There is no reasonable argument to start Z.Wilson

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, OCCH23 said:

I don't know why it's a question.  That's my entire point.  I'm glad we agree, and I look forward to your support in the future if the Zack followers try to argue otherwise . . .

 

I support whoever our QB.  Especially if he’s winning.  
I supported Zach playing until he proved he couldn’t, now I fully support White getting his chance.  He’s earned it while Zach has proved he’s not ready and needs to sit until he gets it

[doitny]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

I haven't moved the goal post.  You think passing yards and TD passes a  QB stats are important to winning.  I think you have it ass backwards.  That's not how the NY Jets are being built. 

the Jets drafted Zach Wilson cause he had Mahomes like talent. a guy who is at the top of the league in yards and TDs. thats how we were being built. now that Zach cant do that and Hall has shown to be a really good RB that still doesnt change the way we were built. you dont draft a Garrett Wilson at 10 who is turning into a superstar to not throw the ball alot. its a waste of talent.

[Biggs]

12 minutes ago, doitny said:

the Jets drafted Zach Wilson cause he had Mahomes like talent. a guy who is at the top of the league in yards and TDs. thats how we were being built. now that Zach cant do that and Hall has shown to be a really good RB that still doesnt change the way we were built. you dont draft a Garrett Wilson at 10 who is turning into a superstar to not throw the ball alot. its a waste of talent.

Zach never had Mahomes like talent.  That's never been the case.  We have one No. 1 WR with the emergence of GW.   Davis is a nice 2 and Moore has yet to prove he's a number 4. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You came away from the last two games thinking that Mike White was the QB LaFleur didn’t have faith in? 

LOL exactly

It's clear who the coaches trust to put the ball in the air.

ZW also continues to be sacked more per game despite substantially fewer pass attempts.  His career sacked rate is a disgusting 9.5% despite the athleticism and escapability.

[doitny]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Zach never had Mahomes like talent.  That's never been the case.  We have one No. 1 WR with the emergence of GW.   Davis is a nice 2 and Moore has yet to prove he's a number 4. 

fine but Zach wasnt drafted at 2 to be a game manager who doesnt throw for a lot of yards or TDs. the plan was never for this team to throw for 200 yds a game. only after Zach proved to be a bust did they let Hall carry this team. 

Flacco and White and Johnson all had over 300 yd games except for the Buffalo game. this team was built to throw it alot. thats what they want to do. and thats what they try to do with everyone but Zach

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Zach never had Mahomes like talent.  That's never been the case.  We have one No. 1 WR with the emergence of GW.   Davis is a nice 2 and Moore has yet to prove he's a number 4. 

I doubt any team is winning a SB with CD as its WR2.  He tends to only be able to separate vs bad DBs.

He's often a net negative. 

He makes plays as many plays for the other team as he does for the Jets.

I mean he's capable (e.g. the 4th and 10 vs Minnesota).  But so inconsistent.

All the drops and deflections, many of which have led to INTs.  The fumble at the end of the 1st half vs BUF in '21 which basically killed off any hope of staying in the game.  Inability to stay healthy.  Penalty on opening play (big run negated) vs Minnesota where you needed to get off to a fast start in hostile environment. 

[T0mShane]

27 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL exactly

It's clear who the coaches trust to put the ball in the air.

ZW also continues to be sacked more per game despite substantially fewer pass attempts.  His career sacked rate is a disgusting 9.5% despite the athleticism and escapability.

It’s that time to throw stat that will always stop Zach from developing. It’s incomprehensible why he still can’t make a pre-snap read to save his life. 

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

It’s that time to throw stat that will always stop Zach from developing. It’s incomprehensible why he still can’t make a pre-snap read to save his life. 

We need a larger sample size i think.

[Xtina]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

5-0 in that span with white or Flacco playing against the pats. But since we had the very worst qb in the NFL we are 7-5 instead of easily being top of division at 9-3. 

Weird how Flacco has morphed into some competent QB for some here 

[JetsMetsRangers]

5 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Balls?  He’s another in a line of failures who caved in to fans at the expense of the organization. 

You do not inactivate a number 2 pick and put him on the scout team if you think he is your best bet to win.......The expense to the organization was not pulling Zack in the Patriot game which was winnable with a competent QB........If they caved into the fans so easily Zach would have been replaced awhile ago.....Scout team....lol!........

 

[Embrace the Suck]

There is no reasonable argument to start Z.Wilson

Sure there is. MW is 1-1. If he continues to not win games why would you continue to start him? If the playoffs fall out of reach you play the big investment to know for sure that you want to move on or not... ZW needed to sit from day 1. The CBA and the Jets roster made that impossible. Now he's sitting, and hopefully he's learning. Whether ZW sticks or not doesn't really matter to me outside of the investment the jets made when they drafted him.

