good.  He leads in yardage and average.  Leading the league makes you better than average.  You're wrong with this one

 

Kickoff Returns

Player	Avg	Yds
Braxton Berrios	28.9	520
Tony Pollard	28.8	489
Alex Erickson	28.5	57
Tevin Coleman	28.4	227

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

58 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Maybe I am wrong on this but he has more yard because he has more returns not that he has done great with them just volumn?? Right? So the idea he just has more yards doesn't really make me think he is good. You seen him return for us right? He look average at best. 

How many more times do people have to post his stats before you finally admit that you are wrong about Berrios? Your argument is that he "look average at best." There isn't a stat for looking good, but there are stats that prove that Berrios is in the top tier of kickoff returners. How could you possibly continue to spin this before you give up? Are you trolling?

[JetBlue]

6 hours ago, munchmemory said:

JAGS?  Those are the best kick returners we ever had. 

And light years better than Berrios. Not even a question. 

[rtnelson]

We have one stupid thread about Berrios and suddenly Saleh, Lafleur, and Zach are all asked about him in their presser.  Do these beat guys read JN for question material or what?

[phill1c]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:23 PM, BornJetsFan1983 said:

because he is bargain bin player we took to learn the game plan for the Patriots a number of years ago.

that's not a reason why he's not a good WR. I mean, Wayne Chrebet was a bargain bin player a walk-on from Hofstra,, and he is inarguably the best 3rd-down receiver in Jets history.

There's no logic to your opinions on Berrios. It sounds like you're just searching for reasons why this guy, who is definitely among the best performing 2021 Jets, is somehow not worthy of being on the Jets,

 

Berrios is what he is. And not getting better. He has been given the opportunity and does little with it. He is about 250 yards so far so we will see what he is at the end of the year. But the thing is with his opportunities he should be doing better. But drops, not getting open etc.

Yes, he is. He's one of the best contributors in his role.

"done little with it..." 

I mean, when he was starting, these Berrios haters were complaining he was getting too much work. Now, the Berrios Hate Crew is saying he's "done little with it..."?? Obviously forgetting last game's return. And the game before's electrifying catch and run. You Hate mongers latch onto people and say the stupidest, most foul things, as if that's acceptable or decent. He's a part-time player doing as much or more than many full-time players.

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

that's not a reason why he's not a good WR. I mean, Wayne Chrebet was a bargain bin player a walk-on from Hofstra,, and he is inarguably the best 3rd-down receiver in Jets history.

There's no logic to your opinions on Berrios. It sounds like you're just searching for reasons why this guy, who is definitely among the best performing 2021 Jets, is somehow not worthy of being on the Jets,

 

Berrios is what he is. And not getting better. He has been given the opportunity and does little with it. He is about 250 yards so far so we will see what he is at the end of the year. But the thing is with his opportunities he should be doing better. But drops, not getting open etc.

Yes, he is. He's one of the best contributors in his role.

"done little with it..." 

I mean, when he was starting, these Berrios haters were complaining he was getting too much work. Now, the Berrios Hate Crew is saying he's "done little with it..."?? Obviously forgetting last game's return. And the game before's electrifying catch and run. You Hate mongers latch onto people and say the stupidest, most foul things, as if that's acceptable or decent. He's a part-time player doing as much or more than many full-time players.

I don't understand your argument. I'm not sure what you're talking about chrebet was awesome. Berrios is not as good of a player as he was. So...idk what you're talking about, read any number of my responses I lay out my arguments very slowly and direct.

Berries is not a very good NFL wr. When we have a better roster it will be good to have a guy in that spot that could potentially be much better and higher on the depth chart with some time.. (this means say a rookie or udfa that works he way ok the team and becomes a wr 2 or 3 etc). Verse what we have now a practice squad guy that has his role.

I honestly didn't think so many people loved this kid so much. Its shocking how many of you are bothered by me just calling it what it is. He is not that good of a player and it will be nice when he is gone and replaced with someone more talented.

The End 

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

How many more times do people have to post his stats before you finally admit that you are wrong about Berrios? Your argument is that he "look average at best." There isn't a stat for looking good, but there are stats that prove that Berrios is in the top tier of kickoff returners. How could you possibly continue to spin this before you give up? Are you trolling?

I'm not trying to. I just think cause he had more chances at returning the ball and there for more yards all together is a deceiving stat. You seem him return your telling me he is Great? That is not true. Alot of teams score on us so we get to return kicks a lot. 

