Bye Week Discussion: Better QB Chad Penning or Kenny O'Brien

[Sonny Werblin]

Let's compare their two winningest full seasons as the Jets' starting QB. Which of these seasons is better? 

10-6-0    313/485   64.5%    3352 yds    17 td    16 int   

11-5-0     297/488  60.9%  3888 yds  25 td  8 int

?

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

Pennington was the better QB. O'Brien had 1-2 good years - 85 and 86, but he fell apart in 86 and Ryan actually started and won the playoff game vs KC.  O'Brien was a statue and it hurt him and the Jets. He never rushed for a TD in his NFL career. People are swayed by his 85-and early 86 season success, but he had a losing record and never won a playoff game, often coming up small in the post season.  Pennington's career was derailed by injuries, but when he was healthy - in fact in every season he was healthy - he led his team to the playoffs - 02, 04, 06 and 08.  Pennington had a winning record and won some playoff games and some key regular season games.  

[BUM-KNEE]

Kenny O for me.

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Let's compare their two winningest full seasons as the Jets' starting QB. Which of these seasons is better? 

10-6-0    313/485   64.5%    3352 yds    17 td    16 int   

11-5-0     297/488  60.9%  3888 yds  25 td  8 int

?

That is the ultimate cherry pick.  

You left out Pennington's best season - 2002 - when he started only 12 games because Testaverde started the season as the QB

13 games 

8-4. 275/399 68.9 %  3120 yards 22 TDs 6 Int 7.8 YPA 104 rating

Over 16 games that would be

11-5 338/491 68.9% 3840 yds 27 TD 7 Int 

Plus Pennington ran for 2 TDs and O'Brien never ran for a TD in his career.

 

Throw in O'Brien's 62 sacks in 85 vs Pennington's 23.

 

Or throw in that O'Brien never had another season like 85. He threw 20 interceptions in 14 games in 86 and went 8-6.  

 

[Dunnie]

Pennington and it wasnt close.

Ok to be wrong

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[Randy Rasmussen]

Kenny O’ and its not even close.
Kenny threw for over 3500 yards twice in his career and was over 3000 yards in 2 others.
He threw for over 25000 yds and 128 TDS, He has a winning record head to head vs Marino. and he won the same amount of Super Bowls as Marino.
He was easily the 2nd best QB in Jets history next to Joe Namath.
Statistically he was the best Jets QB ever.
Noodle arm was a nice guy and tried hard but he was about as exciting as watching leaves fall.
Noodle arm was great in a dink and dunk offense but for my money the O’Brien years were the most exciting year’s since the late 60s


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[Lith]

1. Pre-Injury Chad
2. Kenny O
3. Post-Injury Chad

I voted for Chad.  Before the injury, I think Chad could have been special.  Even after the injury, I think he was smart enough to adapt to the diminshed arm strength and still win games consistently, even if he did win some of them for the Phins.  Both guys were at their best at the beginning of their Jet careers, leading teams to playoffs twice in first three years.  Chad gets the edge for me for winning two playoff games.

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

12 hours ago, Maxman said:

Chad or Kenny, who you got?

Kenny O for every situation... Man if he just had an Oline... 

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, pajet said:

They were both fatally flawed qbs.   OB could make all the throws, but had feet of lead and crumbled in big spots....Penny was Cerebral, knew what he needed to do, but after the injuries, couldn't make the throws he needed to make.   I'll go with OB.  Could make any throw at any time.   I remember that Miami game as a kid too.   Assumed they had lost and fortunately my dad called me in to watch the end after he had already hit Walker a couple of times.  I'll always remember that 85 team....10-1 and all the dline injuries and Ob's implosion.    FU Al McGuire.

Since that criticism goes to Pennington also, you and JN are right to give the strong edge to O'Brien.

Pennington had one great playoff performance against Indy.  After that win, his numbers in the postseason are as follows:

• 113-191 (59 %)
• 239.2 yards per game
• 6.3 YPA
• 5 TDs / 8 INTs
• 4 fumbles (2 lost)
• 15 Sacks taken
• 3 games with QB Rating under 70

And as a result several loaded Jets team failed to make it out of the divisional round.  Plus a good, innovative Miami team suffered an awful home playoff loss in the WC round solely because of Pennington's awful play.

[Jetsfan80]

Double post.

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

They both only had one good season 

  Yeah, no. 

 

3 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

@warfish which multiple good seasons did they have? Stats don’t lie right? 

Indeed they don't.