[Jetsplayer21]

22 minutes ago, Xtina said:

Weird how Flacco has morphed into some competent QB for some here 

He is nothing great. Sadly he is better than zack Wilson. But then again, who isn’t ? 

[Saul Goodman]

Zach is barely worthy of a roster spot. Actually, he isn’t. His draft position is the only thing keeping him in the NFL. 

[Larz]

What if Saleh abandons reason for madness?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

39 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

MW is 1-1. If he continues to not win games

LOL

He’s lost 1 game

On the road to a 9-2 football team

After leading a comeback from a 3-score deficit to put them on the doorstep and in position to win only to have his WR drop a ball in the end zone

If the Jets are mathematically eliminated (or lock up playoff position before week 18), obviously Wilson would see the field again this season  

[BornJetsFan1983]

49 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL

He’s lost 1 game

On the road to a 9-2 football team

After leading a comeback from a 3-score deficit to put them on the doorstep and in position to win only to have his WR drop a ball in the end zone

If the Jets are mathematically eliminated (or lock up playoff position before week 18), obviously Wilson would see the field again this season  

Im not sure he would, even then.

[Embrace the Suck]

58 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL

He’s lost 1 game

On the road to a 9-2 football team

After leading a comeback from a 3-score deficit to put them on the doorstep and in position to win only to have his WR drop a ball in the end zone

If the Jets are mathematically eliminated (or lock up playoff position before week 18), obviously Wilson would see the field again this season  

I didn't say pull MW did I... Nor did I disparage him. The subject of the post is that there is no reasonable argument that ZW would start. I made one. You clearly agree with it regardless of the cherry picked sentence fragment you quoted. Just to clarify as you seem to have trouble keeping up I'm not advocating for ZW to start I was merely presenting a hypothetical as was called for by the subject of the thread.

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Nope.  Just like the “Zach throws uncatchable balls” moving target this is one too.  
 

5-2.  

So crazy that a 5-2 QB isn't even active on gamedays!  This coaching staff is so dumb!

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, doitny said:

fine but Zach wasnt drafted at 2 to be a game manager who doesnt throw for a lot of yards or TDs. the plan was never for this team to throw for 200 yds a game. only after Zach proved to be a bust did they let Hall carry this team. 

Flacco and White and Johnson all had over 300 yd games except for the Buffalo game. this team was built to throw it alot. thats what they want to do. and thats what they try to do with everyone but Zach

Disagree completely.   Flacco and White lost games with 300 yard passing.  The Browns game was an anomaly.   We beat Pit and Buffalo with sub 300 yard passing games were Zach played very well.  
 

zach actually got us in the end zone twice in the 4th quarter against Pitt.

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I doubt any team is winning a SB with CD as its WR2.  He tends to only be able to separate vs bad DBs.

He's often a net negative. 

He makes plays as many plays for the other team as he does for the Jets.

I mean he's capable (e.g. the 4th and 10 vs Minnesota).  But so inconsistent.

All the drops and deflections, many of which have led to INTs.  The fumble at the end of the 1st half vs BUF in '21 which basically killed off any hope of staying in the game.  Inability to stay healthy.  Penalty on opening play (big run negated) vs Minnesota where you needed to get off to a fast start in hostile environment. 

Agree about CD i was being generous.  We have 1 high quality starting WR right now in GW.   CD at least runs solid routes and does a lot of dirty work.   He also presents a big target   By far our 2nd best WR.  
 

We probably need to draft another one next year 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

There is no reasonable argument to start Z.Wilson

Sure there is. MW is 1-1. If he continues to not win games why would you continue to start him? If the playoffs fall out of reach you play the big investment to know for sure that you want to move on or not... ZW needed to sit from day 1. The CBA and the Jets roster made that impossible. Now he's sitting, and hopefully he's learning. Whether ZW sticks or not doesn't really matter to me outside of the investment the jets made when they drafted him.

Still disagree with that . New CS, new offense , lots of young kids on the roster. It made perfect sense to let him learn and get his feet wet along with the rest of the group. Starting someone like Flacco last year would have been the Ultra Jetsy thing to do to maybe eke out an extra win or two. If Zach showed more progress and flourished no one would be having this conversation today.  

[BurntDice]

39 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Disagree completely.   Flacco and White lost games with 300 yard passing.  The Browns game was an anomaly.   We beat Pit and Buffalo with sub 300 yard passing games were Zach played very well.  
 

zach actually got us in the end zone twice in the 4th quarter against Pitt.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t get the obsession with the 300 passing yards people keep praising. 
 

when you are losing like Flacco was or white was then you chuck the ball around. They get many more pass attempts. 
 