I mean other than one play that a better player would have had a TD on , he has not done well as a return man and made silly mistakes like letting the ball roll bye him to be downed on the 1 yard line. Never makes guy misses etc. That is not good or ever average.

Honestly I was thinking you were trolling me with this make believe land he is a good player stuff. We have seen him at a starting WR - failed with drops and still can't get open or seperation. So not a good wr. 

As Return man does nothing special. So yeah not a fan and looking forward to him being replaced.

Mostly people on the thread are trying to tell me he is a role player- sure yeah that doesn't go against anything I have said.

And it will be nice when he is replaced by someone better. Our return guy should be Elijah more type ...the rookie we just drafted that is trying to crack the starting line up. That idea is only controversial when you are a grumpy old jets fan on a message board being so used to garbage play you think it's acceptable.

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No, its not a padded stat, its he is that good.  He leads in yardage and average.  Leading the league makes you better than average.  You're wrong with this one

 

Kickoff Returns

Player	Avg	Yds
Braxton Berrios	28.9	520
Tony Pollard	28.8	489
Alex Erickson	28.5	57
Tevin Coleman	28.4	227

See here is the think that doesn't make sense when you look at him make returns. I mean. I think I want to see the actual plays because I'm talking about talent and him not doing the most with his opportunities...you make the case he put performs everyone but when you watch him play he doesn't make guy miss and we have seen him be terrible. How much of this is just deep kicks and being untouched for a few yards...maybe you're right... I'ma look and see if I can see some plays of him returning the ball. I have never once seen him make some.special play....I thought it was just cumulative yard that gave him the big run. Hmmm .. I look to see what I can find.

 

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

See here is the think that doesn't make sense when you look at him make returns. I mean. I think I want to see the actual plays because I'm talking about talent and him not doing the most with his opportunities...you make the case he put performs everyone but when you watch him play he doesn't make guy miss and we have seen him be terrible. How much of this is just deep kicks and being untouched for a few yards...maybe you're right... I'ma look and see if I can see some plays of him returning the ball. I have never once seen him make some.special play....I thought it was just cumulative yard that gave him the big run. Hmmm .. I look to see what I can find.

 

He had an 80 yard kickoff return a few days ago. 

Do you watch games? 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I just think cause he had more chances at returning the ball and there for more yards all together is a deceiving stat.

Now you are being a troll because nobody can be THIS ignorant. He has an average of 28.9 yards per return. The more returns he has the more impressive, and less "deceiving" the stat is.

Your best trolling so far is that "he look average", and " mean other than one play that a better player would have had a TD on."

You had me going this far, so I grade your trolling a B-, but since you trolled so much that grade is deceiving. Your trolling "look average."

[x1dal]

He is a good slot and has elite acceleration speed

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

He had an 80 yard kickoff return a few days ago. 

Do you watch games? 

Yeah he had one good return that most other players would have had a touchdown.

Thanks for trying . Peacefrog I remember your name because many times you have argued without um. ... substance.

You know I watch games..we all watch the games. I just calling out what I see

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Now you are being a troll because nobody can be THIS ignorant. He has an average of 28.9 yards per return. The more returns he has the more impressive, and less "deceiving" the stat is.

Your best trolling so far is that "he look average", and " mean other than one play that a better player would have had a TD on."

You had me going this far, so I grade your trolling a B-, but since you trolled so much that grade is deceiving. Your trolling "look average."

Top 10 comment. But I'm still pretty sure I'm right about berrios. He is not that great. And when he is let go, there will not be some great effort to sign him. 

[jamesr]

4 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

 We have seen him at a starting WR - failed with drops and still can't get open or seperation. So not a good wr. 

 

 

Evidence already presented several times in this thread show he has not had a single drop all year. So please elaborate on how he has "failed with drops"???

Someone needs to take your shovel away, seriously.   

[jamesr]

12 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Maybe I am wrong on this but he has more yard because he has more returns not that he has done great with them just volumn?? Right? So the idea he just has more yards doesn't really make me think he is good. You seen him return for us right? He look average at best. 

He has a high amount of total yardage because of the amount of kicks he has returned. That is where quantity comes in. I think he is ranked 10th in total yardage.

He has a high average yards per return because of the yardage he gains on each return. This is where quality comes in. I think he ranks 1st or 2nd on that.

So his quality (average return yards) is better than his quantity (total yards). Hence he is seen as a valuable player at the return position - he provides more yardage per return than most other players on other teams.