O'Brien had:

• 2 Pro Bowl seasons (1985, 1991) along with a top-5 finish in OPOY vote (1986)
• 4 seasons with 3,300+ yards (1985, 1986, 1989, 1991)
• 4 seasons with at least 2 Game-Winning Drives (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991)
• 2 seasons with at least one 4-TD game (1985 -1; 1986 - 2)
• 2 seasons with at least two 350+ yard games (1985, 1986)
• 3 seasons as NFL leader in lowest INT % (1985, 1987, 1988)

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Pennington, when healthy, was the better QB. With all the talent O’Brien had around him, he never won a post season game. O’Brien was a statue, he had No football instincts. O’Brien would throw the ball away on 4th down rather than run for it. I would take Pennington anytime over Kenny.

So that one year eh?

Availability/durability is a skill.  You can't add that qualifier and expect anyone to take an argument for Pennington seriously.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Pennington and it wasnt close.

lmao

[Flea Flicking Frank]

10 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Ken didn't go to the GD Dolphins.  

For the win........

In fairness, Pennington did not want to leave the Jets, they dumped him for Favre. Not saying that was the wrong move, Jets had to do it, but Pennington never would have left the Jets on his own. I still vote O'Brien.

[Saul Goodman]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know Maxman's answer

I had completely forgotten that I had this poster in my room as a kid. Loved Kenny O.

However, I’d take Pennington if I was choosing between the two. 

[Maxman]

12 hours ago, doitny said:

im fond of Kenny O. i was a kid back in the 80s and thats when i became a Jet fan. i will never forget that 54-45 OT win vs the Dolphins. those teams, uniforms i loved it all. 

its true what they say about being influenced as a kid. these things mean more that as a 20-30- yr old.

so im bias but for me its Kenny O. i think he had a better career too

I had a Kenny O poster on my wall in college. 

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know Maxman's answer

OMG I just posted I had a poster and then I saw this. LEGIT had this poster in my dorm room lol.

[SuicidalSince98]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

  Yeah, no. 

 

Indeed they don't.

O'Brien had:

• 2 Pro Bowl seasons (1985, 1991) along with a top-5 finish in OPOY vote (1986)
• 4 seasons with 3,300+ yards (1985, 1986, 1989, 1991)
• 4 seasons with at least 2 Game-Winning Drives (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991)
• 2 seasons with at least one 4-TD game (1985 -1; 1986 - 2)
• 2 seasons with at least two 350+ yard games (1985, 1986)
• 3 seasons as NFL leader in lowest INT % (1985, 1987, 1988)

Kenny o had 10 TDs and 11 INTs in 1991

[JetsFanatic]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So that one year eh?

Availability/durability is a skill.  You can't add that qualifier and expect anyone to take an argument for Pennington seriously.

O’Brien wasn’t very good other than 1985 and the first 11 games of 1986. Pennington was the better QB.

[Biggs]

34 minutes ago, Randy Rasmussen said:

Kenny O’ and its not even close.
Kenny threw for over 3500 yards twice in his career and was over 3000 yards in 2 others.
He threw for over 25000 yds and 128 TDS, He has a winning record head to head vs Marino. and he won the same amount of Super Bowls as Marino.
He was easily the 2nd best QB in Jets history next to Joe Namath.
Statistically he was the best Jets QB ever.
Noodle arm was a nice guy and tried hard but he was about as exciting as watching leaves fall.
Noodle arm was great in a dink and dunk offense but for my money the O’Brien years were the most exciting year’s since the late 60s


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Noodle arm had a winning record as the Jets starting QB.  Noodle arm took us to the playoffs 3 times.  Golden arm with cement legs (Indian name) had a lossing record with the Jets and took us to the playoffs 3 times.  Noodles won 2 playoff games Golden arm with Cement legs won 1 playoff game.  

Noodles al dente was better.  Noodles cooked was worse.  

[TuscanyTile2]

14 minutes ago, Maxman said:

OMG I just posted I had a poster and then I saw this. LEGIT had this poster in my dorm room lol.

I posted that pic because you had mentioned it in the past that you used to have it on your wall.

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Pennington was the better QB. O'Brien had 1-2 good years - 85 and 86, but he fell apart in 86 and Ryan actually started and won the playoff game vs KC.  O'Brien was a statue and it hurt him and the Jets. He never rushed for a TD in his NFL career. People are swayed by his 85-and early 86 season success, but he had a losing record and never won a playoff game, often coming up small in the post season.  Pennington's career was derailed by injuries, but when he was healthy - in fact in every season he was healthy - he led his team to the playoffs - 02, 04, 06 and 08.  Pennington had a winning record and won some playoff games and some key regular season games.  

Well said.

[doitny]

11 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Ken didn't go to the GD Dolphins.  