I haven’t looked, but I’d be willing to bet that Blake Bortles had tons of 250+ yard games because they were constantly losing and getting yards in the 2nd half thru the air. 
 

to me it’s more about completion % and tds. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t get the obsession with the 300 passing yards people keep praising. 
 

when you are losing like Flacco was or white was then you chuck the ball around. They get many more pass attempts. 
 

I haven’t looked, but I’d be willing to bet that Blake Bortles had tons of 250+ yard games because they were constantly losing and getting yards in the 2nd half thru the air. 

Zach Wilson has one career 300 yard game (355 in the 1st Pats game).  His career record is 8-12.  To be fair, he did go for 297 in the OT game against the Titans.

It's obvious that LaFleur is not against throwing it all damn day.  I think the issue is either they don't trust Zach to run the O, or he doesn't get enough 1st downs to get a ton of attempts. I guess he has 4 250+ games.

[BurntDice]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Zach Wilson has one career 300 yard game (355 in the 1st Pats game).  His career record is 8-12.  To be fair, he did go for 297 in the OT game against the Titans.

It's obvious that LaFleur is not against throwing it all damn day.  I think the issue is either they don't trust Zach to run the O, or he doesn't get enough 1st downs to get a ton of attempts. I guess he has 4 250+ games.

I’m not pro Zach either, he’s been very bad. But it’s the 300 passing yards that people keep bringing up that boggles my mind. When you are losing you throw it in the second half a lot more and the defense tends to play softer. 
 

When you are winning by a decent amount you try and burn the clock with runs and converting 3rd downs. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I’m not pro Zach either, he’s been very bad. But it’s the 300 passing yards that people keep bringing up that boggles my mind. When you are losing you throw it in the second half a lot more and the defense tends to play softer. 
 

When you are winning by a decent amount you try and burn the clock with runs and converting 3rd downs. 

The top four teams in passing yards per game are a combined 34-14.

[Xtina]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

He is nothing great. Sadly he is better than zack Wilson. But then again, who isn’t ? 

That is debatable. At least Zach has a winning record while Flacco is 1-2 

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I’m not pro Zach either, he’s been very bad. But it’s the 300 passing yards that people keep bringing up that boggles my mind. When you are losing you throw it in the second half a lot more and the defense tends to play softer. 
 

When you are winning by a decent amount you try and burn the clock with runs and converting 3rd downs. 

Nobody disputes that, but the team is 2-1 in games where White throws for 300+.  Doesn't that kind of discount your point?  I guess maybe some conspiracy theorist thinks that LaFleur keeps throwing with the lead to stick it to Zach.

[BurntDice]

43 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Nobody disputes that, but the team is 2-1 in games where White throws for 300+.  Doesn't that kind of discount your point?  I guess maybe some conspiracy theorist thinks that LaFleur keeps throwing with the lead to stick it to Zach.

Flacco had 900 yards in 3 games. He was 1-2. 
 

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, doitny said:

the Jets drafted Zach Wilson cause he had Mahomes like talent. a guy who is at the top of the league in yards and TDs. thats how we were being built. now that Zach cant do that and Hall has shown to be a really good RB that still doesnt change the way we were built. you dont draft a Garrett Wilson at 10 who is turning into a superstar to not throw the ball alot. its a waste of talent.

Other than the Shanahan - LaFleur offense is built on a strong running game and involves a lot of play action.  The 49rs and Packers both had strong running games and top of the league WRs.  

[Jet Nut]

46 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Flacco had 900 yards in 3 games. He was 1-2. 
 

 

And Zach lost passing for 355 yards.  
Jets are 1-4 in 300+ yard passing games.  

[VJphillyfan]

1 hour ago, Xtina said:

That is debatable. At least Zach has a winning record while Flacco is 1-2 

Geno Smith is 7-5 this year while Tom Brady is 6-6.  Is Geno > Brady?

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, VJphillyfan said:

Geno Smith is 7-5 this year while Tom Brady is 6-6.  Is Geno > Brady?

This year Geno is better than Brady.  Yes

[VJphillyfan]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This year Geno is better than Brady.  Yes

Is that why Brady won when they went head to head?

[VJphillyfan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Nobody disputes that, but the team is 2-1 in games where White throws for 300+.  Doesn't that kind of discount your point?  I guess maybe some conspiracy theorist thinks that LaFleur keeps throwing with the lead to stick it to Zach.

Zach loyalty is worse than flat earth

[Mogglez]

21 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Geno Smith is 7-5 this year while Tom Brady is 6-6.  Is Geno > Brady?

This year?  Absolutely.