Same happens with all other positions - guys can get a lot of yards through a lot of touches (I can hear Savage69 yelling "COMPILER" about Curtis Martin right now ). Others get their yardage on far fewer touches - these are the guys that teams tend to value far more.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Yeah he had one good return that most other players would have had a touchdown.

Thanks for trying . Peacefrog I remember your name because many times you have argued without um. ... substance.

You know I watch games..we all watch the games. I just calling out what I see

No, someone had the angle on him and caught him. 

Also he ran 80 yards, players do slow down after that long a gain and get caught by someone who only had to run a portion of that to catch him.  Doesnt mean they suck, not even close 

Youre overthinking it to try and prove an 80 yard return was meaningless and he he sucks because it wasnt a 90 yard return.  Making it two wrong points

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Top 10 comment. But I'm still pretty sure I'm right about berrios. He is not that great. And when he is let go, there will not be some great effort to sign him. 

I posted this numbers, you arent right, youre wrong.  Totally wrong, its in black and white for you to see that its time to stop

Hes not getting cut.  Live with it already 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Top 10 comment. But I'm still pretty sure I'm right about berrios. He is not that great. And when he is let go, there will not be some great effort to sign him. 

Ok, troll. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

5 hours ago, jamesr said:

Evidence already presented several times in this thread show he has not had a single drop all year. So please elaborate on how he has "failed with drops"???

Someone needs to take your shovel away, seriously.   

We have been arguing with a troll, or my aunt. My aunt argues like this.

[Maynard13]

On 12/8/2021 at 5:37 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

I’m not advocating we extend Berrios or anything, but this is kind of a bad week to be critical of him.  He gets at least 40 % of the credit for the team scoring a TD on it’s opening drive on Sunday.  

We scored a TD? Wow cool!

[Doggin94it]

20 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think my issue is more "wanting/expecting guys like Berrios to play #1/#2 WR" as opposed to "Berrios returns kicks, and plays #5 WR".

I maintain that Berrios should not be a starting NFL WR.  He's not Wayne Chrebet or Julian Edelman.

But as a depth player, and return/specials guy, he is clearly contributing.

And as we have sadly seen in recent years, many of our #1/#2 WR's have been made of literal tissue paper, so having motivated, try-hard depth guys with durability, as Berrios seems to be, IS in fact of value.

I just don't want to see him starting, same as I felt about Danny Woodhead. 

We should be able to do better at those #1/#2 spots IMO.  Even if we mostly don't.

Oh, he's definitely not a starter. But he's a perfect No. 4 WR - excellent special teamer, can be a viable injury fill-in if need be, and works well as the second slot guy in 4 WR sets. Few NFL teams are going to have starting caliber WRs as their No. 4 or 5 guy, so if anyone has that expectation, that's on them. 

[Doggin94it]

20 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think my issue is more "wanting/expecting guys like Berrios to play #1/#2 WR" as opposed to "Berrios returns kicks, and plays #5 WR".

I maintain that Berrios should not be a starting NFL WR.  He's not Wayne Chrebet or Julian Edelman.

But as a depth player, and return/specials guy, he is clearly contributing.

And as we have sadly seen in recent years, many of our #1/#2 WR's have been made of literal tissue paper, so having motivated, try-hard depth guys with durability, as Berrios seems to be, IS in fact of value.

I just don't want to see him starting, same as I felt about Danny Woodhead. 

We should be able to do better at those #1/#2 spots IMO.  Even if we mostly don't.

Oh, he's definitely not a starter. But he's a perfect No. 4 WR - excellent special teamer, can be a viable injury fill-in if need be, and works well as the second slot guy in 4 WR sets. Few NFL teams are going to have starting caliber WRs as their No. 4 or 5 guy, so if anyone has that expectation, that's on them. 

[Peace Frog]

8 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Yeah he had one good return that most other players would have had a touchdown.

Thanks for trying . Peacefrog I remember your name because many times you have argued without um. ... substance.

You know I watch games..we all watch the games. I just calling out what I see

I gave you very recent “substance”.  I only argue when I have substance. 

You’re just making stuff up. Classic trolling. 

[#27TheDominator]

8 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Yeah he had one good return that most other players would have had a touchdown.

Thanks for trying . Peacefrog I remember your name because many times you have argued without um. ... substance.

You know I watch games..we all watch the games. I just calling out what I see

He had a 40 plus yard catch the week prior.