For the win........

exactly. some of these guys might not have been around in the 80s to remember just how HATED the Dolphins were. i still hate them.

f@cking Mud Bowl, damm that A.J Duhey....@#$$%^&^%$%^ AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Biggs]

1986 was the year Kenny O both looked like a great QB and shat himself to death down the stretch of that season.   We had a 9 game winning streak and were 10 and 1 going into a late November game in Miami.   45 to 3 Miami.  Followed by 4 consecutive losses.   

[EM31]

6 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Kenny was able to play complete seasons. 

Yeah but how many times did he win comeback player of the year?

[playtowinthegame]

Kenny O'Brien was the best Jets quarterback of my lifetime. A close runner up would be a journeyman, Ryan Fitzpatrick. That 2015 season was something real nice. 

[More Cowbell]

12 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Yeah but how many times did he win comeback player of the year?

He didn't  have to

[DoubleDown]

I'm going with Chad Pennington.

Even post injuries, he was never bad.  He was just severely limited from a physical standpoint.  He was always able to dink and dunk his way down the field especially against the average to bad teams.

Ken O'Brien on the other hand had multiple seasons where he was simply terrible.

An offense lead by Chad Pennington was never a joke.  The same can't be said for Ken O'Brien.

[SuicidalSince98]

4 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

I'm going with Chad Pennington.

Even post injuries, he was never bad.  He was just severely limited from a physical standpoint.  He was always able to dink and dunk his way down the field especially against the average to bad teams.

Ken O'Brien on the other hand had multiple seasons where he was simply terrible.

An offense lead by Chad Pennington was never a joke.  The same can't be said for Ken O'Brien.

Pennington at the end was a joke QB 

[DoubleDown]

3 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Pennington at the end was a joke QB 

He was 11-5 and won the AFC East in 2008.  He only played 4 more games total in the two seasons after that.

[tfine]

I was only a little kid when KennyO played. Might have been 5-6 years old. I remember watching the giants vs jets in 87 with my giants fan dad. I remember Al toon caught the game winning TD. That’s all I remember. I will have to go with Chad only because I’m not too familiar with Kenny O. All I know is we passed on Marino for him and my cousins who are dolphins fans pretty much let me know about it all my life.


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[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

That is the ultimate cherry pick.  

You left out Pennington's best season - 2002 - when he started only 12 games because Testaverde started the season as the QB

13 games 

8-4. 275/399 68.9 %  3120 yards 22 TDs 6 Int 7.8 YPA 104 rating

Over 16 games that would be

11-5 338/491 68.9% 3840 yds 27 TD 7 Int 

Plus Pennington ran for 2 TDs and O'Brien never ran for a TD in his career.

 

Throw in O'Brien's 62 sacks in 85 vs Pennington's 23.

 

Or throw in that O'Brien never had another season like 85. He threw 20 interceptions in 14 games in 86 and went 8-6.  

 

I dd not cherry pick. I said best  "their two winningest full seasons as the Jets' starting QB" You used non-full seasons and a season Pennington was the Lolphins QB. Plus, I did not even say which season I thought was better or even place the QBs name next to their stats. Frankly, they were both really good QBs with very different strengths and weaknesses. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I dd not cherry pick. I said best  "their two winningest full seasons as the Jets' starting QB" You used non-full seasons and a season Pennington was the Lolphins QB. Plus, I did not even say which season I thought was better or even place the QBs name next to their stats. Frankly, they were both really good QBs with very different strengths and weaknesses. 

You used 2006 for Pennington because he played a full season, but it was not his best season.  He was better in 2002 and 2004, even though he missed a few games in 2002 while Testaverde started and in 2004 when he hurt his shoulder vs Buffalo - the injury that was the beginning of the end for him.  He played well in 2006 and 2008, but he was no longer the same QB he was from 2002-2004.  My point was that 1985 was O'Brien's best season - by far while 2002 was Pennington's best season.  You need to compare apples to apples.  I also don't see how comparing one season for each determines which QB was better.  Pennington had the better career and had a better single season.

[SuicidalSince98]

26 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

He was 11-5 and won the AFC East in 2008.  He only played 4 more games total in the two seasons after that.

How old are you? 

[Sonny Werblin]

2 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

You used 2006 for Pennington because he played a full season, but it was not his best season.  He was better in 2002 and 2004, even though he missed a few games in 2002 while Testaverde started and in 2004 when he hurt his shoulder vs Buffalo - the injury that was the beginning of the end for him.  He played well in 2006 and 2008, but he was no longer the same QB he was from 2002-2004.  My point was that 1985 was O'Brien's best season - by far while 2002 was Pennington's best season.  You need to compare apples to apples.  I also don't see how comparing one season for each determines which QB was better.  Pennington had the better career and had a better single season.

Apples to Apples is what comparing full seasons is. Extrapolation is awarding statistic on an imaginary basis.